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Old 06-18-2020, 09:40 AM   #441
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Careful with pictures, they tend to show what the writer wants to show. When you carefully choose vehicles within a class, one to make a good fit and the other to make a poor basic fit and then allow aftermarket adjustments to improve one class but continue to compare it to another class that remains stock, as was done with the article, it's apples to oranges. Another writer who favors 3/4 ton trucks as the base can chose a 3/4 well fitted to the trailer and load, make parts swaps and comparing it to a carefully chosen poor fitting stock 1/2 ton, make the 3/4 look much better as well.

I'm not making an argument for 3/4 over 1/2. I am saying both have places where they do better than the other, it depends on the particular situation. Both can easily be modified to fit any situation within the performance range of the basic design of each vehicle, and can fit it well. If this article were set up apples to apples the differences would have been very slight.
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Old 06-18-2020, 10:51 AM   #442
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Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
So my payload numbers on my present pickup which is nearly identical to the one I bought (the only add ons were the side steps and the bed ladder) is 1890lbs. And that is with a rear axle rating of 3800lbs. My new one will have 4050lbs. I see no reason why it won’t be around that 1900lbs area. The diesel I was thinking about buying used had a payload number of 2100lbs. And that had a big topper on the rear with a roll out tray. Those diesels are really heavy. That means going to a gas. And you can get 3000lbs of payload easy. That 7.3 L Ford engine is a beast. But it gets 12 to 15 mpg on the road. My F150 gets about 11 to 12 mpg’s towing. Made no sense. Then when I saw that the diesel only got about .4 mpg’s better pulling the 9,000lb trailer that really made no sense.

What I’m going to do with the new one is see how it tows. I have the heavier duty 20” tires. However with the better towing tires I might just put on Bilstein heavy duty shocks; or I may add on the roadmaster suspension system which I have on my present pickup. That really made the ride better. Eliminates axle wrap and I can really level the truck out well.

This is the article I found that really tipped the scales for me to stay with a 1/2 ton; https://rvlifemag.com/towing-half-to...e-quarter-ton/

Look at the picture of the maneuver while driving. The F250 really doesn’t look that stable.

The article is by Andy Thompson from CanAM an Airstream dealer that sets up many many vehicles for towing.

Again I just don’t see the need for a 3/4 ton for my lifestyle; and I definitely don’t see the need for an expensive 3/4 ton diesel. Makes no monetary or practical sense.

That 1/2 ton Ecoboost is just such a good engine. Coupled with the Propride hitch I have a very stable set up with plenty of power to get where I need to go. And when I’m not towing I have a comfortable pickup to drive (which is about 80% of the time!).
The F250 is a great truck with AS's larger then 25'. Thats a "period!!", by the way! I do miss my F150, but no way would I consider towing our 28' with it for long trips...too small a payload rating, too light to tow the 28' for my liking, and I feel much more control/stability with the F250 6.7L. Automatic engine brake in tow haul mode is so much more relaxing then with the F150; up/down/around the Rockies in traffic, cruise on at 60-65...if you haven't experienced it, I would simply say, you don't know the difference. Many folks here on the Forum have commented same... That said, I do miss my F150 EB for daily driving!

As for Andy and CanAm; yes they built a reputation around "adjusting" tow vehicles, and have written some compelling articles...folks have commented on how well their TV's handle, even though originally, they were not designed to be a TV with the size load of an AS! That said, I still wonder why anyone would not consider the safety and technology of a TV today that was designed for the job of hauling a larger TT? To me, dosn't make sense to modify something else if it wasn't designed to be on the road with a larger payload and capability of safely towing a TT of size..thats just me though. YMMV
PS: I get 12.6-13.2 MPG avg at 65mph~ when towing; I just got 18.6 mpg avg speed at 75-80 mph (without AS) 390 miles from WY to our place in Lincoln, MT yesterday...(thru the mountains, by the way) F150 I avged 10-12 with the EB towing and would get around 17-18mpg on the road without towing...so, overall, the F250 is doing pretty good comparatively, now with 90K miles on her! (Just no comparison towing the 28'; F250 all around feels better, is my point!
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Old 06-18-2020, 11:03 AM   #443
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^
X2

I'm not really concerned how quickly we are thru a cone course, or towing with no payload after 3k worth of mod's.

But boy is it fast around corners.😂

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Old 06-18-2020, 11:27 AM   #444
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Again it seems you 3/4 ton guys just don't get it.
1) Why buy a pickup that I don't need? Yes, it really is nice for maybe the one time in 5 years I need it. I don't drive up and down the rockies at 60 to 65 on a regular basis. In fact I don't know if I'll ever drive in the Rockies. For those of you that do, great. But don't brag about the payload on a diesel. It's not there. 3/4 ton gas do.
2) I have towed my 28' with my F150 with absolutely no problems. And yes driving that big diesel around is an existential power experience. I can imagine using a Peter Built semi would be even more!! But it also shook the H... out of my teeth on a rough road. So again why buy something that I won't like driving 80% of the time only to like it when I might use it in some distant future, but I don't know when that might be in the Rockies. It makes no sense. And I towed my 28' with my F150 on a long trip without a problem. Covered 1500 miles. No sweat. Coupled with the Propride hitch and the right set up it was smooth sailing. And besides that I don't like driving much more than 6 or 7 hours in one day anyway.
3) As to modifications, people have been making modifications to cars since they were built. Is it really a big modification to put different shocks or tires on a pickup? It's not like I'm doing crazy stuff to the engine outside of dealer specs. Compared to a diesel truck it's cheap. These trucks today are designed to tow within their specifications in the most difficult environments. So if I can tow a 7600lb AS when that pickup is capable of towing up to 12,500lbs, why do I need a pickup that can tow 17,000lbs or 20,000lbs? Where does it end? You haven't made the argument just because it REALLY has a lot of power and it's a great experience. Yes, and driving a Camaro that can go from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds is a heck of a lot of fun too. But I don't need to go from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds; unless I want to just go for the power experience. But I can only go so fast down the road anyway. So it's pointless to make an argument that well "it's just a great power experience, and until you have experienced it you just don't know the difference." But hey, if you want to have that experience go for it. But don't berate or make us sound like we are doing something unsafe when we are well within the limits of the vehicle's capabilities.

I do real estate appraising. I've seen two people live in 2,000sf houses and in 6,000sf houses. The people in 6,000sf houses would never live in 2,000sf houses. I get it. But don't say a 2,000sf house isn't sufficient to live in for two people even though you might not like it based upon some existential experience.
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Old 06-18-2020, 11:38 AM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
^
X2

I'm not really concerned how quickly we are thru a cone course, or towing with no payload after 3k worth of mod's.

But boy is it fast around corners.😂

Bob
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So you don't think you'll ever have to do an evasive maneuver? And what's the deal about modifications. Your telling me you never buy a truck without making modifications?
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Old 06-18-2020, 11:38 AM   #446
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Automatic engine brake in tow haul mode is so much more relaxing then with the F150
My 2018 F-150 based SUV with the 10 speed does this. Trickle down tech, I guess. But it is very cool.
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Old 06-18-2020, 12:00 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
Again it seems you 3/4 ton guys just don't get it.
1) Why buy a pickup that I don't need? Yes, it really is nice for maybe the one time in 5 years I need it. I don't drive up and down the rockies at 60 to 65 on a regular basis. In fact I don't know if I'll ever drive in the Rockies. For those of you that do, great. But don't brag about the payload on a diesel. It's not there. 3/4 ton gas do.
2) I have towed my 28' with my F150 with absolutely no problems. And yes driving that big diesel around is an existential power experience. I can imagine using a Peter Built semi would be even more!! But it also shook the H... out of my teeth on a rough road. So again why buy something that I won't like driving 80% of the time only to like it when I might use it in some distant future, but I don't know when that might be in the Rockies. It makes no sense. And I towed my 28' with my F150 on a long trip without a problem. Covered 1500 miles. No sweat. Coupled with the Propride hitch and the right set up it was smooth sailing. And besides that I don't like driving much more than 6 or 7 hours in one day anyway.
3) As to modifications, people have been making modifications to cars since they were built. Is it really a big modification to put different shocks or tires on a pickup? It's not like I'm doing crazy stuff to the engine outside of dealer specs. Compared to a diesel truck it's cheap. These trucks today are designed to tow within their specifications in the most difficult environments. So if I can tow a 7600lb AS when that pickup is capable of towing up to 12,500lbs, why do I need a pickup that can tow 17,000lbs or 20,000lbs? Where does it end? You haven't made the argument just because it REALLY has a lot of power and it's a great experience. Yes, and driving a Camaro that can go from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds is a heck of a lot of fun too. But I don't need to go from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds; unless I want to just go for the power experience. But I can only go so fast down the road anyway. So it's pointless to make an argument that well "it's just a great power experience, and until you have experienced it you just don't know the difference." But hey, if you want to have that experience go for it. But don't berate or make us sound like we are doing something unsafe when we are well within the limits of the vehicle's capabilities.

I do real estate appraising. I've seen two people live in 2,000sf houses and in 6,000sf houses. The people in 6,000sf houses would never live in 2,000sf houses. I get it. But don't say a 2,000sf house isn't sufficient to live in for two people even though you might not like it based upon some existential experience.
No; we get it; and as always, "yous guys" get torqued when someone mentions the benefits of a larger TV for safety and control. No one here is mis-leading when talking the benefits of a larger TV for a larger TT. Over the years, we all see folks here on the Forum, try to "justify" their smaller TV's with all sorts of reasoning...just saying, the right tool for the job; drive what you want to, right? But, sharring actual experience, stopping quickly with full control, power when you need it, and payload for the things we want to bring along, is important to many of us. The new F250's (2017 and newer) offer a very smooth ride today, and no one is advocating a Peterbuilt for towing the AS...(although I know a few folks do have rigs like that!) I have seen many here towing 30 and 33' AS's and have camped/talked with several at ralleys...no need to get yourself worked up! If your happy, stay happy. Just know, the 3/4T Diesels in all makes, are pretty nice today, all around for the task at hand!
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Old 06-18-2020, 01:10 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
So I just bought a new F150 XLT (to be built). Couldn’t pass up the new truck deals and incentives right now. It closely resembles my existing pickup (Max tow haul) with a few modifications and one BIG (or small depending upon how you look at it) thing people often do not realize on the F150 XLT. I bought it with the 20 inch wheels. That increases the towing capacity to 12,500lbs from 10,500lbs. The 20 inch wheels add 250 lbs. to the rear axle ability. I was surprised, but that’s the specs.

I seriously thought about getting a diesel or 3/4 ton. I could have bought a used one for 49,000 with 20,000 miles. But in the end the ride simply wasn’t as nice as the F150. I pulled my 28’ AS for 1500 miles in June with the Propride hitch in all kind of conditions. My son (who came with me and did some of the driving) couldn’t believe how easy and stable it pulled. We had no problems. If I was pulling months in the year I would have gotten the F250 Gas 7.3L for payload reasons etc. Most of the diesel payloads aren’t very high!! And if you go to a 1 ton the ride in my opinion is miserable when it isn’t loaded. And for my use where I may pull the camper 5 or 6 times a year I could not see me driving a 3/4 ton diesel or gas around for every day use. The gas mileage on the 3/4 gas is terrible. The diesel mileage is better, but diesel is more expensive. They say you can get more for a diesel when you trade or sell. Well maybe. I looked at some of the used diesels for sale and frankly the hit in value was pretty similar. It is really nice to have all that power to pull that trailer. But we did just fine. So for my occasional use an F150 XLT with 20 inch wheels was the way to go.
We feel exactly the same and - for all of those reasons you said above - traded in our 3/4 diesel and are very happy with the 1/2 T. We feel that we have the right tool for the job ... we are well within specifications for our TV and only slightly miss the compression brake of our 2015 2500 diesel. The 1/2 T also has "down hill braking" albeit slightly different functionally.
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Old 06-18-2020, 01:23 PM   #449
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We feel exactly the same and - for all of those reasons you said above - traded in our 3/4 and are very happy with the 1/2 T.
25' works well with a 1/2T...just the larger AS's a larger TV (3/4T or 1T) offers several advantages...just not as easy to manuver around town...we all understand the differences in size...but not all understand the value of control, braking, extra payload, that comes with a larger TV...many folks don't travel far or often so I certainly understand trying to justify the decision of a smaller TV...just won't work for me with my currant AS 28'..
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Old 06-18-2020, 01:53 PM   #450
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I have said this before in numerous posts, my experiences. I have a 25 and I had a 1/2 ton before I bought the AS. It was adequate. Safe, but I realized a number of shortcomings including brakes, payload, transmission gear hunting, and small fuel tank. After 4 years I traded on a 3/4 and it was night and day. My stopping distance was significantly reduced, I could put a topper on and carry all of my stuff, I could use cruise control, and I could drive to my destination without needing to refuel. Most importantly, my stress level was reduced for the entire drive. The ride is as good as my 1/2 ton, the fuel mileage is about the same, but it is a beast to parallel park..so I don't. I would never go back to a 1/2 ton to pull a trailer.
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Old 06-18-2020, 02:10 PM   #451
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So you don't think you'll ever have to do an evasive maneuver? And what's the deal about modifications. Your telling me you never buy a truck without making modifications?
Already have, several times, smarty pants.

What kind of mods?
I bought an adequate 2006 TV, the only mods have been cosmetic.
Still going strong.

BTW...I did a rare thing today, I drove the Burb without 'Cloudsplitter".
Buying a truck to drive everyday may be your thing, it's not mine.

Bob
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Old 06-18-2020, 02:13 PM   #452
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Again many great points. In the 25-28' range either truck will tow well. One can easily make some cheap mods to a 1/2 ton to improve towing performance in this weight range while retaining most or all the inherent advantages of a smaller truck. Likewise one can easily make some cheap mods to a 3/4 to make it less harsh and clumsy and improve towing performance in this weight range and yet retain the inherent advantages of a larger truck. Then when you put them head to head towing they will be very similar. So in this towing range the final choice will be based on a combination of non-towing factors and the nuances of towing, like performance on grades or etc. When there is no obvious best choice it becomes personal preference.
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Old 06-18-2020, 02:39 PM   #453
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OK, Brian, but here is a simple one. GM 1/2 ton 26 gal tank. GM 3/4 ton 36 gal tank. That may well have changed by now and I believe one of the 1/2 ton model options had a 36, but I think it was a long bed, not sure. the 36 is a huge advantage.
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Old 06-18-2020, 02:52 PM   #454
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What's a poor boy to do?
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Old 06-18-2020, 03:09 PM   #455
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What's a poor boy to do?
Just like you said ... PERSONAL PREFERENCE ... there really is no wrong answer ...
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Old 06-18-2020, 03:18 PM   #456
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So I guess a 1/2-ton truck is enough

In my case, pulling a 22’ 2007 International CCD with a 4x4 2012 crew cab short bed V6 Tacoma and a ProPride system, you “run what you brung” as they say in Alabama.

I just need to be patient on the long upgrades and cautious on the long downgrades. We’re semi-retired and are not in a hurry.

Someday DW will buy us a shiny fancy new Tundra, but it will be rigged the same and towing the exact same Airstream.
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Old 06-18-2020, 03:55 PM   #457
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OK, Brian, but here is a simple one. GM 1/2 ton 26 gal tank. GM 3/4 ton 36 gal tank. That may well have changed by now and I believe one of the 1/2 ton model options had a 36, but I think it was a long bed, not sure. the 36 is a huge advantage.
Larry
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Old 06-19-2020, 08:36 AM   #458
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Yes, you can tow a 9000 lb trailer with a 1/2 ton truck, but you can't safely travel at highway speeds. For that you will need a larger truck. One rule of thumb is that the truck should weigh more than the trailer.

You win!! Thats the dumbest statement Ive ever heard! lol
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Old 06-19-2020, 08:48 AM   #459
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Just had an interesting ad how observation,

Most folks that talk 1/2 ton are looking at max tow low trim levels. I.e. fewer luxury options etc.

Most folks that are talking 3/4 or larger are talking close to or top end trims... I.e. all the comfy bits

Hmmmm???
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Old 06-19-2020, 09:38 AM   #460
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Just had an interesting ad how observation,

Most folks that talk 1/2 ton are looking at max tow low trim levels. I.e. fewer luxury options etc.

Most folks that are talking 3/4 or larger are talking close to or top end trims... I.e. all the comfy bits

Hmmmm???
Says the guy driving a Platinum. Mine is a Lariat Ultimate. Most of the creature comforts of the Platinum without the bling. I'm not trying to impress anyone, I just want to be able to drive down the road comfortably. Plus, all those gadgets are fun to play with and keep me from falling asleep at the wheel.
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