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Old 01-06-2019, 04:12 AM   #21
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I think again some are confusing payload with tow rating. Get jt straight.
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Old 01-06-2019, 06:38 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by xrvr View Post
I think again some are confusing payload with tow rating. Get jt straight.
That's right. Full stop.

We drive a 2016 Tundra ext. cab towing a 25'FC, equalizer hitch.
I'm aware of two relevant things which may help bolster your search. First, the truck as delivered does the deed for us handily in all situations. We have towed for one full season. It hauls @ss, stops and handles like a dream. If I could sum up the experience using this vehicle thus far it might be "Toyota under promises and over delivers".
The numbers are the numbers are the numbers. Listen to folks who drive these vehicles and use them for similar goals. If there were buyers remorse you'd hear all about it in spades, the interweb is brutal that way
Real talk >> I'm very keen to never exceed ~ 500 lbs of "stuff" loaded into the bed because of the rating numbers.

When we were in the market for a truck I never envisioned needing to carry more than a couple bicycles, a large tool box, small genny and a jug or two of liquids (that's around 500 lbs.).

The bump in load carrying capacity from a Tundra to something else was pretty clear, get a HD XXX.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:09 AM   #23
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This subject comes up with every brand. The people discussing it fall into two broad categories, and will never agree.
1. The engineers know what they are doing and the sky will fall if you go over.
2. Those numbers are meaningless, do what you want.
(Of course, I am exaggerating those positions a bit.) My personal take, the engineers know what they are doing, but they build in a cushion for people #2 to keep them out of trouble. How much cushion? Same two categories of people.

The result of this is as long as you are reasonable (don't hook a semi trailer to a Smart Car for Two) you are fine. If you go over what it will take, the price you pay is reduced lifespan of the equipment. If you have a catastrophic failure, it probably is from an unseen flaw that existed. For my own peace of mind, I went with SOB of truck to get a higher number on that door sticker. My door sticker has a number about 50% larger than what you are quoting, and that makes me feel good, but it is not how I feel that is important here. It is how you feel.

I agree with the posts that say if it was really a problem, you would be reading about it on the forums, and you are not.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:05 AM   #24
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Pimms, many good points have been brought up and as an owner of a 2008 Tundra and now a 2017 Tundra with over 46,000 miles towing my 25FB I want to add my view.


First of all, the payload number are not the best. Toyota does not offer up any options to increase these. Adding a factory sway bar or upgrading to some really heavy LT tires will help the ride but not achieve an increase in PL. I still believe that you really need to think about how you want to "camp". Do you want to bring lots of wood, a motorcycle, two generators, 10 gallons of gas, 20 gallons of water and a tool box that an auto mechanic would be proud of? Get a bigger truck.


I have weighed my 25 and it goes down the road between 6 and 6.5 K. The tongue is heavy, like right at 1000 pounds. My hitch distributes this but it is still a lot of weight on the truck. It is just my wife and I and we are not huge humans. I always bring my generator, some chairs and an extra gallon of gas. I will often bring some firewood, about a single row and when going out in the woods a couple 5 gallon water totes. I might be "over" loaded but you can't tell it by looking or by driving.


I once put almost 3K of wet firewood in the back. Got out on the road and it was sitting down nicely but there was plenty of space between the rubber stops above the axle. It drove OK, the steering was responsive but I could tell it was loaded. Stopped on the way home at a scale and was amazed at the number. The point being, a Tundra is very well built and going over the payload number a little bit is not going to amount to trouble.


The brakes are as large and strong as you will find on the market. I did get the TRD package because of the better shocks and wheels. It DOES NOT offer an option of larger brakes. I ordered towing mirrors on my 2008 but had to have the dealer install them on my 2017. I wish I had power retractable mirrors because I do have to manually bring one in every time I enter my garage. After 9 years of doing this on my 2008, I never had a problem.


I also agree with Too Tall's post. Never have had trouble getting over and back down the mountain passes I have driven. Tundra makes a great TV. If you are really fixated over the payload capacities you really might want to look into a 3/4 ton of some other variety.


Best wishes in your search.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:09 AM   #25
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When built, the axle ratings must have tires with equal or higher load ratings. So the question can become one of how one feels driving on fully loaded tires (brand does make a difference).

Our 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins 4x4 has a GVW of 9,600 pounds with a 4,500 front axle rating and a 6,010 read axle ratings. The axles are rated when combined 10,600 pounds. The pair of Michelin tires are rated 6,010 pounds at 70 psi on the rear axle. I run 80 psi when towing on the rears and 70 psi on the front tires. I usually scale between 10,000 and 10,100 pounds on the truck when hitched using our ProPride hitch. The combination weighs about 19,200 pounds, which is within the combined towing limits of the truck. We replaced the factory receiver with one rated 2,500 pounds tongue weight and 17,000 pounds trailer.

We tow our 2015 23D International Serenity that scales 6,039 pounds fully loaded for camping with our 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI V6 turbo diesel. I inflate the Michelin car tires to 44 psi front and rear. We upgraded the trailer tires from the stock 14" GYM tires and wheels to 15" SenDel T03-56545T wheels and 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires inflated to 44 psi. Works for us. We carry one Honda 2000 watt gen set converted to propane only, an Viair compressor, the awning matching ZipDee chairs, a grill, bottle jack and tools in the car. We are under the combined totals of the axles and do not exceed any axle ratings.

So choosing a Tundra must include an evaluation of it's axle rating versus the actual empty weight of the vehicle. Then one knows the absolute maximum weight the Tundra could carry. Considering the trailer design, a front bed unit is more easily capable of overloading the tow vehicle with a high tongue weight. Moving the heavies stuff to the rear can counter balance that weight keeping in mind that the desired 10% of the total loaded trailer weight needs to be present at the hitch ball before weight distribution is turned on.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:32 PM   #26
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The brakes are as large and strong as you will find on the market. I did get the TRD package because of the better shocks and wheels. It DOES NOT offer an option of larger brakes. I ordered towing mirrors on my 2008 but had to have the dealer install them on my 2017. I wish I had power retractable mirrors because I do have to manually bring one in every time I enter my garage. After 9 years of doing this on my 2008, I never had a problem.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aftermath View Post
Pimms, many good points have been brought up and as an owner of a 2008 Tundra and now a 2017 Tundra with over 46,000 miles towing my 25FB I want to add my view.


First of all, the payload number are not the best. Toyota does not offer up any options to increase these. Adding a factory sway bar or upgrading to some really heavy LT tires will help the ride but not achieve an increase in PL. I still believe that you really need to think about how you want to "camp". Do you want to bring lots of wood, a motorcycle, two generators, 10 gallons of gas, 20 gallons of water and a tool box that an auto mechanic would be proud of? Get a bigger truck.


I have weighed my 25 and it goes down the road between 6 and 6.5 K. The tongue is heavy, like right at 1000 pounds. My hitch distributes this but it is still a lot of weight on the truck. It is just my wife and I and we are not huge humans. I always bring my generator, some chairs and an extra gallon of gas. I will often bring some firewood, about a single row and when going out in the woods a couple 5 gallon water totes. I might be "over" loaded but you can't tell it by looking or by driving.


I once put almost 3K of wet firewood in the back. Got out on the road and it was sitting down nicely but there was plenty of space between the rubber stops above the axle. It drove OK, the steering was responsive but I could tell it was loaded. Stopped on the way home at a scale and was amazed at the number. The point being, a Tundra is very well built and going over the payload number a little bit is not going to amount to trouble.


The brakes are as large and strong as you will find on the market. I did get the TRD package because of the better shocks and wheels. It DOES NOT offer an option of larger brakes. I ordered towing mirrors on my 2008 but had to have the dealer install them on my 2017. I wish I had power retractable mirrors because I do have to manually bring one in every time I enter my garage. After 9 years of doing this on my 2008, I never had a problem.


I also agree with Too Tall's post. Never have had trouble getting over and back down the mountain passes I have driven. Tundra makes a great TV. If you are really fixated over the payload capacities you really might want to look into a 3/4 ton of some other variety.


Best wishes in your search.
Hi Aftermath,
Can you elaborate on your choice of going with the TRD package as a benefit for towing? I was thinking the added skid plates would subtract from payload, but don’t know how the upgraded shocks and smaller diameter tires would be better. I plan to take a closer look at the Tundra this week. I’m thinking that weight added options are subtracting from factory spec’d payload, but if I go with a trim level I am happy with without adding options maybe the actual payload rating will be closer to the spec.
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:13 PM   #28
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Its funny the guys who are always so worried about weight guestimates towards a payload sticker never know their own actual axle and TW numbers.


They may tell you about their white knuckle ride before trading that overweight 1/2 ton for their dually. But have no idea what their axle and tongue weights were on that rig either. Then get mad when someone pipes in about towing the same trailer with the same ish brand year motor 1/2 ton for years and thousands of miles with no issue. But that guy can fetch his weight slip for ya.
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:07 PM   #29
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Yup. If you cant point to the measurements you cannot understand what you are doing. Applies to all forms of engineering and design work and in my opinion especially to setting up a hitch system on a rig.

If you dont have numbers, you have no idea whatsoever is going on.
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:37 PM   #30
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Yup. If you can’t point to the measurements you cannot understand what you are doing. Applies to all forms of engineering and design work and in my opinion especially to setting up a hitch system on a rig.

If you don’t have numbers, you have no idea whatsoever is going on.
I towed for years and never weighed anything, ever. I always biased loads to weigh the tongue down and prevent sway. Never had any issue, ever. It’s easy to do with car and implement trailers, not so much with an airstream. I’m sure I was heavy on the axle once or twice but the trucks I towed with were heavy duty enough I didn’t need to worry. Got my Hensley set up and a nice big truck and I don’t have to weigh it every time I bring an extra suitcase of grain a few pounds. Keep it simple.

I’m an engineer, but been around the block so I have a good sense of what’s safe and what’s crazy.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:29 AM   #31
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To be clear, since I originated this thread, I am shopping for a new tv. Weighing isn’t practical for me at this stage. I am at the mercy of the manufactures specs and door stickers.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:08 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Pimms View Post
To be clear, since I originated this thread, I am shopping for a new tv. Weighing isnt practical for me at this stage. I am at the mercy of the manufactures specs, door stickers and public opinion.

Fixed it for you.


Good luck with the purchase.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:24 AM   #33
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Thanks Too tall!
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:49 AM   #34
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I acquired my own two sets of four scales and can check individual tire loads. There can be significant difference in tire loads side to side as well as between axles.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:56 AM   #35
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If payload is what is important to you, here is the 2019 Ford F-150 XLT Super Crew *Heavy Duty Payload* 4X4 with a 2525# payload. See actual payload sticker on following link: https://www.hannafords.ca/vehicles/2...W1E56KKC06126/

This dealer, Hanna Ford, gets it and posts the actual payload sticker on every truck in stock.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:47 AM   #36
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Ill offer the following information in the hope that it will be useful in this discussion.
Vehicle: 2010 Toyota Tundra Limited 4x4 CrewMax. Loads and accessories when trailering: SnugTop shell, two-occupants (both under 150 lbs.), one-55 lbs. dog, Weber BBQ grill, campfire-in-a-can, 100w Renogy solar suitcase, 8x8x18 toolbox with basic tools (not a machine shop like some carry), rubber blocks for leveling, Fastway wheel chocks, 18 gal Blue cart for gray (grey for those in the UK) water, 2-LaFuma chairs, water softener, fire extinguisher, misc. straps, ropes, lantern, bundle of firewood on occasion.
Trailer: 2015 23FB. Usual hook-up implements (sewer hose, water hose, and electric cord), two-aluminum 30 lbs. LP tanks, two-6 volt LifeLine batteries, travel with about 10 gal. fresh water and a couple of gallons in the black and gray tanks, clothing, kitchenware, bedding, two-bikes on rear Fiamma rack.
Specs according to the placards and actual weights from a port-of-entry scale in Western Colorado:
Conditions: trailer hitched with WD attached to Tundra
Tundra Front Axle: Placard GAWR=4000 Actual weight=3350 650 lbs. under
Tundra Rear Axle: Placard GAWR=4150 Actual weight=4300 150 lbs. over
Tundra Gross: Placard GVWR=7200 Actual gross= 7650 450 lbs. over
Tundra Gross: Placard GCWR=16000 Actual Gross=12850 3150 lbs. under
Trailer: Placard Gross= 6000 Actual Gross= 5200 800 lbs. under
Tongue weight: 648 lbs.
Using these weights, I am over the GAWR in the rear by 150 lbs., or 3.6%, and over the GVWR by 450 lbs., or 6.25%. Yet, I am under the GCWR. I do find it interesting that the sum of the Axle ratings (GAWR) is greater than the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR).
I have changed out the P tires for Load Range E tires, added helper springs, TRD front and rear anti-sway bars, 5100 Bilstein shocks, and DBA brake rotors and pads. I am meticulous in adjusting the Equalizer and the rig is stable and tracks excellent. BUT, I am still over the rear GAWR and the GVWR.
We love the Tundra for its comfort and reliability. I feel that I have essentially two choices: sell it and go to a ton truck, or go on a weight reduction program. Probably getting rid of the topper would get me most of the way there, along with downsizing the LP tanks to 20 lbs. aluminum.
Many have told me not to worry about it, that the ratings are based on a lower rated P tire and that I am still under the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) by 20%.
I really do not want to change vehicles right now, but it is a nagging feeling that I have to be constrained with what we want to load up with.
Those are my thoughts and contribution to this discussion.
Thanks,
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:10 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Pimms View Post
To be clear, since I originated this thread, I am shopping for a new tv. Weighing isn’t practical for me at this stage. I am at the mercy of the manufactures specs and door stickers.
Pimms A Tundra like any half ton with proper motor & gearing is going to handle a 23' confidently and comfortably. Unless you put a ATV in the bed or something. Even then it might do it confidently but certainly not within spec.

When you get it be concerned with setting up your WDH & TT loading so that you generally replace your unloaded steer weight and TW toward 12% of gross trailer weight so as you have enough TW but are not putting more TW towards the trucks GVWR than you have to. TV & TT will handle and stop with maximum stability as mentioned confidently and comfortably. This will be far more important as to the rig stability than whether or not you are a few percent over GVWR.

As for how I use TV Mfgs numbers to see if its compatible with a particular trailer. Take the wet weight of your AS and multiply it by 12.5% use that for your estimated TW for comparing to available GVWR or payload. If the GVW is below the combined & individual axle weights, Steamys is 4,000 & 4,150 for a total of 8,150 she is going to be able to handle the load although possibly not below all specs. 500k transporting TTs for 3 Mfgs and a 1/2 ton truck never an issue with this.

As Steamy said this is my thoughts and contribution to your thread.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:52 PM   #38
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Thumbs up Thanks to all.

Lots and lots of very good responses. Thank you all!
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Old 01-08-2019, 03:11 PM   #39
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There is no option that I can find on the Tundra on-line build site for towing mirrors. Dealer I visited today confirms this.
Yeah, you would think when you get the towing package, it would include towing mirrors. What I bought a Tundra several years ago to haul my 25FC, I couldn't find them on a Tundra anywhere. I ended up buying some online, cheaper than dealer. They were easy to install and had turn signal lights and heated function. They were not power, but no big deal. They were not that difficult to install. I watched plenty of youtube videos, the first one took about 45 minutes, but the second one only took 10 minutes once I figured it out.
My Tundra could easily handle my 25 footer, though I was most likely maxed out payload wise, get a good WD hitch and get the dealer to help set it up for you. I only sold the Tundra for a F250 diesel once I moved up to a 30 footer.
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Old 01-08-2019, 04:06 PM   #40
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I also purchased tow mirrors on-line, with turn-signals, heated, and power fold. Not power extend.

my understanding is that you have to have the power fold feature on your stock mirrors for it to work on the tow mirrors.

I use the power fold feature every time I park to prevent them from being ripped off. very useful.
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