TV...Bigger = Better; Regarding Wind

[Fair_Enough]

Originally Posted by Rounder44

Howdy,

Towing a 2019 Sport 22fb with a 2013 Tacoma TRD Sport. Seems to handle it just fine till it gets windy but I'm not sure moving up a grade would make a huge difference especially when cost factored.

It's pulled the several small grades I've encountered fine with minimal effort.

The past few weeks my complaint is wind! From low mileage to just being pushed around. No real problems but makes for less fun driving.

I can afford new in the $48K range.

Problem is reviews consider resolution of the BU camera as big a deal as torque it seems so difficult to find applicable reviews on models I should see. Tundra was getting hammered in reviews then those I read just complained the interior and extras weren't upgraded to the level of say F150's.....

So any advice on how and IF I should shop for a new TV?

Thanks,

Rounder44

I would try a Hensley Cub before I wasted another thought. It won't do think for economy but $48K (less the cost of the Cub (was on sale recently)) but $46K will buy a lot of petrol.
WW

[rmkrum]

I tow a 22foot International CCD with a 4x4 crewcab Tacoma TRD shortbed and a ProPride hitch. Wind and passing big rigs are no longer an issue....

[mikapen]

Setup and loading are more important than the weight of your TV.

While driving a 26,000# truck, towing a poorly balanced trailer 1/4 its weight, I was involved in a wild sway experience that threw me in the ditch after a 1/4 mile battle. Luckily I kept the shiny side up!
Spending a lot of money on a fancy hitch, or a larger TV, won't overcome a poorly loaded rig.

Our little TV is a lot more stable in 60 mph front quartering winds, with oncoming passing semis, than a few of those 3/4 T trucks that I saw on their side in Kansas winds.
Pay attention to your loading!!! Please!

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by out of sight

Agreed. I believe that the best tow vehicle weight distribution is 50/50. Many pickup trucks have too much engine weight on the front wheels and not enough on the rear wheels, especially when there is a weight distribution hitch involved. This will reduce rear wheel traction making it more prone to oversteer and less able to control a swaying trailer.

Agree on 50/50 target - that’s why pickups don’t have a lot of weight on the rear axle - it’s so you can load it up with hitch weight and get towards 50/50 when loaded.

My truck is 4,500 lbs front axle, 3,500 lbs rear, unloaded (heavy diesel up front).

When I am hitched and ready for camping, with passengers, gear in the bed, fuel, etc...I’m at 4,500 lbs front (no change, WD returns 100% to the front end) and 5,500 rear (2,000 lbs of payload all told). Rides well and I don’t mind having just a bit of bias to the rear as I am RWD most of the time - steering feel is good as I still have 4,500lbs on the front axle.

PS - just returned a bmw on lease... no truck, even with 50/50 weight distribution, drives like a bmw

[pteck]

Everyone's arguing in circles here. There's no definitive need for particular hitch or theoretical 50/50. Over considering any particular variable may just lead to blindness of other important factors. Such things as 100% FALR.

Ultimately, it's about overall rig stability. Within the performance envelop you personally drive the vehicle at. Though accident avoidance might be something one wants to consider as within their performance envelop. Speed is a huge thing here. Some drive their vehicle fast and hard. Others may live in states (or countries EU) with much lower trailering speed limits or just choose to enjoy the drive at a more leisurely pace.

So while out of sight chooses to drive without WD/Anti-sway as that suits his needs for stability and performance, it might not work for the rest of us as we may have other configurations or performance requirements that demand WD/Anti-sway.

Again, many factors lead to overall stability (within speed and driver abilities) which is what's important here. Some of which we can control, some of which we choose to compromise on, and others that are what they are.

the system
becomes unstable beyond a certain speed. This speed
decreases, thus rendering the system less stable, as: 1)
the mass of the trailer (relative to the vehicle’s mass)
increases, 2) the center of gravity of the trailer moves
rearward, 3) the moment of inertia of the trailer increases,
4) cornering stiffness of trailer tires decreases, 5)
cornering stiffness of the vehicle’s rear tires decreases 6)
the distance from the vehicle rear axle to the hitch point
increases, 7) vehicle wheelbase decreases. Even for a
specific vehicle-trailer combination, most of these
parameters can be greatly altered by changing parameters
that are in control of the user, such as weight distribution
or tire type and tire pressure.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by Rounder44

Tundra was getting hammered in reviews then those I read just complained the interior and extras weren't upgraded to the level of say F150's.....

Hammered? I have a 2015 Tundra and I've never experienced wind sway ever. Even semis passing doesn't upset it more than an inch...maybe.
I think that sway has a lot to do with your hitch.

What's wrong with the interior?

[aftermath]

Originally Posted by Rounder44

.......


I test drove 2019 Tundras and Tacoma's today. I see the complaints about the Tundra...bench seats, column shifter....Nice and peppy though but dismal mileage at 13-17mpg

The Tacoma has same torque but more HP 278 v 236 and it felt nice! They wouldn't let me hook up the AS and drive to the mountains though

Both were same price! I was ready to get one or another before a super low ball trade in offer came in. I had to physically point and circle where the guy added low quality components or neglected upgrades in the offer. Came in $6000 below mid KBB! Then song and dance BS ensued.. "we give less trade in because we don't pad the new truck price and detail and certify" I then pointed at "auction price" right next to number and they still couldn't come correct and started to denigrate the competition...

I feel like a new tight anything may make a big difference... plus peace of mind of new TV...

Thanks!

R44

Rounder, it sounds to me that you want a new truck. If I were going to go full time I think I would want more weight, more space and more power too.


I also think you are wise to look into the Ford line. They have lots of options and you can set up a truck just like you want it. All that said, I found this post interesting. It shows that your mind is made up and you are going away from Toyota which is fine and , in your case, probably the thing to do.


I purchased my second Tundra not long ago. It is a 2017 and it does not have a bench seat nor a column shifter. I got an SR5 with the TRD option. I don't want a sky light, a larger back seat or lots of those other options that raise the cost and lower the carrying capacity. Toyota has not made any big changes since they came out with the Tundra in 2007 and I just read that the "new" Tundra won't be out until something like 2021. Why change the power train if it is still giving great performance and continues to be one of the most dependable trucks out there? The mileage is not "dismal". When towing it is at or just slightly below most of the other trucks out there. The Ford ecoboost is a great engine for mileage but when you tow with it, it falls in with the rest. Being a daily driver is a different thing. I think Ford shines here.



I only had something like 80K on my old Tundra and it was running just fine. They do make improvements and that is why I changed. We now have a much better backup camera, a great guidance system and all the bluetooth gizmos I will ever need. The interior has not changed much but the seats are more comfortable. I can talk to it and it will talk back. I suppose it isn't as "cool" as some others out there but that was not high on my list of quality items I was looking for. We have dual temperature controls but no heated seats. I could get those but they would cost and I would have to move up to a "cooler" trim level. I would then have a power back window, a window in the roof, huge doors in the back and it would all cost me more and give me less payload. I am happy with what I have and I am sure that you will be too with what you end up with. Try to get power retractable towing mirrors. Those would be nice. I tried to find a nice low mileage Tundra and they just aren't out there. Why? People just don't get rid of them very quickly.

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Hammered? I have a 2015 Tundra and I've never experienced wind sway ever. Even semis passing doesn't upset it more than an inch...maybe.

I think that sway has a lot to do with your hitch.



What's wrong with the interior?

Mollysdad- you are correct

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by SteveNdebbie

Mollysdad- you are correctAttachment 336793Attachment 336794Attachment 336795

The obvious omission is the roll the WDH including anti-sway bars play in the situation...and I say omission since Hensley is pushing their product, right. Nothing wrong with a Hensley system, but there are "other" great hitch systems also; I like the BO Sway Pro for example...No matter which one you use, Transferring the weight back to the front of the TV for better control and providing the antisway capabilities which help control the trailer are also key to the whole equation; it's not just a "ball" with a hitch pivoting as they try to push in their video...IMHO...this has been discussed at "nauseum" here. on the Forum...many times...are we getting it yet? For safer towing, us a reputable WDH...

[tjdonahoe]

My17 ram and 13 31’ classic..weights are..4800, 4900.... and 7800 on the trailer axles...and it handles like a dream....

[rmkrum]

IMHO, Hensley Manufacturing has failed to innovate, and I was not happy with their marketing techniques when I was asking technical questions during my search for a good Pivot Point Projection hitch system.

I ended up going with a ProPride system and am very satisfied with the answers to my MANY questions, the recently updated design (by Jim Hensley, the dude that invented it), and the way it installs without having to drill holes.

After-sale support from Sean Woodruff at ProPride has also far exceeded my expectations as well.

My opinion, my setup. YMMV, as usual.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Agree on 50/50 target - that’s why pickups don’t have a lot of weight on the rear axle - it’s so you can load it up with hitch weight and get towards 50/50 when loaded.

My truck is 4,500 lbs front axle, 3,500 lbs rear, unloaded (hebavy diesel up front).

When I am hitched and ready for camping, with passengers, gear in the bed, fuel, etc...I’m at 4,500 lbs front (no change, WD returns 100% to the front end) and 5,500 rear (2,000 lbs of payload all told). Rides well and I don’t mind having just a bit of bias to the rear as I am RWD most of the time - steering feel is good as I still have 4,500lbs on the front axle.

PS - just returned a bmw on lease... no truck, even with 50/50 weight distribution, drives like a bmw

My ram loaded is 4800 front...4900 rear...as is 7800...6.7 in a 17 ram 13 31’ classic.....

[SteveNdebbie]

Our MDX weighs 4550 lb. With just the two of us and minimal weight added to the inside, let’s say 5000 lbs. Wheelbase is 108. We towed a 2006 25’ FB Safari with the Hensley Arrow. We do have a reinforced receiving hitch and the hitch bar goes far up into the receptacle of our receiving hitch. Trailer weight with propane, water, etc. 6500-7000? Had 30-35 mph winds in South Dakota and also Northern California on 101 coming from the side and no sway. No sway or instability or from trucks passing by on two lane roads or double lane highways. Others were swaying. IDK

[jcl]

I liked the line in the post above from SteveNdebbie (from Hensley) that read

Saying that a big truck will prevent trailer sway is like saying that a bigger tree will prevent my tire swing from swinging in the breeze

[mikapen]

That Hensley advertising spiel makes me think that they don't actually know what sway really is. I wonder what they think they are fixing?
BTW yes, loading makes a difference. Probably the biggest difference, ahead of "which TV" and "which hitch."

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

IMHO, Hensley Manufacturing has failed to innovate, and I was not happy with their marketing techniques when I was asking technical questions during my search for a good Pivot Point Projection hitch system.

I ended up going with a ProPride system and am very satisfied with the answers to my MANY questions, the recently updated design (by Jim Hensley, the dude that invented it), and the way it installs without having to drill holes.

After-sale support from Sean Woodruff at ProPride has also far exceeded my expectations as well.

My opinion, my setup. YMMV, as usual.

Sway prevention and sway control is not a complicated issue.
One doesn't need a hitch that comes with 23 pages of instruction to accomplish that.
Weight Distribution is by far the most important aspect of a hitch in regards to sway prevention.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Sway prevention and sway control is not a complicated issue.

I wouldn't be so bold to state it that way.

Many of us here are still learning.

There's more to it than meets the eye. Many learn out of negative experience. Which is not a great way to learn given what's on the line.

Continuous learning is the only attitude to have in regards to this. Anything else to minimize sway as a topic, like I've got a big HD truck, results in complacency and bigger accidents.

[rmkrum]

Frank,

You are absolutely entitled to an opinion. I flat out don’t agree.

The mechanical design of a pivot point projection hitch totally prevents any sway by the way the linkage works. It’s not magic, it’s physics and engineering done right.

Weight distribution is also important, because it’s primary effect is adjusting the tow vehicle front axle load on the entire rig. On my setup, weight distribution adjustments directly control my tow vehicle front axle load restoration and have a huge effect on handling.

This is not opinion, it’s experimentally verified fact based on a lot of careful experimenting, measuring, and driving under all conditions of wind and weather.

Had a WD only system before. It was useless at sway prevention no matter how I adjusted it. That’s why I spent the money for a ProPride system.

For our situation, it’s best overall solution for the size of the tow vehicle (2012 4x4 Toyota Tacoma crew cab short bed) and a 2007 22’ International CCD Airstream. Outside that setup, I’m not claiming anything else.

For this example, it works perfectly. This is my carefully engineered solution to towing in a safe and comfortable manner, with emphasis on safety for my family and pets. I also drive conservatively on the road. The two vehicles are also properly loaded under their ratings, and i use good tires. A lot of the accidents with RVs are caused, IMHO, by both bad setups and inattentive driving.

And yes, the old hitch system was a very negative experience one day, going downhill in heavy traffic.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by pteck

I wouldn't be so bold to state it that way.

Many of us here are still learning.

There's more to it than meets the eye. Many learn out of negative experience. Which is not a great way to learn given what's on the line.

Continuous learning is the only attitude to have in regards to this. Anything else to minimize sway as a topic, like I've got a big HD truck, results in complacency and bigger accidents.

Yeah, you need both a big HD truck AND a pivot point projection hitch lol. I’ll skip the negative experience.

[rmkrum]

So will I. It was no fun getting the rig slowed down so the Airstream would quit trying to pass me on the downhill run...ProPride fixed the ‘white knuckle problem’ in one stroke.

But, as they say in the South, “Run what you brung!” I’m quite happy with the handling and braking with my Tacoma and current trailer l, and some day, when I’m rolling I’m money (fat chance) I’ll buy a Tundra for the extra horsepower.