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Old 07-23-2020, 10:43 AM   #161
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2019 23' International
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Pulling with a Range Rover

I have 2019 RR sport and a 23fb international. I have no issue pulling the trailer. I have a question and didn’t know where to post it. So here goes.

When my AS is connected i am unable to open my back RR gate fully to let the dog out. I have to unhitch. I looked around for a hitch extension but everything i find is only rated for 300lb TW.

Any thoughts? Is anyone else finding this problem?
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Old 07-23-2020, 11:19 AM   #162
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I would look at the drawbar length options provided by your hitch manufacturer or check on etrailer.com.

Keep in mind that adding length to the drawbar will add additional forces to your tow vehicle. this may also change the way your sway control behaves by moving the ball away from your tow vehicles axle. Some hitches do come with longer drawbars allowing for tail gates to open without hitting the trailer. I think Hensley is one and maybe ProPride as well.
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Old 07-23-2020, 01:28 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by PB_NB View Post
I would look at the drawbar length options provided by your hitch manufacturer or check on etrailer.com.

Keep in mind that adding length to the drawbar will add additional forces to your tow vehicle. this may also change the way your sway control behaves by moving the ball away from your tow vehicles axle. Some hitches do come with longer drawbars allowing for tail gates to open without hitting the trailer. I think Hensley is one and maybe ProPride as well.
Thank you for that. I looked it up and found a 12” shank that i think would work. I am a bit worried about what you said regarding sway control. I do not use a sway bar or WD hitch as RR recommends against it and i never really needed it. Do you have any insight on how the handling would change?
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Old 07-23-2020, 01:46 PM   #164
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I posted this in another thread, but I'll share it here as well. After many hours of research, I decided to get a 3P WD hitch with sway control to tow my Flying Cloud 23FB.

The consensus among the towing/hitch experts I talked to was that the recommendation against WD hitches amongst all European car makers (not just Land Rover) is not due to safety or operational concerns, but economic/historical factors. One of them said this:

Quote:
"Manufacturers do not recommend that*European*SUVs*use weight-distributing hitches. WDHs aren’t used in Europe for one historical reason… *Back in the 1960s, the Eaz-Lift company tried to introduce their WDH to the*European*market. The*European*RV industry panicked and thought the US would subsequently try to gain a foothold and start flooding the market with North American trailers. Legislation was soon enacted to ban the sale of the Eaz-Lift (and all WDHs as a result)."
Overseas they don't use weight distribution and build their trailers with lighter tongue weights; thus they don't recommend WD hitches in their documentation.
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Old 07-23-2020, 02:15 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by switters View Post
I posted this in another thread, but I'll share it here as well. After many hours of research, I decided to get a 3P WD hitch with sway control to tow my Flying Cloud 23FB.

The consensus among the towing/hitch experts I talked to was that the recommendation against WD hitches amongst all European car makers (not just Land Rover) is not due to safety or operational concerns, but economic/historical factors. One of them said this:



Overseas they don't use weight distribution and build their trailers with lighter tongue weights; thus they don't recommend WD hitches in their documentation.
I am sure there is some of those European differences at play here. Higher speed limits over here can contribute to the differences as well. Gas and diesel prices drive the smaller car market over there. It is very common to see VW Golfs pulling 22 foot trailers but not at 85 mph, they are maxed out at 60 mph.

As far as the shank extension goes, my own experience is with 2 hitches from the same manufacturer, one is a regular hitch which projects out from the pin hole by about 8 inches to the ball. The other is a WD hitch that adds another 6" to the projection. When I tow the trailer with the regular hitch, I get about 2" of rear squat but when I use the WD hitch head by itself the back end of the truck is sitting on the bump stops (same trailer in both cases). As the distance from the pin to the ball gets longer, the forces appear to get higher on the bumper. It is really a longer lever arm trying to twist the bumper of the truck. I am sure there is some math for the differences but I am not too sure where to find it.

When I use the WD hitch with the load bars things change and the twisting gets applied in the opposite direction and at the drawbar-hitchhead connection which is about 12" shorter in the lever arm length. I think it is easier on the truck using the WDH. Ours is a unibody as well.
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Old 07-23-2020, 07:48 PM   #166
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The math is straight forward. The increased load shifted from front axle to back axle accounts for the increased rear squat and it is simply the ratio of the increased ball to rear axle distance. if the base distance is 48 inches and you increase it by 6 you shift 8% more load from front to rear. But no worries, WD tension completely overrides the extra load on rear suspension effect and can also counteract the increase in sway tendency from the longer extension. Unfortunately, WD tension cannot help with yaw momentum. Thus longer extensions will allow the trailer to push the vehicle around more in any situation making it less comfortable and less stable.
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Old 07-23-2020, 07:58 PM   #167
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Hi Brian, thanks for clearing that up.

And welcome back!
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:47 AM   #168
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Towing with Range Rover

Hi Timberman. I know it’s a pain not opening the tailgate but definitely do not extend your ball further out. The increased overhand will make it very unstable. You definitely should use weight distribution and sway control. If you like send me an email Andy@canamrv.ca and can send you information on how to set it up properly along with a more detailed explanation of why LR doesn’t recommend it.
Two options for the tailgate. Get a Hensley or ProPride hitch or have a fabricator move the jack into the space beside the battery box.
I hope this helps.
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Old 07-29-2020, 05:00 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
Hi Timberman. I know it’s a pain not opening the tailgate but definitely do not extend your ball further out. The increased overhand will make it very unstable. You definitely should use weight distribution and sway control. If you like send me an email Andy@canamrv.ca and can send you information on how to set it up properly along with a more detailed explanation of why LR doesn’t recommend it.
Two options for the tailgate. Get a Hensley or ProPride hitch or have a fabricator move the jack into the space beside the battery box.
I hope this helps.
Andy
I just finished installing the ProPride 3P hitch and I took the rig out for a drive. It felt WAY more stable than towing the trailer without it. The folks at CanAm explained to me why LR (and other European brands, for that matter) recommend against WD, and it has nothing to do with safety or effective towing.
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Old 07-30-2020, 08:20 AM   #170
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Had to laugh

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Originally Posted by wulfraat View Post
You’ll be fine towing a 23’ with a RRS.

As you get up there in miles and past your warrantee watch out on repair, upkeep and transmission replacement costs... but that goes without saying for an RR/LR product (I’ve owned 3 - it was a nonsensical passion).

Absolutely deploy a WD hitch. Calibrate your weight distribution / spring bar tension with the vehicle sitting level on a concrete pad >>>>>>> with the RR battery negative cable physically disconnected >>>>>> to eliminate EAS compensation.......

When you are done with LR products from a towing perspective do what I did and get a dedicated 3/4 ton diesel towing rig and 30’ AS with more room to spread out in

I do miss my 2011 L322 500hp supercharged though

I had to laugh reading this as we ended up in the same position. After years with multiple Airstreams and Rovers and with lots of excess work and money to get the Rover Airstream combo paired nicely (including reinforced frame) we ended up getting a 3/4 ton and 30ft Airstream and couldn’t be happier with the combo.

I wasn’t giving up a Rover to drive a truck daily and neither was my wife. .......but once she got behind the wheel of the 2500HD Denali she was converted. Would have been fine with a 3rd car but she still loves that truck so much.

We love the extra room of the 30 as it’s the right size for us.
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Old 10-02-2020, 07:15 AM   #171
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Currently have plans to use our 2008 Range rover HSE as tow vehicle for new 23' Globetrotter. Will be going from NY to Fla. late November. Would appreciate any comments re: the tow vehicle capabilities. Did receive feedback from 1 member already which was very helpful and informative, looking for more input if anyone else has any comments. Range rover has 770# tongue capacity + 7700 tow capability. Airstream is 591 tongue weight and approx. 6,000 lb. Vehicle weight. I know that the airbag suspension system is not optimum for towing, does anyone have any input as to that aspect of my concerns?
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Old 10-02-2020, 07:54 AM   #172
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I think once the Globetrotter is loaded and if you end up with water in your tanks as you will from time to time, you will be about 5700-5800 and 800-900 on the tongue. After WD is added the effective hitch net load will be about 600, so you're not in bad shape by the specs, and the distribution is good for stability. You will have a good combination. FYI the 7700 lb limit applies to the european market, so it is unclear what the British Engineers advise for US trailers and roads, but either way the RR HSE isa competent tow vehicle for this trailer, it has a bit bigger margin of safety than the numbers indicate.

The airbags are very good for towing, they just make it much harder to set things up properly. The airbags stiffen the spring rates which improves passenger comfort and allows more cargo than otherwise. Stability wise it makes a modest improvement, not a lot.

You will need to add a trailer brake controller. The Curt Echo or similar Bluetooth models are easiest to install, but you do have to keep the app on and ready as in an emergency, applying trailer brakes manually is the only good chance to recover from oversteer or sway. Fortunately is is very uncommon.

You will want a WD and sway control hitch. Something modest like the Eaz Lift Elite or similar. You want to avoid a stiff hitch. The Propride is top of the line if you want to go that option. It is great for people who don't like any lateral jogs and drive a bit white knuckle it is mandatory for situations where the vehicle is overloaded. Depending on your driving style you may want to consider it.
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:01 AM   #173
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I have a 2019 Range Rover Sport and am towing a FC 23FB. I would definitely recommend the ProPride hitch. I towed the 23FB a few times without it, and it felt pretty sketchy to me. But with the hitch—properly configured—I can drive 75 mph on the freeway with no movement or sway and feel completely safe. Totally worth the $$ IMO.

One note: I found that the weight distribution jacks had to be about 7-8" up in order to put sufficient weight on the front axle, because the Range Rover rides low in the back. ProPride customer support is legendary and will help you get it configured properly.
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:12 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by ArkFortyCal View Post
I had to laugh reading this as we ended up in the same position. After years with multiple Airstreams and Rovers and with lots of excess work and money to get the Rover Airstream combo paired nicely (including reinforced frame) we ended up getting a 3/4 ton and 30ft Airstream and couldn’t be happier with the combo.

I wasn’t giving up a Rover to drive a truck daily and neither was my wife. .......but once she got behind the wheel of the 2500HD Denali she was converted. Would have been fine with a 3rd car but she still loves that truck so much.

We love the extra room of the 30 as it’s the right size for us.


Spend a lot on what 'ya got and then turn back the clock and spend some more.

Bob
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Old 10-03-2020, 05:25 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Timberman View Post
Thank you for that. I looked it up and found a 12” shank that i think would work. I am a bit worried about what you said regarding sway control. I do not use a sway bar or WD hitch as RR recommends against it and i never really needed it. Do you have any insight on how the handling would change?
Extending that hitch is a seriously bad idea. It will reduce the speed at which sway sets in - and increase the magnitude of that sway. Don't do it!

As a general observation I find this forum rather strange. People are buying arguably the very best (and costly) travel trailers on the face of this planet - and then prejudicing their on-road behaviour by attempting to tow them by vehicles that are demonstrably inadequate. And then attempting to fix that by methods (such as a WDH) that solves one issue -but introduces others.

This behaviour exists also in Australia (and worsened by poorly-designed trailers) - but rarely in the EU or UK - where a WDH is all-but unknown.

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Old 10-03-2020, 08:32 PM   #176
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Collyn, In the case above the gentleman is well under towing capacity and is currently not using any form of WD or sway control. If this person adds a WD hitch with sway control and in doing so the ball is extended by 6 inches relative to the old location to accommodate the WD and sway mechanisms and also allows the lift to clear, what will be the drop in sway critical speed? How much will the hitch sway damping raise the speed? Which affect will be greater?
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Old 10-04-2020, 07:25 AM   #177
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Short shank, moot point when the pivot point is moved very close to the TV rear axle....
PPP and 15% TW is working just fine here.

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Old 10-10-2020, 07:27 PM   #178
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Collyn, In the case above the gentleman is well under towing capacity and is currently not using any form of WD or sway control. If this person adds a WD hitch with sway control and in doing so the ball is extended by 6 inches relative to the old location to accommodate the WD and sway mechanisms and also allows the lift to clear, what will be the drop in sway critical speed? How much will the hitch sway damping raise the speed? Which affect will be greater?
Crickets.... Wonder why no response from either of the folks who cautioned against doing this (PPP being the exception).
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Old 10-11-2020, 02:32 PM   #179
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I pull my 23FB with a Range Rover (RR) HSE TD6 with no major problems. I had to add a Weight Distribution (WD) hitch. The Range Rover’s anti-sway control slammed on the breaks when sway started - quite alarming when this happens. The air suspension and built-in backup camera on the RR makes hitching up a breaze.

The only problem I have is that my RR goes into reduced performance mode in stop & go traffic (transmission overheats). I use the occasion to pull over for a snack or fill up with gas and in 15 minutes we’re good to go.

The Airstream will track well but the RR will definitely feel the tug from behind. Make sure your set up the WD hitch properly or have someone knowledgeable set it up. I occasionally use the low gear mode for steep inclines (off highway). I can pull my AS up a fairly steep incline. I also carry a tow strap for pulling pick-ups out of trouble.

Don’t let the nay sayers dissuade you, a Range Rover HSE can handle any US Airstream under 27’. You may see pictures with larger European Airstream trailers but those trailers a lighter than the US versions due to configuration differences.

The best part is that after your Airstream is unhitched, you’re driving a Range Rover - one of the best cruising and off-road vehicles available. Your Airstream friends with pick-ups will probably want you to drive them around.

Enjoy your RV AND Range Rover. You made a good decision.
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Old 10-11-2020, 05:40 PM   #180
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By the numbers I don't see where a RR HSE will competently tow a 25' Airstream with the same risk profile as vehicles rated for 1000+ lb tongue weight unless one jumps through hoops to get tongue weight way down and even then it will continue to have transmission heating issues, modest risk of unstable oversteer and now a risk of sway. The Land Rover engineers set the tongue limits low for a reason and that reason is oversteer in high speed, high g cornering. It will be most problematic on a steep downgrade. Stick to 23 and under unless you like to occasionally gamble.
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