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01-16-2025, 11:47 AM
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#1
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19’ Bambi Flying Cloud
2017 19' Flying Cloud
Airstream Coach - Other
Husqvarnia
, Husqvarnia
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 783
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TV: 3/4-Ton Wish-List Discussion
Our next TV will likely be a 3/4-ton crew cab pick-up. We like the extra grunt and payload over the mid-size- and 1/2-ton pick-ups. But there are some things I don’t like about the 3/4-tons, too.
My primary gripe is that the engines are overkill. Manufacturers are using essentially the same engines in the 3/4-tons as the full 1-ton and even larger trucks. But in a 3/4 application, we generally don’t need 1000 ft/lbs of torque. A 3.5-4.5L turbodiesel offering 300+HP/600+ft/lbs torque would be plenty. Those requiring more could (and usually do, anyway) opt for the 1-ton.
There would be many advantages of using a smaller turbodiesel in the 3/4-ton trucks, or at very least offering one as an option. First, a smaller engine should be less expensive than the monster engines currently being used. These trucks are expensive enough - - a lower cost option would be welcome.
The second benefit of a smaller engine would be improved fuel efficiency. This would reduce fuel costs and extend range. Equally welcome.
And the third advantage would be the lighter weight of the engine, which would increase the payload capacity of the truck. The monster diesels currently used are very heavy powerplants, and the relatively low payload capacities of current 3/4 ton diesels reflect this. Insufficient payload often drives buyers to the stiffer 1-tons. Perhaps in combination with a smaller fuel tank (due to better mpg), carrying capacity could be improved by a couple hundred pounds.
More to come, but feel free to comment.
__________________
2017 Bambi 19 Flying Cloud
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01-16-2025, 12:39 PM
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#2
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2 Rivet Member 
2018 28' Flying Cloud
Beachwood
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 25
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I bought a used 28RB a bit over a year ago. Bought an F250 Lariat, CCSB with the 7.3 gas engine. It's more than plenty. Didn't want the initial expense of the diesel, and would never cover enough miles to make it worth it. Also, while I have a reliable long term relationship with my mechanic for cars (and gas engined pickups), I didn't want to deal with the combination of more expensive maintenance AND not having a "guy" I can trust.
I mean it when I say more than plenty. Had it been offered when I ordered the truck, I would've even gone with the smaller gas engine (baby godzilla?) that is now available. In olden days, we covered 41 states with 3 kids and a big dog in a 2001 E350 and 28' SOB trailer. The difference in towing capability, features and overall comfort driving is insane.
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01-16-2025, 02:02 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry
, Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeCamper
Our next TV will likely be a 3/4-ton crew cab pick-up. We like the extra grunt and payload over the mid-size- and 1/2-ton pick-ups. But there are some things I don’t like about the 3/4-tons, too.
My primary gripe is that the engines are overkill. Manufacturers are using essentially the same engines in the 3/4-tons as the full 1-ton and even larger trucks. But in a 3/4 application, we generally don’t need 1000 ft/lbs of torque. A 3.5-4.5L turbodiesel offering 300+HP/600+ft/lbs torque would be plenty. Those requiring more could (and usually do, anyway) opt for the 1-ton.
There would be many advantages of using a smaller turbodiesel in the 3/4-ton trucks, or at very least offering one as an option. First, a smaller engine should be less expensive than the monster engines currently being used. These trucks are expensive enough - - a lower cost option would be welcome.
The second benefit of a smaller engine would be improved fuel efficiency. This would reduce fuel costs and extend range. Equally welcome.
And the third advantage would be the lighter weight of the engine, which would increase the payload capacity of the truck. The monster diesels currently used are very heavy powerplants, and the relatively low payload capacities of current 3/4 ton diesels reflect this. Insufficient payload often drives buyers to the stiffer 1-tons. Perhaps in combination with a smaller fuel tank (due to better mpg), carrying capacity could be improved by a couple hundred pounds.
More to come, but feel free to comment.
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BikeCamper, very well written post and spot-on observations. I, “thought” I needed a 3/4 ton diesel but after talking to the dealer’s commercial truck salesperson he convinced me the 6.4 Hemi gas truck is more than enough truck for anything under 10,000 lbs and he was right.
The benefits are more payload and less maintenance. The HD truck manufacturers are in a HP and torque war, all trying to outdo each other. If you are towing a big 36K lbs 5th wheel, they’re exactly what you need.
Sure, they’ll tow an Airstream like there’s nothing behind it but back to your point; do you need 1000+ lb ft of torque to do it? The answer is no. Take a look at tow vehicles before these monsters existed. People towed Airstreams with V8 passenger cars besides pickup trucks. None had diesel engines back then.
We’ve towed our 27’ Globetrotter up and down Monarch Pass in Colorado with ease. Do yourself a favor and drive one of he Big 3’s 3/4 ton gas trucks and see what you think. The $10K you’ll save can go towards adding options like Towing and Safety Technology and put the rest in your pocket.
__________________
2019 27’ Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
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01-16-2025, 02:58 PM
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#4
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19’ Bambi Flying Cloud
2017 19' Flying Cloud
Airstream Coach - Other
Husqvarnia
, Husqvarnia
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 783
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All fair points. But I find the big gas engines to be overkill, too, and really bad on fuel economy.
I admit I have a strong preference for diesel power in a vehicle being purchased primarily for towing. So I am biased in that regard. But I also want to point out that the supposed extra cost of going diesel isn’t necessarily true. A smaller diesel option could end up being less expensive to purchase and operate than the big gas engines.
We know this to be the case with GM, where in their 1/2 ton trucks (Silverado/Sierra) they offer a powerful and fuel efficient 3.0L I6 Duramax turbodiesel at a lower price than the big 6.2L V8 gas option. Chevy could offer this engine as an option in their 3/4-ton and bring costs down while still offering plenty of capability. No, not “class leading” - - except in fuel economy - - but still with decent grunt (300+HP/500+ft/lbs).
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2017 Bambi 19 Flying Cloud
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01-16-2025, 02:59 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,811
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I think it is very unlikely that the manufacturers will develop smaller diesels for 3/4-1 ton trucks. They just don't believe there is a market for them, and ever increasing emissions regulations mean that they would be very expensive to develop, with an uncertain product life. That high cost can only be amortized over large volumes of vehicles, which means that the engine would have to cover the 1/2 ton products as well, and we have seen how poorly that has worked out for manufacturers.
Ford is only offering their 3.2 diesel in the Transit. They dropped their 3.0 litre diesel in the F150 in 2021. They were hoping to get 5% of the product share with the F150 diesel, but it doesn't look like that happened.
RAM doesn't do their own diesel engines, and the Cummins 5.0 was less efficient than the larger diesel so RAM never picked it up. It ended up in the Nissan, and that didn't work out.
GM carries on with the 3.0 diesel in the 1500, and the hp/torque are around your target, 300 and 460+, but it is a lighter duty engine and not well matched to a heavier truck IMO. Compare it to the 3.2 diesel in the Transit, more of a commercial application, where the 3.2 is tuned to under 200 hp.
I think if you want a smaller diesel you should be looking at 1/2 ton trucks and not 3/4 ton models. If you want more payload then the choice is to special order and configure with that in mind, likely foregoing some of the luxury editions.
For improved efficiency in 3/4 ton trucks I believe the near future will be hybrid, not smaller or lower hp diesels. The hybrid will likely be based on a gasoline engine, not a diesel. Manufacturers will be able to spread the costs of product development across a greater number of platforms as they learn more about making hybrid powertrains.
From a towing perspective, the addition of an electric motor could provide significant benefits in torque at low rpm, and potentially also regenerative braking on descents.
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01-16-2025, 03:19 PM
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#6
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19’ Bambi Flying Cloud
2017 19' Flying Cloud
Airstream Coach - Other
Husqvarnia
, Husqvarnia
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 783
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Another change to the 3/4 line-up I’d like to see is reducing its height. Recent generations have gotten too tall/large. The overall height and the super tall front grill are not positive features, imo.
__________________
2017 Bambi 19 Flying Cloud
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01-16-2025, 03:48 PM
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#7
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2 Rivet Member 
Currently Looking...
Carefree
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2024
Posts: 81
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BC
The answer is simple. Buy a Suburban, Tahoe or Yukon with the GM 3L diesel.
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01-16-2025, 04:03 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry
, Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,588
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Height of today’s trucks vs previous generations
Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeCamper
Another change to the 3/4 line-up I’d like to see is reducing its height. Recent generations have gotten too tall/large. The overall height and the super tall front grill are not positive features, imo.
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I happen to have an example of what you’re talking about with the height of new HD trucks vs. older ones.
My sister pulls a gooseneck horse trailer with a 1 Ton Dually Chevy. I happened to park next to it and took this photo. The difference is the same at the tailgate. I had to add a retractable step to get onto the tailgate of ours.
One more comment on your previous post about fuel efficiency of today’s HD gas trucks. The physics of overcoming the size and weight do come into effect.
We had 2019 RAM 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi before trading for the 2500 and found I’m getting the same or even better fuel economy with the 6.4 Hemi nd the truck weighs over 1000 lbs more than the 1500. The 2500 has a purpose-built gas engine, same used in their 5500 models (those have de-rated HP).
Anyway, I agree with your points about the HD trucks. Too bad mfg don’t offer a Heavy Half like Chevy did years ago or the Nissan XD, like a 5/8 ton.
__________________
2019 27’ Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
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01-16-2025, 04:15 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmc306
Too bad mfg don’t offer a Heavy Half like Chevy did years ago or the Nissan XD, like a 5/8 ton.
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I would say that what we currently refer to as half tons are all heavy half ton models. The half ton models were called F100/C10/K10/D100. The heavy half came out due to emissions regulations categories, then they were very quickly renamed as 150/1500 models and the 100/10 models were dropped.
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01-16-2025, 05:03 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry
, Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl
I would say that what we currently refer to as half tons are all heavy half ton models. The half ton models were called F100/C10/K10/D100. The heavy half came out due to emissions regulations categories, then they were very quickly renamed as 150/1500 models and the 100/10 models were dropped.
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Good point! I forgot about the emissions regulations and how they affected those models.
__________________
2019 27’ Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
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01-16-2025, 05:14 PM
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#11
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19’ Bambi Flying Cloud
2017 19' Flying Cloud
Airstream Coach - Other
Husqvarnia
, Husqvarnia
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunchaserV
BC
The answer is simple. Buy a Suburban, Tahoe or Yukon with the GM 3L diesel.
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I like all of those vehicles, but I prefer a pick-up for towing/travelling. I would seriously consider the Silverado/Sierra with that same engine (it’s actually a bit more powerful and fuel efficient version that is used in the Silverado/Sierra.) I’d like to have 2200+ lbs of payload capacity, though.
__________________
2017 Bambi 19 Flying Cloud
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01-16-2025, 05:22 PM
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#12
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19’ Bambi Flying Cloud
2017 19' Flying Cloud
Airstream Coach - Other
Husqvarnia
, Husqvarnia
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmc306
I happen to have an example of what you’re talking about with the height of new HD trucks vs. older ones.
My sister pulls a gooseneck horse trailer with a 1 Ton Dually Chevy. I happened to park next to it and took this photo. The difference is the same at the tailgate. I had to add a retractable step to get onto the tailgate of ours.
One more comment on your previous post about fuel efficiency of today’s HD gas trucks. The physics of overcoming the size and weight do come into effect.
We had 2019 RAM 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi before trading for the 2500 and found I’m getting the same or even better fuel economy with the 6.4 Hemi nd the truck weighs over 1000 lbs more than the 1500. The 2500 has a purpose-built gas engine, same used in their 5500 models (those have de-rated HP).
Anyway, I agree with your points about the HD trucks. Too bad mfg don’t offer a Heavy Half like Chevy did years ago or the Nissan XD, like a 5/8 ton.
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That photo shows exactly what I’m talking about! They have become too tall, imo. Getting into the bed can be tricky without some step aids.
The RAM 2500 is probably at the top of our list. I like the softer rear suspension, the available RAM boxes, and the optional mega-cab. I even like that 6.7L Cummins, even if I would prefer a smaller more fuel efficient version.
But the payload rating with the turbodiesel suffers. And the height is inconvenient. Hiwever, if they’d make the 3-way tailgate available as an option, it would greatly facilitate access into the tall bed.
__________________
2017 Bambi 19 Flying Cloud
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01-16-2025, 05:26 PM
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#13
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"Cloudsplitter"

2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,129
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Yeah...our TV is getting a bit ragitty.
Time for something new.
Bob
🇺🇸
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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01-16-2025, 07:17 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master 
2015 20' Flying Cloud
Kingsport
, Tennessee
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,350
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Are you sticking with/ the 19', or planning to upgrade to a dual-axle Airstream in the future?
We have a 20FB, tow w/ a 1500 Sierra, they pair very well. And, ours wasn't picked to max out the tow capacity/ payload. You could spec out a 1500 that can tow quite a bit, has a respectable payload, and not go up to a 2500, if you're sticking w/ the single-axle camper.
With that said, if we were going to swap up to a 25FB or such, a dual-axle, I'd contemplate switching from ours to a 2500. But if I did, I'd skip going diesel, and go gas: the diesel is heavier, eats into payload, by going w/ the gas, you have more payload available.
__________________
-Leslie
WBCCI #1051
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01-16-2025, 08:18 PM
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#15
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2 Rivet Member 
Currently Looking...
Carefree
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2024
Posts: 81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeCamper
That photo shows exactly what I’m talking about! They have become too tall, imo. Getting into the bed can be tricky without some step aids.
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The F series Fords have a very good step built into the tailgate as well as fixed side steps. No problem for me and I'm 82. Good for my equal age wife too! Man up BC
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01-17-2025, 10:25 AM
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#16
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19’ Bambi Flying Cloud
2017 19' Flying Cloud
Airstream Coach - Other
Husqvarnia
, Husqvarnia
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LNBright
Are you sticking with/ the 19', or planning to upgrade to a dual-axle Airstream in the future?
We have a 20FB, tow w/ a 1500 Sierra, they pair very well. And, ours wasn't picked to max out the tow capacity/ payload. You could spec out a 1500 that can tow quite a bit, has a respectable payload, and not go up to a 2500, if you're sticking w/ the single-axle camper.
With that said, if we were going to swap up to a 25FB or such, a dual-axle, I'd contemplate switching from ours to a 2500. But if I did, I'd skip going diesel, and go gas: the diesel is heavier, eats into payload, by going w/ the gas, you have more payload available.
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No plans to upsize the trailer. But a larger TV would be more comfortable and allow us to haul some additional gear and toys on longer trips (eg, motorcycles in addition to bicycles.) We already have a 1500 lbs payload - - we’re looking to improve that by at least 50% (more would be better), which is hard to do with a 1/2-ton nowadays. Too bad GM doesn’t offer a payload package for their Silverado/Sienna 1500 Duramax…
__________________
2017 Bambi 19 Flying Cloud
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01-17-2025, 10:34 AM
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#17
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Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 16,726
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Hi
Starting with the original "I want a smaller engine":
If you take a look at Ford specifically, there is no obvious / major difference between an F250 and an F350 other than in the suspension. As far as the drive train and pretty much all the bits and pieces, they are the same truck. Yes, you *can* get more options on the F350, however it starts life as an F250.
Why?
Instead of designing two trucks from the ground up, they design one truck. That cuts their development time down. It also takes out a good chunk of design costs. It also has a massive impact on inventory and tooling costs. Hard to believe that one of these trucks could actually be more expensive  .
Drive train wise, they put in what sells. If the "small engine" does not get folks to order trucks, it does not show up next year. Same basic issue as above. There is a significant cost impact to having another engine on the list.
It's been decades since Ford did the "merge" of the 250 and 350. How many decades depends a bit on how picky you are in the comparison.
Weight wise the delta between a smaller diesel and the current "low end" gas engine would be a bit of a toss up. I would not be surprised to find that the diesel version would weigh in a bit higher. That sort of negates the payload benefit. ( = you can get it with the small gas engine). Would the diesel be cheaper? Again, I doubt it.
Still, fun to speculate.
Bob
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01-17-2025, 10:58 AM
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#18
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2 Rivet Member 
1968 24' Tradewind
Dallas
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 45
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The price delta from 250 to 350 is pretty minor. I don’t need an HD truck, but if I did I would skip the 250.
You can get almost double the payload for a minimal up charge and no difference in day to day driving feel. Where is the negative?
If I were in your shoes I would be looking at the 3.0 diesel in the half ton GM products and the one tons in every one else’s lineup. Diesel or gas in the one tons is a well worn debate that you likely are familiar with. Either will work well for you.
Side note: Part of the reason the HD trucks don’t compete on fuel mileage is that they don’t have to publish those numbers. Hard to say you are the most efficient when there is no official data to back up that advertising claim. If they had to report the numbers we may see efficiency given the same attention as peak torque.
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01-17-2025, 11:00 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master 
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob
Hi
Starting with the original "I want a smaller engine":
If you take a look at Ford specifically, there is no obvious / major difference between an F250 and an F350 other than in the suspension. As far as the drive train and pretty much all the bits and pieces, they are the same truck. Yes, you *can* get more options on the F350, however it starts life as an F250.
Why?
Instead of designing two trucks from the ground up, they design one truck. That cuts their development time down. It also takes out a good chunk of design costs. It also has a massive impact on inventory and tooling costs. Hard to believe that one of these trucks could actually be more expensive  .
Drive train wise, they put in what sells. If the "small engine" does not get folks to order trucks, it does not show up next year. Same basic issue as above. There is a significant cost impact to having another engine on the list.
It's been decades since Ford did the "merge" of the 250 and 350. How many decades depends a bit on how picky you are in the comparison.
Weight wise the delta between a smaller diesel and the current "low end" gas engine would be a bit of a toss up. I would not be surprised to find that the diesel version would weigh in a bit higher. That sort of negates the payload benefit. ( = you can get it with the small gas engine). Would the diesel be cheaper? Again, I doubt it.
Still, fun to speculate.
Bob
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I have a 2017 F-250 Powerstroke Diesel with 930 lbs. tourq. Love everything about it. Sit up high much safer in navigating in heavy traffic.
Love the power and sound of a diesel and with the long wheelbase it keeps the trailer anchored.
Do I need it ? No not anymore than I need a 30' Airstream Classic.
I am thinking about trading up to a 1Ton beast
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01-17-2025, 12:11 PM
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#20
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19’ Bambi Flying Cloud
2017 19' Flying Cloud
Airstream Coach - Other
Husqvarnia
, Husqvarnia
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithT
The price delta from 250 to 350 is pretty minor. I don’t need an HD truck, but if I did I would skip the 250.
You can get almost double the payload for a minimal up charge and no difference in day to day driving feel. Where is the negative?
If I were in your shoes I would be looking at the 3.0 diesel in the half ton GM products and the one tons in every one else’s lineup. Diesel or gas in the one tons is a well worn debate that you likely are familiar with. Either will work well for you.
Side note: Part of the reason the HD trucks don’t compete on fuel mileage is that they don’t have to publish those numbers. Hard to say you are the most efficient when there is no official data to back up that advertising claim. If they had to report the numbers we may see efficiency given the same attention as peak torque.
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With respect to any negative by bumping up to full 1-ton, with GM and Ford I can’t think of any unless your state/province dings you for registering a heavier GVWR.
But in the RAM line-up there is an important difference between the 3/4- and 1-ton versions. The 3/4-ton trucks have a softer and more compliant coil spring rear suspension similar to the 1/2-tons. The1-tons use the old-school stiffer leaf springs that are typical on most HD trucks.
[Previously in the RAM line-up there was an option for an HO Cummins and different transmission in the 3500. But as of 2025, the 2500 and 3500 RAMS will share identical higher output Cummins engines and the new ZF 8-speed auto. So the only major distinction is the suspension and GVWR/payload ratings.)
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2017 Bambi 19 Flying Cloud
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