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Old 10-12-2020, 12:29 AM   #181
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Voila! Le LOOK! Produit de France c’est maqnifique!

695 limited Canadian flag edition which I’m sure you can appreciate being from BC I-PACK. Campy eps record of course!
Produit de France c’est merde!
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Old 10-12-2020, 06:19 AM   #182
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Very comforting to hear what you posted. How do you know when the RR is in reduced performance mode, do you get a message on the dashboard?
I was looking at various WD hitches, some reasonably priced and then there is the Propride 3P which is the top of the line but very pricey compared to the rest. Want to be sure I purchase the proper model given my TV and TT setup. If I may ask which WD hitch do you use? You also mentioned "the RR's anti-sway control slammed on the brakes". Does the RR have this feature already built into it or did you have one installed?
Thanks again for any input, I find it very helpful.
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Old 10-12-2020, 06:51 AM   #183
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I agree that anything over a 23' would be risky and my AS dealer concurs with that as well. I have read other posts from you and I must say you seem to be very knowledgeable in these matters. I know you mentioned earlier about the ProPride 3P hitch and I am sure it is the best system on the market but, as you know, very pricey. Is there another product you could suggest that is more economical? I have decided to go with your recommendation on the Curt Echo Wireless Brake Controller. Is there an anti-sway system that you would suggest as well?
Thank you in advance for any input you can provide.
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Old 10-12-2020, 07:58 AM   #184
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Since you are getting a new model, the Andersen is an excellent option, I just finished testing it. I always liked the design and bought one three years ago but never installed it til now. It is a competent hitch, is easy on the trailer, and is likely the easiest to adjust and use. Another good choice for a 23' is the EAZ Lift Elite with optional sway damping (not the Recurve). I don't really like the add on friction bar design, but it works so I try not to complain. You should disconnect it/them (two can be added) when making sharp backing maneuvers.

Reese also has a couple of nice designs that will server you well. The Blue Ox is not an ideal choice. Equalizer is a poor choice for you.
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Old 10-12-2020, 08:48 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by ebogiz View Post
Very comforting to hear what you posted. How do you know when the RR is in reduced performance mode, do you get a message on the dashboard?

I was looking at various WD hitches, some reasonably priced and then there is the Propride 3P which is the top of the line but very pricey compared to the rest. Want to be sure I purchase the proper model given my TV and TT setup. If I may ask which WD hitch do you use? You also mentioned "the RR's anti-sway control slammed on the brakes". Does the RR have this feature already built into it or did you have one installed?

Thanks again for any input, I find it very helpful.


My Range Rover (RR) has gone into “Reduced Performance Mode” three times. When this happens a warning appears on the dashboard. The vehicle is restricted to around 45 mph. This has happened only in stop & go traffic resulting from an accident on the highway. When I am towing and my nav system indicates slow traffic ahead, I start looking for an alternative route or pull off for a bite to eat. In general, I avoid rush hours in large cities. The funny thing is that my RR has no problems pulling my trailer up steep upgrades. As long as there is good airflow through the engine and transmission, there has been no problem.

When I picked up my Airstream (AS) initially, I used a non weight distribution hitch and the trailer was lightly loaded. I had the OEM trailer hitch installed on my RR that was configured by my Land Rover dealer which I think added some features on my dash (e.g. trailer camera functions and perhaps also anti-sway). The HSE (High Standard Edition) comes with many standard features that are options on other vehicles some I am not sure what functions are standard and which are options.

When pulling my AS without a weight distribution (WD) hitch, the trailer would begin to sway from wind or being passed by a big truck. The trailer would start to oscillate and eventually the RR’s anti-sway function (standard function in my HSE) would kick in breaking the trailer.

Note that the RR does not come standard with a break controller but my Land Rover dealer states that a Tekonsha P3 can be added using the F150 wiring harness adapter (with a minor modification). Ford used to own Land Rover so my 2016 RR HSE TD6 shares many drive train components with the F150. Instead of installing the Tekonsha, I also tried using a Curt bluetooth controller with some improved results. A break controller allows adjusting the break bias between the trailer and the TV. Adding some braking bias on trailer fixes most issues; however, a WD hitch is a better solution since the WD hitch distributes load from the back tires of the TV to the front tires.

I use a 10k lb Equal-i-zer WD hitch. They are not cheap. They are not light (it’s a good workout putting it on). But it works great once setup properly. It has three-way sway damping that works great. I have never had a sway problem even in heavy gusty crosswinds. I recommend it highly. I use a non-WD hitch when moving my AS short distances at slow speeds (i.e., non highway).

As others have stated, I would not recommend a RR for larger trailers but RR can handle trailers less than 25’. I have never had a problem with my 23FB. I have never had a problem with understeer pulling my AS but I would note that I drive at or below the speed limit when pulling my AS and take corners no faster than the posted recommended speeds. I once had to panic brake due to a crazy driver who pull in front of me to make a sudden turn and I was surprised how fast my RR/AS was able to stop. So braking has never been a problem.

As with any TV, make sure it is maintained is good condition (good tires at recommended pressures, good brakes, recommended oil and coolant changes). As with any modern vehicle pulling a heavy trailer, I recommend to always have the TV under warranty. I have an extended 100K warranty on my RR.

I hope this information is helpful.
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Old 10-12-2020, 10:18 AM   #186
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You may be able to help the transmission stay cool at lower speeds and stop and go traffic by keeping the transmission in a lower gear so the torque converter does not slip so much. Also accelerate as gently as possible. This may solve the issue. FYI stop and go low speed traffic and 30-45 mph hilly winding roads will heat the transmission most because of converter slip.
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Old 10-13-2020, 07:01 AM   #187
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Once again, any input and suggestions are extremely helpul.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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Old 10-13-2020, 07:03 AM   #188
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Thanks, I will look into these options. Any suggestions you come up with are greatly appreciated.
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Old 10-14-2020, 05:43 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
You may be able to help the transmission stay cool at lower speeds and stop and go traffic by keeping the transmission in a lower gear so the torque converter does not slip so much. Also accelerate as gently as possible. This may solve the issue. FYI stop and go low speed traffic and 30-45 mph hilly winding roads will heat the transmission most because of converter slip.


Thanks for the feedback BayouBiker. The Range Rover’s low gear is quite low and limited to about 15 mph. I do use low gear for steep inclines as well as shift to a higher gear above 15 mph when driving in very slow stop & go traffic. The RR has electronic shift using a knob and push buttons to shift from low to normal transmission modes. It’s a bit awkward but not not too hard to use. It’s kind of like the push button transmissions of years gone bye.

For stop & go traffic, it doesn’t seem to help that much. For pulling my AS up steep upgrades at slow speeds it works great. Low gear with my diesel is a real “stump puller”. Gobs of torque. I have rarely had problems going up steep grades at highway speeds. When I do I get in line with the trucks in the pokey lane. The turbo diesel gets much of it’s torque over 2000 rpm so as long as I pull the rpms and get enough airflow through the radiators there is no problem.

My only request to Land Rover is that it would be nice to have a bigger transmission cooler and higher capacity alternator rowing package. Higher tongue weight rating would also be better. It should be highlighted at the Range Rover’s ratings are consistent with other European SUVs (tongue weight 10% of trailer weight).

For heavy trailers, you really need an American truck as stated by previous responses. European car manufacturer’s don’t understand the need for large trucks since driving them on narrow European streets in town is a real challenge.

The interesting thing about the Range Rover is that once it is unhitched, it’s a great off-road vehicle. There are five off-road program modes with air lift suspension. You won’t find that on a standard F150. Plus, you can drive through water 39” deep with no leaks. You won’t find that either in an F150.

The Range Rover is a unique AS tow vehicle. From my perspective, it has more up sides than down sides for AS trailers less than 25’. I have run across Airstreamers pulling 25’ trailers with Range Rovers and they claim to not have had any problems. I think a 25’ AS is right at the limit of a large Range Rover (HSE or Sport). The smaller Range Rovers should be able to pull a Bambi with no problems.

When I traveled to Europe, I rented a Range Rover and 27’ (8.25m, model 684) European AS and I was warned (by a very nice policeman) to stay away from the center of a small older town since there were some streets that I would not be able to make it through.
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Old 10-15-2020, 10:35 AM   #190
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We have many customers that tow 25/30' Airstreams with Range Rovers. I have never heard of one going into limp mode due to heat and my own tow vehicle has the same 5.0 Litre supercharged drivetrain. I run it quite hard and again even on the race track with the trailer have not had a heat issue. You have a ZF transmission which does not generate much heat as it always has the torque converter locked except for initial pull away and gear changes. 99% of the time is like a manual transmission.

If it happens again check the temperature of the cooling metal cooling line going to the radiator with an infrared thermometer. Compare this the temperature after a drive on a hot day without the trailer. It should be about 200 F. If it is more than 30 degrees warmer when towing then there is possibly an issue in the transmission if it is not then it may just be an electrical or sensor glitch.

This company is very knowledgeable on ZF's and might have an answer.

https://www.thectsc.com/

If you are more than 60,000 Miles you should consider changing the fluid.

I hope this helps.

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Old 10-16-2020, 06:58 AM   #191
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Andrew,
I have a 2008 Range Rover HSE and plan to use it to tow my 23' AS Globetrotter. So far the input from other people has been positive as to its ability to handle the job. Recently experienced a suspension fault issue and had to have the air pump and solenoid replaced, now problem seems to be fixed. I am going to purchase a WD hitch w/sway control and a Curt Echo Wireless Brake Controller. Any recommendations or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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Old 10-16-2020, 11:53 PM   #192
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Land Rovers have a following in Australia - where many many major routes are still corrugated dirt, by far the most commonly used tow vehicles are Toyota Land Cruisers. Many owners in the more isolated areas (i.e most of Australia ouside the cities!) prefer the pre-computer models and keep the early ones well maintained.

There are some Jeeps but by and large here, they are seen as badly made and unreliable. But having towed a broken-down one some 2500 miles across the Sahara many years ago I am not a Jeep fan!.

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Old 10-17-2020, 07:35 AM   #193
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Andrew,
I have a 2008 Range Rover HSE and plan to use it to tow my 23' AS Globetrotter. So far the input from other people has been positive as to its ability to handle the job. Recently experienced a suspension fault issue and had to have the air pump and solenoid replaced, now problem seems to be fixed. I am going to purchase a WD hitch w/sway control and a Curt Echo Wireless Brake Controller. Any recommendations or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Thanks
ebogiz:

When towing with a Range Rover (RR), or any TV for that matter, it is important that the brakes and tires are in good working order and that the tires are inflated properly. My RR has the OEM towing package that can sense when a trailer is attached and checks the inflation level of the tires (TPMS system). I get a warning if the tire pressure is too low. If any TV does not has that capability, TST makes an excellent TPMS system that can be added to the TV and AS capable of monitoring all tires. The Amazon and Airstream Life stores have these systems. Having the tire pressures set at the proper level is important to prevent some very bad things from happening. Makes sure the tires on the TV and AS have sufficient tread and are not too old (rubber deteriorates even if there are not many miles on the tires). Most tires, including trailer tires have a useful life of 4-6 years depending how they are maintained. I cover my AS tires if they are exposed to the sun for any length of time.


Happy RVing!


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Old 10-18-2020, 07:30 AM   #194
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Mike,
Thanks for the input. I purchased our RR used and certified from a RR dealer and it already had the hitch installed. Not sure if it was an OEM install or after market so no way to know if it is capable to monitor the tire pressure of the AS or not. It does have the tpms system for the vehicle however.
Plan on covering my tires as you do. Tires on RR are in good condition, maybe 10,000 miles on them if that. AS is brand new 2021 so tires are 0 miles. Bayou Biker suggested increasing rear tire pressure on TV by a few lbs. when towing.
Thanks again for your post.
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Old 05-09-2021, 09:50 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by mwodzinski View Post
My Range Rover (RR) has gone into “Reduced Performance Mode” three times. When this happens a warning appears on the dashboard. The vehicle is restricted to around 45 mph. This has happened only in stop & go traffic resulting from an accident on the highway. When I am towing and my nav system indicates slow traffic ahead, I start looking for an alternative route or pull off for a bite to eat. In general, I avoid rush hours in large cities. The funny thing is that my RR has no problems pulling my trailer up steep upgrades. As long as there is good airflow through the engine and transmission, there has been no problem.
Hi mwodzinski,
You can avoid going into "Reduced Performance Mode" by setting the Low mode when in stop & go traffic. Land Rover says "To avoid overheating the transmission, it is not advisable to tow heavy trailer loads at speeds of less than 20 mph (32 km/h) in high range. Select low range instead." Here's the link to Land Rover's documentation.
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Old 05-09-2021, 10:22 PM   #196
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We bought a new 2021 RR HSE Td6 a couple weeks ago. I just finished the engine break-in period and took it for a test tow from our house to the CAT Scale. I have to say that it tows pretty well compared to my 2012 GL450, but less so compared to the 2019 RAM 2500 that we traded in after just one year. 3/4 ton was too big for us. Does anyone here has experience setting up an equalizer hitch on a RR w/ 25FB. I am not having a luck finding the right setting that would get me comfortably below the GAVW for rear axle. I have an equalizer hitch. I am 40 lbs below rear GAVW now, with 8 washers and 3 notches on the L bracket. This setting may work, but with 3 notches on the L bracket, the setup makes a lot of noise while turning, it's annoying.
Also, can someone advise on using the WD hitch, the RR website says "The use of weight distribution hitches is not recommended. Using weight distribution hitches can potentially cause serious damage to the vehicle." What's the alternative? Are there any good hitches with just sway control without WD? 23FB maybe the only option to do it w/o WD while staying within the GAVW, but I would still need sway control.
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Old 05-10-2021, 06:20 AM   #197
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Equal-i-zer Noises

I have found that adding a small amount of grease to the friction areas will eliminate the noises. In my experience, after my Equal-i-zer hitch wore in and the paint was worn away in the friction areas, the grease did not reduce the anti-sway capabilities and it stopped the scrapping noises from the hitch. I use a thin film of waterproof grease used for swimming pools.

I also use the grease to coat the hitch ball. I cover the greased hitch ball with a hitch ball cover when unhitched from the trailer.

Some might think that the grease reduces the anti-sway function but there is so much force on those friction points that there is plenty of ant-sway damping even with a thin film of grease.

I have a 23FB and my Range Rover TD6 HSE cannot tow it without a weight distribution hitch. I get very dangerous sway without a WD hitch. My HSE has an anti-sway function that automatically hits the brakes once significant sway starts. This can be very abrupt that may catch tailgaters off guard. The Equal-i-zer WD hitch distributes more weight to the front wheels which greatly improves the driving performance.

Another option is to add a brake controller to the Range Rover. A common solution is to add a Tekonsha P3. My Range Rover dealer told me that a Ford F150 wiring harness can be used with a minor modification (I believe one pin needs to moved). A brake controller will allow the brake bias to be adjusted to add more braking to the trailer.

Even with a brake controller, I would still use a WD hitch. The Range Rover warning about WD hitch is nonsense. In general, European caravans have much lighter hitch tongue weights than US travel trailers.

You need to be careful when transitioning over “steep” driveways (i.e., an abrupt transition) - a large load is placed on the WD bars. Also be concerned about scrapping the rear of the Airstream.

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Old 05-10-2021, 07:01 AM   #198
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I was aware of the low gear function. It does have its limitations.

I use low gear to start off when in stop & go traffic. For extended stop & go situations, reduced performance mode is still triggered. Some Americans get impatient during large accidents creating “traffic slinkies” which has multiple slow and fast stretches. This puts a lot of heat into the Range Rover’s transmission. When I get into these situation I just pull behind a large truck since they are just as reluctant to shift through the gears as I am.

In really bad situations I just pull off the road and let my Range Rover take a rest.

Thanks for the feedback. Note that I have only had problems with “reduced performance mode” three times in towing over a one year period. It’s a pain and annoying but is manageable.

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Old 05-10-2021, 08:22 AM   #199
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Just returned from Florida to NY towing our 2021 23' Globetrotter with our 2008 Range Rover HSE. Round trip was 3,000 miles. The Rover performed incredibly well. Weight distribution system and sway bar is not recommended since it can create an issue with the Rover's air suspension system so I towed without it. Kept my speed between 60 to 65mph and when approached 70mph would experience so sway issue so had to back off on speed. If you have anymore questions or need more input don't hesitate to ask.
By the way the max. tow capacity on our Rover is 7700 lbs. with a tongue weight of 770. The 23' Globetrotter is the maximum size AS the Rover can handle.
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Old 05-10-2021, 09:15 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by mwodzinski View Post
I have a 23FB and my Range Rover TD6 HSE cannot tow it without a weight distribution hitch. I get very dangerous sway without a WD hitch. My HSE has an anti-sway function that automatically hits the brakes once significant sway starts. This can be very abrupt that may catch tailgaters off guard. The Equal-i-zer WD hitch distributes more weight to the front wheels which greatly improves the driving performance.

Another option is to add a brake controller to the Range Rover. A common solution is to add a Tekonsha P3. My Range Rover dealer told me that a Ford F150 wiring harness can be used with a minor modification (I believe one pin needs to moved). A brake controller will allow the brake bias to be adjusted to add more braking to the trailer.
- Mike
Thanks for the detailed reply. Do you mind sharing your numbers from the CAT Scale if you have those. It would be great if you could share before(just RR) and after(RR+AS w/Eual-i-zer). Also, what hole are you on the L Bracket, right now I am on the 4th hole from the top, so it's quite a bit of lift.
As for the brake controller, I have been using the Prodigy RF one, and it works great.
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