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Old 04-13-2018, 10:03 PM   #61
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Precious, your lack of reading comprehension is remarkable.
I take this tone because you did.
My analogy’s initial scenario already gave the gasser the speed advantage. Then, loaded both. The sprinter would slow down while the linebacker would remain the same. Nowhere in ther did I suggest the sprinter would be slower than the linebacker.
Speed vs work. That’s all man.

I don’t give a crap what you drive. A diesel performs work more efficiently. A gas engine can produce the same amount of work but requires more rpm and is less efficient. Better suited to speed.

It was just an analogy. Not an argument.

Sheesh.
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:04 PM   #62
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JCL. Same response.
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:44 AM   #63
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Diesel more Horsepower over range of RPM

The issue is not the amount of horsepower and torque at a particular point. But rather the range of horsepower over all RPMs. The difference between gas and diesel is that the diesels have more horsepower at all rpm levels because of greater torque. They have a flatter horsepower curve. That is why diesels pull better at all speeds.
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Old 04-14-2018, 07:15 AM   #64
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http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2017/08...vs-diesel.html

This site gives a good synopsis of whether to go gas or diesel by showing the advantages of both. I think the main point is that diesel is better for towing because of higher torque. But should I get a diesel? the caveat is extent of use. If you are towing a lot then a diesel truck is the way to go. If you are a casual tower than the gas is the way to go. Again it is mostly use dependent.

So in my case I tow my AS way less than I use my F150 ecoboost for regular driving. My F150 does just fine with limited towing. Now if I was going to tow significantly more then I would be better off with a diesel. Reason: The engine is made to work for that purpose.

So what truck should I get? If I was going to pull my AS 12,000 miles a year and head for the mountains, I would get a diesel. Reason: Better suited for towing and the engine break.

If I would tow my AS 5,000 miles a year I would go gas F150. Reason: Less costly, will do the job, and better everyday driving experience.
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Old 04-14-2018, 07:53 AM   #65
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Two tow vehicles

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Originally Posted by LessOrdinary View Post
We are looking to buy an AS 27’ or 30’ Flying Cloud or Classic. What type of tow vehicle should we get? We are considering Ford F-150 or F-250 and Chevrolet Silverado 1500 or 2500. Car dealerships have advised us to get the bigger of the two models. We will be driving all over the U.S. all year long.
All advice and opinions are welcome and appreciated on the tow vehicle and model of AS. Thanks!!!
We have 30' classic and have pulled it with our 2016 F150 5L and found it able to do the job. That said we now have a 2017 F250 6.7 diesel and the difference is day and night. The 250 tows and handles the trailer much and I mean much better, hills are not a concern and strait hyw towing are effortless.
This is my 2 cents worth hope it helps.
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:29 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by dirtturner View Post
We have 30' classic and have pulled it with our 2016 F150 5L and found it able to do the job. That said we now have a 2017 F250 6.7 diesel and the difference is day and night. The 250 tows and handles the trailer much and I mean much better, hills are not a concern and strait hyw towing are effortless.
This is my 2 cents worth hope it helps.
That pretty much says it all..... Do you want to “do it?”, or “Do it well?”

Well worth 2 cents!
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:45 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by dirtturner View Post
We have 30' classic and have pulled it with our 2016 F150 5L and found it able to do the job. That said we now have a 2017 F250 6.7 diesel and the difference is day and night. The 250 tows and handles the trailer much and I mean much better, hills are not a concern and strait hyw towing are effortless.
This is my 2 cents worth hope it helps.
Yet ANOTHER satisfied, actual conversion input. I also had a Ram 1500 Hemi and now have a Ram 2500 Cummins. Absolutely NO comparison in ease of effort to haul.

But, but..we are being TOLD that the HP of an F150 will BLOW its doors off. I guess with enough road the f150 will eventually catch up...eventually, at about 5700rpm with their foot firmly against the firewall.

Don't get all huffy, that statement does not say the f150 can't do it! I do like the ride of the f150 though.


Paper calculations are always "better" than the actual events. Only those that have OWNED and TOWED with BOTH know from experience the true (Night/Day) difference in the overall ease of towing with torque. Try it, you'll like it

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Old 04-14-2018, 08:54 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
Good article, thank you.

Best regards and safe travels
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:48 AM   #69
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My apologies to Nightmare67. My tone was off base.

To Daquenzer, great article. A nicely balanced comparison.

One thing I'll comment on is that an exhaust brake is not an advantage of a diesel platform. It only bring to parity a capability that already exists as part of a gas motor. Yet, a diesel without one fitted is not adequately setup to tow significant loads.

I certainly don't disagree that a 3/4 ton would tow a similar load more effortlessly than a 1/2 ton, especially a heavier trailer. That's not to say that towing a reasonable trailer is outside the capability of a 1/2 ton, especially the more modern ones.

Diesel, now that's a more subjective choice, that is no longer a clear winner today. With the onset of DEF, additional emissions, and the reliability those components bring, to sensitivity of fuels with additional fuel filter maintenance and potential injector issues. It does go about it's work in a seemingly more relaxed manner. Big gassers don't have to run full tilt either and have an extra margin of hp (to weight, and a like of swilling gas) to getting to the top of the hill first.

Great read for those of you that have not come across an apples to apples, almost 3/4 ton, gas to diesel comparison: https://www.tfltruck.com/2016/07/201...towing-review/
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Old 04-14-2018, 12:57 PM   #70
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Ptec. No worries.
First rounds on me if we cross paths. I’ll be the guy that smells like diesel
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Old 04-14-2018, 01:15 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteck View Post
-------snip----------------
Great read for those of you that have not come across an apples to apples, almost 3/4 ton, gas to diesel comparison: https://www.tfltruck.com/2016/07/201...towing-review/
This is an excellent comparison of two very closely matched trucks gas vs diesel of similar power output.

IMO these stack well against F150/1500 class or even some SUV size. They are considerably less powerful when compared to a F250/ 2500 DIESEL class truck. Gas XD vs F150 3.5Eco (gas) also did not do well.

The fastest XD (gas) in the video pulled 10600 lbs up the gauntlet in 9:45

The F150 3.5 Ecoboost pulled 9500 lbs up the same run in 7:58

The Ram 2500 Hemi (gas) pulled 11900 lbs up the same in 13:20 BOOOOOOO (obvious weight to HP problem)

The Ram 2500 Cummings (diesel) pulled 12,500 lbs up the same run in 8:05

That is a significant time difference in only 8 miles with WAY more total weight for the Ram.

XD diesel has 310hp/555 lb-ft vs Ram Cummings 370hp/800 lb-ft of torque.

F150 3.5Eco has 375hp/470 lb-ft torque vs Nissan XD 390hp/394 lb-ft torque (gas)

The interesting "take away" is the trucks in each class (gas or diesel) with higher torque pulled MUCH faster than the ones with higher HP when maxed in weight to pull.

These are some numbers and times that should be able to help determine what can tow what "best".

Safe journeys !
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Old 04-14-2018, 04:31 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteck View Post
My apologies to Nightmare67. My tone was off base.

To Daquenzer, great article. A nicely balanced comparison.

One thing I'll comment on is that an exhaust brake is not an advantage of a diesel platform. It only bring to parity a capability that already exists as part of a gas motor. Yet, a diesel without one fitted is not adequately setup to tow significant loads.

I certainly don't disagree that a 3/4 ton would tow a similar load more effortlessly than a 1/2 ton, especially a heavier trailer. That's not to say that towing a reasonable trailer is outside the capability of a 1/2 ton, especially the more modern ones.

Diesel, now that's a more subjective choice, that is no longer a clear winner today. With the onset of DEF, additional emissions, and the reliability those components bring, to sensitivity of fuels with additional fuel filter maintenance and potential injector issues. It does go about it's work in a seemingly more relaxed manner. Big gassers don't have to run full tilt either and have an extra margin of hp (to weight, and a like of swilling gas) to getting to the top of the hill first.

Great read for those of you that have not come across an apples to apples, almost 3/4 ton, gas to diesel comparison: https://www.tfltruck.com/2016/07/201...towing-review/
I'm sorry to see this gas vs diesel argument still happening....if you have not tried towing your 27' to 30' AS with a 3/4T diesel vs a gas 1/2T or 3/4T TV, up a mountain/down a mountain, with automatic engine brake engaged at speed, I just don't think you folks reading and using equations, or watching video's on torque vs HP, get it. Seems you all will continue to argue.
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:08 PM   #73
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Personally we use a 2012 Ram 2500 HD Cummins for our 9,200 pound 2014 31’ Classic with a 1,175 pound tongue weight. The rig scales 19,200 going down the road. If it fits inside the truck or trailer, we can take it with us.

By contrast, my 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI v6 turbo diesel towed our new empty 2013 25FB International Serenity from the dealer in Los Angles to Phoenix on I-10 at 55 mph and had no issues maintaining that speed in the climb out of Palm Springs. However, it was not happy when the 25FB was loaded to 6,900 pounds camping ready. Thus we got the Ram.

The MB tows our 2015 23D fully loaded at 6,062 pounds and 962 pounds tongue weight with no issues. Have a Hensley Arrow hutch on the 23 D and a ProPride hutch on the Classic. We carefully select the contents in the car to one 2000 watt Honda propane converted generator, gas grill, air compressor, two matching ZipDee chairs, a basic hitching tools bag and tire changing wedge ramp. Plus our laptop computers and other small stuff.
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:06 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
...I just don't think you folks reading and using equations, or watching video's on torque vs HP, get it. Seems you all will continue to argue.
No one is arguing, at least no one with engineering background. The high school crowd still does though...
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:50 PM   #75
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Outside of the awesome job our F250 PowerStroke does towing our 34 foot Avion, one of the best side benefits is: within reason, I don’t have to get the calculator out and do any ciphering before we load something in the truck OR the trailer.

As my hero, Forrest Gump, says.... “Good, one less thing!”
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:46 AM   #76
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No one is arguing, at least no one with engineering background. The high school crowd still does though...
Hey, I resemble that!
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Old 04-15-2018, 12:19 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by pteck View Post
My apologies to Nightmare67. My tone was off base.

To Daquenzer, great article. A nicely balanced comparison.

One thing I'll comment on is that an exhaust brake is not an advantage of a diesel platform. It only bring to parity a capability that already exists as part of a gas motor. Yet, a diesel without one fitted is not adequately setup to tow significant loads.

I certainly don't disagree that a 3/4 ton would tow a similar load more effortlessly than a 1/2 ton, especially a heavier trailer. That's not to say that towing a reasonable trailer is outside the capability of a 1/2 ton, especially the more modern ones.

Diesel, now that's a more subjective choice, that is no longer a clear winner today. With the onset of DEF, additional emissions, and the reliability those components bring, to sensitivity of fuels with additional fuel filter maintenance and potential injector issues. It does go about it's work in a seemingly more relaxed manner. Big gassers don't have to run full tilt either and have an extra margin of hp (to weight, and a like of swilling gas) to getting to the top of the hill first.

Great read for those of you that have not come across an apples to apples, almost 3/4 ton, gas to diesel comparison: https://www.tfltruck.com/2016/07/201...towing-review/
The Diesel engines were outselling gas in the big trucks, before the Jacobs engine brake....they were more economical.... the Jacob engine brake made it even better.....early 1960’s....there are no big gassers anymore...they never had a long life....def..$7.88 for 2.5 gals every 1500 miles towing....no injector problems...the small turboed gas engine is no match to the diesel...go try one yourself....
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Old 04-15-2018, 02:03 PM   #78
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The Diesel engines were outselling gas in the big trucks, before the Jacobs engine brake....they were more economical.... the Jacob engine brake made it even better.....early 1960’s....there are no big gassers anymore...they never had a long life....
We are a long way past the early sixties patent for the Jacob compression brake, over five decades.

In the past six years or so, most heavy truck manufacturers have moved to offer gas engines. Look to Peterbilt, Kenworth, Navistar, Volvo, Mercedes, and others.

Modern gas engines are cleaner burning, offer longer oil change intervals than diesels due to that cleaner burning, offer longer overhaul intervals in many cases (these engines are built on the same blocks as their diesel kin), and are now available in some models with not only identical hp and torque curves, but matching torque curves for the same driving experience. Those ones are engines using the diesel cycle, but not burning diesel. Westport is a supplier, working with Cummins. I should say similar driving experience, since they are quieter (lower peak cylinder pressures). And remember that the fuel is cheaper.

They are not yet for every application due to the range issues (return to base applications often work well with CNG, longer range applications may use LNG on some routes).

The most recent Volvo release is here (global site):

http://www.volvotrucks.com/en-en/tru...vo-fh-lng.html

Coming soon to North America. Apparently these companies didn't get the memo that there are no big gas engines anymore.
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Old 04-15-2018, 07:32 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by jcl View Post
We are a long way past the early sixties patent for the Jacob compression brake, over five decades.

In the past six years or so, most heavy truck manufacturers have moved to offer gas engines. Look to Peterbilt, Kenworth, Navistar, Volvo, Mercedes, and others.

Modern gas engines are cleaner burning, offer longer oil change intervals than diesels due to that cleaner burning, offer longer overhaul intervals in many cases (these engines are built on the same blocks as their diesel kin), and are now available in some models with not only identical hp and torque curves, but matching torque curves for the same driving experience. Those ones are engines using the diesel cycle, but not burning diesel. Westport is a supplier, working with Cummins. I should say similar driving experience, since they are quieter (lower peak cylinder pressures). And remember that the fuel is cheaper.

They are not yet for every application due to the range issues (return to base applications often work well with CNG, longer range applications may use LNG on some routes).

The most recent Volvo release is here (global site):

http://www.volvotrucks.com/en-en/tru...vo-fh-lng.html

Coming soon to North America. Apparently these companies didn't get the memo that there are no big gas engines anymore.
Bio-LPG.? Where?
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Old 04-15-2018, 10:17 PM   #80
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Take a look at “Keep Your Day Dream” on you-tube. Marc does a excellent job describing towing weights and what you need to know to travel safe and legal.
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