Tesla Pickup Truck II

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by Prettygood

How about you take your own advice?? You started the blanket “it won’t work” statements. You are likely on the edge of extreme use case, with the largest of trailers pulling the longest distance at a stretch.

For more people, an EV truck will work and work well.

I am. It in any way ‘telling you what to do’ but I am saying what you do isn’t the most common (or likely safe) thing that most people will do.

If by "take your own advice" you mean don't tell other people to change their needs to fit what I think they should do, I do take my own advice. I have never, once, told anyone to avoid an EV vehicle because it doesn't do what I need. If you mean something else, you will have to be more explicit, because I have no idea what you are saying.

[Belbein]

Originally Posted by mikeinca

you didn't want to mention self-driving passenger cars I will. I can't think of any other option on a vehicle that I would want less.

It's not that I wouldn't want one for me. I wouldn't want all the other thoughtless, ignorant, uncaring, illprepared yahoos on the roads to drive them on the same roads I'm on. If nothing else, I don't believe the insurance industry will put up with them. Imagine the liability issues!

But ... I don't want to talk about it. Or cryptocurrency.

[Belbein]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Thanks for the sideways compliment

It wasn't a "sideways compliment" at all. I don't take debate as a blood sport or as a personal attack (usually). But truly: My wife and I read and use all of y'all's tips. You guys are very thoughtful about what you do and what you write about. It's helped us immeasurably.

Originally Posted by Rocinante

My comment wasn't harsh. It was on target.

Ah. This is the "But lady, your baby DOES look like a monkey!" argument. But even if it does look like a monkey, that doesn't mean its not harsh. Try: "Hey lady, would your baby like a banana?"

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Musk fanboy

I tried to move this away from Musk, because I have the sense that he's the kind of person who trolls the internet searching for mentions of his name. I certainly don't want anyone to think I'm accusing him of criminality, because I have no reason to believe there's any basis for that or that I would have the information to judge.

I agree, he's certainly doing well promoting his company. In fact, there was a press release this morning about how their stock had risen and one of the officers of Tesla talked about how it was going to reach $1 gadzillion/share in no time! Which made me think of the phrase "pump and dump."

Originally Posted by Rocinante

self-driving cars and cryptocurrency

Oh, Teslas are, like Rickshaws, they come with a driver? Come on, self-driving cars and cryptocurrency are two of the three Horsemen of the Apocalypse* proclaimed by all of the Brave New Technology thinkers as the Harbingers of the New World! Since the third is EVs, I think my comment was (to quote you, my Airstream brother) directly "on target." Even if I didn't comment.

Anyway, this was fun. Come to Atlanta and let's go tip a bottle of single malt unblended Irish whiskey and debate further. If we could invite everybody else here, that would be great. Though I think I'm going to need a bigger bottle.

*I know there are four. Poetic license.

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by Belbein

————snip for brevity———-

Oh, Teslas are, like Rickshaws, they come with a driver? Come on, self-driving cars and cryptocurrency are two of the three Horsemen of the Apocalypse* proclaimed by all of the Brave New Technology thinkers as the Harbingers of the New World! Since the third is EVs, I think my comment was (to quote you, my Airstream brother) directly "on target." Even if I didn't comment.



*———snip for brevity————

*I know there are four. Poetic license.

I suspect the fourth one is the personal smart phone—it occupies all our attention so we won’t notice the rapid approach of the other three...

[ohmman]

One reason I don't come to this forum often is that I tow with an EV and as such, I'm interested in the EV towing threads. However, every one seems to end up like this one. Loads of misinformation, lots of arguing, and I just absolutely don't get it.

I don't agree with much of what Bobbo said in this thread as far as how his choices would work for me, but I agree with him wholeheartedly when he says that it's best not to tell others what they should do. I'm glad that Bobbo and others have something that works for them. I have something that works for me. I don't like being told that it "doesn't work" or that I can only go campground to campground or on trips under 200 miles, etc. because I experience the reality of towing with an EV and I know these are misconceptions.

So to the points of other well spoken posters upthread, we should try not to tell people what they should or should not do, and should also try not to tell other people what cannot be done, especially if we personally don't have experience doing that thing.

There is a Model X likely to come out this summer with extended range, potentially up to 400 miles. That would bring my towing range up to 200 miles with my 22 Sport, and would definitely make me upgrade. I am not in the market for a Cybertruck, but since the Model Y is now at 315 miles, I assume we'll see a Model X with more than 350 miles, and that suggests that the estimated specs on the Cybertruck will be met.

[Rzrbrn]

Ohmman, I did not know there is an EV towing thread. I will try to hunt it down. I wonder if there is an EV towing forum somewhere...

[AZ camper]

No thanks, I like my diesel.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by Belbein

~~
--Trips under 50 miles, etc.: Even assuming that I accept the authority of your citation, I think it's beside the point for two reasons. First, we're talking about TOWING, not going to the grocery store. Second, if you could guarantee that your only use of the car is to go to the corner grocery store and back, then the limitations of an EV are acceptable. Except that you can't. My brother is a first-adopter who keeps buying hybrid cars. He lives relatively close to work and takes his hybrid. But if he has to run an unexpected errand on the way to or from, he immediately has to worry about his mileage, and that's within his relatively short daily trips. When he has to travel even to suburbs, he drives his SO's car, because that one can be filled up anywhere. What if you're at work and have to make a side trip to pick up your SO or a kid at school or that gallon of soy milk or go to the bank … all of a sudden the mileage limitations are daunting.
~~

What sort of bizarre hybrid is this that can't be refueled? If it's some fuel-cell experimental toy it's hardly representative even of the EV crowd.

[skyguyscott]

It is indeed curious so many avowed ICE drivers frequent this thread.

Come out of the closet, it's ok.

[Bullwinkle]

What bothers me about the Cybertruck is its plate steel, sledgehammer tough construction. At first that sounds good and very strong, but then I remember that modern vehicles are designed to crumple to absorb the energy of a collision rather than transfer it to the passengers. Also since this will be sold as a heavy duty truck, it won’t be crash tested. I don’t want to be Elon’s crash test dummy.
Also visibility seems to rely on cameras rather than mirrors and I find that problematic, particularly in nasty weather.
Electric vehicles may indeed be the future, but they are not yet ready for prime time.

[us3rnam3]

The Tesla truck will sell regardless how well it might tow an Airstream. Holeman Jenkins has a current complimentary article in the WSJ about Tesla. He notes that Tesla's Model 3 accounts for 80% of the electric vehicles sold. and "A Honda executive said the Tesla Model 3 wouldn't be selling either if it had a Honda, Toyota or Ford badge on the Hood". Elon Musk is a marketing genius. Wouldn't it be fun to be able to buy all the toys that guy has?

[HRTKD]

I'm on my second EV. The first was a 2015 Nissan Leaf and the second is a 2019 Nissan Leaf with a maximum SOC - so far- of 270 miles. Both were/are great cars that I use for commuting and running errands. I don't drive them too far outside town. Great use case for an EV.

My tow vehicle is an F-350 with the 6.7L diesel that gives me about 600 miles of range on the flats when towing my 11K toy hauler.

An 11K toy hauler is a bad use case for an EV tow vehicle that is comparable to - at best - a 3/4 ton pickup.

I do mostly boondocking where there are no charging pedestals. I don't think I could carry enough solar panels to make up for that. Bad use case for an EV tow vehicle.

On most of my trips, I'm going over at least one mountain pass that is over 10,000' elevation. Bad use case for an EV tow vehicle.

I read earlier in the thread that someone mentioned charging their EV tow vehicle at the campground. Really? How many of you use an EMS to guard against electricity problems from poorly maintained campground electrical systems? Now hook up one or more electric vehicles to that system and see how it performs. Oh, it's only 110v, that will increase your charge time by a factor of at least two and perhaps has bad as four. Bad use case for an EV tow vehicle.

Also mentioned earlier was the fact that every charging station I've seen so far has been a parking spot. It's hard to fit the tow vehicle and the trailer in a parking spot. Creating charging stations that accommodate both truck and trailer (without unhitching) will require a lot of space. I complain already about the lousy setup of RV lanes at the truck stops (I go to the big rig lanes most of the time now). I can't imagine that they'll do a better job on charging "lanes" for EV truck/trailer combinations.

Maybe in 20 years they'll have something that can tow a heavier trailer like I do. I'm open to that, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Belbein]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

What sort of bizarre hybrid is this that can't be refueled? If it's some fuel-cell experimental toy it's hardly representative even of the EV crowd.

You're right. I misspoke. It`s pure EV.

[cesmpt]

Hey there. Great info. Thanks for making the numbers easy to understand. I bought my Model 3 in 12/18 and it had a ton of flaws. Love the car and happy with the brand. I just bought a Bambi 22 Sport.

I am torn as I need to find a tow vehicle. It needs to be able to tow 5000#.

I don’t want to throw down a ton of $ on an ICE Tow Vehicle since I believe the CyberTruck will be a great option. Has anyone had any success with a Model X? I’m towing my AS from So-Cal to VT in May and I think I need something with good power and efficiency.



QUOTE=Mik;2328094]If it is a 200 kwh battery, should have reasonable cruising distance on a daily basis. Probably recharge after 3 hours of driving at 66.7 mph to add the next 200 miles while having a meal and bio break. Bet it will take about 35 to 40 minutes to recover to an 80% to 90% charge and then drive down to about 20% and do it again in 200 mile driving bursts. Then start fresh the next day after an overnight charge and a good night's sleep. The big issues are energy density and having enough power to go over mountains. That technology will likely improve and get cheaper too.

My F-150 gets 10 to 11 mpg when towing our Airstream, and the Tesla Truck may get the mpg equivalent of 30 to 40 in cost of electricity. That's a huge savings if you tow 10 to 15 thousand miles a year - not hard to do with a cross country round trip and a few more outings. And the truck cost is not that bad compared to the competition.

I plan to get one, and have a deposit down. May wait until the production run looks good though... Bought my model 3 June 2019 and it is excellent - gives me confidence to buy the truck. I want to have a power wall included in the rig!

The triangle pulling the oval will be strange though...[/QUOTE]

[blahargoue]

Much will have to do with infrastructure development. California has probably the best electric vehicle charging infrastructure in the nation. Yet this past Thanksgiving weekend, Christmas eve, day and the day after, Tesla owners were stranded along I-5 and Hwy 101 for up to 11 hours just waiting in line at the the super stations in Kettleman City and San Luis Obispo. Even with Tesla responding with their portable units, the wait was unacceptable. We waited for friends on Thanksgiving but they never arrived. They spent 9 hours sleeping in line at Kettleman City. They finally charged and then returned home rather than risk the same fate on the return trip. They said they learned their lesson. They will drive their Hyundai Sonta next year.

We have a long way to go in developing the charging infrastructure especially in rural America. Some parts of the country are nearly there but other parts have a long way to go.

[jcl]

If one wants to tow 10,000 lbs that is a challenge for EVs designed as passenger vehicles. It isn’t an EV issue. The appropriate EV is something more like a Freightliner EM2 with additional battery packs

I dont understand complaining about EV charging spot access if one is towing, that would be like complaining about mall parking spot sizes. If you go to truck fueling spots now you will likely want EV truck recharging spots. They are coming.

Mountain passes are perfect for EVs since they regenerate on the descent and don’t waste all that energy

It won’t take 20 years

[HRTKD]

Originally Posted by blahargoue

Much will have to do with infrastructure development. California has probably the best electric vehicle charging infrastructure in the nation. Yet this past Thanksgiving weekend, Christmas eve, day and the day after, Tesla owners were stranded along I-5 and Hwy 101 for up to 11 hours just waiting in line at the the super stations in Kettleman City and San Luis Obispo. Even with Tesla responding with their portable units, the wait was unacceptable. We waited for friends on Thanksgiving but they never arrived. They spent 9 hours sleeping in line at Kettleman City. They finally charged and then returned home rather than risk the same fate on the return trip. They said they learned their lesson. They will drive their Hyundai Sonta next year.

We have a long way to go in developing the charging infrastructure especially in rural America. Some parts of the country are nearly there but other parts have a long way to go.

Infrastructure is key, as you said. I looked at driving from Denver, CO to Casper, WY in my Leaf. I would have to charge up somewhere. Cheyenne would be a good spot. There is only one charging station that ChargePoint.com is showing in Cheyenne and it's at a Harley Davidson dealership of all places. Not even the Nissan dealer in Cheyenne or Casper is showing a charging station and I thought all Nissan dealers had one. Zero stations in Casper, the second or first largest city in Wyoming, depending on how you count.

[ohmman]

Originally Posted by cesmpt

] Has anyone had any success with a Model X? I’m towing my AS from So-Cal to VT in May and I think I need something with good power and efficiency.

I have been towing with a 2016 Model X 90D for the last few years. I have a thread here: https://www.airforums.com/forums/f46...-x-160951.html and another longer, more detailed one at Tesla Motors Club. There are many others towing with Model Xs in that forum, with a variety of travel trailers, so it may be worth a look.

Good luck.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by HRTKD

Infrastructure is key, as you said. I looked at driving from Denver, CO to Casper, WY in my Leaf. I would have to charge up somewhere. Cheyenne would be a good spot. There is only one charging station that ChargePoint.com is showing in Cheyenne and it's at a Harley Davidson dealership of all places. Not even the Nissan dealer in Cheyenne or Casper is showing a charging station and I thought all Nissan dealers had one. Zero stations in Casper, the second or first largest city in Wyoming, depending on how you count.

That's interesting... I was looking at a map of charging stations around here, and both the HD dealers have them. I guess they're putting them in because of the Livewire...

[SSquared]

MapQuest web site listed the Cheyenne Nissan dealer as a charging location. Hallady on Westland Rd.

Originally Posted by HRTKD

Infrastructure is key, as you said. I looked at driving from Denver, CO to Casper, WY in my Leaf. I would have to charge up somewhere. Cheyenne would be a good spot. There is only one charging station that ChargePoint.com is showing in Cheyenne and it's at a Harley Davidson dealership of all places. Not even the Nissan dealer in Cheyenne or Casper is showing a charging station and I thought all Nissan dealers had one. Zero stations in Casper, the second or first largest city in Wyoming, depending on how you count.