The Anti - Tesla

[Prettygood]

Originally Posted by Bobbo

You misunderstand me. I need a 300 mile range on a single, full, charge, then a 15 minute recharge to 90%. I occasionally drive between 500 and 600 miles in a day when going cross country. Going 300 miles then recharging in 15 minutes will allow me to keep doing that. Stopping every 150 miles for a 35 to 40 minute recharge won't cut it.

For those of us that don’t mind a 1-hour recharge, we will be purchasing earlier. I think you are a decade out from believing an electric truck is a good solution for you. The rest of the criteria is going to be here in the next 24-36 months

[waninae39]

check out auto line , episode 2770 timeline 1:18
http://www.autoline.tv/daily/

Nikola Shows Badger EV Pickup
900HP, 900 FtLb torque, 8000 lb pull, 2 sec 0-60

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by Prettygood

For those of us that don’t mind a 1-hour recharge, we will be purchasing earlier. I think you are a decade out from believing an electric truck is a good solution for you. The rest of the criteria is going to be here in the next 24-36 months

Thank you for accepting my stated needs rather than telling me to change them. I agree that a decade may be a good time estimate to reach the point that I need it to be. I will keep watching. In the meantime, a hybrid could be a solution if they keep developing. That could become reasonable in a much shorter time frame. While it still has an ICE, it also reclaims energy while braking. A decent middle ground start.

[Bgibbs]

I commuted for years in a diesel truck long before we got the Airstream. I like my truck and the 20+mpg that it gets. Wouldn't have it any other way. My second car is a 911 Carrera S but it only gets driven on sunny days. Never been in the rain!

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

In your dreams only. You will be lucky to get 50 percent on a quick charge of an hour or so.
That 50 percent will burn up faster towing .
So now you are draging out the genarator or trying to find an adhock situation to recharge fully.
So I keep asking why anyone with a modicum of common sense would subject themselves to so much needless hassle.

An inconvenient fact.
It takes 600 lbs battery storage to equal the energy output of 1 gallon of gasoline.
I can squirt 1 gl. Gas into tha tank in a blink while it will take hours to charge tha batteries.
That is the main reason Locomotives are diesel over electric.
Add to that that initial outlay for an electric vehicle is 20 percent higher.
Great for golf carts not for serious transportation.

[Belbein]

... the Badger wins on looks.

[out of sight]

Right now I think most people would agree that the Cybertruck is about the most ridiculous looking vehicle on the market. That may change, however, because there are good engineering reasons for the design and that may result in it eventually becoming accepted and cool looking.

[perryg114]

Trucks are headed in the direction of being increasing non-user friendly. In the old days, they tried to keep the bed height low so you could load stuff easily and same goes for entrance doors. So now you have to have a fork lift to load and unload the truck and a ladder to get in and out of it.



Perry

[out of sight]

I was just thinking the same thing. A while ago a guy rolled into the campsite with a GM 3500 dually from around 1990. The bed was really low and he had it loaded with his tools. You could walk up to it and easily pick out the tool you wanted. Awesome. I had to purchase a Gorilla Ladder to access the bed of my RAM 2500. The Cybertruck seems even worse with that slanted bed wall. I can't see any kind of tradesman who needs to access the bed frequently going for a Cybertruck.

[idoco]

Originally Posted by Bobbo

You misunderstand me. I need a 300 mile range on a single, full, charge, then a 15 minute recharge to 90%. I occasionally drive between 500 and 600 miles in a day when going cross country. Going 300 miles then recharging in 15 minutes will allow me to keep doing that. Stopping every 150 miles for a 35 to 40 minute recharge won't cut it.

Ahh...thanks for the clarification. Currently travelling three hundred miles on a single charge, while towing a camper, is not feasible. With that being said we have on occasion gone 500 miles, in a single day, while towing a 24' aluminum camper.

Here's an example. Kansas City to Indianapolis. 495 miles. Ten hours total time including charging stops.

We have an older Tesla. With the new batteries and chargers the total time would be reduced to less than nine hours, including charging time.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

An inconvenient fact.
It takes 600 lbs battery storage to equal the energy output of 1 gallon of gasoline.
I can squirt 1 gl. Gas into tha tank in a blink while it will take hours to charge tha batteries.
That is the main reason Locomotives are diesel over electric.
Add to that that initial outlay for an electric vehicle is 20 percent higher.
Great for golf carts not for serious transportation.

X2. When will the Greenies wake up and realize that wishful thinking doesn't cut it? And that we have to move to nuclear power (which is all developed and ready to provide) if we are to really save on power production emissions?

[Rocinante]

It's fine to make clear demands as to what hurdles the technology must pass before you're interested, but don't make the mistake of assuming your hurdles are the same as everyone else's.

For example, while our current Airstream would be heavy for a BEV, we'd be perfectly willing to downsize from our 7,600 pound (rated) 27FB as part of shifting to a BEV. A 23FB would do nicely, assuming the weight works out. In addition, There are also other lighter trailers out there, of other brands, in the same size range. So, high trailer weight capacity would not represent the critical hurdle for us that it does for some.

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by Cerberus

X2. When will the Greenies wake up and realize that wishful thinking doesn't cut it? And that we have to move to nuclear power (which is all developed and ready to provide) if we are to really save on power production emissions?

The biggest problem for the future of EV trucks is that one day the Greenies may wake up to find the theory of man-made global warming has collapsed. As we speak the theory is in trouble. It seems that the data doesn't match the theory. Then you may be left with an expensive vehicle with little reason for its existence. That said, I think there are useful reasons to own an EV, assuming they will one day become cost competitive. I'd like to have one as a second car that I can charge at home and not have to worry about vehicle maintenance.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

An inconvenient fact.
It takes 600 lbs battery storage to equal the energy output of 1 gallon of gasoline.
I can squirt 1 gl. Gas into the tank in a blink while it will take hours to charge the batteries.

Two separate claims.

The weight one is incomplete. In the real world, it isn't just about batteries and gallons of fuel. Sure it is, if you are in the battery design business. But batteries don't make vehicles go down the road, power trains do. Figure out how much your diesel truck power train weighs (engine, transmission, ancillaries, additional structure to hold it all up). Then compare that to an electric motor. Now do a net calculation, with batteries plus EV power train, compared to fuel/engine/power train. It is no longer 100 to 1, it is a fraction of that.

Now consider how that energy (battery or fuel content) is being converted to useful work. Consider the efficiency of an ICE, compared to an electric motor. We could use a 3 times factor, just as a rule of thumb.

If you haven't got the answer yet, you can look it up. The ICE is still more efficient, weight wise. The lines won't cross for some years yet. But development continues, at least on one of the contenders, and the trend line is pretty obvious.

The second point was about refueling time. Your gallon of diesel is good for what, 15 miles in round figures? Use an EV rate of 30 kw-hr for 100 miles, so 4.5 kw-hr for the same fifteen miles. I know, your diesel is special and goes more than 15 miles on that gallon, but let's keep the math simple.

So I need to put 4.5 kw-hr in my EV, and you think it takes hours? I have 200 kw chargers close by home, but even using one of the more common 120 kw chargers, you still think that takes hours? Not more like a few minutes? This is just the on-the-road charging question; the vast majority of the time the EV charges more slowly at home, and there is no trip to the gas station required.

[Life is a Highway]

Fisker teases an electric pickup truck


https://electrek.co/2019/08/09/fiske...c-pickup-truck

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by jcl

Two separate claims.

The weight one is incomplete. In the real world, it isn't just about batteries and gallons of fuel. Sure it is, if you are in the battery design business. But batteries don't make vehicles go down the road, power trains do. Figure out how much your diesel truck power train weighs (engine, transmission, ancillaries, additional structure to hold it all up). Then compare that to an electric motor. Now do a net calculation, with batteries plus EV power train, compared to fuel/engine/power train. It is no longer 100 to 1, it is a fraction of that.

Now consider how that energy (battery or fuel content) is being converted to useful work. Consider the efficiency of an ICE, compared to an electric motor. We could use a 3 times factor, just as a rule of thumb.

If you haven't got the answer yet, you can look it up. The ICE is still more efficient, weight wise. The lines won't cross for some years yet. But development continues, at least on one of the contenders, and the trend line is pretty obvious.

The second point was about refueling time. Your gallon of diesel is good for what, 15 miles in round figures? Use an EV rate of 30 kw-hr for 100 miles, so 4.5 kw-hr for the same fifteen miles. I know, your diesel is special and goes more than 15 miles on that gallon, but let's keep the math simple.

So I need to put 4.5 kw-hr in my EV, and you think it takes hours? I have 200 kw chargers close by home, but even using one of the more common 120 kw chargers, you still think that takes hours? Not more like a few minutes? This is just the on-the-road charging question; the vast majority of the time the EV charges more slowly at home, and there is no trip to the gas station required.

He’s quoting stuff from 1950. I’m done with this thread.

[DewTheDew]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

In your dreams only. You will be lucky to get 50 percent on a quick charge of an hour or so.
That 50 percent will burn up faster towing .
So now you are draging out the genarator or trying to find an adhock situation to recharge fully.
So I keep asking why anyone with a modicum of common sense would subject themselves to so much needless hassle.

I really, really wish these threads would not devolve into a couple of posters with incorrect information and rigid, high-end requirements that even most consumer trucks to not match today, coming on to spout about how these new ideas are just crap.

Here is the deal. No, they are not suitable for the most extreme towing days you ever drive once per year or so. No, they are not suitable for towing in the wilds of the west where there a no towns with more than 500 people for a 600 mile radius. We get it. The vehicle makers get it. YOU ARE NOT THEIR MARKET. Do you feel better now? You do not need to jump on every EV thread and complain because you are not their market focus. The 95% of people whose demands are far, far less stringent than yours, are the market.

Thank you.

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by DewTheDew

I really, really wish these threads would not devolve into a couple of posters with incorrect information and rigid, high-end requirements that even most consumer trucks to not match today, coming on to spout about how these new ideas are just crap.

Here is the deal. No, they are not suitable for the most extreme towing days you ever drive once per year or so. No, they are not suitable for towing in the wilds of the west where there a no towns with more than 500 people for a 600 mile radius. We get it. The vehicle makers get it. YOU ARE NOT THEIR MARKET. Do you feel better now? You do not need to jump on every EV thread and complain because you are not their market focus. The 95% of people whose demands are far, far less stringent than yours, are the market.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by DewTheDew

I really, really wish these threads would not devolve into a couple of posters with incorrect information and rigid, high-end requirements that even most consumer trucks to not match today, coming on to spout about how these new ideas are just crap.

Here is the deal. No, they are not suitable for the most extreme towing days you ever drive once per year or so. No, they are not suitable for towing in the wilds of the west where there a no towns with more than 500 people for a 600 mile radius. We get it. The vehicle makers get it. YOU ARE NOT THEIR MARKET. Do you feel better now? You do not need to jump on every EV thread and complain because you are not their market focus. The 95% of people whose demands are far, far less stringent than yours, are the market.

Thank you.

I did not complain simply interject some balance.
It gets a bit ridiculous reading nonsensical promotion of the EV which inevidable always gets down to the political narrative.
Stop promoting it as some kind of panacea when it is not.
It is a long long way from being mainstream if ever.
It is neither more eco friendly than the ICE and it certainly is no where as convinient to own and operate.
95 percent of the market is not interested in it and 75 percent can't afford one.
You want one buy one I could care less.

[DewTheDew]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

I did not complain simply interject some balance.
It gets a bit ridiculous reading nonsensical promotion of the EV which inevidable always gets down to the political narrative.
Stop promoting it as some kind of panacea when it is not.
It is a long long way from being mainstream if ever.
It is neither more eco friendly than the ICE and it certainly is no where as convinient to own and operate.
95 percent of the market is not interested in it and 75 percent can't afford one.
You want one buy one I could care less.

If by "balance" you mean "things that are not facts" then sure, you are doing great. Most of the discussions here are just because people are interested. These threads rarely enter the "save the world" realm. If you do not care, then why post? You are free to do so, of course. I suggest that you try driving an EV for a week or so before you claim that they are nowhere as convenient to own and operate. If you have never used one, how can you make that claim?

Thanks!