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Old 08-08-2021, 11:15 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by AlbertF View Post
While the Cyber Truck will have better aerodynamics than most, I’d expect to see about a 40% range reduction when towing an Airstream at about 60-65 mph. If real world range is 400 miles, towing range might be about 240.

For many people that could work very well, especially if there’s a place to charge at the destination. I see a lot of RVs that never travel that far from home.

For long distance travel that is planned around Supercharger locations, that would mean one stop in the middle of a driving day. I know from experience that 500 miles a day is lots when towing.
240 miles of towing range is definitely overly optimistic. There have been real world tests with Rivian trucks. Usually the reduction when towing 6000 - 10000 lbs trailer is about 60%. So if the Cyber Truck has a range of 500 miles then the actual towing range would be more like 200 miles max. But 500 mile range is a high estimate. The actual range of the Cyber truck might be more like 350 - 400 miles making the towing range more like 140 - 160 miles.

Until this thing is actually built, no one really knows. All I know is that we probably won't see this thing being on the road until at least 2023 maybe 2024. Hopefully by then there will be a higher density of charging stations because in my area you need to drive at least 250 miles to the nearest town big enough to have a level 3 charging station. I probably couldn't make it to the charging station leaving my house on a full charge. I probably couldn't make it to my favorite camping sites as they are all up 5 and 7 percent grades above 12000 feet and routinely are below 40 degrees. Pulling a trailer uphill on a steep grade at lower temps would probably yield a 75 mile range or less.

I love EV vehicles, just not Teslas. Tesla is rated as the worst car company in America. Production and finishing problems galore. They have the worst track record in the industry right now according to recent testing. If I could go electric I would. Probably with Ford. But right now, I see this as only a city option. If you live in a rural area then you can forget about EV for at least another 5 - 10 years minimum.
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Old 08-08-2021, 12:20 PM   #62
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Tesla Cybertruck will tow 14,000 lbs -- did you order one yet?

If I was building a new RV Park right now with all the trenches dug, every site would have 50/30/15 amp pedestals streetside and a Level 2 EV Charger in the best place on the site for tow vehicle access (in front for pull-through sites, left or right for adjacent parking).

The EV’s are coming. As with all developing technologies, the rate of improvement is likely to accelerate as a function of time.

At my age, I’m pretty sure I’ve bought my last ICE vehicle. If I live long enough to need a replacement…
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Old 08-08-2021, 01:48 PM   #63
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Was reading on Tesla website about their proposed 2022 tri-motor EV truck which with the tri-motor AWD model you might tow up to 14,000 lbs and travel over 500 miles per charge.

Nothing else on the market claims to provide that kind of performance.

Ambitious? Of course, but everyday there are new developments.

Would the proposed 2022+ Tesla Cybertruck be the ideal tow vehicle for the largest Airstream 30+ footer model?

https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck/design#battery
I ordered the Cybertruck when it was first revealed and getting more anxious to take delivery as the launch nears. We purchased a Model S for my wife in 2016 and couldn't be more pleased. Last year Tesla dropped the price of Full Self Driving to $5,000.00 and I purchased it for my wife. The scheduled and came to our home to replace the computer and now we have a few additional features. I purchased the self driving feature for the Cybertruck but that cost $10,000. By no means is it full self driving yet, but with each software release they make improvements. As for how to charge with our Airstream in tow, I trust that the man who built the first rocket to land vertically on a hard surface will be able to figure out that trucks are meant to tow and no one will want to detach in order to charge their truck. Obviously I'm a major fan, but with that said we will keep our 3/4 ton Duramax because towing in the continental US should be easy but we will still need a tow vehicle for Alaska and Canada.
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Old 08-08-2021, 02:30 PM   #64
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As for how to charge with our Airstream in tow, I trust that the man who built the first rocket to land vertically on a hard surface will be able to figure out that trucks are meant to tow and no one will want to detach in order to charge their truck.
I foresee in the future we could convert "express lanes" to charging lanes and while rolling (perhaps more slowly) the EV would be doing quick wireless charging underneath with charging devices imbedded in pavement. You pay for it the same way you pay for express lanes.

Another thing I wish for is that all vehicles have barcode or other detection on the undercarriage and imbedded pavement readers that detect speeding or reckless driving, thus mostly eliminating the need for most police to patrol the highways. Offenders would be sent a bill with a link to the video, etc.

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Old 08-08-2021, 03:16 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by RVDreamer View Post
Sorry, I got it confused with the Rivian. It's the Rivian that is massive and too tall for a normal garage.
Rivian is normal-sized:
https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...0mirrors%20out.
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Old 08-08-2021, 05:21 PM   #66
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240 miles of towing range is definitely overly optimistic. There have been real world tests with Rivian trucks. Usually the reduction when towing 6000 - 10000 lbs trailer is about 60%. So if the Cyber Truck has a range of 500 miles then the actual towing range would be more like 200 miles max. But 500 mile range is a high estimate. The actual range of the Cyber truck might be more like 350 - 400 miles making the towing range more like 140 - 160 miles.

Until this thing is actually built, no one really knows. All I know is that we probably won't see this thing being on the road until at least 2023 maybe 2024. Hopefully by then there will be a higher density of charging stations because in my area you need to drive at least 250 miles to the nearest town big enough to have a level 3 charging station. I probably couldn't make it to the charging station leaving my house on a full charge. I probably couldn't make it to my favorite camping sites as they are all up 5 and 7 percent grades above 12000 feet and routinely are below 40 degrees. Pulling a trailer uphill on a steep grade at lower temps would probably yield a 75 mile range or less.

I love EV vehicles, just not Teslas. Tesla is rated as the worst car company in America. Production and finishing problems galore. They have the worst track record in the industry right now according to recent testing. If I could go electric I would. Probably with Ford. But right now, I see this as only a city option. If you live in a rural area then you can forget about EV for at least another 5 - 10 years minimum.
Your bias is clouding your judgement. Worst car company? Not by a long shot if their success is anything to go by. That success would not be here if Tesla didn't deliver. Their customer base is educated, scrutinizing every detail. They're affluent and have many choices. Tesla owners are fanatics because the future is being delivered today in tangible products. Products that are at least a generation or two ahead of every competing product out there.

Most every competing EV coming out today can barely measure up to the original Tesla Model S delivered in 2012. Today's Model S has more range than many gas cars, more performance than any car including a 2 million dollar Bugatti Veyron, more efficiency than any diesel, a larger charging network than any other brand, safer than any Volvo, the list goes on.

That you want to measure Tesla's by Ford that has a single EV out there, and Rivian that has yet to deliver anything, is laughable. As a Tesla owner, I find no problem with range. I can exceed EPA range when I want to as it's all predicated on a specific drive cycle. You know what also doesn't measure up depending on drive cycle - gas cars. Range is elastic depending on how it's used.
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Old 08-08-2021, 07:33 PM   #67
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And any breaks for charging are much appreciated, doubling as bio and self recharge sessions. Supercharging works with aplomb these days, combined with nice bathroom and beverage services.
You don't have to wait on an EV for that. Drive 1 to 2 hours, then pull over and sit for an hour, then resume your trip. Easily doable with an ICE vehicle.
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Old 08-08-2021, 07:50 PM   #68
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You don't have to wait on an EV for that. Drive 1 to 2 hours, then pull over and sit for an hour, then resume your trip. Easily doable with an ICE vehicle.
Right.

What's different is that Tesla charge stops double as clean and indulgent rest areas. The business model is refreshing.

I drive the same trips with my ICE vehicle, and I find myself wishing to stop at Tesla rest stops.

Instead, I try and hope to find my wife the least icky, unsightly, and dirty stop. Hope for no line. Maybe a sliver of paper products.
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Old 08-08-2021, 07:54 PM   #69
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Tesla Cybertruck will tow 14,000 lbs -- did you order one yet?

Last I checked, one of the reasons I tow an Airstream is that it puts the entrance to a very clean, private bathroom about 20 feet behind our ICE tow vehicle…any time we need it.

We also travel with dogs. They need rest stops about every 6-8 hours maximum. At our age, regular rest stops are a darn fine idea!
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Old 08-08-2021, 08:25 PM   #70
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Your bias is clouding your judgement. Worst car company? Not by a long shot if their success is anything to go by. That success would not be here if Tesla didn't deliver. Their customer base is educated, scrutinizing every detail. They're affluent and have many choices. Tesla owners are fanatics because the future is being delivered today in tangible products. Products that are at least a generation or two ahead of every competing product out there.



Most every competing EV coming out today can barely measure up to the original Tesla Model S delivered in 2012. Today's Model S has more range than many gas cars, more performance than any car including a 2 million dollar Bugatti Veyron, more efficiency than any diesel, a larger charging network than any other brand, safer than any Volvo, the list goes on.



That you want to measure Tesla's by Ford that has a single EV out there, and Rivian that has yet to deliver anything, is laughable. As a Tesla owner, I find no problem with range. I can exceed EPA range when I want to as it's all predicated on a specific drive cycle. You know what also doesn't measure up depending on drive cycle - gas cars. Range is elastic depending on how it's used.


So is yours..bias that is. Tesla was clearly ahead of the market and has more offerings today than the general auto manufacturers. Let’s see where things are in another 2-4 years as far as choice goes. At the high end Porsche already is delivering a car with much better fit and finish and equal or better consistent performance. Again a niche solution.

We’ve been full timing since January and have been at zero campgrounds that will let you plug in an EV including a couple of higher end RV resorts. While we could get a 50amp circuit none had 100amp poles which you’d need if you want to run your trailer and charge. As far as NP campgrounds we have not seen any power. So imagine driving to Bryce, Yellowstone etc. even if you get there how you getting out?

Yes they have their use cases but I don’t see it for RV travel for a while.
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Old 08-08-2021, 08:33 PM   #71
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So is yours..bias that is. Tesla was clearly ahead of the market and has more offerings today than the general auto manufacturers. Let’s see where things are in another 2-4 years as far as choice goes. At the high end Porsche already is delivering a car with much better fit and finish and equal or better consistent performance. Again a niche solution.

We’ve been full timing since January and have been at zero campgrounds that will let you plug in an EV including a couple of higher end RV resorts. While we could get a 50amp circuit none had 100amp poles which you’d need if you want to run your trailer and charge. As far as NP campgrounds we have not seen any power. So imagine driving to Bryce, Yellowstone etc. even if you get there how you getting out?

Yes they have their use cases but I don’t see it for RV travel for a while.
Sure, you can call it bias, if that's what first hand experience is? Vice speculation that couldn't be further off the mark.

It's a brave new world out there. Chang for the better is always welcome. Future generations are counting on it.
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:03 PM   #72
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So is yours..bias that is. Tesla was clearly ahead of the market and has more offerings today than the general auto manufacturers. Let’s see where things are in another 2-4 years as far as choice goes. At the high end Porsche already is delivering a car with much better fit and finish and equal or better consistent performance. Again a niche solution.

'2018 the competition is coming for Tesla!
'2019 the competition is coming for Tesla!
'2020 the competition is coming for Tesla!
'2021 the competition is coming for Tesla!


The problem with that is the competition is even slower at meeting their production dates than Tesla. And Tesla has not been standing still adding more products, range, performance, and features such that the competition is getting further behind. And finally, the competition cannot produce EV's at scale. Tesla will exceed 2 million cars & trucks in '2022.
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:25 PM   #73
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I charge my Tesla in the RV park I am currently staying at. The RV park has 30 and 50 amp plugs. Airstream is plugged in 30amp and Tesla is plugged in 50amp and charging overnight. I find more ways to plug in my Tesla everywhere. I can't wait to get my cybertruck so I can get a bigger Airstream like Classic 30ft.
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Old 08-08-2021, 11:06 PM   #74
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Your bias is clouding your judgement. Worst car company? Not by a long shot if their success is anything to go by. That success would not be here if Tesla didn't deliver. Their customer base is educated, scrutinizing every detail. They're affluent and have many choices. Tesla owners are fanatics because the future is being delivered today in tangible products. Products that are at least a generation or two ahead of every competing product out there.

Most every competing EV coming out today can barely measure up to the original Tesla Model S delivered in 2012. Today's Model S has more range than many gas cars, more performance than any car including a 2 million dollar Bugatti Veyron, more efficiency than any diesel, a larger charging network than any other brand, safer than any Volvo, the list goes on.

That you want to measure Tesla's by Ford that has a single EV out there, and Rivian that has yet to deliver anything, is laughable. As a Tesla owner, I find no problem with range. I can exceed EPA range when I want to as it's all predicated on a specific drive cycle. You know what also doesn't measure up depending on drive cycle - gas cars. Range is elastic depending on how it's used.
Google "Tesla quality control issues". Tesla was ranked by Consumer Reports and JD Powers as the worst car company in America. They had the highest number of issues per 100 vehicles in 2020. Even Elon Musk admitted that they were having far too many issues and they they had a long ways to go to correct the issues.

It isn't bias, it is fact, just look it up. When I said, I would probably buy a Ford EV, I was talking about in the distant future and only because I trust them to build a better truck. It might not be the best EV but Tesla doesn't yet know how to construct a simple auto without issues that other auto manufacturers have mastered years ago. I am not going to trust them to build a truck which they have no previous track record doing. Especially not the first one off the assembly line.
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Old 08-08-2021, 11:34 PM   #75
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Google "Tesla quality control issues". Tesla was ranked by Consumer Reports and JD Powers as the worst car company in America. They had the highest number of issues per 100 vehicles in 2020. Even Elon Musk admitted that they were having far too many issues and they they had a long ways to go to correct the issues.

It isn't bias, it is fact, just look it up. When I said, I would probably buy a Ford EV, I was talking about in the distant future and only because I trust them to build a better truck. It might not be the best EV but Tesla doesn't yet know how to construct a simple auto without issues that other auto manufacturers have mastered years ago. I am not going to trust them to build a truck which they have no previous track record doing. Especially not the first one off the assembly line.
I don't deny that Tesla has had its growing pains as it scales. That's something that they continue to work on. Does that make it the worst car company? Not by a long shot. And if you're going to put a benchmark for reliability, nothing against them, but I sure wouldn't use Ford. It's not their forte either? Ranking 22 out of 26, with a particularly dismal 2020 - https://fordauthority.com/2020/11/fo...bility-survey/ Overall, Tesla seems to rate better than some would acknowledge?

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I have enjoyed some of the most classically reliable brands including Lexus and Porches. That's the bar by which I measure other cars, and I wouldn't hesitate to own a Tesla. Because they deliver as evident by the CR rated owner satisfaction. Don't worry, the European brands dismissed Tesla as well, and now it's having their lunch.

What I do agree with you on is I wouldn't take the first one off the assembly line. I never buy the first model year of any vehicle, regardless of brand.
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Old 08-09-2021, 12:09 AM   #76
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I don't deny that Tesla has had its growing pains as it scales. That's something that they continue to work on. Does that make it the worst car company? Not by a long shot. And if you're going to put a benchmark for reliability, nothing against them, but I sure wouldn't use Ford. It's not their forte either? Ranking 22 out of 26, with a particularly dismal 2020 - https://fordauthority.com/2020/11/fo...bility-survey/ Overall, Tesla seems to rate better than some would acknowledge?

I have enjoyed some of the most classically reliable brands including Lexus and Porches. That's the bar by which I measure other cars, and I wouldn't hesitate to own a Tesla. Because they deliver as evident by the CR rated owner satisfaction. Don't worry, the European brands dismissed Tesla as well, and now it's having their lunch.

What I do agree with you on is I wouldn't take the first one off the assembly line. I never buy the first model year of any vehicle, regardless of brand.
I have never owned a Tesla so I don't have first hand knowledge. I have just been going by what I have read and the press hasn't been kind to Tesla.

I love the idea of a electric vehicle, I just think the tech hasn't matured enough to be useful to me out in the country. The principle reason I don't have a Tesla is that it just isn't practical in my area.

I do have plenty of first hand experience with Ford F-150 and F-250s and frankly I can't complain. They have all been reliable. I have had no issues from the many trucks I have owned over 45 years. That is why I would be more apt to buy an electric truck from Ford rather than Tesla as Ford has experience with trucks and they have all performed well for me.

I have also owned 911 turbos, BMWs, and Mercedes. Sure the Porsche is a fantastic vehicle, second to none in my book but at $200,000 it should be.

I have to say that my $70,000 F-150 PowerBoost F-150 hybrid has been a joy. It runs great, excellent power, torque, great transmission, quiet and the electric motor is seamlessly integrated with the V-6 Ecoboost. My Platinum also has an extremely nice interior with the latest electronics and competes well with the electronics in my 2020 Porsche. My Porsche is twice as fast 0-60 but the PowerBoost still will do 0-60 in about 5.5 seconds. Pretty impressive for a truck. On top of that it will tow 12,200 lbs and that is something that Porsche will never do.
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Old 08-09-2021, 06:11 AM   #77
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We’ve been full timing since January and have been at zero campgrounds that will let you plug in an EV including a couple of higher end RV resorts. While we could get a 50amp circuit none had 100amp poles which you’d need if you want to run your trailer and charge. As far as NP campgrounds we have not seen any power. So imagine driving to Bryce, Yellowstone etc. even if you get there how you getting out?

Yes they have their use cases but I don’t see it for RV travel for a while.
So let's see, in the typical pedestal box, you have a 50 amp plug, a 30 amp plug, and a 20 amp plug. What does that add up to? Oh, that's right, 100 amps.
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Old 08-09-2021, 06:21 AM   #78
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The most important part of EV ownership is the lack of complexity of the drive chain. We've owned our Tesla for almost 4 years and have not had any major problem with the drive chain or for any part of the car for that matter!

Electric motors are simple compared to the complexity of diesel engines. Plus tesla's require virtually no maintenance or cost associated with oil changes, radiators, brake linings, and the list goes on and on.

I hope I'm around to see the change about to happen to our industry with the increase of EV use. The trucks are coming. My money is on Tesla, well, my $100 deposit!
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Old 08-09-2021, 06:31 AM   #79
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I don’t own a Tesla, but I’ve driven several models and considered buying one last year. We shopped for a vehicle to replace my wife’s Audi SQ5 early last year, and the Model Y along with the Audi eTron were two of the contenders. Ultimately we purchased a Jaguar I-Pace, and we love it. The fit and finish are excellent, and we love the styling. Like Tesla, it was designed and built as a BEV, and not a retrofit of a design intended for an ICE. The overall experience of driving and ownership is similar to Tesla.

Personally, I prefer the driving experience and the styling over the Tesla product. That said, I give full credit to Tesla for creating the market. I think that Tesla still has an advantage over other BEVs in charging infrastructure, and their self-driving capabilities exceed those of other manufacturers. Those things weren’t important to us though. It’s a brave new world out there, and this is only the beginning.
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Old 08-09-2021, 06:43 AM   #80
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Electric motors are simple compared to the complexity of diesel engines. Plus tesla's require virtually no maintenance or cost associated with oil changes, radiators, brake linings, and the list goes on and on.
Whoa... I was agreeing with you on oil changes and radiators.... but an EV still has to have brakes. Brakes, tires, those are wear items for any vehicle...
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