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Old 01-31-2020, 08:55 AM   #21
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I think I might wait on the GMC Hummer pickup that’s being promised. With a 1000 horsepower rating, 11,500 lb-ft of torque and 0-60 in 3 seconds (maybe 4 while towing our 30 ft Serenity), it looks like a beast.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:28 AM   #22
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The General Motors corporation has very little credibility with me when it comes to electric vehicles, their development, and their commitment to them.

Folks here may remember a little product General Motors launched with great fanfare back in the 90s called the EV1. At the time of its launch, GM made a series of promises about how committed it was to its development, and indeed at the time they were ahead in battery technology. Toyota actually believed what GM was saying and launched what would become the Prius hybrid. Toyota went with hybrid because Toyota was so far behind in battery technology.

The bottom line at General Motors has always been the bottom line. Tesla, for all its faults, is a company that is committed to changing the world. You need that kind of vision and dedication if you’re going to be a paradigm shifter. General motors, in contrast, is reactionary. The hummer EV is a response to the cybertruck and other electric pick ups coming to market. General motors is notoriously sensitive to the market, and they will drop a vehicle like a hot potato if it’s not selling well enough to appease their shareholders. General motors will eventually join the electric revolution, but they will be drug kicking and screaming by either the market and/or government regulation.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:37 AM   #23
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I'm not sure I agree. The new Tesla Roadster is already claiming a 620 mile range. Of course, that's not towing, but the truck will have more real estate for batteries than the new Roadster. The current lineup of Tesla cars have gone up at least 50 or so miles in the past year in terms of range.

Additionally going cross country in Tesla (can't speak for other brands) is no more dicey than being in an ICE vehicle in the middle of nowhere, low on gas. The only difference is the Tesla has supercharge stations around the country, the car ITSELF, averages consumption, rate of speed and what charge to stop at. Of course if you drive it like you stole it, range decreases, similar to that of an ICE, however, if you drive normally to somewhat conservatively, there is no reason why you could not have 4-5 hours (maybe more-- today) in the car without having to stop more often for 30-45 mins with the size battery in a currently saleable Tesla vehicle. I have no doubt that in the next 3-10 years this will only get better each year that goes by.

Yea, I get that isn't convenient and for arguments sake let's also agree that it could take an extra day to cross country. If that day is really going to impact you, take a train or a plane. The real reason to do it, if you had to is to stick to "big oil". Depending on your charge package, the cost to go across the country could cost you next to zero, if not zero, and even if you didn't have charging included, my guess is that the total cost would be at LEAST half that of what you'd pay for gasoline and less than that of diesel (considering diesel gets better MPG than gassers).

Yes, there are gaps still not filled in the Tesla charge network, but that charge network is far more advanced and far more readily accessible for most long haul trips than any other manufacturer and like Apple, Tesla controls and oversees the car and the charge network, not left to 3rd party chargers with little to no consistency, but here too, if you have longer to wait, those chargers are also available for use.

To me, the real question is not that of charging, it is service. You simply can't take your Tesla, as it is today to just ANY mom and pop shop that you can with a current and seasoned auto manufacturers. There are Chevy, Ford and Dodge dealers nearly everywhere and where there isn't, the independent shops can usually fill that gap. This cannot be said for Tesla or any of the up and coming, so to me that is the real question.
You don't agree that towing a 33' Classic with the new Tesla Truck on long road trips would be considered a hassle by the average person, or that the typical buyer of this truck is probably a urban warrier unlikely to tow anything, or with the reports by the Wall Street Journal reporters, regular folks, and their experience with their electric cars?

I looked up the roadster you mention. It's not available for delivery yet, costs over $200,000, is an unknown, and totally unsuitable for towing. Not a good reference.

I agree Tesla has worked hard to mainstream electric vehicles. But not all electrics are Teslas. I'll definitely look a one when the VW gets old. The battery pack and recharging is the electric vehicle weak link. Maybe someday they'll figure out a safe way to package a small nuke in a car then it'll have a lifetime of unlimited power.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:55 AM   #24
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Yes. A 35-40 minute break every 3+ hours sounds like a very bad idea. Thanks for asking.



If you live in the east, and want to tour in the west, it can be over 1,500 miles just to get to where you want to start. Currently, I can do a 600 mile day. Having to stop for 35-40 minutes every 200 miles, that would not be possible.



It was expressed very well by out of sight:


I live in San Diego, know and travel the west very well and often. Have fun towing 600 miles in a day... 10 hours at a time sounds like a terrible idea to me.
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Old 01-31-2020, 10:05 AM   #25
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You don't agree that towing a 33' Classic with the new Tesla Truck on long road trips would be considered a hassle by the average person, or that the typical buyer of this truck is probably a urban warrier unlikely to tow anything, or with the reports by the Wall Street Journal reporters, regular folks, and their experience with their electric cars?

I looked up the roadster you mention. It's not available for delivery yet, costs over $200,000, is an unknown, and totally unsuitable for towing. Not a good reference.

I agree Tesla has worked hard to mainstream electric vehicles. But not all electrics are Teslas. I'll definitely look a one when the VW gets old. The battery pack and recharging is the electric vehicle weak link. Maybe someday they'll figure out a safe way to package a small nuke in a car then it'll have a lifetime of unlimited power.


The percentage of Airstream owners with a 33’ is really small, and I fully agree that at that end of the spectrum you may be better off with a traditional 350/3500 series truck. For the rest of us with Bambi or 25’ trailers, the Cybertruck will be more than capable to tow and match the ICE offerings. 27’ will be in the middle, and depend on the type of trips the owner takes.
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Old 01-31-2020, 10:23 AM   #26
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Just a reminder of these other threads:

Tesla X TV: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-x-160951.html
Electric TV: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...le-169483.html
Hummer: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...up-204989.html
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Old 01-31-2020, 10:29 AM   #27
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I've got some swamp land in Florida that you can buy now for only a few thousand dollars, and it will be worth millions once I develop it. Also, I wonder if you'd be interested in some cybercoins that are cheap now, but once the Smart Money gets in, will be worth billions and billions (and tax free, because The Man can't track you!). And as long as we're talking about making you wealthy, also membership in a MLM that THEY want you to believe is an illegal pyramid, but is actually the most sophisticated multi-level program ever, and all for just a small payment a month ... BUT WAIT. THERE'S MORE -- -- --
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Old 01-31-2020, 11:52 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
You don't agree that towing a 33' Classic with the new Tesla Truck on long road trips would be considered a hassle by the average person, or that the typical buyer of this truck is probably a urban warrier unlikely to tow anything, or with the reports by the Wall Street Journal reporters, regular folks, and their experience with their electric cars?

I looked up the roadster you mention. It's not available for delivery yet, costs over $200,000, is an unknown, and totally unsuitable for towing. Not a good reference.

I agree Tesla has worked hard to mainstream electric vehicles. But not all electrics are Teslas. I'll definitely look a one when the VW gets old. The battery pack and recharging is the electric vehicle weak link. Maybe someday they'll figure out a safe way to package a small nuke in a car then it'll have a lifetime of unlimited power.
Actually I don't find that a problem for a few reasons. Most people that buy a 33 footer aren't hauling kids around with limited vacation time. If that is the case, clearly electric is not for you as it sits today. If I were retired not in a fast pace or hurry, I'd have no problem with the tech as it sits today.

Also in regard to the roadster, I never said it was to be a tow vehicle. I referenced that the battery tech has evolved greatly since the first Tesla rolled off the assembly line. If that is at 620 miles now, it's within reason an electric truck could also meet those numbers minus "the tow factor" which will decrease that number, but by the time the Tesla truck comes out, that 620 could be pushed even further....moreover the tech itself, including charge times could be significantly better too.

There are a lot of doubters out there. But all I am saying is that range and charging are nowhere in my worry zone as service and support when I take that 33 footer into a remote area with no available mechanic to support it is much higher on my list of concerns with a Tesla electric.....other brand right now don't even have a good charging network, let alone questionable locations for service across the country. To me, being an electric owner, I am far more concerned with that aspect towing across country.

My last trip I took that was about 3000 miles round trip cost me about $1500 or more in gas. If I had the time, I'd be happy to save that $1500 for a few days extra spent charging and sightseeing each long trip....of course I'm not retired...yet, and so fossil fuel is my only real choice for a few more years, which may coincide with the release of the Tesla truck, plus a few years post release.

Another point is, think about when gas vehicles first came out. Folk with horses said the same thing, and look where it went. Same is going to happen with electric, it's hard to see the forest through the trees as it sits right now, but it's going to happen and I have but one reservation which too should be resolved at some point in the near future as well.
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Old 01-31-2020, 04:18 PM   #29
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The electric car has been around since the 1800's and has taken this long to become a functional reality (excluding hybrids). I don't think the doubts are negative regarding an electric truck that can tow a decent payload for a reasonable distance, it's just a matter of if and when. Until it's a proven reliable alternative to an ICE truck, the doubts will continue.
EVs were around in the 20s and went away. They have NOT been around for 100 years. All the development has occurred in 10 years.

So much misinformation on here.
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Old 01-31-2020, 04:36 PM   #30
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EVs were around in the 20s and went away. They have NOT been around for 100 years. All the development has occurred in 10 years.

So much misinformation on here.

Sources point to different creations as the first electric car. Between 1832 and 1839 (the exact year is uncertain) Robert Anderson of Scotland invented a crude electric carriage, powered by non-rechargeable primary cells. In November 1881, French inventor Gustave Trouvé demonstrated a working three-wheeled car powered by electricity at the International Exposition of Electricity, Paris.[18] English inventor Thomas Parker, who was responsible for innovations such as electrifying the London Underground, overhead tramways in Liverpool and Birmingham, and the smokeless fuel coalite, built the first production electric car in London in 1884, using his own specially designed high-capacity rechargeable batteries.[19] But others regard the Flocken Elektrowagen of 1888 by German inventor Andreas Flocken as the first true electric car.[14] Electric cars enjoyed popularity between the late 19th century and early 20th century, when electricity was among the preferred methods for automobile propulsion, providing a level of comfort and ease of operation that could not be achieved by the gasoline cars of the time. Advances in internal combustion technology, especially the electric starter, soon rendered this advantage moot; the greater range of gasoline cars, quicker refueling times, and growing petroleum infrastructure, along with the mass production of gasoline vehicles by companies such as the Ford Motor Company, which reduced prices of gasoline cars to less than half that of equivalent electric cars, led to a decline in the use of electric propulsion, effectively removing it from important markets such as the United States by the 1930s. However, in recent years, increased concerns over the environmental impact of gasoline cars, higher gasoline prices, improvements in battery technology, and the prospect of peak oil, have brought about renewed interest in electric cars, which are perceived to be more environmentally friendly and cheaper to maintain and run, despite high initial costs, after a failed reappearance in the late-1990s.

From wikipedia...
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Old 01-31-2020, 05:48 PM   #31
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First, I have absolutely nothing against EV's. We are on our second (an Audi e-tron) and there are many things we love about it including the fact that we are able to charge it from our own rooftop solar array. With a level 2 charger at home and daily trips that rarely exceed 50 miles so that public charging is almost never an issue, an EV is a great choice for us as a DD.

As a tow vehicle, however, it's hard to imagine an EV being a viable choice any time soon and certainly not a first or second generation Cyber truck. I don't care whether you're pulling a 22 footer or a Classic IMHO there are too many issues around battery charging and performance that would be restrictive and I'm not just talking about having to stop for 30-45 minutes every couple of hundred miles to recharge which in itself seems rather optimistic when towing 3 tons+. Think of the places most people like to go pulling their Airstreams; in the mountains, towing in hot and cold weather, towing far from built up areas. Talk about the possibilities for range anxiety. I start to get a little anxious when my 36 gallon diesel tank gets low and I have to find a station where I can pull my rig through. Looking for a charging station in the middle of the nowhere? I don't think so.

I'm not suggesting that there isn't a demographic to whom the Cyber truck will appeal despite my personal reservations about it's attractiveness or practicality. But this is, after all, an Airstream forum and just about 99% of the people here tow trailers so it shouldn't be too surprising that towing requirements are a primary consideration. Admittedly, there may be some folks who travel a couple hundred miles from RV park to RV park and for them something like a Cyber truck might work. For someone like me, OTOH, who likes to go long distances to remote places I don't see an electric tow vehicle being an option, at least not for the foreseeable future.
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Old 01-31-2020, 07:34 PM   #32
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Yea, I get that isn't convenient and for arguments sake let's also agree that it could take an extra day to cross country. If that day is really going to impact you, take a train or a plane.
This is my problem with the EV cheerleaders. The EV vehicles don't do what I need so the cheerleaders tell me to change my needs to fit their EV dream. Take a train or a plane? Really? I guess my Airstream will teleport itself to my destination for use.

You would find more acceptance from those of us who don't see a use, yet, for EV's if you would say "sorry it doesn't fit your needs, maybe one day" rather than "take a train or a plane."

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I live in San Diego, know and travel the west very well and often. Have fun towing 600 miles in a day... 10 hours at a time sounds like a terrible idea to me.
My mileage definitely varies. When trying to get cross country, I typically do a 10 to 12 hour day.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:08 PM   #33
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Really? Sit 35 to 40 minutes every 200 miles? I don't think so. Currently I can tow my Airstream 400 miles, easy, without stopping (assuming I am wearing an adult diaper).
Like every other tow vehicle discussion, much of this comes down to personal preference and needs. That's why we see Airstreams towed with a wide variety of vehicles.

Some will think that an extra 30 minutes at a stop is worth it to create less pollution and save money, and will find worthwhile things to do with their time, even if it's just going for a walk to counter the effect of hours of sitting. Others may choose to arrive at their destination a little sooner and spend the extra time dealing with that wet diaper.

It's not like we're all going to come to the same conclusion. The one thing we have in common is a decision (or desire) to buy an Airstream, after that there's a whole lot of factors that influence tow vehicle selection, some of which have nothing to do with what we are towing.
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Old 02-01-2020, 06:45 AM   #34
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Sticking it to "Big Oil"

While an earlier post referenced sticking it to "big oil," please don't forget the key ingredient to those batteries is Cobalt. And that Cobalt has to be mined from somewhere. And as demand for battery powered cars increases, so must the cobalt mining increase. Also, the power to recharge your cute little car has to be generated somewhere, likely a gas or coal fired power plant well out of your view. But hey, as long as that Cobalt mine is NIMBY, you Musk fanboys can keep patting yourselves on your arrogant backs that you're doing more for the environment than us troglodytes that are still driving ICEs.

I read recently that the pollution generated just to roll a Tesla 3 off the assembly line is equal to about 13 years of operating a similar sized ICE car. so, yea, cool technology, but not nearly as environmentally friendly as you might think.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:55 AM   #35
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I read recently that the pollution generated just to roll a Tesla 3 off the assembly line is equal to about 13 years of operating a similar sized ICE car. so, yea, cool technology, but not nearly as environmentally friendly as you might think.
There is so much BS out there I can’t stand it. Someone managed to calculate how much pollution it creates to build a car??? I really doubt the accuracy of these “claims” since they all seem to originate in two camps. Yes, building a car creates pollution. So does watching the super bowl, building a TV, or getting an x-ray. Going back to horses? You first.
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Old 02-01-2020, 08:08 AM   #36
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My mileage definitely varies. When trying to get cross country, I typically do a 10 to 12 hour day.
Seeing as people on here are 60-80 years old I hope I don’t run into any of them in hour 10 or 11.
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:11 AM   #37
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Depends on how many miles you drive.
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:21 AM   #38
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Really? Sit 35 to 40 minutes every 200 miles? I don't think so. Currently I can tow my Airstream 400 miles, easy, without stopping (assuming I am wearing an adult diaper).
Yes, that is right, there is a small time sacrifice, I admit it!

Also there are less choices where to fuel up, but the tesla supercharger network is excellent already and growing. Then there will be other solutions.

The technology will solve this soon. The new roadster will get 600 miles to the charge. Over time the truck will do better, but this is not the solution to energy and transportation, however it is a transition that makes sense today.

Only about 10 minutes delta compared to a normal stop when eating.

For that you drive the safest vehicle, save money, and drive in luxury, plus you help slow down global warming and save fossil fuels for other uses. (25% of air pollution is from ICE engines). The model 3 is the best drive - matches up with cars twice it's price, and will only cost about 8 cents per mile total life cycle cost (in NY with high electric prices). Bet the truck will be the same value.

For me, when we drive 400 miles, I stop for gas once - 36 gallon tank and 11 mpg. How do you go so far on one tank of gas?
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Old 02-01-2020, 11:06 AM   #39
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See, what I can't figure out is why we can't just have a nice thread about electric vehicles without folks jumping in to see who can make the most snide, unhelpful, judgemental, and borderline-rude remarks.

If you don't have an EV, aren't interested in an EV, and/or don't ever want to drive an EV, much less tow an Airstream with one, why not use the "ignore" feature of the forums to block yourself seeing such threads when they appear so you can just move on to other subjects?

If you're passionate about discussing towing and camping with EV's maybe you should consider using the forum's feature that lets you block/ignore users who can't seem to resist posting negative pointless remarks in every EV thread they see. Then you don't have to waste any energy reading or responding to those remarks and can help keep the thread on-topic instead of participating in the process of shoving it into the weeds by pointlessly arguing with those members.

Towing with an EV is a legitimate topic for Air Forums, even if its not entirely practical for everyone at this very moment, and there's no reason to keep trying to shut them down with grumpy and unhelpful remarks. New EV threads will keep right on popping up anyway. Some percentage of Air Forums members clearly want to chat about this, so if EVs aren't your cup of tea, why not just move on to other topics and let them have a civil discussion about a topic they're passionate about, and which is at least as relevant to Airstreams and Camping as any other tow vehicle thread?
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Old 02-01-2020, 11:28 AM   #40
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While an earlier post referenced sticking it to "big oil," please don't forget the key ingredient to those batteries is Cobalt. And that Cobalt has to be mined from somewhere. And as demand for battery powered cars increases, so must the cobalt mining increase. Also, the power to recharge your cute little car has to be generated somewhere, likely a gas or coal fired power plant well out of your view. But hey, as long as that Cobalt mine is NIMBY, you Musk fanboys can keep patting yourselves on your arrogant backs that you're doing more for the environment than us troglodytes that are still driving ICEs.

I read recently that the pollution generated just to roll a Tesla 3 off the assembly line is equal to about 13 years of operating a similar sized ICE car. so, yea, cool technology, but not nearly as environmentally friendly as you might think.
i'm not sure why you feel the need to add insults to your points.

As per my previous post, each of us will make this decision based on our own needs. Don't assume that just because it doesn't work for you, living in a place that still used fossil fuels to generate electricity, that it won't benefit those of us who live in areas that don't use coal for electricity generation.

An ICE will continue to produce the same or more CO2 in it's life. An electric car has the possibility of producing less and less as electricity generation moves away from fossil fuels. Mining is a problem in many parts of the world, but not one that is insurmountable. Oil exploration has also caused a lot of problems, including air pollution, wars in the Middle East, earthquakes from fracking, spills, and a legacy of abandoned wells needing to be decommissioned.
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