Towing Vehicle for 28-30' Airstream

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by andreasduess

Different opinion: I believe that many people go for a larger truck simply because that makes them feel safer

Utter nonsense. It's obvious from multiple postings around here that people pick larger trucks for pulling power and stopping power. Common themes include "exhaust brake" and how well a "diesel" pulls up hills compared to gas engines. But you go ahead and make a straw man case against rational decisions because you don't have a real argument.

Originally Posted by andreasduess

reality is that a smaller vehicle with a lower centre of gravity and a wider wheel stance often outperforms the bigger truck when it cames to the important stuff, like handling.

And Leprechauns are real.

[DPRoberts]

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

Utter nonsense. It's obvious from multiple postings around here that people pick larger trucks for pulling power and stopping power. Common themes include "exhaust brake" and how well a "diesel" pulls up hills compared to gas engines. But you go ahead and make a straw man case against rational decisions because you don't have a real argument.




And Leprechauns are real.

I don't understand the "handling" argument, or the idea that taller 3/4 ton trucks are more prone to rolling over.

Yes, taller trucks have a higher center of gravity. However, as the NHTSA website points out, tall vehicles only roll over when people swerve too quickly when making emergency maneuvers - in other words, when "handling."

Personally, I've never cared about any of that stuff. I drive regular cars that don't "handle" like sports cars. I drive slowly, under the speed limit. Most importantly, I leave PLENTY of room between myself and the car in front of me - enough so that if something does happen, I have room to stop.

That sort of defensive driving has worked very well for me over several decades and hundreds of thousands of miles, and that's in a regular car. I cannot see how hitching up several thousands of pounds worth of trailer would make me want to worry MORE about handling and emergency maneuvers. Instead, I'd prefer to get a big truck with good brakes, and drive as safely as I can.

In an emergency, I'd rather care about how far away the other cars are, how fast I'm going, etc. rather than wonder whether my enormous towed rig can slalom through all the cars I'm about to hit.

The best way to avoid an accident is to not be in it in the first place.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by DPRoberts

I don't understand the "handling" argument, or the idea that taller 3/4 ton trucks are more prone to rolling over.

Yes, taller trucks have a higher center of gravity. However, as the NHTSA website points out, tall vehicles only roll over when people swerve too quickly when making emergency maneuvers - in other words, when "handling."

Personally, I've never cared about any of that stuff. I drive regular cars that don't "handle" like sports cars. I drive slowly, under the speed limit. Most importantly, I leave PLENTY of room between myself and the car in front of me - enough so that if something does happen, I have room to stop.

That sort of defensive driving has worked very well for me over several decades and hundreds of thousands of miles, and that's in a regular car. I cannot see how hitching up several thousands of pounds worth of trailer would make me want to worry MORE about handling and emergency maneuvers. Instead, I'd prefer to get a big truck with good brakes, drive as safely as I can. If you drive safely, you don't need handling.

Per NHTSA, while rollover accidents are very dangerous, they are also very rare (only 2.1% of all accidents). If you avoid speeding, fasten your seat belt, and not use alcohol, the chance of rollover fatality is very, very low. It certainly does not warrant avoiding a whole class of vehicles (pickups) or delegating towing duties to sedans/minivans.

[joshjack]

Wanted to get a nice, long lasting truck before we even thought about an airstream and I bought a Ram 2500 Megacab 4x4 6.7 Cummins diesel. It's been an extremely comfortable truck, and we took it on a lot of long road trips before getting our AS and it was fantastic.

Now that I'm pulling a 30' AS, I don't even have to worry about it. I've got plenty of excess payload, plenty of stopping power; the factory exhaust brake does wonders coming down out of the mountains; the interior is comfortable and seems to be holding up well after 2 years.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

Utter nonsense. It's obvious from multiple postings around here that people pick larger trucks for pulling power and stopping power. Common themes include "exhaust brake" and how well a "diesel" pulls up hills compared to gas engines. But you go ahead and make a straw man case against rational decisions because you don't have a real argument.

And Leprechauns are real.

Your opinion would carry more weight if you knew how to spell "garbage"!

Some people like trucks and some don't and that should be fine. To state that his opinion is utter nonsense is being an ....... (I'm trying to be nice).

How many people in the 70's towed an AS with a pick up??? Almost none, as pick ups were too bloody uncomfortable, couldn't carry more than three passengers and had a terrible ride.....so what did people use to tow Airstream trailers back in the day???? Station wagons, not trucks!!! Modern day SUV's and some vans are as heavy and more powerful than a mid seventies Caprice Classic station wagon that weighed 4900 lbs, with 454 that had only 215 hp. My 2012 Honda Pilot weighs 4600 and has 250 hp.

A VW Tourareg V10 diesel is a monster of a TV and will out drag, pull, your precious F250 Powerstroke or Denali 2500 Duramax in a heartbeat and do it with better handling and brakes.....I have the proof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k62gW3Se5e0

Cheers
Tony

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Your opinion would carry more weight if you knew how to spell "garbage"!

Some people like trucks and some don't and that should be fine. To state that his opinion is utter nonsense is being an ....... (I'm trying to be nice).

Nice catch. It's still a crap comment. And my statement stands, you can't just dump everyone into the "they want to feel safe" category. Um, no. I'm not a soccer mom.

No need to be nice, my emotional state isn't tied to what people say on the internet. Yours however, I wonder. Why not use some more exclamation points. !!!!!!! STATION WAGONS !!!!!

a monster of a TV and will out drag, pull, your precious F250 Powerstroke or Denali 2500 Duramax in a heartbeat and do it with better handling and brakes.....I have the proof!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Oh, ok we're in first grade! Yea, well my dad can beat up your dad, so

Also



I can make half baked arguments too.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by andreasduess

Different opinion: I believe that many people go for a larger truck simply because that makes them feel safer -

Define safer. My V10 diesel Touareg had great torque, pulling power, better brakes and handling than most trucks. But once you drop a loaded trailer bigger than a 23', you can run out of payload real fast.

I believe catamarans have better displacement (payload) than monohulls, no?

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

Utter nonsense. It's obvious from multiple postings around here that people pick larger trucks for pulling power and stopping power. Common themes include "exhaust brake" and how well a "diesel" pulls up hills compared to gas engines. But you go ahead and make a straw man case against rational decisions because you don't have a real argument.




And Leprechauns are real.

If you would go through the trouble of measuring engine power output under load when towing, as I have done, you'd find that power is really a non issue under most conditions. I could not get output above 100hp, and I tried really hard. Torque is a different animal of course, but around the 350 to 400 mark that too becomes irrelevant.

Stopping power? If you think that a truck will stop quicker than a van or SUV then you're kidding yourself, the numbers say differently and are well publicized.

It's worth repeating:

Those who tow with smaller tow vehicles, vans and SUVs: "It works great, no problems to report."

Those who don't: "You must be wrong, it can't be so."

Reminds me of a friend who, after crossing the Atlantic in a 36' boat, had a long lecture from a guy at a Florida marina who told him all the reasons why such a feat was absolutely impossible in any boat below 48' equipped with sonar, radar, water makers, fuel polishers and redundant sets of electronics.

My friend politely informed him that he was on his way to Panama, and from there on to the South Pacific. He's currently in New Zealand for the summer in the Southern Hemisphere, whereas Mr. Know-it-all is no doubt still lecturing people in the marina.

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by mojo

Define safer. My V10 diesel Touareg had great torque, pulling power, better brakes and handling than most trucks. But once you drop a loaded trailer bigger than a 23', you can run out of payload real fast.

I believe catamarans have better displacement (payload) than monohulls, no?

No, cats are really sensitive to weight. Because the hulls don't have much in the way of displacement, they don't like being loaded. You'll find many a monohull, my own included, with beautiful teak soles and lovely woodwork, but cats are typically veneer on lighter materials. Monohull sailboats carry thousands of pounds of ballast on the keel, so weight tends to be a non issue. Cats don't.

An overloaded cat is dangerous and prone to pitch poling, which can happen when one of the hulls punches into an oncoming wave because it doesn't have the available lift to raise itself. When that starts to happen, all bets are off.

Don't get me wrong, I like cat sailing. It's relaxing, and a cat in the right hands is extremely safe and can be considerably faster than a monohull in the same conditions. I am currently trying to convince my wife to charter a cat, so we can see if one would fit our family.

The big difference between cats and monos is best expressed like this: on a monohull you typically reef to the strength of the gusts, while on a multihull you reef to the strength of the lulls.

Most catamarans are just as happy with reduced sail and you will be surprised how little speed you really lose with less sail. Slow down to a more moderate speed. Think of it as similar to slowing down your car when you come to a rough road by shifting into a lower gear for more control.

[james.mileur]

Originally Posted by joshjack

Wanted to get a nice, long lasting truck before we even thought about an airstream and I bought a Ram 2500 Megacab 4x4 6.7 Cummins diesel. It's been an extremely comfortable truck, and we took it on a lot of long road trips before getting our AS and it was fantastic.

Now that I'm pulling a 30' AS, I don't even have to worry about it. I've got plenty of excess payload, plenty of stopping power; the factory exhaust brake does wonders coming down out of the mountains; the interior is comfortable and seems to be holding up well after 2 years.

The only difference from 2500 to 3500 is rear coil springs to leaf, for > 2 tons of payload. The RAM factory brake controller stops the trailer/truck almost better than when not towing, and you will never lack for power or payload. The Megacab back seats fold flat for kid camping spot or lots of in cab storage. Sweet ride from RAM. Great TV for the Classic. It was what was available on the lot when we went to shop, a great deal, and it was done. We had almost bought three F-150's, moved up to an F-250, were already looking at F-350's for the payload, then the RV guy said, might as well buy RAM. Never looked back. With a ProPride, you will have to look in the mirror to remember there is a trailer back there. Happy days.

[dkottum]

It's a good idea to read your Airstream Owners Manual about using your Airstream. This is from the 2016 Flying Cloud Owners Manual, Section 7, Towing

Tow Vehicle

When buying a new vehicle to tow your trailer, we suggest including towing options offered by most tow vehicle manufacturers. These include such things as a heavy-duty alternator and radiator, heavy-duty springs and shock absorbers, transmission cooler, heavy-duty fan and asher unit, etc., for the make of the vehicle.

WARNING
Springs that are too stiff can hinder the action of the weight equalizing hitch and prevent the transfer of weight to the front of the vehicle.

NOTE
Only use springs heavy enough to support your loaded vehicle (not including trailer). Having a too harsh spring rate on your tow vehicle will only shorten the life of the tow vehicle and trailer, and will cause your trips to be less enjoyable.

Transmissions may be manual or automatic, but an automatic transmission may prolong your tow vehicle’s life and generally does a better job of controlling engine loads than does the average driver using a manual shift

Having adequate power is very important when considering the purchase of a new vehicle or the trailer-towing capability of your present one. Auto dealers are provided with guidelines to use when helping a customer decide on a tow vehicle. Guidelines are not determined solely by the power output of the engine. The gear ratio of the differential is also a very important part of the guideline.

Inspect the tow vehicle’s hitch regularly for loose bolts or nuts, cracked welds, loose ball mounts, worn parts, etc.

New trailerists often carry more food and other supplies than really needed. Remember that every item you take along is one more thing to stow and adds weight to the total load you must pull. Consolidate items in shelves, lockers, and in the refrigerator. It is better to have one full and one empty locker, than two half empty ones. Special care must be taken not to overload the front and rear ends of the trailer.

[james.mileur]

Here's a thought; keep or buy your 90% vehicle and outsource the 10%. Then while parked, you get to drive your "100%" vehicle.

[james.mileur]

Originally Posted by james.mileur

Here's a thought; keep or buy your 90% vehicle and outsource the 10%. Then while parked, you get to drive your "100%" vehicle.

Sorry, got off the thread where I wanted to share this idea.

Anybody out there outsource their towing?

[xrvr]

First of all you must be Canadian...........

[rostam]

Originally Posted by andreasduess

If you would go through the trouble of measuring engine power output under load when towing, as I have done, you'd find that power is really a non issue under most conditions. I could not get output above 100hp, and I tried really hard. Torque is a different animal of course, but around the 350 to 400 mark that too becomes irrelevant.

Stopping power? If you think that a truck will stop quicker than a van or SUV then you're kidding yourself, the numbers say differently and are well publicized.

It's worth repeating:

Those who tow with smaller tow vehicles, vans and SUVs: "It works great, no problems to report."

Those who don't: "You must be wrong, it can't be so."

Reminds me of a friend who, after crossing the Atlantic in a 36' boat, had a long lecture from a guy at a Florida marina who told him all the reasons why such a feat was absolutely impossible in any boat below 48' equipped with sonar, radar, water makers, fuel polishers and redundant sets of electronics.

My friend politely informed him that he was on his way to Panama, and from there on to the South Pacific. He's currently in New Zealand for the summer in the Southern Hemisphere, whereas Mr. Know-it-all is no doubt still lecturing people in the marina.

I own a 26' Avion. Travel ready, weighs 6000#. Where I live (Appalachian), I have to travel local roads to get to interstates. Going north, west, or south, I need to go up and down 10% grades that are several miles long. In summer temperature rises to mid 90's here. My light duty German diesel SUV produces twice as much torque as your Honda minivan (and is rated to tow 7500#), has huge brakes, and my trailer is at least 1500# lighter than your 34. There is NO FREAKING WAY a minivan could go up and down these grades safely (or on a continuous basis). Thats a pipe dream. If you live in an area that is flat and cool, then, yes, you could spend money to modify your minivan, spend more money on the most complex hitch, and it works for that terrain only. Most people do not live in flat cool southern Ontario though. Bring your setup to a challenging terrain, will separate men from boys. You realize tow ratings do mean something. Your repeated posts on this topic without providing the full picture is misleading.

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by rostam

I own a 26' Avion. Travel ready, weighs 6000#. Where I live (Appalachian), I have to travel local roads to get to interstates. Going north, west, or south, I need to go up and down 10% grades that are several miles long. In summer temperature rises to mid 90's here. My light duty German diesel SUV produces twice as much torque as your Honda minivan (and is rated to tow 7500#), has huge brakes, and my trailer is at least 1500# lighter than your 34. There is NO FREAKING WAY a minivan could go up and down these grades safely (or on a continuous basis). Thats a pipe dream. If you live in an area that is flat and cool, then, yes, you could spend money to modify your minivan, spend more money on the most complex hitch, and it works for that terrain only. Most people do not live in flat cool southern Ontario though. Bring your setup to a challenging terrain, will separate men from boys. You realize tow ratings do mean something. Your repeated posts on this topic without providing the full picture is misleading.

Such passion.

There are ample examples out there of drivers who have towed their rig for years, across the entire continent and up to Alaska with vans. Some of them have even posted here on this forum.

An example is the Verrall family - they're towing their 28' AS all over the country, using a Toyota van as tow vehicle. East Coast, California, across the Rockies, everywhere. Their Instagram account is now set to private because they got sick of the trolling, but here's a capture of a recent route:



This isn't misleading, this is reality. It's happening. Unless you've tried it yourself, perhaps it would be a good idea to stop telling the people who are actually doing it what can and cannot be done.

Otherwise, you end up exactly like that guy on the dock, who told a sailor on a circumnavigation that what he was doing was simply impossible. He stayed on the dock. My friend sailed on.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by andreasduess

Such passion.

There are ample examples out there of drivers who have towed their rig for years, across the entire continent and up to Alaska with vans. Some of them have even posted here on this forum.

An example is the Verrall family - they're towing their 28' AS all over the country, using a Toyota van as tow vehicle. East Coast, California, across the Rockies, everywhere. Their Instagram account is now set to private because they got sick of the trolling, but here's a capture of a recent route:



This isn't misleading, this is reality. It's happening. Unless you've tried it yourself, perhaps it would be a good idea to stop telling the people who are actually doing it what can and cannot be done.

Otherwise, you end up exactly like that guy on the dock, who told a sailor on a circumnavigation that what he was doing was simply impossible. He stayed on the dock. My friend sailed on.

Hmm, second hand anecdotal evidence. Not very confidence inspiring. I am assuming that you do not have any first hand experience going up and down a serious grade in scorching heat of the summer. When you do, you will realize that the tow ratings are meaningful and exist for a reason. Good luck!

[SCOTTinNJ]

When I was looking at my first Airstream (20' - 23') I owned a brand new Honda Odyssey and considered towing with it. After speaking with Andy in Canada and really looking at the numbers, I decided that there was a big difference between KNOWING I was safe and HOPING I was safe.

I traded the Odyssey for a half-ton, bought a 25' trailer, and couldn't have been happier with its performance. I'm now towing a 30' with the same half-ton, and it still works for my one to two week trips on the east coast. If I ever needed to load heavier there is no doubt I'd be looking for a 3/4 or 1 ton tow vehicle.

[the frog]

So tired of all the bickering but here is my opinion.
I'm just a old wore out hillbilly,truck driver, of over 30 years, and a few million safe driving miles, so take it for what it's worth.
Hauled new cars, when I started it was 5 on a truck, later up to 11.
There are so many on here that are so much smarter than me, I could care less about all those numbers they testify to. Its about you, and the public, being safe, feeling safe and also being considerate of others.
Spent probably the first 20 years in trucks that were to little for the job, never enough power, no jake brake, ect.
When we finally did get trucks with jake brakes and enough power to pull the load it became a different job. Didn't have to go up hills with the flashers on and could go down without looking in the mirror to see if there was smoke coming off the brakes any more. The jake brake was turned on as soon as the truck was put in gear and never turned off, no matter if in the mountains or on flat land or in the cities.
All that said, you can ''get by'' with lesser tow vehicles, with all those numbers they talk about. They might get you by if that is all what you are after, getting by.
Personally I want a truck that does the job without over working it, I would not want to pull a trailer without a ''exaust brake'' I would have one on our car if I could. I like mirrors you can see out of, I like sitting up, I like having the power to work with the traffic.
Get the best you can afford, make it enjoyable.
You probably cant get to big but it is easy to get to small...

[SCOTTinNJ]

Amen