Towing with an electric vehicle cross country and back

[idoco]

Here's a quick post on our recent coast to coast trip with our Tesla Model X towing our Bowlus.

Teaser...we traveled five weeks and 7,000 miles cross country and back with our Model X towing our Bowlus. Total fuel costs...$0.

https://tinpoodle.blogspot.com/2022/...got-there.html


Boondocking outside the Grand Canyon

[pmclemore]

Long way from where I first saw you in Newfoundland. Glad to see you're still Bowlusing on.

Pat

[RickBullotta]

Originally Posted by idoco

Here's a quick post on our recent coast to coast trip with our Tesla Model X towing our Bowlus.

Teaser...we traveled five weeks and 7,000 miles cross country and back with our Model X towing our Bowlus. Total fuel costs...$0.

https://tinpoodle.blogspot.com/2022/...got-there.html

Why such a big difference in speeds between towing and not towing?

[idoco]

Originally Posted by RickBullotta

Why such a big difference in speeds between towing and not towing?

Not towing was a weekend, round trip from Flagstaff to LA. We were on a tight schedule so needed to make haste. We left the trailer in AZ with family for a few days.

As for speed while towing...sustained speed kills our range. If I have closely spaced charging I'll go faster and sacrifice range for speed. But if the supercharging is not as closely spaced, such as parts of the mountain west, I slow down a bit to conserve energy.

Also my personal preference is not to go over 65-67 while towing. No real reason. Just a comfort level and preference.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by idoco

.we traveled five weeks and 7,000 miles cross country and back with our Model X towing our Bowlus. Total fuel costs...$0.

I admire your courage in taking a EV cross country towing.
But I take exception with your claim of $0 fuel cost. Perhaps $0 fossil fuel cost, but certainly, the Tesla got it's power from somewhere, and unless you recharged with a solar panel, then you had fuel costs. Those power plants don't give it away, last time I looked at my electric bill.
(I see you have a deal with Tesla giving you unlimited free charging. However, that benefit was built into the cost of the Tesla and is unsustainable for the factory. As you mention, "Newer Model X's will pay $1200 for charging.)

Every day I see stories on two topics. First, "The power grid is over stressed, rolling blackouts coming this summer." and then, "Electric Vehicle sales at an all time high."

Food for thought.

[kscherzi]

I think somewhere Idoco said his Tesla is one of the grandfathered vehicles that qualify for free electricity at Tesla supercharger stations. This was a perk given to early adopters of Tesla vehicles that's since ended for subsequent purchasers. We can all agree that electricity isn't free but in this case Tesla is paying for it, not Idoco.

[57Vintage]

Great info, but I'm curious about miles per charging stop. Did you keep any details on that?

[idoco]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I admire your courage in taking a EV cross country towing.
But I take exception with your claim of $0 fuel cost. Perhaps $0 fossil fuel cost, but certainly, the Tesla got it's power from somewhere, and unless you recharged with a solar panel, then you had fuel costs. Those power plants don't give it away, last time I looked at my electric bill.
(I see you have a deal with Tesla giving you unlimited free charging. However, that benefit was built into the cost of the Tesla and is unsustainable for the factory. As you mention, "Newer Model X's will pay $1200 for charging.)...

We're pretty experienced traveling with the EV and trailer. Probably have over 20k+ miles towing, including three months in Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. So no courage needed. Although when we first started out four years ago...

I agree that EV fuel costs are not free. Someone is paying (luckily not me in this case). The bigger point, which you touch on and I mentioned, is that the cost of "fuel" would be ~40% of the same trip with a gas vehicle.

[idoco]

Originally Posted by 57Vintage

Great info, but I'm curious about miles per charging stop. Did you keep any details on that?

On our return trip we had ~2500 miles to cover and did it in five days. We started out mid morning and only drove during the daylight hours.

Most of our days were in the 450-500 mile range. The longest day we've done (not on this trip but another) was 600+ miles.

Miles between charging stops varies. On average we drive about 120 miles between stops. But the range is 80-160. Many factors play into this.

Did we charge at a campground overnight and start with a "full tank"? Or did we boondock?

Did we have coffee and breakfast before we left so can go for a while? Or are we stopping short because we need coffee and food more than a charge?

Are we crossing a mountain range and need to "top off"? Or is it downhill with a tail wind?

The point being...it varies...

[Mikemdd]

It looks like the math works out like this:

120 miles X 4 stops = 480 miles a day

480 miles/60 mph = 8 hours of DRIVING

Not sure how long to charge....maybe 1 hour or more? that would be 4+ more hours to charge

On a good day, you would on the road for 12 hours to go 480 miles, assuming charging stations were perfectly spaced. Hard to do much better I would think. Long days.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by idoco

On our return trip we had ~2500 miles to cover and did it in five days. We started out mid morning and only drove during the daylight hours.

Most of our days were in the 450-500 mile range. The longest day we've done (not on this trip but another) was 600+ miles.

Miles between charging stops varies. On average we drive about 120 miles between stops. But the range is 80-160. Many factors play into this.

Did we charge at a campground overnight and start with a "full tank"? Or did we boondock?

Did we have coffee and breakfast before we left so can go for a while? Or are we stopping short because we need coffee and food more than a charge?

Are we crossing a mountain range and need to "top off"? Or is it downhill with a tail wind?

The point being...it varies...

Impressive to see your post. The 80-160 range a big limiting factor for where we travel....heck, you can easily go that far between 2 cities just trying to get out of Texas, let alone trying to find a charge station along the route! How long did you have to wait at your charging stations each trip and I assume you may have planned your route around the need to stop and charge?

Will be interesting to see the new EV's from Ford, Rivian, and others towing a 25 or larger AS to get a sense of "reality" vs "optimism" . Reality being what the real limitations are compared to ICE towing today across country. But, glad there are some pioneers here to help.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

I think somewhere Idoco said his Tesla is one of the grandfathered vehicles that qualify for free electricity at Tesla supercharger stations. This was a perk given to early adopters of Tesla vehicles that's since ended for subsequent purchasers. We can all agree that electricity isn't free but in this case Tesla is paying for it, not Idoco.

Yes, I read that part. My point was that regardless if Tesla paid or the OP paid, it was not $0 for energy.
I don't think Tesla has ever made a profit, on paper, at least. It was an incentive to buy, much like Subaru offering 0% interest on a loan. I wouldn't claim it's free money.
When you're trying to convince people to buy EV's you can't claim power is free.
I happen to like Tesla and the EV revolution, I just think the hype is leading us down a path to rolling blackouts as EV units skyrocket and power plants stay the same or decrease as coal plants and nuclear are taken off line.
Also, do you think the cost of power will remain at $0.10/kwh as the demand and usage ramp up? I don't.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Yes, I read that part. My point was that regardless if Tesla paid or the OP paid, it was not $0 for energy.
I don't think Tesla has ever made a profit, on paper, at least. It was an incentive to buy, much like Subaru offering 0% interest on a loan. I wouldn't claim it's free money.
When you're trying to convince people to buy EV's you can't claim power is free.
I happen to like Tesla and the EV revolution, I just think the hype is leading us down a path to rolling blackouts as EV units skyrocket and power plants stay the same or decrease as coal plants and nuclear are taken off line.
Also, do you think the cost of power will remain at $0.10/kwh as the demand and usage ramp up? I don't.

I think the claim was no funds expended for fuel.

And if one has free lifetime charging, then no funds expended for electricity.

Not sure what Tesla's profitability has to do with this trip report. But for reference, they have been profitable since 2019, a little later if you exclude regulatory credits, and they reported $3.2 billion profit in Q1 2022

Power is unlikely to stay at $0.11 per kWh, but then fuel prices are unlikely to stay low as well.

[idoco]

Don't get me wrong. EV towing isn't for everyone at this point. For long trips it's not the same as ICE towing. Increased range and decreased stop frequency would be welcome.

But it is less expensive from a fueling standpoint. It has progressed over the last decade. And hopefully will continue to progress into the next decade.

[moosetags]

Thank you to the OP and others for this information. We were early adopters for the Rivian R1T pick-up truck. We have not gotten ours yet but are hoping to see it in our driveway in the foreseeable future.

We plan to tow Lucy (25FB) with the Rivian. We have been doing a lot of research on EV's generally and EV towing in particular. The Rivian will be our first EV, and we are looking forward to this new Airstreaming Adventure.

Our hope is to take factory Delivery of our Rivian in Normal, Illinois. We plan to take our Airstream and Diesel tow vehicle to get our Rivian. We we will then spend a week or so touring central Illinois. This will give us a chance to get used to the Rivian and break her in.

We will then hook Lucy to the Rivian and SuEllyn will tow her back while I follow in the Silverado.

We realize that there are downsides to EV towing but are ready for the challenge.

Brian

[vetman93]

Everything is better when it is free. In the long run, costs for EV's will come home to roost. If anyone thinks that there will be 100 percent EV's in the realm RV travel they are mistaken. While this is a virtuous adventure, it can be limited by route and charging availability. I don't think that you'll find many charging stations in West Texas in the near future. Electricity costs money. That is the reality. So does the disposal of all those lithium batteries that will plague our landfills.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by vetman93

So does the disposal of all those lithium batteries that will plague our landfills.

Why would we put lithium batteries in landfills? To keep all the used motor oil and lead acid batteries company? There are better alternatives.

https://electrek.co/2022/05/09/tesla...battery-packs/

[jcl]

Originally Posted by vetman93

In the long run, costs for EV's will come home to roost.

Absolutely agree. But I suggest that the true costs of fossil fuel vehicles will as well, and further, that EVs will continue to be cheaper to own and operate than ICE vehicles.

It is hard to argue with efficiency. An electric motor is over 90% efficient. An IC engine is closer to 30%. Electricity is cheaper and easier to produce, and cheaper to distribute.

[skyguyscott]

I believe in the long run, the cost of EVs will decline relative to inflation, simply due to supply and competition. If Thor is correct in it's vision of the E-stream and an all-electric RV (and that is a big if, especially when considering the high BTU requirements of heating) then the new RV of a decade or so hence will have no propane-powered appliances. I think we will see an ever-declining number of gas-powered tow vehicles, just as we saw an ever-declining number of horse/mule/oxen drawn wagons/trailers/carts a century ago. The number and availability of charging stations will increase, especially along the most traveled routes and in homes, the most common and often-used charging stations. And Li is far too valuable an element to bury in the ground. It will be recycled. Paradigm shifts are often hard to wrap one's mind around, especially if it is so long grounded in the previous paradigm. Humans are clever and industrious and constantly tinkering with ways to make things better and make more money.

[GOUSC]

To the OP,

Thanks for sharing you towing information. Like others have said, someone has to try this first and build on the information from there. I’m interested in your Bowles dry and loaded weight. My Globetrotter is 6,600 lbs dry and around 7,350 loaded. Where is your weight in comparison to that and, if lighter, would the heavier weight materially affect your towing specs?

Also, what is the battery life on your TV and what is the current cost for replacement?

I agree with others that nothing is really free and I’m not ready to take the plunge yet but the technology is interesting and am looking forward to how pioneers such as yourself are able to make this a viable alternative to the ICE.