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Old 04-06-2020, 05:44 PM   #101
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The actual thread was about towing ability of an F-150 vs a larger truck. It had nothing to do with payload.
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Old 04-06-2020, 05:58 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by out of sight View Post
Yes, you can tow a 9000 lb trailer with a 1/2 ton truck, but you can't safely travel at highway speeds. For that you will need a larger truck. One rule of thumb is that the truck should weigh more than the trailer.
If the OEM certifies their half-ton to pull a designated weight it would mean it could so "safely". My F150 is rated to 14,000.
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Old 04-06-2020, 06:06 PM   #103
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That's a real good question. My RAM is certified for 17,300 lbs towing ability but would I feel comfortable towing 17,300 lbs at highway speeds? No. Half that, maybe. The auto industry ratings in my opinion are way higher than they should be.
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Old 04-06-2020, 06:15 PM   #104
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Your story something more than a wild guess but less than a well-established theory.


Bob
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You clearly have no real world experience dealing with these issues......or you would not say such uninformed things....Why do you think heavy duty trucks are made? Just for fun? Just for kicks? Just because the auto manufacturers are bored and want to throw money down a hole? Oh, or is it because there is actually a need for a machine designed to haul heavier loads?

They make heavy duty trucks, to haul heavier loads. Yes, thats right.....If you want to haul your 27' camper with your toyota tacoma and a $3000.00 hitch, and claim it is cool and safe, then go ahead, but saying something does not make it real. Being a tightwad, and refusing to buy the proper truck, that is designed to haul heavy loads, is legal, and it is stupid.

The old adage, "Just because you can, does not mean you should", was never truer......

I have hauled big heavy loads all over the USA.....in every conceivable circumstance known to man.....I could write a book on hauling heavy loads....Using the right vehicle is very important....using heavy duty vehicles to haul heavy loads is just common sense, and if you do not do it, you are being wreckless and endangering everyone else on the road, not to mention unnecessarily abusing your truck.

Advising someone else to use an F-150 to haul a 9000 lb. load is irresponsible.
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Old 04-06-2020, 06:42 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Rpatrick16 View Post
If the OEM certifies their half-ton to pull a designated weight it would mean it could so "safely". My F150 is rated to 14,000.
I'll tell you a story that goes back about 20 years or so where I let OEM certifications cloud my judgement why certification or ratings aren't the only things to consider.

I guess I have to go back to 1999 when i bought aluminum framed 30' SOB lightweight trailer that I was going to tow with my Chevy Astro Ext Van with the factory towing package. With engine and transmission and weight distribution hitch it was rated to pull 6,000 lbs. I had a Reese Dual-Cam Sway control and the trailer was about 3,800 lbs. To the credit of the Chevy I had the power with a big premium gassed HD engine, a factory towing package, and 4.10 rear axle. On top of that a great hitch. The fly in the ointment was what wind did to this combo.

Trailer hung in right behind the van no appreciable sway....but that trailer was a giant sail. When I got hit by cross winds the entire combo shifted in unison. I remember the process of having to correct the vehicle due to the forces that were being applied to the combo. I literally was limited to a 300 mile distance for a day's tow. And when we got off the road for the day, I was exhausted. I knew from that point on that even though all the numbers that I used to determine if a vehicle is able to pull a trailer, there were forces in hand that I didn't consider. Bottom line that van with all its brute force and strength, just didn't have enough mass to fight those cross winds.

Understand this comparison probably doesn't address the original question totally, but I did want to make the point that OEM ratings can't be the only thing you need to consider if a vehicle is suitable for your specific application.

One final postscript to my story. After one season I dumped the Astro for a Chevy 1/2 ton passenger van. Towing capacity of the full sized van was only 500 lbs more. Handling with that same trailer and the same hitch and sway control hook up differed like night and day in windy conditions.

I kept that 1/2 ton Chevy van for for 3 years and pulled my first Airstream with it (27' Safari). A year after buying the Safari, I bought a 3/4 ton GMC Passenger Van. Reason why was because my goal was a 30' Classic Slide Out and I knew that jumping from a 6,500 lb Safari to a 9,100 lbs Classic with almost a 1,300 lb hitch weight was going to require a much more robust towing vehicle. Almost 17 years has gone by since I bought that Classic. I still have it, and 18 years after buying that GMC, I still have that 3/4 ton van. It has been the perfect tow vehicle me.

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Old 04-06-2020, 06:55 PM   #106
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I wouldn't want to say that you can't absolutely tow the rated load safely. There are farmers and contractors that have to tow their tractors and backhoes around town with F-150's. Airstream owners are different. Some of them want to tow their trailers 3000 miles on interstate highways with 80 mph speed limits. For those speeds you really need a bigger truck.
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Old 04-06-2020, 06:59 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by jcanavera View Post
<snip>

Trailer hung in right behind the van no appreciable sway....but that trailer was a giant sail. When I got hit by cross winds the entire combo shifted in unison. I remember the process of having to correct the vehicle due to the forces that were being applied to the combo. I literally was limited to a 300 mile distance for a day's tow. And when we got off the road for the day, I was exhausted. I knew from that point on that even though all the numbers that I used to determine if a vehicle is able to pull a trailer, there were forces in hand that I didn't consider. Bottom line that van with all its brute force and strength, just didn't have enough mass to fight those cross winds.

<snip>

Jack

Interesting story!


My Tundra DCLB gross weight is 7200. I wouldn't be at all surprised if I have a 1:1 weight ratio between the TV and the AS when loaded for camping.
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Old 04-06-2020, 09:45 PM   #108
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I think your 25' with that 1/2T is a great combo...what is your Payload rating on the doorjam? Most 1/2T RAM's I looked at couple years back were hard pressed to offer more then 1300lb rating...maybe things have changed? But, still, for a 25' you should be fine...I miss driving around with a smaller TV for sure.
Thank you Gypsydad. At the risk of going too far off topic (not that that hasnít happened on this thread), the payload on our Ram Bighorn is 1740 lb, less 100 for the folding bed cover and running board steps. The Bighorn doesnít have all the bells and whistles (they are added weight after all) but enough of them to make it comfortable.
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Old 04-06-2020, 11:14 PM   #109
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I need to work this evening, but I found this thread to have entertaining break. "My truck" vs. "your truck" may ignite heated discussion. Let alone truck vs. SUV discussion...

In particular, one poster is entertaining with his theories about WDH. Really amusing.

Happy camping and stay safe!
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Old 04-07-2020, 03:31 AM   #110
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If one is towing a heavy trailer down a narrow nine mile long twisting 12% grade in freezing rain in the dark, and doing it at 65 mph, towards a 25 mph corner with a 2000 foot drop, then they have essentially plotted their course...

As a (retired) State Trooper, freezing rain scares me as bad as wildfire (and Iíve dealt with both more than once). I have bad memories from one night on I-90 involving one fatal crash, a DUI rollover in the median, a jack-knifed semi with Haz-Mat Incident, and several other one car crashes, all unrelated to one another but within minutes of each other. We had three separate fatal crashes involving freezing rain that night.

Now that Iím retired, I donít drive in freezing rain and I wouldnít dream of towing any trailer in it under any circumstances.
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Old 04-07-2020, 06:30 AM   #111
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The main thing that affects the stability of the rig is the relative weight (more accurately, the yaw inertia) of the tow vehicle to the trailer. If the tow vehicle is too light it can't resist the sway and lateral movement of a heavier trailer. There's no way to get around that fact. A half ton weighs in at 5k lbs compared to 8k for a 3/4 ton. You can't make up for the 3k difference with springs or hitches.
Wrong again:
My 1/2 ton is 7100 GVWR and at the CAT scale it was 500lbs from excedding GVWR and 4000lbs under GCVWR. The difference is ~1000lbs between my F-150 and and a 8000lb truck. I will add that the weight may be beneficial, but really is a just piece of the 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton debate. I will get around your fact by saying it isn't a fact. The benefit of the larger truck is what else you can do when the truck is loaded on the hitch.
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Old 04-07-2020, 06:36 AM   #112
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I think one of your problems in understanding towing stability is that all you are considering is trailer instability (sway). Go back to the chart and contemplate what is indicated there as tow vehicle instability. This is what happens when you round a turn and the inertia of the trailer, which wants to go straight, pushes the rear of the truck sideways, leading to oversteer and potential jackknife. Sway in an Airstream is not dangerous, it's has more to do with what makes the driver uncomfortable. But tow vehicle stability can lead to an accident when the driver needs to make a sharp swerve. All of these hitches that address trailer stability make tow vehicle stability worse.
Tow vehicle stability makes no sense when you are a rig. Then rig stability matters. It becomes one vehicle with weight distributed by the hitch.

At that time you are hitch, your rig is stable or it isn't (degrees) and it is the rig characteristics that make it stable or not.
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Old 04-07-2020, 06:38 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Rpatrick16 View Post
If the OEM certifies their half-ton to pull a designated weight it would mean it could so "safely". My F150 is rated to 14,000.
Thank you.
Way to make a point.
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Old 04-07-2020, 07:08 AM   #114
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The best takeaway on this topic is that making such broad generalizations based on overall trailer weight alone is going to get you in trouble sooner or later.
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Old 04-07-2020, 07:32 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by mkcurtiss View Post
You clearly have no real world experience dealing with these issues......or you would not say such uninformed things....Why do you think heavy duty trucks are made? Just for fun? Just for kicks? Just because the auto manufacturers are bored and want to throw money down a hole? Oh, or is it because there is actually a need for a machine designed to haul heavier loads?

They make heavy duty trucks, to haul heavier loads. Yes, thats right.....If you want to haul your 27' camper with your toyota tacoma and a $3000.00 hitch, and claim it is cool and safe, then go ahead, but saying something does not make it real. Being a tightwad, and refusing to buy the proper truck, that is designed to haul heavy loads, is legal, and it is stupid.

The old adage, "Just because you can, does not mean you should", was never truer......

I have hauled big heavy loads all over the USA.....in every conceivable circumstance known to man.....I could write a book on hauling heavy loads....Using the right vehicle is very important....using heavy duty vehicles to haul heavy loads is just common sense, and if you do not do it, you are being wreckless and endangering everyone else on the road, not to mention unnecessarily abusing your truck.

Advising someone else to use an F-150 to haul a 9000 lb. load is irresponsible.
---------------

Sorry...I did not realize that you missed the fact that this thread relates to towing AS's NOT road elephants.

Just like most things here....Your opinions vs anyone else's opinions, anyone else will always win.🥴

BTW...I did not advise anyone to do anything, and I know nothing except what I've gained towing AS's for 33yrs.

Again...sorry I made you so upset.

Bob
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Old 04-07-2020, 08:36 AM   #116
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Thank you Gypsydad. At the risk of going too far off topic (not that that hasnít happened on this thread), the payload on our Ram Bighorn is 1740 lb, less 100 for the folding bed cover and running board steps. The Bighorn doesnít have all the bells and whistles (they are added weight after all) but enough of them to make it comfortable.
Steve
That is impressive payload, for sure with the RAM. They have come a long way. I remember both Toyota and RAM were the lowest in payload offerings when I was seriously comparing the 1/2T's in mid 2017.

I still lament not knowing enough when I purchased my first F150 Platinum 4x4...all I was concerned with was the fancy retractable running boards, the glitter inside, and how much it could tow! With a very small Max Payload of 1039lbs on the doorjam sticker, it would have been a "no sale" for me, had I understood payload...we ended up owning for 5 years, 130K+ miles, and I was carrying around a canoe or 2 kayaks, 45lb generator, firewood, camp gear, and my wife, the 55lb Boxer, and my 220lbs the first few years... no issues with my 3/4T.
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Old 04-07-2020, 08:54 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by KevinFH View Post
Tow vehicle stability makes no sense when you are a rig. Then rig stability matters. It becomes one vehicle with weight distributed by the hitch.

At that time you are hitch, your rig is stable or it isn't (degrees) and it is the rig characteristics that make it stable or not.
Again, I would recommend you go back and try to figure out that stability chart.
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Old 04-07-2020, 09:19 AM   #118
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Since some people seem to think anything anyone says is worthless without experience... Just since I have been at my current place of employment, I have installed a minimum of:
2 hitches per day, 4 days per week, 52 weeks per year, for ten years, as of last month.
For those of you bad at math, that equals
4,160 hitch installs.


Believe me when I say WD and sway control are needed on all but the smallest Airstreams being towed by larger vehicles that are properly configured to do so.
And those smallest Arsitreams still need to have sway control of some kind on them, whether it is mechanical or electronic.
If a half ton truck is rated to tow a weight of trailer, when you read the owner's manual, it says "When Properly Configured and Equipped".

A 3/4 ton truck will most likely tow the same trailer more comfortably, just by virtue of it being "overbuilt" for the task at hand. Almost all 3/4 ton trucks are exactly the same as their 1 ton brethren, with some very minor changes, such as taller spring blocks. If you don't believe me, compare parts sheets for, say, an F250 and an F350. You will see axles, brakes, springs, shocks, all suspension and chassis components are exactly the same parts, with the exception of the rear spring block being taller.


I would strongly suggest heeding the recommendations of the more experienced people on this forum, and their trusted dealerships, rather than the very limited user base of a small handful of people whose experience is limited to one trailer and one truck, that happens to be their own, and are simply trying to justify their actions to anyone who will listen.
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Old 04-07-2020, 05:22 PM   #119
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Vehicle weight is very important. as trailer weights get over 5000 lb.

The F-250 will do the job much longer than the f 150....you will tear up the 150. end of story.
So MKcurtis you are saying that if you tow over 5K you will damage a 1500?

Have you read any towing blogs or videos from a reputable Air Stream dealer in Canada? Canam RV,

This month he just did an article on the 150 vs 250 challenge

Ultra
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Old 04-07-2020, 05:29 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
And what if you're towing an 28 foot airstream down a narrow nine mile long twisting 12% grade in freezing rain late on a moonless night at 65 mph when suddenly the trailer brakes go out. There just ahead is a sharp 25 mph turn protected by a thin piece of bent rusty guardrail past which is the deadly 2,000 foot cliff of doom.

Which would you rather be driving, a F150 or F250?
A Mercedes or a Porsche
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