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Old 07-16-2011, 07:24 AM   #61
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I love the idea of towing with a classic Caddy or even a comfy Lincoln...plenty of room in the trunk for the generator etc. Sadly, I think I need the ground clearance and pull of a 4x4 for what we have planned. Indeed, the main reason we bought the trailer was to be able to spend a big part of the summer in the middle of this property we bought last year. The nearest pavement is something like six or seven miles away over fairly good gravel road, but the last thousand feet is offroad, by automotive standards.
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Old 07-16-2011, 05:05 PM   #62
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Was anything 70's and earlier "rated " for towing?


Had a Grand Wagoneer, worstest toe'r ever.
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Old 07-16-2011, 05:13 PM   #63
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Oh, we seem to have survived the 70's without ratings on everything that moved, and the TSA to feel us up when we flew. With all the quality control changes in the past 20 years, the ISO standards, competitive market pressures, improvements in manufacturing standards.....am I the only one who is starting to think the whole world has somehow become incompetent?

I grew up in a family that travelled around north america with a land seismic crew. The families travelling with that crew were all living in house trailers. I remember what a big deal it was when Hurricane Carla totalled our trailer in 61, and the insurance bought us a new 55x10!!! My brother and i got our own bedroom, and our two sisters got their own bedroom, too! Before that, it was four of us in two bunk beds in one room. A front bedroom, come to think of it.

I bet those trucks my dad used to tow his house trailer from Texas to Sasketchewan, from North Dakota to Wyoming, to Colorado.....

wasn't rated by anyone to tow anything at all. Good thing nobody told him.

Was that Wally guy's vehicle rated?
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Old 07-16-2011, 06:38 PM   #64
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With all the quality control changes in the past 20 years, the ISO standards, competitive market pressures, improvements in manufacturing standards.....am I the only one who is starting to think the whole world has somehow become incompetent?
Or maybe the world has grown too competent - with very high demands in everything we buy and build and do. Not many things are "good enough" anymore.

Mind you, I'm not complaining about owning cars that don't need anything beyond oil changes for 100k or airlines that go years without a fatality...

Tom
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Old 07-17-2011, 01:03 AM   #65
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It was all a evolution. Required the computer age too accomplish what couldn't be done mechanically. All the sensors and then the metallurgy in the new frames and skins. The new cars have to be fixed in a well equipped body shop with the high strength light weight steel that will be destroyed of a torch is used on it.

I am sure we will be heavily into carbon fibers skins in a few years as we go for the higher MPG requirements. I did a start up on three carbon fiber manufacturing lines. They were making fiber to manufacture interior car parts in Europe.
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Old 07-17-2011, 07:17 AM   #66
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TOO competent? I am having a totally different experience. I think I must be turning into one of those cranky old farts or something, but I am finding people in general are far less competent in their occupations than they were thirty years ago. I am absolutely sure that I got a far better education, for example, in the Texas public school system than any of our five sons have gotten in a combination of Massachusetts and New Jersey schools. These days, all a kid needs to do is show up for the minimum legal number of days, and he graduates feeling good about himself.

He can't work a simple ratio problem with a pencil and paper, but his telephone will do it for him. A telephone designed and built on the other side of the world, mind you.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:48 AM   #67
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TOO competent? I am having a totally different experience. I think I must be turning into one of those cranky old farts or something, but I am finding people in general are far less competent in their occupations than they were thirty years ago.
Ah - you're talking about people, I'm talking about things. I agree with you - too many distractions/busywork/paperwork under the auspices of "quality control" cuts into people's ability or desire to do their primary job.

But we're veering from the original thread...

Tom
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Old 07-17-2011, 10:22 AM   #68
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I blame it all on video games and cell phones.
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Old 07-17-2011, 10:22 AM   #69
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Veer here....thats what we do best!!!

Especially without sway stuff, we back on track yet?
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Old 07-17-2011, 11:00 AM   #70
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I blame it all on video games and cell phones.
And TV. A nation in its third generation of believing TV a norm; constantly on and never questioned (what other industry had governmental coupons to offset the individual purchase of new technology [analog to digital]?) Americans can neither read nor write with any measured fluency any longer. Ergo, can not think. F-e-e-l-i-n-g-s are the only thing that matters. A nation of 12-year olds. The perverse "pride" of never reading the instructions is the result.

Was anything 70's and earlier "rated " for towing?

Yes, from the mid-1960's onward; by the manufacturer. Regularly exceeded, often quite well.

SAE J2807 has big holes in it. Propaganda. The belief that an open-deck construction trailer with some concrete blocks on it properly represents a TT or 5'er is bunk. To some degree all tow "ratings" are bunk. They pre-suppose a set of assertions. Which may not apply in all situations. A guy moving his household with an old small car (foreclosed, jobless) across the state needs more than this to ascertain a reasonable ability. He'll do it anyway, is the problem. His being able to do it well is the heart of the problem. Captive engineers working for a cartel that in turn dominates the "regulatory" governmental agency means that there is no disinterested party weighing in on what a vehicle can do and cannot do. Many avenues foreclosed by default. In the name of dollars (truly, the American Way).

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Old 07-17-2011, 06:37 PM   #71
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We know an 18 year old who just took his GED exam to get his high school requirement behind him. We asked him how he did, and he was astounded at how easy it was. He said one of the hardest math questions on it was a simple x,y graph, and no data of any kind. The instructions were to place a single point on the graph to complete a square.

I seem to recall having to solve a few equations, with a pencil and slide rule, and then plot a number of points on a graph.

Our future is in serious trouble.
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Old 07-18-2011, 09:41 AM   #72
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TOO competent? I am having a totally different experience. I think I must be turning into one of those cranky old farts or something, but I am finding people in general are far less competent in their occupations than they were thirty years ago. I am absolutely sure that I got a far better education, for example, in the Texas public school system than any of our five sons have gotten in a combination of Massachusetts and New Jersey schools. These days, all a kid needs to do is show up for the minimum legal number of days, and he graduates feeling good about himself.

He can't work a simple ratio problem with a pencil and paper, but his telephone will do it for him. A telephone designed and built on the other side of the world, mind you.
Well since everyone here is being quick to blame it on something else, I would like to play Devil's Advocate and blame it on ourselves. Could it not be that it is the fault of the previous generation for not providing better values and character development to today's children? Everyone always talks about how they were shaped by their parents, and how if it wasn't for their father/mother they would have been lost in life, yada, yada, yada. However in today's day and age, we let ourselves become distracted and absorbed into the fancy technology of television. How much time of the day did everyone let their children watch TV on average, how much time on videogames? When were they allowed to buy cellphones? How much did everyone work while they were growing up?

We are all addicts to our jobs, and we all end up getting sucked in to an unhealthy level in one way or another, but to me, it is still our faults. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

Then again, I'm not reminiscing about the good ol' days because I actually like the modern world, but I'm just playing the debate.
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:34 AM   #73
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Attention deficit disorder seems to be running rampant as well.

Cheers!
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:45 AM   #74
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Tow vehicle liability coverage

You might want to check out the case law in your state and with your insurance company if you modify the vehicle or its accessories (i.e. hitch equipment) or intentionally exceed any recommended vehicle specs.

I believe you will find in most states that you are on your own if you cause harm to yourself or others.

Not an advocate of torts one way or the other, but thats just the way it is.
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:41 AM   #75
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Are there still some conceivable laws governing every aspect of living in the USA that haven't been passed yet?
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:21 AM   #76
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I miss the 70's.....haven't quite been "myself" since K.C. & the Sunshine Band broke up.
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:50 PM   #77
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i hear ya. I don't think life has been the same since Roy Orbison died.
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:04 PM   #78
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You might want to check out the case law in your state and with your insurance company if you modify the vehicle or its accessories (i.e. hitch equipment) or intentionally exceed any recommended vehicle specs.

I believe you will find in most states that you are on your own if you cause harm to yourself or others.
Here's my take on the legal issues:

- Tow ratings aren't legal standards. They're suggestions from the manufacturers. The government has nothing to do with them.

- If I crash and cause an injury, something bad happened to cause that. I'd be in trouble due to the root cause of the crash, nevermind the hitch.

- If I break the law (say I was speeding) and crashed, my insurance company pays out. They might not renew me, but they pay out. So if I crash with towing a trailer with a Jetta, which isn't even technically breaking the law, they should still pay.

Last time I read my auto policy, there wasn't any provision saying that if I tow an overweight trailer or modify my car, I'm not covered. Those modifications might not be covered (they don't pay to replace snazzy $2000 aftermarket wheels unless I get a rider), but my liability coverage isn't cancelled. Also there are personal umbrella liability policies that add more coverage.

Tom
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:32 PM   #79
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There's always a self-appointed lawyer in the discussion to remind us not to do anything outside the box.

I like my Jetta TDI manual trans and wish we had it on the long stays away from home. It's stability and torque are impressive, and it's aerodynamic and relatively light weight.

The question I have is, would the gearboxes hold up over the long-term, such as described in the opening post?

doug k
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:35 PM   #80
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and does hanging fuzzy dice from the rearview mirror constitute an unapproved aftermarket add-on that invalidates your liability insurance by obstructing your view out the front?
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