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Old 06-16-2020, 05:42 PM   #421
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All the those "F series" trucks are all Found On the Road Dead
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Old 06-16-2020, 05:45 PM   #422
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All the those "F series" trucks are all Found On the Road Dead
I thought it was Fix Or Repair Daily. 😎
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Old 06-16-2020, 08:03 PM   #423
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First On Race Day.

Gotta Mechanic Coming
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Old 06-16-2020, 08:18 PM   #424
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Wow! My 2019 High Country 6.2L pulling my 2020 25RB has only been getting 10.6 MPG. That is with premium gas too.
Yeouch ... we were quite happy with our 2019 Silverado 6.2 getting 23+ mpg without any load ... likely it will drop down to your level with the AS behind! WE just have not towed with it yet; we traded in a 3/4 Silverado diesel because we were tired of the high maintenance costs. We only got about 12 towing with it.
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Old 06-16-2020, 10:01 PM   #425
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So I guess a 1/2-ton truck is enough

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Originally Posted by mefly2;
Yeouch ... we were quite happy with our 2019 Silverado 6.2 getting 23+ mpg without any load ... likely it will drop down to your level with the AS behind! WE just have not towed with it yet; we traded in a 3/4 Silverado diesel because we were tired of the high maintenance costs. We only got about 12 towing with it.

Iíve got a 3/4 ton L5P Duramax. Yup in addition to the $8-$10k lift in up-front cost for the Power Plant itself the maintenance costs are definitely higher with a modern cleaner burning diesel.

Totally worth it though in my opinion! I mean, itís a lot of capital cost outlay to begin with, so if you can afford the price tags why worry about ~1% annual OpEx of purchase price for maintenance. just needs to be factored in during the overall decision making process.

Iíve had pretty much zero issues with my L5P with 36k miles (mostly towing) and the DFP / EGR / DEF tech and other emissions controls have worked flawlessly. From a soot perspective the tailpipe is as clean as the day I bought it so thatís a good thing for smog control and air quality control issues.

Iíve never understood why people delete their diesels when you can get more power and less pollution from a modern engine design. Cost I suppose.
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Old 06-17-2020, 05:03 AM   #426
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Gentlemen

IMHO I like seeing the technical Data explained and I also like the down in the dirt "doing it this way since" answers, let's agree to disagree that you can tow what you want with what ever you want, But there is OEM limits and guide lines to be aware of for Safety, Marketing, liability, for everyone on the road.

Payload SPEC is a sticking point for most TV's below a 1 ton!

Q. How come we could tow a 34ft with a 1972 Buick with 90hp motor and 3 speed auto and coil over shocks? A. we didn't care?

Axle and tire specs are key (Bob)
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Old 06-17-2020, 05:34 AM   #427
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Gentlemen

(snip...)

Q. How come we could tow a 34ft with a 1972 Buick with 90hp motor and 3 speed auto and coil over shocks? A. we didn't care?
Not sure if this question was rhetorical or genuine...

Prior to the early to mid eighties, most tow vehicles were very similar to your example. Engine and transmission cooling was inadequate, rear axle and suspension was weak, and tires were not very stiff. All of this made for a vehicle the driver could obviously tell was not stable or capable so they slowed down and continued to drive slow. Trailers were not nearly as popular and traffic was not as heavy so others didn't encounter slow downs frequently and didn't mind the occasional congestion a trailer caused.

Now things are very different, expectations are different and people expect their tow vehicle to be capable of towing in traffic at speed. Lawsuits had a major role also. So these days when you purchase a tow vehicle you generally end up with one capable of performing to the standards outlined by the OEM. Some people don't seem happy with the OEM guidelines and at the same time OEMs often dont provide clear guidance.

Sorry in advance if I misunderstood.....
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Old 06-17-2020, 07:57 AM   #428
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All the those "F series" trucks are all Found On the Road Dead
You keep thinking that Twinkie! There is a reason Ford continues to be #1 in sales by a large margine.
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Old 06-17-2020, 08:55 AM   #429
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If you really want a truck to tow with that has the power you need and the braking power needed, just spend 200k for a 377 or 389 Peterbuilt with a 550 hp Cat backed with either an 18 sp man or a 10 sp auto and a Jake brake. No need for a WDH either. Pulling even the largest AS it would not be needed. TV would out weigh the trailer as some hove said the case needs to be.

Now how many realize that when the F150 and the F250 are built, they can go down the line right behind each other. They are made in the same plants, Chevy/GMC are the same way along with RAM. I did do a little research before I decided to type this. Back when my TV was built the biggest difference was the front hubs and the rear axles. Rear Springs between 1/2t and 3/4t were the same spring with the exception of the light weight 1/2t and the HD 3/4t/ LW 1/2t used 3+1 spring and the HD 3/4t used a 5+1 spring (same as the 1t). Most used the 4+1 spring packs including the 1 ton's. The 6 lug 1/2t rear axle and the 3/4t 6 lug axles were the same axles. the 1t single rear tire and 3/4t 8 lug axles were the same also. In my search I found there is not enough parts in the parts stores yet to determine if the springs are the same in the new/newer trucks yet. But I be willing to bet the weights per spring will be the same between the 1/2t and 3/4t making the axles and hubs being the biggest difference between them. Engine wise a 5.7 is a 5.7 no matter if it is in a 1/5t or a 1t. Now I know some companies do not put a small V8 in the bigger truck but that was just an example.

I think your F-150 would be fine, and it will be a more refined ride for the passengers. But I don't follow your logic about the F150 and F250 being made on the same line make the trucks equal. As crazy as it sounds, I crawled under the trucks. I not a mechanic, but I noticed the size of the F250s' transmission case, the drive axle that was a big as my thigh, and the size of the steel box frame, the extra coolers. By no means am I saying any of this is required to tow an AS. But to me, I was already burned by spending a lot of money on a pretty-looking Raptor, only to be disappointed with its towing capacity. I didn't want an incremental upgrade. I wanted to take capacity to a whole new level. But to reiterate, I also did verify that the F150 would tow the AS just fine.
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Old 06-17-2020, 09:02 AM   #430
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Good move on the trade! Note that the Ford statement doesnít address weight distributing hitches. Thatís OK. Theyíre being conservative in their approach. Enjoy your PowerStroke! Weíre enjoying ours.
Thanks! I am loving this truck! I feel like a kid with a new toy.

As you can imagine, after being burned by the Raptor, I researched tow capacity quite diligently. Quite frustratingly the PDFs on ford's website yield different numbers, for the same engine/transmission/axle/spring/wheel! Either way, they are all twice the weight of my new 30' Globetrotter. So I am fine.

One thing I got a kick out of - the F250 lists the same exact tongue weight / max tow weight regardless of a WDH. I guess these things are so beefed up it just doesn't matter to the truck if you use a WDH or not. Of course I am using one anyone, because of the physics behind it.
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Old 06-17-2020, 09:07 AM   #431
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Congrats enjoy the new truck. Did you get a
Tremor? Keep that full off road capability .
Thanks. I did not get a Tremor, although I can't say I wasn't tempted. However once I discovered the Tremor package reduced the truck's towing capacity, I immediately had flash backs to the mistake I made when I bought the Raptor. I never took my Raptor off road, either.

So I got a limited instead. Not sure I need all the electronics it has, but the two-tone interior is sure Gucci.
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Old 06-17-2020, 09:27 AM   #432
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Lately, Ford is promoting their stability, handling and towing software as a product differentiator over the competitors so there is a bit of corporate incentive to downplay the benefits of passive sway and handling improvements. By advertising the same limits, they reinforce the (false) impression passive devices are not as effective as their software.
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Old 06-17-2020, 10:25 AM   #433
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Lately, Ford is promoting their stability, handling and towing software as a product differentiator over the competitors so there is a bit of corporate incentive to downplay the benefits of passive sway and handling improvements. By advertising the same limits, they reinforce the (false) impression passive devices are not as effective as their software.
I turned off the sway control on my F-350. First, because I don't need it because my Andersen WDH prevents sway. Second, because should there be any sway, the Ford system handles the sway by applying the brakes. No thanks.

I prefer a preemptive system to a reactive system.
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Old 06-17-2020, 10:31 AM   #434
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I hope I didn't imply I don't think active controls are not effective. They work and can prevent instability from turning into an accident. I would be hesitant about turning it off if you have it. Food for thought.
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Old 06-17-2020, 12:01 PM   #435
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I hope I didn't imply I don't think active controls are not effective. They work and can prevent instability from turning into an accident. I would be hesitant about turning it off if you have it. Food for thought.
My hitch instructions (Recurve R3) say to turn off the truck's anti-sway. Not sure why. Difficult for me to understand how the truck's system would interfere with a friction based system.
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Old 06-17-2020, 12:16 PM   #436
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Interesting, I'm curious about that, and will try to find their rationale.
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Old 06-17-2020, 12:19 PM   #437
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Thanks. I did not get a Tremor, although I can't say I wasn't tempted. However once I discovered the Tremor package reduced the truck's towing capacity, I immediately had flash backs to the mistake I made when I bought the Raptor. I never took my Raptor off road, either.



So I got a limited instead. Not sure I need all the electronics it has, but the two-tone interior is sure Gucci.


I have a platinum which I think has the same seats, youíll love the heating and especially the cooling seats. Also the active massage built in. Enjoy.
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Old 06-18-2020, 06:06 AM   #438
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So I just bought a new F150 XLT (to be built). Couldn’t pass up the new truck deals and incentives right now. It closely resembles my existing pickup (Max tow haul) with a few modifications and one BIG (or small depending upon how you look at it) thing people often do not realize on the F150 XLT. I bought it with the 20 inch wheels. That increases the towing capacity to 12,500lbs from 10,500lbs. The 20 inch wheels add 250 lbs. to the rear axle ability. I was surprised, but that’s the specs.

I seriously thought about getting a diesel or 3/4 ton. I could have bought a used one for 49,000 with 20,000 miles. But in the end the ride simply wasn’t as nice as the F150. I pulled my 28’ AS for 1500 miles in June with the Propride hitch in all kind of conditions. My son (who came with me and did some of the driving) couldn’t believe how easy and stable it pulled. We had no problems. If I was pulling months in the year I would have gotten the F250 Gas 7.3L for payload reasons etc. Most of the diesel payloads aren’t very high!! And if you go to a 1 ton the ride in my opinion is miserable when it isn’t loaded. And for my use where I may pull the camper 5 or 6 times a year I could not see me driving a 3/4 ton diesel or gas around for every day use. The gas mileage on the 3/4 gas is terrible. The diesel mileage is better, but diesel is more expensive. They say you can get more for a diesel when you trade or sell. Well maybe. I looked at some of the used diesels for sale and frankly the hit in value was pretty similar. It is really nice to have all that power to pull that trailer. But we did just fine. So for my occasional use an F150 XLT with 20 inch wheels was the way to go.
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Old 06-18-2020, 06:56 AM   #439
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So I just bought a new F150 XLT (to be built). Couldnít pass up the new truck deals and incentives right now. It closely resembles my existing pickup (Max tow haul) with a few modifications and one BIG (or small depending upon how you look at it) thing people often do not realize on the F150 XLT. I bought it with the 20 inch wheels. That increases the towing capacity to 12,500lbs from 10,500lbs. The 20 inch wheels add 250 lbs. to the rear axle ability. I was surprised, but thatís the specs.

I seriously thought about getting a diesel or 3/4 ton. I could have bought a used one for 49,000 with 20,000 miles. But in the end the ride simply wasnít as nice as the F150. I pulled my 28í AS for 1500 miles in June with the Propride hitch in all kind of conditions. My son (who came with me and did some of the driving) couldnít believe how easy and stable it pulled. We had no problems. If I was pulling months in the year I would have gotten the F250 Gas 7.3L for payload reasons etc. Most of the diesel payloads arenít very high!! And if you go to a 1 ton the ride in my opinion is miserable when it isnít loaded. And for my use where I may pull the camper 5 or 6 times a year I could not see me driving a 3/4 ton diesel or gas around for every day use. The gas mileage on the 3/4 gas is terrible. The diesel mileage is better, but diesel is more expensive. They say you can get more for a diesel when you trade or sell. Well maybe. I looked at some of the used diesels for sale and frankly the hit in value was pretty similar. It is really nice to have all that power to pull that trailer. But we did just fine. So for my occasional use an F150 XLT with 20 inch wheels was the way to go.


Iím in a similar position towing a 28í with a 1/2 ton. I agree with your perspective on moving up to 3/4 or bigger and ditto on the deisel.
What were your payload numbers on your new F-150?
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Old 06-18-2020, 08:19 AM   #440
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I’m in a similar position towing a 28’ with a 1/2 ton. I agree with your perspective on moving up to 3/4 or bigger and ditto on the deisel.
What were your payload numbers on your new F-150?
So my payload numbers on my present pickup which is nearly identical to the one I bought (the only add ons were the side steps and the bed ladder) is 1890lbs. And that is with a rear axle rating of 3800lbs. My new one will have 4050lbs. I see no reason why it won’t be around that 1900lbs area. The diesel I was thinking about buying used had a payload number of 2100lbs. And that had a big topper on the rear with a roll out tray. Those diesels are really heavy. That means going to a gas. And you can get 3000lbs of payload easy. That 7.3 L Ford engine is a beast. But it gets 12 to 15 mpg on the road. My F150 gets about 11 to 12 mpg’s towing. Made no sense. Then when I saw that the diesel only got about .4 mpg’s better pulling the 9,000lb trailer that really made no sense.

What I’m going to do with the new one is see how it tows. I have the heavier duty 20” tires. However with the better towing tires I might just put on Bilstein heavy duty shocks; or I may add on the roadmaster suspension system which I have on my present pickup. That really made the ride better. Eliminates axle wrap and I can really level the truck out well.

This is the article I found that really tipped the scales for me to stay with a 1/2 ton; https://rvlifemag.com/towing-half-to...e-quarter-ton/

Look at the picture of the maneuver while driving. The F250 really doesn’t look that stable.

The article is by Andy Thompson from CanAM an Airstream dealer that sets up many many vehicles for towing.

Again I just don’t see the need for a 3/4 ton for my lifestyle; and I definitely don’t see the need for an expensive 3/4 ton diesel. Makes no monetary or practical sense.

That 1/2 ton Ecoboost is just such a good engine. Coupled with the Propride hitch I have a very stable set up with plenty of power to get where I need to go. And when I’m not towing I have a comfortable pickup to drive (which is about 80% of the time!).
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