Sway control... mtns

[BML]

ok so taking my first trip in my new 24" 2500hd (from a 1500). Question is, taking a drive to the mtns, very easy, clean roads, speeds35-40MPH. I think I'm going with no Blue OX Sway Pro WDH for this?? I do plan to use it while any freeway driving or any trips with speeds above 40 ... Am I thinking ok for this trip, or would you load up the WDH? Again, easy drive, clear roads. Any advice, knowledge is appreciate. ** I am 100% comfortable towing, cautious and this is a road to our local ski resort that I've done for the last 40+ years. No snow, just a Ski Patrol training weekend.

[DewTheDew]

I am sure you would be fine. My thinking, however, is if I have a hitch and sway bar then I'm hooking it up. It doesn't take long so I will ALWAYS hook it up. If I didn't yet have the sway set up purchased and just had a ball, I might go for it. But if I already have the set up, I'm setting it up!

[Bobbo]

I have an F-350, so I technically don't need WD at all, but, I won't get on the road without it because of its exceptional sway control. I consider sway control to be absolutely essential.

[BML]

Thanks Bobbo, you always have great input on all topics.... Yes, I read all topics on the regular just to learn, so thank you!

[BML]

yep, it's all setup and ready, just add the bars.... Sounds like from the 'experts" (you guys), I'll put the bars on and go. better to be safe than sorry.

[Ray Eklund]

(Do not try this on your own. This is not for the inexperienced Human Bean who wants to avoid any accident TOWING or NOT. I have posted only MY Experiences as a Neanderthal. You may want to experiment, but to do so, can be risky at best. I would not, on purpose, drive where there is the possibility of Snow or Icy Road Conditions. Never.)

Having sway control if there is light snow or thin scattered or no ice, on the black top... will not help you at all. Tap the brakes and you will be getting true experience about... TRACTION. Sway control will then Control the Tow Vehicle.

No Sway Control as I Tow... On the Ball. Works for my experience and loads. (Neanderthal Logic, of course)

"A Utah Bed Time Story during mid day."

We were camped at Cedar Breaks, Utah (east of Cedar City, Utah) at 10,000+ in late May/early June. We were going down on the East side... a snow flurry developed and began to add about a quarter inch of snow... onto the, now wet pavement. At elevation... anything can happen in weather.

Immediately began looking for a Pull Out off the two lane down grade, meandering paved road. None looking ahead, at all.

No pull outs. The road meandered and I could feel, even light brake pressure, was NOT feeling GOOD. Tapping... and slowly... managing the braking, so not to lose control with a meandering paved road. (It was partly cloudy and nice when we began to leave.)

Did I say.. meandering? Yep... and too often.

Got down below the Snow and to the Wet... and during all of this managed to control my Brain not to do... stupid. At elevation... you never know what to expect.

Towing ON the BALL with the F350 4x4 then engaged once the snow began. Did not need Sway. I doubt if it would have made a difference... caution and experience of driving Wyoming's winters became great experience traveling from Laramie to Cheyenne, Wyoming. And years driving from Littleton, Colorado west into the Ski Country passes at Keystone and Loveland.

Sway Bars may have been a negative... in my situation. I managed well from experience and like a Skier or Snow Boarder... on Ice... sway bars would not help a skier, I would say.

Traveled everywhere Trailer Camping since 2006... all kinds of weather. Hate the snow flurry situations and the MUD going up or down hill. We avoid both if necessary, even if it takes a day or two of laying back.

Driving north of Casper, Wyoming with strong cross winds... on the Ball... no problem. No 18 wheelers as we ended up with the Highway being closed and no choice but to keep moving north. Was surprised as to the trailer Weight and Tow Vehicle not affected... no Sway Bars.

I do not advise anyone to change what they are doing, now or tomorrow. For us... we have seen it all and you change your towing behavior and towing an Airstream behavior as you need.

One step at a time. Test your ability gradually in different circumstances. It does not hurt to get a sense of snow on a road... on a flat parking lot that has not been plowed. (You will figure it out with or without 4x4, or Sway Bars and with 16 inch Michelins... immediately.)

Ice and Snow... immediately find a spot off the highway and far enough so someone does not plow into you... Think the Worst... and you will manage to figure it out on your own.

[Andy543]

Originally Posted by BML

ok so taking my first trip in my new 24" 2500hd (from a 1500). Question is, taking a drive to the mtns, very easy, clean roads, speeds35-40MPH. I think I'm going with no Blue OX Sway Pro WDH for this?? I do plan to use it while any freeway driving or any trips with speeds above 40 ... Am I thinking ok for this trip, or would you load up the WDH? Again, easy drive, clear roads. Any advice, knowledge is appreciate. ** I am 100% comfortable towing, cautious and this is a road to our local ski resort that I've done for the last 40+ years. No snow, just a Ski Patrol training weekend.

A 2500 will not need WD or sway control hitch. You will be better off without one. Remember, these hitches are not safety devices. They are used to try to make up for the inadequacies of towing with an undersized tow vehicle. Your 2500 will be perfectly balanced without having to distribute weight, and it will not sway at any highway speed.

Many people are concerned about sway, but remember that your truck has electronic sway control, so you would always have that to fall back on. If you are still concerned about possible sway, I would recommend a simple friction sway control bar. These can be had for under $100, and they don't have the disadvantages of increased tongue weight and overhang that combination WD/sway control hitches have.

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by Andy543

A 2500 will not need WD or sway control hitch. You will be better off without one. Remember, these hitches are not safety devices.

While I agree that a 2500 will not need WD, EVERYONE needs sway control. It is absolutely a safety device. It is irresponsible to not use every tool in the toolbox to prevent sway. Sway is dangerous not only to you, but to anyone trying to pass you in the next lane. A swaying trailer hitting another car in the next lane over is undesirable.

Originally Posted by Andy543

Many people are concerned about sway, but remember that your truck has electronic sway control, so you would always have that to fall back on. If you are still concerned about possible sway, I would recommend a simple friction sway control bar. These can be had for under $100, and they don't have the disadvantages of increased tongue weight and overhang that combination WD/sway control hitches have.

The truck's sway control is reactive. It doesn't kick in until you already have noticable sway. The sway control in the WD hitch is proactive. It PREVENTS sway. However, I do not necessarily think the WD sway control is better than the friction sway control. You just need to have one or the other.

As far as "increased tongue weight and overhang", that is insignificant. If you are so close to payload that the weight of a WD hitch head puts you over, you are already overweight. The additional overhang is 6 inches, at most, which is insignificant.

[Ray Eklund]

Post #7 Andy543.... you are 100% a competent owner of an Airstream and understand that with a 3/4 or 1 ton Tow Vehicle you Do Not Need Weight Distribution... which is what creates Sway Control. (In my case up to 27/28 feet).

Those with a longer Airstream may want to comment. I would imagine a 30 foot Airstream would also be among those Towing on the Ball. Anyone?

Sales people Sell WD/SC to new trailer owners with a 3/4 and 1 ton tow vehicle. Not for safety. It is for $$$$$.

Also WD used on a more than adequate 250/350 Tow Vehicle can cause Front End Separation issues and Front End Compression issues, for trailers with the front storage compartment. A 27/28 foot Airstream is towed easily with on the Ball with a 250/350 pickup. Having 4x4 would also help in weather conditions needing more traction.

I believed all of this until I removed the Sway Bars. It created too much stress on the Airstream frame up front. WD is for under sized tow vehicles. SC is needed for those with undersized Tow Vehicle and Oversized Airstream.

Sure... go ahead and do SC/WD with a poorly matched Tow Vehicle to Travel Trailer. When we pass undersized Tow Vehicles towing a Travel Trailer... you can see the Tow Vehicle Front is UP and the Ball is Down due to too much weight on the Ball and inadequate suspension.

Squealing SC/WD on turns indicates too much WD and Trailer frame stressing, as well.

When making a turn in a Parking Lot... the Bars would make so much noise as to scare pedestrians with the SC/WD appled to the Equalizer Hitch. Did not need it at all... And not good for the front end of the trailer. Read those Treads about Front End Separation and... Compression indents on the left and right sides of the 27FB storage compartment. Just above the battery box. Excessive WD/SC did it.

Come by and check out my F350 4x4 Diesel and 27FBQ and an Oliver Elite II setup. Tow perfectly and without any inconvenience of pucker factors, ever.

(Do not try this on your own. Consult with someone who tows on the Ball. Ignore my experiences towing Airstreams. A F350 cured it all.)

[SunchaserV]

Two months ago, we bought a Nash 25KT (28'). The dry weight is 7,000 lb and wet 9,200 lbs. We pulled it with an F150 eco boost and Blue Ox sway control. There was lots of power and no problem with that side of things.

But, the lightly loaded truck trailer combination did not feel right on a freeway at 65 -70 with no semi traffic traffic at all. Tongue weight was on the mark at about 10-12%. The F150 felt light on the front end with the truck and trailer level at 8-9 links.

We knew going into this that the truck would be on the edge so we purchased a new F250 diesel a month ago. What a world of difference with the same Blue Ox setup.

But the Ox bothers me for several reasons such as being quite heavy, the bar setup procedure seems silly having to stress the tongue jack to lift the truck itself to engage or disengage the Ox and IMHO dangerous due to torsion applied. At 81 years old do I need this physical effort of the OX setup? BTW, I remain fit and strong but as you young'uns all will find out, age brings with it a bit more common sense - hopefully- when lifting heavy stuff.

So last week I tried towing with the F250 on the ball with an all Al hitch weighing less than 20 lbs. No problem at all cruising at 65-70 and quite easy to engage and disengage. This an apples to apples comparison but not yet in any strong winds or fast semi traffic. Time will tell under those conditions, and I will haul the Ox for those forecast bad conditions, if I ever feel the need to install it.

Electronic sway control on new pickups seems a nice improvement too. For sure, those who sell sway control hitches excoriate them as do a few of those driving older rigs without electronic sway control. Me, I'll just try to avoid those strong springtime Dakota winds as I feel my way through this real or imagined hitch sway control debate for bigger pickups.

I do fondly recall Airstreams racking up huge miles when being pulled by a 1970s 3/4 ton Suburban on the ball. Those were great days and right in the AS design low stress envelope- which suits the AS build model quite well.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by SunchaserV

But the Ox bothers me for several reasons such as being quite heavy, the bar setup procedure seems silly having to stress the tongue jack to lift the truck itself to engage or disengage the Ox

I still raise the tongue jack and truck bed to engage the Equalizer bars without using any tool.
If I used a Blue Ox I'd toss the wrench and replace it with a 2' breaker bar with a 1" socket. Easier to apply enough torque.

So last week I tried towing with the F250 on the ball with an all Al hitch weighing less than 20 lbs. No problem at all

You're not alone. IIRC, The YouTube streamers, KYD started towing on the ball with their F-250 also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFSS4Hy5di4

[SunchaserV]

Thanks for the video link MD. KYD seems a bright guy.

His towing findings, without a sway control hitch but with good fore and aft balance, seems a testament to towing 101. As a side note, the utuber found out, shells can be limiting for tail gate utilization with the trailer hitched up.

[kb0zke]

We're seriously looking at a 2021 FC 30 RBQ. Biggest downside so far is that it is nearly 1000 miles NORTH of here (SE NM). NOT the direction to be going in winter, but you take what you can find where it is and deal with it.


Our tow vehicle is a 2016 F350 SRW crew cab 4x4. Current trailer is very nose-heavy, so dropping the tongue on the ball really drops the truck's tail. We have a Blue Ox Sway Pro setup with 2000 pound bars, and tow in the 8th link, which puts us nearly perfectly level. I have a set of 1000 pound bars which we will use on the FC if that's what we end up getting. Airstream says the FC has a tongue weight of well under 1000 pounds. I suspect that, in real life, it is very much closer to the 1000 pounds, and maybe a pound or two over.


Questions: Would it make sense to use the 1000 pound bars on the 8th link to bring the FC back to The Ranch? How much drop should I accept if I decide to go with, say, link #4 just to get some sway control? Or, should I try just towing on the ball and not even bothering with the bars?


The FC (or whatever we end up getting) will be fairly empty as we bring it back, and then we'll load it for normal life after we get back to The Ranch. We'll do a Smart Weigh this spring as we head out for the summer's adventures once we figure out what those might be.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by kb0zke

Questions: Would it make sense to use the 1000 pound bars on the 8th link to bring the FC back to The Ranch? How much drop should I accept if I decide to go with, say, link #4 just to get some sway control? Or, should I try just towing on the ball and not even bothering with the bars?

The FC (or whatever we end up getting) will be fairly empty as we bring it back, and then we'll load it for normal life after we get back to The Ranch. We'll do a Smart Weigh this spring as we head out for the summer's adventures once we figure out what those might be.

You have the WD hitch, and the 1000 lb bars, so it makes sense to use them. Don't worry so much about the tow vehicle rear squat, instead think about the front axle lift. WD isn't there to reduce rear squat, it is to restore some front axle load. Don't go by the links when you first set it up, that is for after you have got it dialed in and just want to keep it the same each time you rehitch.

Recommend you measure the front fender height before you hitch up the trailer. Then drop the trailer on the ball, and measure the front fender height again. Then use sufficient WD tension to bring it halfway back, which is approximately 50% FALR. That will be a good starting point until you get it weighed, when you can confirm the individual axle loads.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Post #7 Andy543.... you are 100% a competent owner of an Airstream and understand that with a 3/4 or 1 ton Tow Vehicle you Do Not Need Weight Distribution... which is what creates Sway Control. (In my case up to 27/28 feet).

A F350 cured it all.)

Thank you, glad to know that our 2500 TV's have not been needed for the last 40yrs.

The statement WD "causes" sway is

Improper loading, WD adjustment and human input are on the top of that list.

As far as FES. HD TV suspension, harsh non-compliant lash-up, square non-tapered WD bars that are stiffer than needed and poor AS design top that list.

Sweet Streams

Bob
🇺🇸

[kb0zke]

Thanks, jcl. Yes, a Smart Weigh will be done after we get the Airstream and figure out what needs to go along and where it will ride. Of course, the first step is actually buying an Airstream...


We actually looked at a couple on our travels this summer. Since we're full-timers, we would have had to trade our current trailer in, and I had only the 2,000 pound bars with me because that's what this trailer needs. Now that we're back at The Ranch I have both bars. Even if we were to trade in this trailer, I think I'll keep both sets of bars until I know for sure which would be the better set.


Someone, on another thread, suggested that to get a ballpark guesstimate of what the tongue weight might be I should divide the advertised tongue weight by the advertised empty weight and multiply that by the actual trailer weight. That would give a predicted tongue weight for that FC of about 1,200 pounds or maybe a bit less.

[ROBERT CROSS]

^^^^

My experience...it's best to 'rate' your WD bars according to how much weight you need to move. The lighter the better. POI..we started with 1400lb bars.

As an example.
1200lb TW, on Sherline scale
860lb receiver weight with WD set
560 to the FA
160 to the AS
720 moved With 1000lb bars and Hensley Arrow hitch.

Actual LOADED for camping weights are a must.
The CAT scales will help a lot here.

Bob
🇺🇸

[JJTX]

Let's not forget, a perfect setup towing on the ball only with no distribution or sway control system ( mechanical ) can still experience destructive and catastrophic sway.

It can be induced by a bunch of factors you don't have control of. Even a tire blowout at 40MPH.

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Thank you, glad to know that our 2500 TV's have not been needed for the last 40yrs.

"...you Do Not Need Weight Distribution... which is what creates Sway Control. (In my case up to 27/28 feet."
The statement WD "causes" sway is

*******
Improper loading, WD adjustment and human input are on the top of that list.

As far as FES. HD TV suspension, harsh non-compliant lash-up, square non-tapered WD bars that are stiffer than needed and poor AS design top that list.

Sweet Streams

Bob
����

*******
The statement WD "causes" sway is
CREATES SWAY CONTROL ... Not 'Causes' Sway. Read the previous Post again...

An Equalizer Hitch uses friction bars that slide onto L Brackets, attached to the Frame of the Airstream being towed. There are 500# and 1000# Bars. When you apply MORE PRESSURE ON THESE BARS to Lift the Rear End (weight distribution) to the Tow Vehicle, to LOWER the Front End on the Tow Vehicle... This creates more Friction on the L Brackets.

This Friction ON THE L BRACKETS is designed to PREVENT SWAY. So called "SWAY CONTROL". This Does Not CREATE SWAY. If that is what you intended to tell me...

Without this friction, NO Sway Control or Front to Back Tow Vehilce changes. Undersized Tow Vehicles will be creating more and more Friciton on the L Brackets... and no additional front end being lowered, and the rear end being raised.

Those who grease the L Brackets due to the NOISE, are defeating the friction needed to PREVENT SWAY. Not causing it. You NEED the FRICTION to PREVENT SWAY. No friction, No sway control.

Equalizer Hitches using the Bars... you need the WD to increase the SC ability. Undersized Tow Vehicles need this. MY F350... does not need the Bars to prevent SWAY... My vehicle is perfectly balanced for a 27FBQ Airstream, Towed On the Ball, NO Bars as I do not need Sway Control.

Also... I consider anyone with a FBQ 27 foot, using BARS on lighter tow vehicles... could find the possible Front End Compression indents on the left and right Storage Compartment corners.

I needed WD towing with a 2006 Toyota 4.7L 4x4 with a 23 foot, and towing a 25 foot with a later, larger Toyota 4x4 5.7L. Not with my F350 Diesel 4x4. I never tried towing on the Ball, the lighter tow vehicles. So no experience, pro or against the stiff ride, due to excessive WD was very noticeable.

I hope this does add more to the discussion. I tow on the ball and do not need sway control, towing our 27FBQ with the F350 Diesel 4x4.

Then out come those with PSI, Tires and Wind... Tow in Wyoming. Great experience.

Luck Towing... has nothing to do with Experience Towing.

Took Three Airstreams and Three Tow Vehicles to sort out the BS on the Forum about WD/SC Hitches. Call me lucky to be a Neanderthal.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

*******
The statement WD "causes" sway is
CREATES SWAY CONTROL ... Not 'Causes' Sway. Read the previous Post again...

Ray, maybe go back and read your own posts again.

It is Andy that has claimed that WD equipment reduces safety, and causes sway. Not you. Andy apparently believes that WD causes oversteer, leading to sway events.

What you did was agree with him, and applaud his knowledge.

New posters should understand that what he is recommending is not supported by the manufacturer of his tow vehicle, or Airstream. It is not supported by the studies he has often quoted.

You have qualified your comments to note that what you are doing works for you, and that everyone should evaluate their own setup. Andy makes no such qualifying statements.