Towing an Airstream with a Highlander Hybrid

[ljmiii]

Last weekend we look our maiden voyage with our 2006 Highlander Hybrid Limited towing our new 16' Quiksilver Airstream. We went to Hershey, PA (about 200 miles each way) and I am happy to say that the trip went very smoothly and a good time was had by all - myself, my wife, and our two young children. The HiHy got about 17 MPG - not as good as our normal 25 MPG, but much better than the 10 MPG we got earlier pulling the Airstream with my parents borrowed Jeep Commander.

For those contemplating using their HiHy to pull a travel trailer I offer the following based on our experiences...
0. It will take longer than you think to gather the necessary parts and install them.
1. Get a Class III Hitch Reciever designed for a Weight Distributing hitch (e.g. Valley)
2. Install a 7-pin connector on the HiHy. You will need:
....a. Either the drawtite HiHy wiring harness (#18248) or a pair of Toyota parts
....b. A 4 pin to 7 pin adapter
....c. A good quality brake controller (eg tokonsha prodigy)
....d. A connection to the brake control wire in the drivers side door sill since the HiHy doesn't have a brake controller plug.
Unfortunately, this is not as straightforward as one might hope. Because of the brake controller issue I ended up having Hecht Trailers do the installation.
3. Get a good quality WD hitch with sway control (e.g. Equal-i-zer)

And for those contemplating a 16' Airstream...

You will need to pay close attention to the tongue weight. Loaded with cargo distributed equally and with a normal start of trip setup - full LP and fresh water, empty black/grey tanks - the Airstream can easily exceed 600 lbs of tongue weight. And so...

4. Pack heavy in the back (e.g. tools) and light in the front (e.g. toilet paper)
5. When not boondocking, travel without fresh water. 23 gals of water weighs almost 200 lbs.
6. Get a custom mattress for the rear bed. We chose a tempur-pedic custom cut for the Airstream by Savvy Sleeper. It is much more comfortable than the standard issue mattress and the extra weight in the rear helps.

We ended up just under 400lbs of tongue weight and 3500lbs of total weight - 11.4%, close to ideal.

The Highlander Hybrid is a GREAT tow vehicle. The electric motors can provide max torque at any speed which allows for very smooth starts. The towing MPG can't be beat. And when we unhook, we have a 7 passenger vehicle that gets 25 MPG that we can drive easily on the smallest village or city street.

The 16' Quiksilver Airstream is a GREAT travel trailer. It is very easy to tow, you can park the tow vehicle and trailer in a 'normal' supermarket double space, and you can even make U-turns if you have to. Assuming you just want a place to sleep and have breakfast, it is very comfortable for a family with small children. And as my wife says, it is cute as a button.

[ankornuta]

Interesting! What's the maximum weight that the HiHy can tow? 17mpg is about the big full size diesel trucks get, isn't it?

[2airishuman]

hi ljmiii and welcome to airstream'n

it's always fun to read post from folks who have worked out the details...

of towing with a less conventional rig....

your process seems reasonable and

the satisfaction is obvious...

that will help others who r...

trying 2 do the same.

and i like that picture of the happy couple in front of bambi!

please share more pics and stores of airstream adventures...

i'll bet no ones asks you...
"does that thing have a hemi?"

cheers
2air'

[moosetags]

Congrats on your maiden voyage. Hopefully the first of many.

[ljmiii]

Originally Posted by ankornuta

Interesting! What's the maximum weight that the HiHy can tow? 17mpg is about the big full size diesel trucks get, isn't it?

3500lbs (the same as the 16' Bambi's GVWR).

I was a little worried given all I've read about only using 80% of your tow vehicle's capacity, 'white knuckle driving', and such...but the Highlander Hybrid/Bambi combo was really very pleasant to drive. And even during the 'worst case scenario' usually given - a big rig blowing by me on a downhill - there was no trailer sway...just the usual pull left/push right I feel when I'm not towing a trailer.

[Minnie's Mate]

I had been planning to post an inquiry to see if anyone was towing with a hybrid yet...I was thinking hybrid Tahoe or Surburban, but now I don't have to to know that if you stay within its limits it can be done satisfactorily.

[crazylev]

Originally Posted by ljmiii

You will need to pay close attention to the tongue weight. Loaded with cargo distributed equally and with a normal start of trip setup - full LP and fresh water, empty black/grey tanks - the Airstream can easily exceed 600 lbs of tongue weight. And so...

4. Pack heavy in the back (e.g. tools) and light in the front (e.g. toilet paper)
5. When not boondocking, travel without fresh water. 23 gals of water weighs almost 200 lbs.
6. Get a custom mattress for the rear bed. We chose a tempur-pedic custom cut for the Airstream by Savvy Sleeper. It is much more comfortable than the standard issue mattress and the extra weight in the rear helps.

ljmiii,

I was always under the impression that even though it seems to make sense to keep heavier stuff in the back of the trailer, the best place for the heavy stuff would be just in front of the rear axle on the tow vehicle. For a while I thought that if I could put more weight in the backend of the trailer, that would off-set the weight on the tongue somewhat. Alas what I was thinking was not a safe alternative. Someone hear can maybe clear this up.

Be safe.

Jonathan

[Minnie's Mate]

Too much weight in the rear can indeed be unsafe as it will increase the risk of sway. I once towed a U-haul trailer (I think it was the longest single axle avaiable) with an S-10 and put the washer and dryer on last. Any speed over 40 MPH resulted in uncontrolable sway. Try a 400 mile trip with that going on. Not fun. I am convinced that had the washer and dryer gone on first this would not have occurred. BTW, there was no other furniture on board, just clothes and other accessories.

[nickcrowhurst]

This is discussed here:
http://www.airforums.com/forum...ear-27604.html
And, no, I wouldn't put anything heavy at the back of a trailer to reduce the tongue weight. The thread explains why.
Nick.

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by nickcrowhurst

This is discussed here:
http://www.airforums.com/forum...ear-27604.html
And, no, I wouldn't put anything heavy at the back of a trailer to reduce the tongue weight. The thread explains why.
Nick.

I was in college when I did it.

[Fyrzowt]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

I was in college when I did it.

Then I guess we'll let you off the hook...

[ljmiii]

Originally Posted by crazylev

I was always under the impression that even though it seems to make sense to keep heavier stuff in the back of the trailer, the best place for the heavy stuff would be just in front of the rear axle on the tow vehicle....
Jonathan

Depending on the authority you believe, the ideal tongue weight is 10-12% or 10-15% of the overall weight of the trailer. As another poster mentioned, in an empty U-haul trailer it is indeed dangerous to put all the weight in the back because you can get much lower percentages...even a negative tongue weight if someone loads all the stuff in the trailer next to the rear cargo door.

However, owners of the new 16' Bambis have the opposite problem. With full LP and fresh water tank and an empty grey/black water tank the Bambi's tongue weight can exceed 20%. And so the challenge is to increase stability by redistributing the weight off the tongue.

Or to put it another way, Airstream has already put most of the 16' Bambi's 3000 lbs of 'heavy stuff' - the frame, the refer, the water system - in front of the rear axle. The challenge is to redistribute your 100 or 200 or maybe even 300 lbs of cargo to reduce the 16' Bambi's tongue heavy bias.

[ljmiii]

Originally Posted by nickcrowhurst

This is discussed here:
http://www.airforums.com/forum...ear-27604.html
Nick.

While the thread veered a bit off topic (as fyrzowt mentioned) your post is interesting and informed.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to address the problem faced by a 16' Bambi owner

Originally Posted by nickcrowhurst

The original post talks of placing items to the rear of the axle to lessen the tongue weight. I would never do this, but I would happily move items within the area in front of the axle to achieve the correct tongue weight.

Unfortunately, no amount of shifting of items in front of the axle will achieve the correct tongue weight because the Bambi's tongue weight starts out too high, not too low. To borrow from your analogy, I already have two grandkids sitting on my frame about eight feet in front of my axle - my LP tanks. They (and my battery and my hitch and my frame) are at the end of a long moment arm forward of the axle that wants to move my hitch around. And so the question is how can I redistribute my cargo weight to minimize their effect. My answer is to not add to the problem by putting weight forward of the axle but to instead park a pair of grandkids about 3-4 ft aft of the axle - on my bed and rear cargo space.

That said, you could argue that the axle pivot matters less than the hitch pivot. And certainly the 120 lbs or so that I place 12-13 ft off that pivot is worse than placing them 8-9 ft off the hitch pivot. But 120 lbs at an extra 4 ft isn't going to make much difference in a 3000 lb system already centered about 10 ft off the hitch. Certainly not enough difference to justify worsening the hitch weight situation.

To borrow your misquote, the price of freedom IS eternal vigilance. 'Never add weight to the rear of a trailer' is a good rule of thumb...but it is just that. And rules of thumb are no substitute for careful measurement and calculation.

All that said, my guess is that given the target market for 16' foot Bambis, Airstream intentionally made it 'idiot-proof' by distributing the weight forward. No matter how you load a Bambi (unless you carry ingots under the bed) you can't get the tongue weight under 10%. And the danger from the instabilities introduced by a 20% tongue weight pales in comparison to that from having your Bambi sway back and forth until you see it swing past you on the left.

[nickcrowhurst]

Originally Posted by ljmiii

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to address the problem faced by a 16' Bambi owner
rules of thumb are no substitute for careful measurement and calculation.

I certainly agree that the thread doesn't address (or solve) the problem faced by a 16' Bambi owner.
As a fellow enthusiast for careful measurement and calculation, you might like to look at this thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forum...sis-19236.html?
It's not directly related to this issue, but it might be of interest.
Nick.

[scottanlily]

The other interesting thing to note on the highlander is the gas only v6
verses the hybrid v6 gets better mileage on the road mostly .A customer of mine bought both and the gas only gets better mileage all around than the hybrid .This is becoming common knowledge these days as the hybrids are not getting near the claimed mileage as they are said to. they are great in town ,the highway mileage is not ,this is a known fact .all the extra weight
with the electric motors and battery pack and the special cvt trans all take
away from fuel mileage on the highway because your then just carring all of
the extra weight,in town the electric systems do more and the mileage goes up .Ive been involved in good hybrid tech classes and continue the education thru each manafacturers hybrid offerings as the technician classes come up.I agree also that moving weight behind the trailer axle to offset the
tongue weight is not recommended ,it worked in this case ,but the ideal
scenario is to have the TV be capable of handling the tongue weight thats
designed into the trailer in the first place.It would be interesting to know what effect the WD has on the weight distribution with the hybrid and what
the tongue weight is when the weight becomes distributed across the axles

Scott

[ljmiii]

Originally Posted by nickcrowhurst

I certainly agree that the thread doesn't address (or solve) the problem faced by a 16' Bambi owner.
As a fellow enthusiast for careful measurement and calculation, you might like to look at this thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forum...sis-19236.html?
It's not directly related to this issue, but it might be of interest.
Nick.

It is a GREAT post (and thread)....thanks. I had read the 'Weight Distribution (WD) Hitch --- How it Works' post on rv.net and did the calculations to find the relative proportions of the WD hitch lift/loads...but did not know how to figure out what the actual load was. Plugging in my numbers into your equations I find that my WD hitch front axle load is 202 lbs, my trailer axle load is 119 lbs, and my rear axle lift is 321 lbs - changing the load from the Bambi on my rear axle from 602 lbs to 281 lbs. Very cool.

[nickcrowhurst]

Excellent! It's always rewarding to know one's work is not wasted.
Nick.

[scottanlily]

The Wd definately does work well as shown by cutting the 600 # in half.
Im wondering what the load capacity is on the rear suspension /bearings etc.
How much weight can the vehical support on the rear end ?

Scott

[ljmiii]

Originally Posted by scottanlily

I agree also that moving weight behind the trailer axle to offset the tongue weight is not recommended ,it worked in this case ,but the ideal scenario is to have the TV be capable of handling the tongue weight thats designed into the trailer in the first place.

The problem isn't that the 16' Bambi tongue weight is too big for the tow vehicle...it is that the tongue weight is too big for the trailer. Even if I was towing with a V10 diesel pickup I'd still be loading as much weight as I could to the rear of the Bambi's axle to counterbalance the excess weight the Bambi carries forward of its axle.

Originally Posted by scottanlily

It would be interesting to know what effect the WD has on the weight distribution with the hybrid and what the tongue weight is when the weight becomes distributed across the axles
Scott

Thanks to nickcrowhurst I can now tell you - the load on my rear axle goes from 602 lbs to 281 lbs.

[ljmiii]

Originally Posted by scottanlily

The Wd definately does work well as shown by cutting the 600 # in half. Im wondering what the load capacity is on the rear suspension /bearings etc. How much weight can the vehical support on the rear end ?
Scott

That I don't know. I know that when the WD bars are installed the front wheel well, rear wheel well, and hitch receiver height are exactly the same height as with no trailer attached. Without the WD bars installed the hitch receiver drops more than 3 inches.

I also know that the HiHy's payload is 1430lbs - more than sufficient for us, our luggage, our fuel/liquids, and our tongue weight.

I also know that both the 6 cyl Highlander and the HiHy are officially rated at 3500lbs max towing capacity...even though the HiHy has an extra pair of electric motors with a combined 343 lb. ft. of torque. Which is probably why the HiHy was so pleasant to drive even though I am bumping up against it's 'max tow capacity'.