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Old 07-22-2018, 04:11 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Countryboy59 View Post
The gas engine weighs 580lb. The Powerstroke diesel weighs 920lb. Iíve driven the F350 gas and diesel versions in Lariat crew cabs with similar options very recently and I can say the ride is identical. Both are stickered very close to 3000lb payload.

You can definitely feel the 85 extra horsepower of the diesel however.


Itís not the horsepower but the torque that makes the difference.
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Old 07-22-2018, 04:26 PM   #22
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Itís not the horsepower but the torque that makes the difference.
LOL. Here we go again...
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Old 07-22-2018, 04:36 PM   #23
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May I ask why you went that route?

Just curious as I am planning to take a test drive with the Cummins also.

Thanks!
Worth noting that based on 2017 market share date, with RAM at 21%, almost 8 out of 10 pickup buyers didn't go that route.

I like the Cummins engine, and I say that having had a long career in the Caterpillar world. Only problem I see is that to get a Cummins in a pickup, you need to buy a RAM. Some of us consider the engine better than the rest of the truck.

By all means, test them all, and buy what you like. There aren't really any bad trucks out there these days.
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Old 07-22-2018, 07:43 PM   #24
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My guess is the weight of the diesel made the difference in feel. My '17 F250 rides rough empty, but just the other day, I put 320 pounds of salt on the bed and the difference it made was amazing
When not towing or hauling heavy stuff I run the tires on our F-250 diesel @ 60 psi.Huge difference in the ride from funning them at 80 psi.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:46 PM   #25
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So was the test drive with long bed or short bed? I'm assuming the F350 was a long bed and the F250 was short bed. Long beds ride better but the F350 shouldn't ride better than the F250. F250s have lighter spring ratings.

As for spring capacity comparison and saying the F250 and F350 have the same springs, I know this; I own a 2018 F350, 6.7 diesel crew-cab long bed, XLT Premium, SRW w/gooseneck prep, trailer tow camera,, etc. No sunroof.
I ordered it with the 10,000 GVWR rating so it will not be considered a commercial vehicle on some roads with limits due to some state's rules.

The 10,000 GVWR package consists of just a door jam sticker saying 10,000.

It still has the same suspension as the 11,600 GVWR F350. At 80 PSI in the tires it rides real stiff. At 65 it rides just like a F250 with 80 PSI.

Last Wednesday, I towed a 37' dove tail gooseneck with a John Deere 5510 187 miles and the helper springs on the F350 rear did not even come into contact with the spring perch that puts them into affect. The rear settled down some but not that bad (see pic). We're talking about almost 16,000 lb. trailer weight (tractor weight centered over the front trailer axle).

That makes me think the F250 and F350 springs on back are indeed different due to the weight carrying differences.
I see F250s all the time sagging with WD hitches to compensate for sagging. Just saying.
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Old 07-23-2018, 06:08 PM   #26
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The primary leaf spring ( the one used when not loaded)in the spring pack is virtually the same on both F250 and F350.The difference comes in with the springs used in progression when weight is applied.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:17 AM   #27
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Worth noting that based on 2017 market share date, with RAM at 21%, almost 8 out of 10 pickup buyers didn't go that route.

I like the Cummins engine, and I say that having had a long career in the Caterpillar world. Only problem I see is that to get a Cummins in a pickup, you need to buy a RAM. Some of us consider the engine better than the rest of the truck.

By all means, test them all, and buy what you like. There aren't really any bad trucks out there these days.
The Cummins is also the lowest power of the three major diesels.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:18 AM   #28
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LOL. Here we go again...
Yeah, too bad we donít use torque right off the crankshaft. They invented gears way back when. 😎
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:19 AM   #29
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Itís not the horsepower but the torque that makes the difference.
No itís not. Itís the horsepower that pulls a given load up the hill the fastest. Torque is good when youíre at the bar comparing spreadsheets though.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:37 AM   #30
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Great explanation of relationship between HP Torque and Work

Torque and Horsepower - you can't have one without the other. This link provides an explanation of the mathematical relationship of HP, torque, and work.

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine...and_torque.htm
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:51 AM   #31
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Torque and Horsepower - you can't have one without the other. This link provides an explanation of the mathematical relationship of HP, torque, and work.

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine...and_torque.htm
I do these calculations all day at work. Force and work done are different units, one is static and the other is over time.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:56 AM   #32
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Go to the gauntlet test for the diesels. The Cummins does just as well in overall performance and in some cases better. The issues are not just HP and torque. How the transmissions are geared etc makes a difference as well. Also it is the amount of horsepower over the entire range of rpms that needs to be considered.
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Old 07-25-2018, 07:26 AM   #33
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Whether it's the F250 or the F350, you will get a better ride with the FX4 package. It's set up for offload use and a softer shocks allows for a better ride. I purchased the F250 6.7l with Lariat Ultimate package. I'm very impressed with the performance, fit, finish, and options. We've put over 14k miles in 8 months with no problems. This was an upgrade from the 2006 Chevy 2500 Duramax/Allison setup.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:29 AM   #34
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Weight and distribution

The weight of the diesel is the difference you feel. I have an F-350, and a 26' Airstream Argosy ('73). The trailer calms down the ride significantly, and you'll find that to be true with the F-250, but it will tend to pull down the rear more, and slightly lift the front.



The 6.7 is a better diesel than the 6.0 and 6.4. Less troublesome so far, say my contractor friends (and those that convert them to wreckers). I admire the Cummins diesel, but the Dodge surrounding them are made of cheap materials.



I don't know enough about Chevy 2500/3500s to form an opinion, except that judging by resale values, they don't hold their value as well.


There is the overall enjoyment of the ownership experience, but also the operational costs, and the residual values. All of those have to be taken into consideration. I like my insurance company, and their service has been good. Ford dealers, like others, are only interested in serving new(er) vehicles for the large part. The downside to diesels are that there are fewer good mechanics, in my experience.
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:16 AM   #35
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Smooth ride? Really?

I have a 2013 F250 Supercab 4 x4 with a Powerstroke. It is an extremely rough ride. Very harsh - as if the axles are solid to the frame. Iíve purchased high end Foxx shocks and dropped the tire pressure to as low as 45 pounds. Iím amazed at the posts that speak about how great the ride is. What am I missing?
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Old 07-25-2018, 12:14 PM   #36
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I have a 2013 F250 Supercab 4 x4 with a Powerstroke. It is an extremely rough ride. Very harsh - as if the axles are solid to the frame. Iíve purchased high end Foxx shocks and dropped the tire pressure to as low as 45 pounds. Iím amazed at the posts that speak about how great the ride is. What am I missing?
Your missing out on feeling the redesigned suspension and cab improvements they did starting with the 2017 F250's. Rride is night and day better then even the 2016 and earlier models.... I did an exhaustive test drive of several "great deals" on 2016 and 2015 models before purchase of our 2017 F250 King Ranch Superduty 4x4 with the FX4 Off Road package. Wife and I found the newer model to offer much better ride empty. We have 36K miles on it now, 16K miles pulling our 28'FC over the past 1.5 years...very happy. Have you taken a test drive yet?
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:47 PM   #37
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I just picked up a brand new 2018 f350 lariat long bed 4x4 diesel, all new fully boxed frame, Dana axels, rides significantly better than my 2011. Amazing features and ride quality. Absolutely amazing
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Old 07-26-2018, 05:06 AM   #38
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I have a 2013 F250 Supercab 4 x4 with a Powerstroke. It is an extremely rough ride. Very harsh - as if the axles are solid to the frame. Iíve purchased high end Foxx shocks and dropped the tire pressure to as low as 45 pounds. Iím amazed at the posts that speak about how great the ride is. What am I missing?
You are missing the improvements in the 2017 and newer F250/350. I test drove one like yours several years ago, and the ride was terrible. The new versions are very different.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:18 AM   #39
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I spent months researching every detail before ordering our F250 KR crew cab diesel short bed. Was very concerned about ride quality due to various front spring choices. The F350 gets you the stiffest front springs plus an extra leaf spring and a door sticker where you can choose the 10,000 number depending on your states tax methodology. I wanted snow plow option for the resale plus FX4 and that jumped the springs to the highest number. After testing all four combinations of bed and engine type, I can tell you that the new aluminum body system architecture makes this unrecognizable to the 2016 and prior years. This is a comfortable truck that we have no problem recommending in the high spring configuration. This means the F250 with snow or the F350 ride the same as the helper spring only comes into play when the payload is heavy enough to get to that compression level.

As to Ford vs RAM, we needed the totally flat rear floor because the crew cab is really a large kennel for two dogs on long trips. That said, my take on the two after years of buying all 3 commercial vehicles in quantity food work has been as follows:
1) Ford is most expensive to buy but the body lasts the longest under use. The new Ford produced 6.7 remains to prove itself but itís off to a good start. Iíve never, ever, regretted a Ford decision either van, pickup or 5000 series.
2) Dodge/RAM is a fine cost effective choice where the engine can get transplanted to another use after everything around it falls apart. Cummins name applies to the big truck. This engine is a wholly different animal all together but still fine. No issues with it but itís not a semi.
3) GM stands for generally mediocre and just expect to replace brakes and brake components frequently. Body lasts longer than Dodge and not as long as Ford. The Duramax is my engine of choice and wish it came with Fords.
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:43 PM   #40
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May I ask why you went that route?

Just curious as I am planning to take a test drive with the Cummins also.

Thanks!
Yesterday I took a test drive in a RAM 2500. I have now taken a test drive in each of the big three's heavy duty trucks. While I try to be objective, and realizing I already have a RAM 1500, my observation is the RAM 2500 rode better and handled better than the Ford or GM. This could be because the RAM doesn't use leaf springs but has coil springs on the rear axle.

Not sure which way to go. The RAM 2500 is at the end of it's model cycle. The same with the GM. The Ford Superduties are at the beginning, being redesigned for the 2017 model year, and thus have more features. RAM and GM realizing they will have new models in 2020 have their trucks discounted more.

Still collecting data and really appreciate everyone's input! Thanks!
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