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Old 01-27-2020, 01:39 PM   #1
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The Great Tow Vehicle Dilemma

I well know that these are fighting words, but I will bring forth this question anyway. I would ask that the responses be civil and contain actual real information, likes and dislikes not with standing.

Lucy's current towing partner (Lillian) is a 2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Duramax, Crew Cab, Standard Bed, Single Rear Wheel.

I have decided to consider replacing Lillian with a similar new vehicle. I am interested in upgrading to a 2020 because of the availability of the new electronic gizmos and multiple cameras. I will freely admit that this is a want thing more than a need thing.

My new tow vehicle must be at least q 3/4 ton, powered by a diesel engine. I have not shopped Toyota or Nissan because they have no offerings in this category.

I have done quite a bit of research and pricing on the Ford, Chevrolet, and Ram offerings. I priced each one at a higher trim level and all of the options that I wanted. These trucks cost a lot of money, and I did realize that going in.

Here are the price results of my research. I will use round figures for the MSRP of each one. I tried as much as possible to make the trim levels comparable.

Ford Lariat King Ranch: $77,000

Chevrolet Silverado LZT: $74,000

Ram Laramie Longhorn: $78,000

I am assuming that I can get a similar deal on each of these. The prices are similar enough that I would consider all of them for the right reason or feature.

I would like to get some input from the group on the reasons that I should consider one over the others.

Brian
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Old 01-27-2020, 01:56 PM   #2
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The RAM Cummins straight 6 engine has an excellent reputation. Its a small truck/industrial engine while the V-8's in the other two are large car engine.

My wife loved the RAM interior.
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Old 01-27-2020, 01:57 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by moosetags View Post
I well know that these are fighting words, but I will bring forth this question anyway. I would ask that the responses be civil and contain actual real information, likes and dislikes not with standing.

Lucy's current towing partner (Lillian) is a 2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Duramax, Crew Cab, Standard Bed, Single Rear Wheel.

I have decided to consider replacing Lillian with a similar new vehicle. I am interested in upgrading to a 2020 because of the availability of the new electronic gizmos and multiple cameras. I will freely admit that this is a want thing more than a need thing.

My new tow vehicle must be at least q 3/4 ton, powered by a diesel engine. I have not shopped Toyota or Nissan because they have no offerings in this category.

I have done quite a bit of research and pricing on the Ford, Chevrolet, and Ram offerings. I priced each one at a higher trim level and all of the options that I wanted. These trucks cost a lot of money, and I did realize that going in.

Here are the price results of my research. I will use round figures for the MSRP of each one. I tried as much as possible to make the trim levels comparable.

Ford Lariat King Ranch: $77,000

Chevrolet Silverado LZT: $74,000

Ram Laramie Longhorn: $78,000

I am assuming that I can get a similar deal on each of these. The prices are similar enough that I would consider all of them for the right reason or feature.

I would like to get some input from the group on the reasons that I should consider one over the others.

Brian
I have a Ram CTD. I assume you want a diesel.

Go with the Ford. Most horsepower and torque. All 3 are really nice trucks.
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Old 01-27-2020, 02:13 PM   #4
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I own a Ford F250 and would probably buy another. But I think you may miss your ride quality from the GM's independent front suspension. When I test drove all three options, I liked the ride of the GMC Denali the best, but my wife liked the seats in the Ford Platinum the best. Guess which one we bought?

Another thing about the Ford. There are only rear audible sensors (beepers). I expected all-around audible sensors on an $80,000 truck with the all-around cameras. I didn't realize it didn't have them until after buying. Make sure you check for that option on all of them if that is of interest. My Titan XD Diesel had both all-around cameras with all-around beepers. The beepers saved me from bumping into things as much as the cameras. I miss my beepers.

Its probably more civil to critique your own truck than to critique the ones you don't own. Just saying . . .
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Old 01-27-2020, 02:24 PM   #5
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Having spent my working life in the business of maintaining and repairing European autos, I always look at just how difficult repairs are to perform. I am sure that you can get a good or bad version of any of these trucks but... watch a couple of videos of the V8 diesels getting say a fuel pump replaced...
All I can say is WOW!
I owned a 2016 Ram 2500 for about 3 1/2 years and just 60,000 miles and it was almost perfect. The only warranty repair was to a drivers door handle that was funny when delivered.
That truck, the previous generation, had the smallest turning radius of the three brands you mentioned and mine had the Ram Box option that I loved but some would pass over preferring a truck cap.
The Ram diesel is a Cummins engine that is used in military boating applications, it is that good.
The V8 engines used in the others are very smooth and sound great.
That is all I have...
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Old 01-27-2020, 04:00 PM   #6
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Old 01-27-2020, 04:32 PM   #7
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We owned a 2004 Dodge Ram diesel 4x4 until last year. We loved it. We assumed we would buy another Ram, because in 2004, it won me over completely and never let us down. It felt good, looked good, sounded good, and had an amazing turning radius. But last year we drove both a Ram 3500 and a Ford f350, and it was as if the tables had completely turned - except for the turning radius, where the Ram still won. The Ford feels better to drive. The interior seems nicer. It's quiet, both inside and out. I knew within 5 minutes and 5 miles of driving the Ram that everything I loved about our 2004 was gone. We went with the Ford F350 Lariet supercab long bed diesel 4x4.
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Old 01-27-2020, 05:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
Having spent my working life in the business of maintaining and repairing European autos, I always look at just how difficult repairs are to perform. I am sure that you can get a good or bad version of any of these trucks but... watch a couple of videos of the V8 diesels getting say a fuel pump replaced...
All I can say is WOW!
I owned a 2016 Ram 2500 for about 3 1/2 years and just 60,000 miles and it was almost perfect. The only warranty repair was to a drivers door handle that was funny when delivered.
That truck, the previous generation, had the smallest turning radius of the three brands you mentioned and mine had the Ram Box option that I loved but some would pass over preferring a truck cap.
The Ram diesel is a Cummins engine that is used in military boating applications, it is that good.
The V8 engines used in the others are very smooth and sound great.
That is all I have...
I believe the Cummins engine in the new Ram is using the same Bosch CP4.2 fuel pump as the Ford Powerstroke. GM just changed to a new Denso fuel system. Jury is out on that system. May turn out to be very good.
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Old 01-27-2020, 05:43 PM   #9
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I have a 2019 F350 diesel.4x4.. CrewCab, regular bed. Lariat Ultimate package.
Only had it for a few months & 6000 miles but we love it so far.

Tows great and has 3400 lb payload.

Has cameras all around and will show you an image as if from a viewpoint 10 feet above the truck. Shows all obstacles and Helps you in tight spots. It’ll also show you a rear view along both sides of the trailer when backing up.

I saw a GM commercial that incorporates the trailer rear view camera and shows you an image as if you’re looking through an invisible trailer when backing up.

My wife insisted on Air Conditioned seats. I laughed, but this summer I’ll probably be addicted to that feature.

There seems to be no end to the cool features you can get, it just depends what you want most.

The only knock on our 2019 F350 is the height. Not an issue for me but wife really has to climb up. I like the height cause it makes it easier to reach the water separator drain underneath ��. The 2020 Super Duty is supposed to be lower in height, however.

FWIW Consumer Reports gave the Ford Super Duty truck’s higher reliability ratings than Ram or GM at the time. YMMV
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Old 01-27-2020, 05:47 PM   #10
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Hey Brian - Iím not in the market myself (still chugging along with my 2013 Chevy diesel) but a guy I work with bought a 2019 Ram and if I was in the market today - Iíd go with a 2020 Ram 2500. Amazing tech, gorgeous interior, plenty of power with all those creature comforts. They also have a 4 door extended cab with tons of space for passengers AND gear. I havenít heard a 2500 - his is a 1500 gasser so thatís naturally very quiet.

Good luck in your search!
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Old 01-27-2020, 05:49 PM   #11
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I purchased a 2019 RAM 2500 Limited with a Cummins after taking a look at all of them. Each make has pros and cons. We thought the interior was nicer on the RAM. The GM was inferior in this area. Ford has massaging seats. None of the others have that feature.

I thought the RAM diesel was quieter, especially on the highway, than the Ford. And we absolutely love the RamBoxes available only on the RAM, of course.

And I agree with your comment about the safety features. Adaptive cruise control, cameras all over, crash avoidance technology. Very nice features to have!

You can hardly go wrong with any of them. It may depend on which dealer you happen to like.

Wishing you well in your search and keep us posted on your final choice.
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Old 01-27-2020, 05:51 PM   #12
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Hi

Have a F250, like it, would get another. The 2020's have a new transmission. That can be good / bad depending on how it works out. They also have several things as standard (lane departure warning) that were optional back in 2017.

The one thing I would think a bit on is the F350. Money wise there isn't much cost. The payload bump might make sense.

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Old 01-27-2020, 06:31 PM   #13
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I think all three make a decent truck. The pros and cons are minor or just personal taste. What I don't like is deleting $70K+ from by savings account. So I prefer to make the best deal I can and then take the 0% financing deal. Ram and Chevy are usually the first ones to make the offer with Ford & GMC waiting till the end of the sales year at end of summer. Your choice...
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Old 01-27-2020, 06:46 PM   #14
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Consider the RAM

Brian, we also have a 2019 RAM 2500 like Hans627 but with the 6.4 Hemi. Ours is a Laramie, a trim level down but it does have the Level 2 Interior package, Safety Group and Tow Technology package.

We did a 2500 mile trip last August to Rocky Mountain National Park towing our 2019 27’ Globetrotter with no complaints. It had plenty of power (now with the 8 spd trans) and towed like a dream. I don’t think you would be disappointed with the RAM in any flavor!
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:36 PM   #15
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One more thing... Thereís a thread on the HDRAM Forum about towing with the 6.4 thatís good for reference. This guys pulling a 5th Wheel and very happy. Other bonus is the 6.4 is about $10K less and around 900 lbs. more payload. Our 2500 has 2940 lbs.

Hereís the link: https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?t....286/post-7860
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:54 PM   #16
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I believe the Cummins engine in the new Ram is using the same Bosch CP4.2 fuel pump as the Ford Powerstroke. GM just changed to a new Denso fuel system. Jury is out on that system. May turn out to be very good.
I was not commenting on the pump design itself but rather what it takes to change one! The V8 diesels are so complex and compact that if you are unfortunate enough to need a major repair it is going to really hurt. The flat rate time for replacing the pump on the Ford is something like 18 hours. It is simply easier to get to things on the inline 6 design that the Cummins uses.
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Old 01-27-2020, 08:55 PM   #17
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Got to love these TV threads - They are a hoot to read; Lots of great info and of course strong opinions. In another of these threads, someone posited that it was equivalent to arguing, "What is the best beer."

Many ways to slice this. Trading up for tech bells & whistles is a hard sell, but the newest crop really of trucks seems to have them in spades.

I believe diesel offers some really nice to have towing features (torque + exhaust brakes). But they come with a premium price tag. Diesel power makes for a poor daily drive because the back end exhaust treatment systems don't like short hop driving.

If you are going to pay a shop for maintenance, it really doesn't matter which diesel you buy. If you are going to do your own PM's then you have to look more carefully at the options. If you want torque/hp bragging rights you have to go with a 2019 or 2020. The honest question is does anyone really need those power levels to tow anything AS makes?

I have the luxury (sort of) to own a dedicated TV. My choice was a new left over (2018) Ram 3500 6.7 Cummins turbo CRD. Plenty of power, cargo capacity.

All the 19's & 20's except Duramax run CP4.2 HPFP's. I've dismantled and studied the pieces parts in a CP4.1 (ex VW) and would not want to run any vehicle that used a Bosch CP4.x HPFP. I freely admit this is a bias I've developed based on reading about a significant number of VW HPFP failures. It was disappointing to see Cummins jumping on the CP4.x bandwagon just after Duramax said, "Hell no".

Good luck with your choice. Run a lubricity additive and you'll probably do ok.
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:23 AM   #18
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I was not commenting on the pump design itself but rather what it takes to change one! The V8 diesels are so complex and compact that if you are unfortunate enough to need a major repair it is going to really hurt. The flat rate time for replacing the pump on the Ford is something like 18 hours. It is simply easier to get to things on the inline 6 design that the Cummins uses.
I’m sure that’s true...but replacing the pump and down line components on either truck will be pretty expensive. All three of these engines produce a lot of power and torque. To do that the fuel rail pressures are crazy high, like 30K PSI or more. The HPFP relies on the diesel fuel for lubrication and The Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel doesn’t have much lubricity.

The fuel system on all these high performance Diesel engines really has to be Cared for. Use a lubricity additive and drain the water separator once / month and it’s likely a moot point.

I once heard a light hearted comment that the perfect diesel truck would have the Cummins engine (RAM), the Allison transmission (GM), and the Ford body/chassis ��
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Old 01-28-2020, 06:38 AM   #19
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I have a 2018 F250 diesel, so that is my bias. The good news is all are good trucks. No bad decisions.
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Old 01-28-2020, 06:43 AM   #20
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I would buy the truck that has the best and biggest service department where you live. Ford sells more trucks than anybody
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