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Old 12-16-2019, 06:46 AM   #441
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If Airstream even some of the tech from this trailer it would be great with a Cybertruck. https://newatlas.com/outdoors/retrea...jfq2tlKXx6z5p0 The video pretty much sums it up.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:48 AM   #442
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No stretches of I35 in Texas have 80 mph speed limits. There are several stretches of 75mph. I10 and I20 have some 80mph stretches in the far west.
Think that is correct, now that I think about it. I found this posted from March of this year: "This week, the Texas Department of Transportation approved an 85 mph speed limit for a 40-mile stretch of the SH 130 toll road from Austin to Seguin, which is just north of San Antonio."

I take the toll road 130 sometimes from Austin and stretches have 80 and 85 mph posted....I35 is 75 in many places...my point is traffic is usually going above the limit anyway, so keeping up in an EV would likely require more battery drain, right?
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:26 AM   #443
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Not sure why this has to be said, but: You are not required to tow at a high speed limit. It can be done, I suppose, but you can also go slower as long as you're not below the minimum speed. In high-speed-limit areas we prefer to tow at 65 or less, sometimes up to 70 to pass, but never more, not even in Wyoming or Montana. Don't see why we'd need to change that up for Texas. There are just too many pounds, hopes, and dreams following along behind us to be comfortable towing them at higher speeds.

Of course, in California the towing speed limit is 55, but another way of looking is this: in California, your BEV truck would get better mileage per KWh, so in a way they are just helping you out.
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:29 AM   #444
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If Airstream even some of the tech from this trailer it would be great with a Cybertruck. https://newatlas.com/outdoors/retrea...jfq2tlKXx6z5p0 The video pretty much sums it up.
What a great idea, would love to see someone here in the US do the same. Even Airstream.
To nitpick a little: I'm not a huge fan of flexible solar panels, which appear to be in use on this particular trailer, because they aren't especially efficient, but the overall concept is still solid and I'd love to see it happen here.
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:34 AM   #445
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That would be quite a trick to somehow fit 2,000 watts of solar panels on top an airstream.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:04 AM   #446
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Will the Cybertruck comply with SAE J 2807 towing standards? I would think that being as heavy and powerful as it is there would not be a problem with most of the J 2807 tests, but I wonder how the motors and gearboxes will hold up in the 11 mile uphill test run. Will they overheat when pulling a 14,000 trailer?
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Old 12-16-2019, 03:46 PM   #447
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Will the Cybertruck comply with SAE J 2807 towing standards? I would think that being as heavy and powerful as it is there would not be a problem with most of the J 2807 tests, but I wonder how the motors and gearboxes will hold up in the 11 mile uphill test run. Will they overheat when pulling a 14,000 trailer?
Seems a silly question, since this is a concept vehicle and not a production vehicle. How would one determine the required options to be included in a hypothetical test vehicle, since their selection for the SAE test is based on % of production so equipped?

Not sure if the latest version of the SAE standard has changed, but my copy talks about final drive ratios, cooling system performance, and test procedures for manual transmission vs automatic transmission vehicles. It clearly doesn’t contemplate EVs
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Old 12-16-2019, 04:43 PM   #448
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I guess the question is, how much will it tow meeting the same standards as a ICE TV's do for the towing test? In terms of minimum speed and not overheating and with the AC running, etc. The minimal braking tests and strength of hitch, etc. Not sure that is a silly question at all. Even if it is a silly question I am sorta interested in the answer when one is forthcoming. And guesses before that.
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Old 12-16-2019, 05:19 PM   #449
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.....
Not sure if the latest version of the SAE standard has changed, but my copy talks about final drive ratios, cooling system performance, and test procedures for manual transmission vs automatic transmission vehicles. It clearly doesn’t contemplate EVs
The SAE has a "Radiator Caps and Filler Necks" Task Force, but I don't see one for Electric Vehicles.
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Old 12-16-2019, 05:34 PM   #450
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Will the Cybertruck comply with SAE J 2807 towing standards? I would think that being as heavy and powerful as it is there would not be a problem with most of the J 2807 tests, but I wonder how the motors and gearboxes will hold up in the 11 mile uphill test run. Will they overheat when pulling a 14,000 trailer?
The motors are liquid cooled. They will do fine.
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Old 12-16-2019, 05:41 PM   #451
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While the cybertruck appears to be generating a lot of NEW interest in EV pickups (kudos, Elon) the truck itself is still at least 2 full years away from production, and given Tesla's track record, I would say more likely three years from delivery, if we're lucky.

So, all the curiously about how much it can actually tow for exactly how far, under what real-world conditions, at what grade, etc., are simply speculation at this point. Popular Mechanics has a rundown of specs as given from Tesla:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...ertruck-facts/

But, remember, this may change once the actual finished vehicle hits the road. In fact, I would be shocked if there weren't a number of tweaks, both subtle and major in the next two years. Only when the actual finished truck hits the road will we be able to actually test it under real world conditions, and as always, in any event, YMMV.

Regarding the design and reasons for it, a pretty good review that draws attention to seven remarkable overlooked features of the truck is here:

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Old 12-16-2019, 05:46 PM   #452
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Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles

The development and "current state" of Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (Hydrogen FCEV) is something I track closely and am involved in indirectly.

Hydrogen FCEV are here now in commercial and consumer use in the U.S. and worldwide. Their development and adoption is growing rapidly.

I understand there are "doubters", as we've been hearing for years and years about the great potential of FCEVs. But, we've broken through the stalemate, and the utilization of Hydrogen FCEVs is now happening not only in passenger cars, but trucks, buses, trains, boats, and material handling equipment.

To give you an idea of how quickly it is happening, when I first starting tracking this trend seriously less than two years ago there were about 20,000 Hydrogen FCEV forklifts in use in the U.S. (I was surprised even then there were that many). Today, there are 25,000 such forklifts in use. And, the industry predicts that by the end of 2022 there will be 50,000 Hydrogen FCEV forklifts and other material handling equipment (at airports, ports, etc.)---and that is just in the U.S.

With that rapid adoption rate in that sector (material handling equipment), we'll see impressive adoption rates in other sectors, including passenger vehicles, long-distance truck hauling, etc.

Hydrogen FCEVs will likely evolve as the better alternative to battery powered EV for transportation for all applications, except perhaps for short trips in urban areas where battery powered EVs may have advantages.

For those who remain skeptics, I was recently in China and, like they did with the EV sector, it is stunning to see how quickly they are developing and advancing the use of Hydrogen FCEVs in multiple applications, including transportation.

Cheers,
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Old 12-16-2019, 06:54 PM   #453
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I guess the question is, how much will it tow meeting the same standards as a ICE TV's do for the towing test? In terms of minimum speed and not overheating and with the AC running, etc. The minimal braking tests and strength of hitch, etc. Not sure that is a silly question at all. Even if it is a silly question I am sorta interested in the answer when one is forthcoming. And guesses before that.
When a production vehicle is announced, it will be a good question, IMO
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Old 12-16-2019, 07:12 PM   #454
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The SAE has a "Radiator Caps and Filler Necks" Task Force, but I don't see one for Electric Vehicles.
SAE is a membership based organization. SAE has all sorts of Standards Committees and Technical Committees and they tend to be populated by long term SAE members. And those engineers tend to work in Detroit and similar environs. It results in a conservative/traditional organization in my experience. That isn’t altogether bad, but until Tesla engineers show up in numbers in SAE registers, traditional auto engineers will set the agenda. Meaning that we may be waiting to see SAE Standards specific to EVs such as the Cybertruck. Consider how SAE Standards will or will not impact currently available Tesla features such as Smart Summons. And how SAE members such as Ford EV engineers (just as an example) may not share similar viewpoints as Tesla engineers.
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Old 12-16-2019, 07:13 PM   #455
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The development and "current state" of Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (Hydrogen FCEV) is something I track closely and am involved in indirectly.

Hydrogen FCEV are here now in commercial and consumer use in the U.S. and worldwide. Their development and adoption is growing rapidly.

I understand there are "doubters", as we've been hearing for years and years about the great potential of FCEVs. But, we've broken through the stalemate, and the utilization of Hydrogen FCEVs is now happening not only in passenger cars, but trucks, buses, trains, boats, and material handling equipment.

To give you an idea of how quickly it is happening, when I first starting tracking this trend seriously less than two years ago there were about 20,000 Hydrogen FCEV forklifts in use in the U.S. (I was surprised even then there were that many). Today, there are 25,000 such forklifts in use. And, the industry predicts that by the end of 2022 there will be 50,000 Hydrogen FCEV forklifts and other material handling equipment (at airports, ports, etc.)---and that is just in the U.S.

With that rapid adoption rate in that sector (material handling equipment), we'll see impressive adoption rates in other sectors, including passenger vehicles, long-distance truck hauling, etc.

Hydrogen FCEVs will likely evolve as the better alternative to battery powered EV for transportation for all applications, except perhaps for short trips in urban areas where battery powered EVs may have advantages.

For those who remain skeptics, I was recently in China and, like they did with the EV sector, it is stunning to see how quickly they are developing and advancing the use of Hydrogen FCEVs in multiple applications, including transportation.

Cheers,
Bryan
No doubt hydrogen will have its place. In many of the large format industrial and commercial applications you listed. It just won't be in personal passenger cars where fueling will still be a hurdle dependent on infrastructure. Not just a hurdle, but outright inconvenience for those that have experienced a BEV, that never want to visit a public fueling station again for 99% of its use.

Likewise, please find a different thread for hydrogen fuel cell discussion. This one is focused on the Cybertruck and comparable EVs.
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Old 12-16-2019, 07:26 PM   #456
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Ok. Hydrogen FCEVs truck will be competition to the Tesla, so I assumed relevancy here. I thought it was relevant in this thread, but I'll not post any more about Hydrogen FCEVs in this thread.

Except to say that the infrastructure for retail Hydrogen refueling of passenger vehicles is happening now in the U.S. and Canada and will continue to grow. As Hydrogen FCEVs continue to evolve, retail refueling infrastructure will not be a limiting factor. These retail Hydrogen refueling stations for passenger cars can refuel a FCEV in the same amount of time as it takes to refuel with gas or diesel.

Cheers,

Bryan
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Old 12-16-2019, 07:58 PM   #457
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Will the Cybertruck comply with SAE J 2807 towing standards? I would think that being as heavy and powerful as it is there would not be a problem with most of the J 2807 tests, but I wonder how the motors and gearboxes will hold up in the 11 mile uphill test run. Will they overheat when pulling a 14,000 trailer?
There's no inherent limitation of a BEV that would suggest it will overheat. It's a design and engineering problem. Something ICE cars are subject to also. Perhaps even more so as there's so much cooling considerations with so many parts. From cooling the engine with coolant, oil, and fuel; to turbochargers, transmissions, differentials; and managing combustion temperatures and pressures to keep away from the knock threshold and overly high exhaust gas temperatures that can actually melt things in the exhaust flow.

In a Tesla, it's cooling of the drive unit and batteries.

Early variants of the Model S's had some shortcomings in cooling capacity of the battery pack and motor induction rotors, where extreme use like lapping a track would get the system to over saturate with heat. Understand that these uses are atypical, with extreme power output upwards of 500-700hp. ICE cars making that much continuous HP need serious cooling too. Just ask the owners of Corvette C7 Stingrays.

Current Model S, Model 3, and Model X, especially in those with performance variants have great cooling.

Model X, towing its full rated load, up the Ike Gauntlet setting a blistering pace had no cooling issues to speak of:
https://insideevs.com/news/366120/vi...g-steep-grade/

Model 3s have been really put through the paces by those enjoying track days and autobahn runs, with no cooling issues to report:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...ed-test-video/

Model S is running new high performance "raven" drivetrains with much higher heat capacities as recent patents in cooling technology is any indication. They are also testing early engineering prototypes of the "plaid" drivetrain on the Nurburgring and destroying speed records in the process. Both raven and plaid drivetrains, 2 and 3 motor respectively, will likely see application in some form for the mid and high end Cybertruck.
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...he-nurburgring

The single motor base spec of the Cybertruck is likely to use a variant of the base motor used in the Model 3 today.

Will it tow? They all surely will if use of a base Model 3 motor in the Tesla Semi is any indication. 4x of them for a combined HP rating somewhere around ~1000hp with over that in torque to tow up to 80,000lbs.

There's no need for any FUD. Tesla's confluence of engineering investment is coming into its own.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:02 PM   #458
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The real revolution on the horizon will not be electric or hydrogen, it will be self drive vehicles. Coming to your neighborhood soon.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:53 PM   #459
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...my point is traffic is usually going above the limit anyway, so keeping up in an EV would likely require more battery drain, right?
Just like driving in an ICE requires more energy. Drag increases at the square of speed, and motors/engines will have to make up the energy somewhere. An EV is actually much more efficient than a gas vehicle, so technically it loses LESS stored energy than the ICE. Capacity makes the difference here.

As you know, I've towed thousands of miles with our Model X. I've driven well over a hundred thousand miles in EVs. Most of the things you're saying are just a complete misunderstanding of EVs.

You mentioned your son-in-law having a hard time plugging in at Whole Foods. Why is he bothering? I never plug in to convenience charge. I realized in the first week of ownership that it's foolish to do so in a car that has plenty of range. On a daily basis, I charge at one place - home. I don't have to do it every night, but I generally plug in one or the other car. I have never had to charge out and about except when I'm on a road trip. And there's absolutely no way I'd plug in to one of those Level 2 chargers - those take a few hours. I plug into a Supercharger and take a 15-30 minute stop. Want to drive 85? Go for it. I lived in Austin for 20 years, and have plenty of friends with Teslas. One of them does the Austin-Houston trip regularly, and the Austin-Dallas trip occasionally. He has never once complained that it's much different from his previous car.

Perhaps your son-in-law bought one of the smaller battery models, which makes him worry about range? Because even my 4 year old X 90D can make Austin-Dallas at the speed limit without stopping to charge. And it can easily make it at 90+mph with a 10 minute stop at the Collins St. Bakery.
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:01 PM   #460
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Don't trust Tesla.

Hi, I remember Tesla anouncing the Model 3 car; It was supposed to be affordable starting at $30,000.00. Later it was said that the basic model 3 car would cost $35,000.00 each. For this thousands of deposits were put on the idea that people could finally buy an affordable electric Tesla car. [beating the record sales of the 1965 Ford Mustang] According to Motor Trend, after more than two years of production, Tesla has finally started to produce the basic model 3 car. But now it costs over $41,000.00 for one. Fraud or a lie to the public to get deposits on a $30,000.00 or $35,000.00 model 3 car that these people will never get. Instead people could buy a model 3 car for up to around $60,000.00.

If that isn't bad enough, early models of this car had horrible fitting body parts with some of them having double weather strips on the doors to fill excessive gaps of poor fitting body parts.

Will this magic truck be any different or will you be putting deposits on more lies from Tesla??????
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