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Old 01-22-2014, 01:26 PM   #21
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mstephens,

Could going on the 300c Forums perhaps be helpful to you?

Is this my trans cooler? - Chrysler 300C Forum: 300C & SRT8 Forums

Sergei
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:34 PM   #22
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Steve, Mr UK Toad,

You will probably be able to read your transmission temperatures ( if you'd like that), and a whole lot more, if you get an in-expensive SCAN GAUGE II:

http://www.scangaugecanada.com/

I have it in the SPRINTER and consider it the best single device on my rig. I drive the truck to it.

Sergei

Incidentally, I have noted that the transmission fluid temperature on my truck more or less exactly mimics the coolant temperature at all times, if this is of any help to people.
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:42 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by mstephens View Post
A few more comments about the temperature monitoring.

I drove 70 miles out at 59F outdoor temp and then 70 miles home later with the outdoor temp at 80F. The road out was a steady climb from 0 to 2600 feet, and then the reverse coming home.

On the outbound the temp climbed from 150F to 175F and stayed there for the last half hour.

On the way home it was ~195F all the way. From this, I gathered that the temp would pretty much rise with the ambient temp. Of course, it may not be linear, but at least between 59F and 80F it does look linear. 20F rise in ambient yielded a 20F rise in transmission. I am not sure I understand the relationship between engine temp and trans temp? How would they be coupled if there is no trans cooler? Mysterious to me.

Today, just driving around town - stop and go - it pretty much stayed at 199F. The ambient was around 68F. Seems high to me.

I stopped at Chrysler dealer service to ask the price of a factory cooler. Oddly, they said MoPar did not make a unit for this car(???) and an aftermarket would be $180 parts + $345 labor. No brand was given. Talking to service bay agents is not very satisfying, to say the least. They are really clerks, not car buffs. So, I could get no useful advice about cooling, or fluids. Today I will try to connect with some sort of corporate "tech support."

I'll also be screening transmission shops by phone to see if anyone sounds knowledgeable about such things as coolers.

Your current automatic transmission cooler is part of your radiator. The radiator does the job for both the engine and the transmission under normal circumstances. I doubt that you will receive any additional satisfaction from corp. Your best bet is to find a local, privately owned, auto repair business for general work and perhaps a similar type of transmission shop for your special needs. I I use the former for all work because I found a good one, sort of like finding a doctor or dentist. Par particular attention to the information provided by "Slowmover" and stick with his recommendations. Your best application will be the Long Tru Cool mounted between the radiator cooler and the transmission. That is an important step that a good shop will be well versed in. Jim
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:36 PM   #24
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I did some checking on the transmission used in the 2012 V6 300, and found that it is a ZF 8HP, in a 450 Nm variant. That is the same transmission that I referred to in my comments above, in my case in a BMW. Wikipedia lists all the other platforms using that transmission, starting with the Charger, but including the Ram 1500. That is a likely candidate to include an additional factory cooler, possibly as part of a tow package.

The heavier (700 Nm) version of your 8HP transmission is used in the Durango V8 and Jeep GC V8 models, so there are some more potential parts sources. All this assumes there is some value in using something that has flows matched to the transmission. If the transmission cooling also uses the radiator you may need to look at a larger capacity radiator as well.

Smokeless Joe's excellent link to a 300C forum shows a thread titled Frankencooler, a cooling project on a 300C, which discusses the need for additional PS cooling as well as engine and transmission cooling, when the LX platform is being tracked (they found the failure points, so that can be valuable data).

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Old 01-22-2014, 03:04 PM   #25
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Your current automatic transmission cooler is part of your radiator.
By visual inspection I was coming slowly to that conclusion this morning. I looked around under the hood, and discovered a manifold with 6 hardlines coming in/out and an obvious electrical pump attached to the side of it. Around the size of a loaf of bread. With 6 lines, I had to assume the transmission was part of this affair. It's REALLY hard to see much around the radiator.

Tons of good info guys. I'm soaking it all in. If I had a super "car guy" in the area, I'd be a lot less dumb about all this. It's hard to find such guys when you are new to an area. I've only been here 6 mos. Trust me, it was just as hard to find doctors and dentists too!

I'm on the hunt for a transmission guy. Also, I did join the 300C forum, and am learning my way around it. It's....a little slower moving than this one. Or, I just don't know my way around yet. But yes, I am looking there too. I'll look up the Frankencooler thread!
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:27 PM   #26
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Mark,
The manifold of which you speak with six hardlines sounds more like the anti lock braking system to me.

As to the whole issue of what trans cooler to use, my suggestion would be to go with whatever CanAm reccos. Honestly, they are about the only ones that have real worlrd expeience in this type of usage for these cars.

Power steering cooler as mentioned is also a superb idea. On my Frontier, that is part of the towing package.

And yes you are right, the service writer at most dealerships have limited technical knowledge most times. They are more of a pretty face, clean hands and a sales person. You need to talk to a real deal mechanic in the shop.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:53 PM   #27
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etrailer lists multiple Derale coolers for the Ram 1500, which uses the same transmission. At least you know the pressure drops should be OK. It would come down to adapting the mounting points and connecting lines, and ensuring you have physical space to mount it.

But a recommendation from Canam sounds like the best path forward to me.
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Old 01-22-2014, 04:17 PM   #28
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mstephens,

Since Jeff has tracked down that your transmission is shared with the Ram 1500 you might also find help at Geno’s Garage in Cummins, Georgia:

Geno's Garage is about Dodge Cummins Turbo Parts, Accessories and Technical Support

I don’t really know anything about the subject here- the thread is way over my head – but I did talk to Geno’s once when buying stuff from them and I could tell that they really knew what they were talking about.

Something like the guys you wished you had in your town…..

You can’t go wrong talking to Andrew T at Can Am either. He takes an interest in this stuff, knows a lot and will share his knowledge with people.

Sergei
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Old 01-22-2014, 04:50 PM   #29
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Steve, Mr UK Toad,

You will probably be able to read your transmission temperatures ( if you'd like that), and a whole lot more, if you get an in-expensive SCAN GAUGE II:

http://www.scangaugecanada.com/

I have it in the SPRINTER and consider it the best single device on my rig. I drive the truck to it.

Sergei

Incidentally, I have noted that the transmission fluid temperature on my truck more or less exactly mimics the coolant temperature at all times, if this is of any help to people.

Sergei,

I have a Scangauge and it's a really useful tool; it's how I track the engine temperatures. The problem is that the cheapskates at Toyota have ditched the temperature sensor in the transmission for a simple good/bad switch, that is, I'll get a warning on the dash if the oil's too hot (no mention of what's too hot, naturally) but of course the Scanguage can't read that. I can get the local Toyota dealer to put a proper sensor in place of the switch and the onboard computer may be able to deal with it. Failing that I'm looking at an additional dial.

Toyota cheaped out on a number of items in the 2011 LE model, including the automatic light sensor. That must have saved them all of $20 a unit

Thanks for the heads up about the engine temperature and transmission temperature relationship.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:03 PM   #30
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But a recommendation from Canam sounds like the best path forward to me.
That get's my vote!

Can-AM installed an inexpensive Hayden #405 Ultra transmission cooler on my Traverse. A cheap external tranny cooler is FAR superior to a "built in" cooler. We don't live in the hottest of climes, but in the summer hauling our 6000 pounder (loaded) up HWY 400/11 the tranmission temperature has never exceeded 190 degrees F at ANY time. Don't over think it; just buy a competent cooler and get it installed.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:41 PM   #31
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But a recommendation from Canam sounds like the best path forward to me.
Several people mentioned this. I would not have the stones to attempt this project without having conferred substantially with Andy! It was his piece in Airstream Life that got me going. I have exchanged many emails with Andy over Hitches, custom receiver mods, suspension mods, trans cooler. I almost feel guilty for bugging him. Gotta tell you fellas, he's a real gentlemen when it comes to helping others. If I lived within 1000 miles I would have drive straight to his shop!

That said, he initially didn't feel a cooler was needed because A) in Canada they don't need them, and B) he knows a guy in Arizona with my setup and has towed all summer with no issue. Ok, I do take that as one good data point, BUT, BUT, BUT, at my house 117F is not rare. Anywhere we want to go will involve long grades over passes that begin at 3000 and head right up to 8000 or so. When I saw that the trans temp was 199F on a 80F day, with NO TRAILER, I had to think a cooler was in my future in spite of the one data point. (NOTE: Now however, some new understanding is sinking in where the radiator is doing some trans cooling? I may be jumped the gun about how ambient temp will affect trans temp.)

So fear not, I prevail on Andy as much as my conscious will allow! There's a huge business opportunity in California for a "West Coast Version" of Andy T.
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Old 01-22-2014, 06:15 PM   #32
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Very good suggestions above as to research. Same transmission in other models, etc.

As to ATF it is likely the car is already a synthetic-spec fluid. Note also PSF spec and keep those specs handy as aftermarket premium fluids need to meet them.

As to downstream coolers (note in my above post that bypass cold fluid) look more closely to police-spec pieces. Since the 1950's, very high performance cars, police and fleet (taxi) often ahd special parts for them alone (or may have been part of a "HD suspension" option, etc).

The police market is highly competitive. Michigan State Police has run performance testing for decades (articles online). Cars a few years into production often have chnages that benefit the double-the-odometer actual wear these cars see (much of it to do with extended idling).

I'll see if I can't find something in a quick search.

.
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:04 PM   #33
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Dodge Charger police cars: burning up the track (2011-2014)

Dodge Charger_Pursuit_Upfitters_Guide.pdf


2011 police spec


Severe duty engine cooling, transmission cooling, steering fluid cooling


Original is at Cop Equipment: 2012-2014 Factory Installed Police Upfit Packages Cop Equipment: 2012-2014 Factory Installed Police Upfit Packages


Part or assembly numbers are what is needed. Can take awhile onine, but someone may know.

The FLEET department at a regionally large dealership would be my start as they can also cross-reference engine/transmission specific applications across vehicle lines.

.
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:41 PM   #34
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The Fleet dept no. Is 1 800 999-fleet
Try them, looks interesting.
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Old 01-22-2014, 08:18 PM   #35
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Dodge Charger police cars: burning up the track (2011-2014)

Dodge Charger_Pursuit_Upfitters_Guide.pdf


2011 police spec


Severe duty engine cooling, transmission cooling, steering fluid cooling


Original is at Cop Equipment: 2012-2014 Factory Installed Police Upfit Packages Cop Equipment: 2012-2014 Factory Installed Police Upfit Packages


Part or assembly numbers are what is needed. Can take awhile onine, but someone may know.

The FLEET department at a regionally large dealership would be my start as they can also cross-reference engine/transmission specific applications across vehicle lines.

.
My goodness! Thank you, Slowmover. That's some serious info there. I will study it carefully. Looks rich with specifics.

So many helpful comments from you guys! If I haven't thanked you specifically, let me cover it now - - it's all helpful for a guy that hasn't busted a knuckle under a car in 40 years! (Well, ok, there was a big bruise I got trying to take my old EQ hitch off the Airstream last week, Pull, pull, pull....slip! SLAM! OUCH!) Still gets in the way of typing.) My wife is beginning to think I am nuts.
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Old 01-22-2014, 08:32 PM   #36
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That said, [Andy T.] initially didn't feel a cooler was needed because A) in Canada they don't need them, and B) he knows a guy in Arizona with my setup and has towed all summer with no issue.
Woha! Are you sure Andy wasn't referring to an supplementary OIL cooler? I know he doesn't think oil coolers are all that necessary for most folks. But a transmission cooler is essential -- they are two different things.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:19 PM   #37
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Woha! Are you sure Andy wasn't referring to an supplementary OIL cooler? I know he doesn't think oil coolers are all that necessary for most folks. But a transmission cooler is essential -- they are two different things.
Yikes! Now I Really am worried. Maybe I misread his comment. Thanks Garfield, I will check immediately.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:29 AM   #38
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I believe the engine already has one. High rpm DOHC engines is at about the design point where one needs to be able to keep sump temps constant (all fluids should be measured at sump, this is the industry standard).
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Old 01-26-2015, 10:43 PM   #39
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Follow-up data on GMC tranny temp

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I see 190-210 when towing my 25 FB on the flat, with outside temp in the 90-100 degree range. When climbing mountains in Colorado, the tranny temp climbs steadily. I pull over and let it cool at 235. I don't have any solid basis for that 235 number.

I have a 2010 Yukon Denali 6.2 liter engine with 6 sp. transmission. The owner's manual doesn't say how hot is too hot, but it does say that the temp should be in the 160-200 degree range when checking the transmission fluid level. My independent mechanic says he found a reference that says the car will post the warning message at 266 degrees.
This thread has run its course, but I recently got a tidbit of info about the temperatures in my vehicle. I emailed GM (what a concept!) and asked them if the coolant and tranny temps I was seeing is normal. They asked for my VIN, and then sent me a table of temps for my Yukon. These are the points at which the engine fans go to half and full speed, based on air conditioner pressure, engine coolant temp, engine oil temp, and transmission fluid temp. For the trans fluid, the fans go to half speed at 253 F, and full speed at 257 F. Higher than I would have thought. The warning message TRANSMISSION HOT IDLE ENGINE comes at 270 F.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:03 AM   #40
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X2

POI....The GM PCM will go into 'limp' mode if the trans temp gets over 270*.

Pay attention to the DIC and you'll stay out of trouble.

Our 06 2500 Burb 8.1 stays at 150-160 when towing.



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