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Old 04-08-2020, 12:45 PM   #161
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I think the post about replicating an emergency braking situation on an abandon road is probably the most beneficial suggestions I've read on this forum. The perfect environment for this, however, is an old airport runway or large parking lot so you have ample space on each side of you to recover. On a two lane highway, you have to be careful not to wind up somewhere where pavent isn't. I've got a background in teaching professionally and non professionally high performance driving. A couple of years back I was trying to establish a Street Survival Course, sponsored by the Tire Rack, in our town and had to make a presentation to the city council. I asked the seven (7) member board if any of them had ever planted their foot into their brake pedal to the point of feeling the ABS kick in. Only one person raised his hand. I would suggest exercising Threshold Braking with your tow vehicle (TV) all by itself, first. I would take everything out of your TV that's not tied down so you won't get any flying surprises. After several runs increasing the speed each time, I would take your TV home and then do it again with it loaded, like you were going on vacation. Do several runs with your foot vibrating and see what happens. This will help you figure out what needs to be tied down, better. Lastly, I would connect the Airstream and do it again, starting with 25 mph and then increasing the speed in 5 mph increments until it either gets too scary or you have reached your max towing speed. If things start getting squirrely, you need to stop the exercise and figure out what needs to be adjusted.
In my opinion, the tow vehicle needs to be a stable platform to perform as best as possible in adverse conditions, like strong side winds, steep hills and Threshold Braking situations. Understanding how your TV reacts to Threshold Braking is probably the most important aspect of safely towing and the least practiced.
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:50 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Steve340 View Post
My 1968 Ford F100. Been towing my 25FB for 8 years up and down passes here in the Pacific Northwest! No stability problems or brakings issues whatsoever.
I think it is fantastic that in a thread with 1/2 ton in the title, we finally have a half ton, eg an F100/C10/K10/D100. Nice truck. We had several F100s when I was growing up, but also an F150, an F250, and so on.

When the Heavy Half (as it was called at the time) was created, with heavier duty components than the original half tons (primarily the rear axle and brakes) the need for a 3/4 ton was greatly reduced. Then the half tons went away. But the references to them live on in towing threads.
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:50 PM   #163
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Here's another thought.......If your tow vehicle for your example a 9000# RV, (mine was 8261#) is overkill, (F250 6.7L Diesel with heavier springs and rear axle), what is the downside except cost? On the other hand a 150/1500 with redline on payload and hitch weight (according to door sticker, other than cost, what is the downside?

At that weight of 9000#, (not a Flying Cloud or small GlobeTrotter), redlining the numbers leaves you with almost no margin other than 1 person and little luggage and even then for the cost savings I found it to be no fun, and I was the closest to your 9000# with an 8261# with full LP and batteries and nothing else in it....no water....no anything. I get the cost difference, but in my experience the downside was considerable. My personal opinion, and just my opinion for me only, is I went back to the dealer, said your brochure and assurances were way off from the door pillar, and we came to an amiable agreement on a upgrade. Sure more money, but amiable, and no regrets at all. My mistake in not reading these forums first and trusting dealer brochures.....but dealer was honest, agreed we discussed it at length, agreed brochure was way off from door pillar, and safety at that hitch weight and payload was an issue. No regrets at all. No downside IMO and happy with cost difference and large margin on payload capacity, engine capacity, and sway/leveling and highway performance. IMO, and just my opinion, if you can afford a new Airstream these days, you can afford the right tow vehicle.....don't make my mistake and go cheap based on manufacturer's brochures. Read these forums! Lifesaver!
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:04 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by starpicker View Post
Here's another thought.......If your tow vehicle for your example a 9000# RV, (mine was 8261#) is overkill, (F250 6.7L Diesel with heavier springs and rear axle), what is the downside except cost? On the other hand a 150/1500 with redline on payload and hitch weight (according to door sticker, other than cost, what is the downside?
The reference to redlining is not relevant when considering a turbocharged 3 orf 3.5 litre engine. My 3.0 twin turbo gasoline engine hit peak torque at 1300 rpm, lower than many diesels.

The downside is daily use. If one has a dedicated tow vehicle and little need to use it other than for towing, then it makes more sense to spend on a heavier truck. If one lives on a farm and wants to move hay bales occasionally, it makes a lot of sense. But if one lives in an urban area, uses underground parking occasionally, and so on, then a smaller lighter truck is just nicer to use on many fronts (having used both).
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:08 PM   #165
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My goodness, this debate just goes on and on forever. Let’s make it easy to decide. Look at the suspension on a 3/4 or one ton truck. Look at the same on a 1/2 ton. Now look at your wife and kids. Decision made.
Airstream, long ago, proved the trailer could be pulled with a bicycle. So from that standpoint a 1/2 ton is an overkill. The question should be, “do you want the best control and authority over the trailer on the road, or do want to be within limits and also have a cushy soft riding daily driver.”
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:25 PM   #166
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Ditto on the Silverado 1500 with max tow pkg. Going on 40,000 miles with my FC30. Love it. Plenty of useful load as well to handle tongue weight, humans and cargo.
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:28 PM   #167
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By your statement it would seem that no trailers over ~26' should ever be towed since they would all weigh much more than the truck. I have never heard the "rule of thumb" that trucks should always weigh more than the trailer. Where did you find that "rule"?
Canyon
He made it up. It is a variation on Euro towing regulations (also used by UHaul) whereby surge brakes are activated by the slowing of the tow vehicle. Not applicable to trailers with electric brakes, or any Airstream. Yet here we are
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:29 PM   #168
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Wow! Eight pages in four days—I'm not even going to start reading.

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Old 04-08-2020, 01:34 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Howard L. View Post
The question should be, “do you want the best control and authority over the trailer on the road, or do want to be within limits and also have a cushy soft riding daily driver.”
No interest in a cushy soft ride here, rather a controlled ride. Lower tow vehicle weight, lower unsprung weight, shorter stopping distances, all point away from a heavier duty truck unless one requires very high cargo capacity. For many, that presumed cargo requirement can be avoided by managing cargo.
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:00 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Moodywelman View Post
I’ve been reading all these threads about truck size vs trailer weight and wondering where I went wrong. I haven’t towed in years b75 in the seventies I had a 1/2 ton Chevy with a 10’ camper and I pulled a 4 horse trailer with about 3500 pounds of horses plus tack and feed up into the Cascade mountains of Washington. No problem whatsoever, circumstances dictated speed.
That was from back in the days when we had common sense, and drove what we had to suit vehicle and road conditions. Nowadays, everybody seems to want to be able to travel at or above the speed limit, uphill or down, rain, snow, sleet or hail, and look for somebody to sue when things go South on them. Back in those same good old days, we towed a travel trailer behind our 1968 VW bus. We never went over 45mph, and most of the time a lot less. And my dad still rear-ended a U-Haul truck because he couldn't stop fast enough, though that was after we got a Chevy Impala for a tow vehicle.
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:15 PM   #171
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1. If you have a 3/4 ton (especially diesel) you will say that anyone that drives with less is an unsafe idiot on the road.

2. If you have a 1/2 ton and you like towing with it you will like the original post.

This is a pointless argument with little objectivity, because the bigger is better boys will always vote that way. And those that think bigger isn't always better will always state that opinion.

So who really is objective? Answer; NO ONE.

As for me I use an F150 that can tow over 12,000 lbs. I tow a 28' that isn't suppose to max over 7600lbs. It works with my PP Hitch just fine. So I personally think the video was informative in this respect:
1) The lack of difference in gas mileage was a surprise.
2) The comfort of the ride with the F150 was better than the F250.
3) The V8 is a pretty good engine, although I like the 3.5 Ecoboost better.
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:16 PM   #172
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Here’s my thoughts.
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:30 PM   #173
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Cooper S

Average 30 MPG, 1500lbs payload/rear seat capacity, excellent visibility underneath the 25FB. No issues driving through the Smokey, Rocky or White Mountains. No trailer sway with properly adjusted hitch. The 3 cylinder Cooper is fine for the Bambi Nest and Basecamp. The 4 cylinder Cooper S model is preferred for double axel trailers. Electric trailer brakes very helpful.
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Old 04-08-2020, 03:06 PM   #174
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Sleeping Bags and Tow Vehicles

My Dad, a World War 2 veteran in Artillery, referred to a Sleeping Bag, as a... Fart Sack.

My time in the US Army, given a pup tent and sleeping bag at Basic Training, I finally understood what he meant. It was the experience that I learned to understand.

This leads me to these discussions. I do not care if someone with a different tow vehicle agrees with my choice of Tow Vehicle or not. This discussion is to provide different experiences for those trying to decide what works for them.

Some members have spent too much time in a Sleeping Bag and overcome with grief, since Airstreams do not have sleeping bag options. Take a deep breath and give your experiences and points. Otherwise... do not smoke in your tent.

I purchased what works for me. Others did the same. Some day, you may find someone with a tow vehicle and trailer combination you might consider. Ask for a ride. What are these Rallies all about, anyway?
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Old 04-08-2020, 04:02 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Steven62 View Post
Average 30 MPG, 1500lbs payload/rear seat capacity, excellent visibility underneath the 25FB. No issues driving through the Smokey, Rocky or White Mountains. No trailer sway with properly adjusted hitch. The 3 cylinder Cooper is fine for the Bambi Nest and Basecamp. The 4 cylinder Cooper S model is preferred for double axel trailers. Electric trailer brakes very helpful.
If you are towing with a Cooper, you might want to update your TV profile.

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Old 04-08-2020, 04:14 PM   #176
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2019 1500 GMC 27FB Excellant TV

We tow our 27FB Serenity with a 1500 Sierra crew cab SLT GMC ( short 5.6” bed) GCW 17800#, 1760# cargo , 6.2L , 10 spd, 3.73 rear end, MaxTow Package. Great combo on the road, in town, thru gas stations, parking lots. Very stable on road.. 11.4 mpg on Fla to Utah and back running 70 - 72 on Interstates. GMC ride is excellent. Great combination.
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Old 04-08-2020, 04:19 PM   #177
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Whoa...

175 posts in four days commenting on an issue rarely (if ever), discussed on the forums...

Some even with charts, figures and calculations!


/s
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Old 04-08-2020, 05:15 PM   #178
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Whoa...

175 posts in four days commenting on an issue rarely (if ever), discussed on the forums...

Some even with charts, figures and calculations!


/s
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It's either this or the COVID-19 discussion. Take your pick.
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Old 04-08-2020, 06:33 PM   #179
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Yes, that's a 5th wheel trailer. A bumper pull trailer is completely different. If the trailer is too big for the tow vehicle it will push the back of the tow vehicle around.

I've posted this chart from the National Association of Trailer Manufacturers before. It may be worth posting it again.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/att...3&d=1586025702
I went back to study this chart again as you suggested, and unless I'm reading it incorrectly, by this chart it's not possible to stably pull a trailer with a mass much greater than the tow vehicle and yet millions of safe miles have been logged doing just that. Are all these people just lucky? The chart indicates both the tow vehicle and the trailer are unstable regardless of the tongue weight. If the chart is accurate divine intervention must be keeping all these trailers on the road. Surely you can describe the dichotomy, because the best and most rational explanation is that the chart is wrong.
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Old 04-08-2020, 08:07 PM   #180
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I'm considering getting a cement truck to tow my trailer based on the chart.
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