the ideal multi-use truck?

[ROBERT CROSS]

......my multi-use truck is a single use 2006 Suburban 8.1 bought used.
I do drive it without the AS....1260mi this year alone.

Bob

[rostam]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

Some folks believe the 911's are quite good TV's........

That is a small Caravan, with a tongue weight of may be 150#. Yet, the Porsche looks overloaded.

[slowmover]

These kinds of safety issues come down more to driver awareness and skill than anything else.

But they don't. One cannot overcome the physics involved. Pay attention to statisticis as neither you nor I are exempt. The question is more why use a high risk vehicle that is also more expensive to operate every mile of ownership when one with a lower risk is available . . and is cheaper to run.

Will it last as long? Gee, thousands of us used sedans "not rated" for 200k miles + 10-years ownership once upon a time. Cross country and for months at a time. When roads were not nearly so good as today.

The faulty assumption is that a truck is the default choice for towing. No, the operative quality is the travel trailer design. Start at the top when choosing a TV . . a pickup is some ways down any reasonable list. Leave the emotions out. If one wants to compromise towing stability, so be it. But be sure to report back on the total braking distance and accident avoidance envelope reductions. They matter.

Never driven a well-sorted combination? That's the second question. Most have not, and never will is the shame of it. No pickup makes that list.

.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by slowmover

The question is more why use a high risk vehicle that is also more expensive to operate every mile of ownership when one with a lower risk is available . . and is cheaper to run.

The low risk sedans that you are promoting are not designed/rated to tow a heavy Airstream. The majority of people believe the manufacturer when it comes to ratings -- I am yet to see a single sedan towing an Airstream, where I have seen many many many trucks/SUVS/Vans.

[dkottum]

rostam:

What do you tow your Airstream with?

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by slowmover

These kinds of safety issues come down more to driver awareness and skill than anything else.

But they don't. One cannot overcome the physics involved. Pay attention to statisticis as neither you nor I are exempt. The question is more why use a high risk vehicle that is also more expensive to operate every mile of ownership when one with a lower risk is available . . and is cheaper to run.

Will it last as long? Gee, thousands of us used sedans "not rated" for 200k miles + 10-years ownership once upon a time. Cross country and for months at a time. When roads were not nearly so good as today.

The faulty assumption is that a truck is the default choice for towing. No, the operative quality is the travel trailer design. Start at the top when choosing a TV . . a pickup is some ways down any reasonable list. Leave the emotions out. If one wants to compromise towing stability, so be it. But be sure to report back on the total braking distance and accident avoidance envelope reductions. They matter.

Never driven a well-sorted combination? That's the second question. Most have not, and never will is the shame of it. No pickup makes that list.

.

Sorry, but I will still respectfully disagree with you on this point. My bet is that most current pickup trucks with still out handle most of the travel trailers being pulled.

A graphic demonstration of how hard a high centered vehicle could be cornered was this: when my oldest daughter was 17, I took her to the Bondurant school for high performance driving in Phoenix. At the beginning of the school, we were all taken for a ride around the roadrace course in a one ton E350 15 passenger van. It is an eyeopening experience. Most people had no clue that a big boxy high centered van full of people could corner that fast. Skill.....the ability to control the vehicle in motion. Large part of it.

I'm sorry, but throwing the typical argument of "statistics" for rollover of pickups is probably not a good argument here. We would need to see all of the data to make it even worth consideration. For instance, how many of these rollovers are young fellows off-roading with 4WD ? Without knowing whether that and other use like that is part of the stats makes that discussion pointless.

I'm not arguing that you can't use a sedan to pull an airstream. Obviously you can. But to my mind there is more to what goes into making a good tow vehicle than just slalom handling.

All of which goes beyond the point of the subject of this particular thread.

Look, I'm not arguing that I am expert in vehicle dynamics. But, I have owned and driven a variety of cars and trucks over the last 45 years. I've towed with just about everything from a Honda Accord, a Chevy wagon, a Torino wagon, and various trucks.
I spent six years working as a crew member on a car roadracing team ( showroom stock and Formula Atlantic ), two years on a "super modified" team ( forerunner to Sprint car ) and unrelated to this, three seasons on a motorcycle roadrace team. So I have at least "some" experience in chassis/suspension setup, tire selection, etc.

I'll vote for superior skill any day over "a better handling sedan".

PS, as for the much vaunted 300C, my thoughts on it are this: it may in fact be a pretty good tow vehicle. But....I would not want to use one. My photographer buddy has a Hemi 300C and I've driven it a fair bit, and ridden in it a lot. It would not be my first choice as a long distance highway car. It's honestly not very comfortable. It's a "nice car", but my opinion is it's not a world beater/game changer.

[ROBERT CROSS]

OMYOMYOMY....these threads are so much fun.....

If your happy with what you're using......it's adequate.
If others are unhappy with what you're using......it's not.

Bob

[xrvr]

Never confuse real world seat of your pants experience with theory and old wives tales. You will just make the "experts" mad. Jim

[polarlyse]

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned by Switz that he's never seen any vehicles getting weighed at an accident scene. He is most certainly correct in that observation but beware if it's going to happen ( and it might depending on the circumstances ) it would be done later during a re-construction of that MVA. That goes way beyond the scene investigation. So, where it is unlikely to happen it certainly is not beyond the scope of an investigation.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by polarlyse

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned by Switz that he's never seen any vehicles getting weighed at an accident scene. He is most certainly correct in that observation but beware if it's going to happen ( and it might depending on the circumstances ) it would be done later during a re-construction of that MVA. That goes way beyond the scene investigation. So, where it is unlikely to happen it certainly is not beyond the scope of an investigation.

I was chatting with a Civil Engineer friend of mine. One of his colleagues was approached by a Law firm to work for them. What does the law firm do? They get a list of the accidents that happened in the last year, go to the site of each accident, inspect the road/signs/etc. (they have Civil engineers do this), and if there is a minimal mismatch to what the code recommends (say the warning sign to slow down in 100 ft farther down than what the code says), they suit the state. They had won tens of millions of dollars in law suits and were expanding. BTW, my friends' colleague did not take the job offer. This shows in what kind of litigious society we live in. Very unfortunate.

[Texasdiver]

I guess there is a point at which the tow vehicle is too small for the trailer

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQSTMYNqBW8

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by rostam

I am yet to see a single sedan towing an Airstream, where I have seen many many many trucks/SUVS/Vans.

A good point and it makes one wonder. To me it just makes so much sense to put an aerodynamic vehicle in front of the "state of the art" aerodynamic Airstream.
Considering the fact the proof is out there that it works, and works well, I'm surprised you haven't seen any cars towing Streams. It is fairly common in these parts.

[Moflash]

A Airstream has better aerodynamic properties than other travel trailers but is far from aerodynamic.it is a rounded corner brick wall traveling down the road.

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by Moflash

A Airstream has better aerodynamic properties than other travel trailers but is far from aerodynamic.it is a rounded corner brick wall traveling down the road.

Heh, heh.....yes sir, and in my experience with "rounded corner" horse trailers vs my square boxy SOB, those rounded corners and slightly lower profile is worth about 1.5 to 2 mpg. Hey, you gotta take what you can get......

I will readily admit my Frontier is not exactly aerodynamic compared to a sedan.

[SmokelessJoe]

back on subject? Just sayin'


Sergei

[mefly2]

If you want a diesel ... nothing else will float your boat - so to speak...go ahead and buy it! Realize that around town will cost more in terms of operating expenses and - as others have said - the diesel will cost more to begin with as well (also retain more value, too).

Hard to beat the diesel for towing - why did we wait so long !!!

[dkottum]

Diesels aren't limited to heavy city trucks

2014 RAM 1500 EcoDiesel V6 | Diesel Engine Truck | RAM Trucks

[reinergirl]

Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe

Attachment 202577

Attachment 202578

Attachment 202579

back on subject? Just sayin'


Sergei

Out of all the threads on the forum your's is my favorite......just doing it..... In style ! Kudos

[rostam]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

A good point and it makes one wonder. To me it just makes so much sense to put an aerodynamic vehicle in front of the "state of the art" aerodynamic Airstream.
Considering the fact the proof is out there that it works, and works well, I'm surprised you haven't seen any cars towing Streams. It is fairly common in these parts.

I agree, it makes sense. The problem is no manufacturer offers any sedan/station wagon/minivan in North America that is designed/rated to tow heavy.

In Europe, sedans are regularly used as TV. However, the campers are shorter/narrower/lighter, have a low tongue weight, and are towed at a slower speed. More importantly, the sedans are rated higher than in the US. It may be the same nameplate, but under the skin they are different. They are also significantly more expensive.

In the US, the campers are longer/wider/heavier, have a high tongue weight, and are towed at a faster speed. And the sedans are rated much lower than in Europe. All these factors makes it impossible to tow with sedans in North America. And I don't believe after market modifications can bring up North American cars up to par with their European counterparts.

Car companies have no incentive to offer European spec'ed cars in North America. Say you were a car company, would you rather offer a Subaru that costs 60k and can tow 5000# OR a pickup that costs 40k and can tow 10000#?

I don't think sedans are inherently incapable of towing. My point is given the lower rating of sedans in North America and the bigger campers we use here, the combo does not work.

I guess, one option is to import both the Airstream/sedan from Europe! A 25 ft Airstream in England weighs 4400# and has a 330# tongue weight. I wish we had those here in the US.

[Road Ruler]

rostam... To sum up...... There are a number of us that have been, and are towing with cars.
What you are saying is that... "what we have been doing successfully for decades is not possible".
Enough already...... now back on track with the truck discussion.