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02-05-2014, 09:28 PM
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#21
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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so if I add a WD hitch set up maybe the timbrens won't even touch the axle
We set up a WDH, properly, on a weighbridge using static measurements. This is a representation for dynamic forces. What is a few hundred pounds at rest can be a few thousand pounds under adverse conditions. Controlling the action of the WD "springs" is the suspension of the two vehicles. Interfering with that set of actions (shortened in time/distance, and a very strong reactive force at one point) upsets the engineered approach to hauling a trailer around that has a high tongue weight (which is needed for towed vehicle stability, good traiiling action).
Andy/Inland RV was the field man for insurance data collection on A/S accidents. A data set that is/was without variables to be seen for many other vehicle insurance purposes. A WD hitch, yes, but crutches, for vehicle sag, no.
Let the WDH do it's job. Set it up properly. IF new springs are needed for the TV, then investigate that. They are considerably more expensive than these gimmicks (yes, I'll be using the AEON spring on the Steer Axle of my diesel truck as bumpstop replacement), but my loaded to GVWR truck may need to have a new set of rear leafs to reflect the shorter range of Drive Axle weight from solo to towing due to my higher-than-stock "adjusted empty weight).
Pickup trucks, like other high CG vehicles have a tendency to be stable until they are not. In a time frame that is so short as to be nearly meaningless. Over we go, in less time than to say it.
Set up the articulated rig. Play with TV tire pressures within prescribed range. Get better shock absorbers (such as KONI FSD), but avoid cheap "fixes" that can cause serious problems while "fixing" non-serious ones.
.
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02-05-2014, 10:44 PM
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#22
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Maniacal Engineer
1971 25' Tradewind
Lopez Island
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,244
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There's lots of allegations and innuendo here, but air suspension assists make perfect sense if the load in the tow vehicle is variable.
WD hitches use spring bars to apply a torque between the trailer and the tv. Because of the way the spring bars are adjusted, the ride height of the tv will have a large effect on the amount of force placed on the trailer tongue. It makes no sense to try and use the WD hitch to lift the extra weight in the TV. Air assists work like a charm to allow the adjustment of the ride height of the TV to a consistent value before hitching up the trailer.
- Bart
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02-06-2014, 06:29 AM
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#23
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
.
, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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I imstalled air helpers on our Suburban, and had excellent results, but towing and empty. It all seems to depend on whether people use things like overload springs as a tool, rather than a replacement for common sense. Like it or not, there have been many advancements in suspension and towing technology over the last couple of decades.
You can either use the new tools provided you, or remain stubbornly clinging to the past.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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02-06-2014, 06:40 AM
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#24
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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Where the forces are placed is what is in question. A true air ride suspension is one thing, and a cobbled-together collection (not a true system) is another.
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02-06-2014, 07:47 AM
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#25
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH
Yes, the Timbren's are working so good, I think air shocks will be my next addition. And if I like them, air bag overloads should top it off.
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To each his own, but scales tell it like it is.
Scales are proof, not opinions.
Andy
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02-06-2014, 09:46 AM
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#26
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Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
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I know this will probably sound like I think I know it all about towing and trailers, but the fact is I like most everyone else, am always learning new things.
However, I refuse to let an insurance study conducted 40+ years ago, by people with little hands-on towing experience, on accidents that happened with the equipment of the day, influence my decisions about my rig set up, when I in fact, have that many years of hands-on experience with ever improving trailer, hitch, tow vehicle suspension, and tire technologies.
One thing I most certainly have learned in my years on this planet is, to learn new things, you must try new things.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
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02-06-2014, 11:42 AM
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#27
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH
I know this will probably sound like I think I know it all about towing and trailers, but the fact is I like most everyone else, am always learning new things.
However, I refuse to let an insurance study conducted 40+ years ago, by people with little hands-on towing experience, on accidents that happened with the equipment of the day, influence my decisions about my rig set up, when I in fact, have that many years of hands-on experience with ever improving trailer, hitch, tow vehicle suspension, and tire technologies.
One thing I most certainly have learned in my years on this planet is, to learn new things, you must try new things.
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Steve.
I averaged over 3,000 (three thousands) miles a month, towing a 31 foot Airstream, for a period of 4 years.
Visiting and training dealers all over the US, required lots of traveling.
That in itself, gave many miles of hands on experience.
Laws of Physics is Physics, that does not change over time.
Andy
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02-06-2014, 11:50 AM
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#28
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH
One thing I most certainly have learned in my years on this planet is, to learn new things, you must try new things.
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Steve.
Yes indeed, life does go on, along with new ideas and technology.
But, basic Laws of Physics, don't change.
It appears that your trying new things, probably as a matter of curiosity, and personal hands on, and that is something that always becomes rewarding, sometimes in many nice ways, and sometimes not.
More Airstream owners, I feel, should try some of the things you have.
Personal experience, most of the time, can be very rewarding.
Thanks for your interest and contributions.
Andy
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02-06-2014, 12:55 PM
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#29
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3 Rivet Member
Puyallup
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 184
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If the Timbrens and air bags were such a bad deal I'm sure it would be on the internet somewhere and the manufactures would be out of business
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02-06-2014, 01:01 PM
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#30
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srpuywa
If the Timbrens and air bags were such a bad deal I'm sure it would be on the internet somewhere and the manufactures would be out of business
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Those parts are not a bad deal, BUT, when used with a load equalizing hitch, they can and do cause problems, since they progressively defeat the purpose of the load equalizing hitch.
Andy
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