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Old 04-23-2020, 07:12 AM   #341
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Plusses & Minuses

Leaving out WD on a rig where it is deemed of little value…
A longer distance behind the trailer can be a minus revolving around TV structure. If the design of the TV won’t fully accept the applied forces, moving closer will help achieve exactly what a PPP accomplishes.

With PPP WD…
The longer wheelbarrow handles apply the purchase needed to transfer the necessary weight, with lighter bars. While at the same time moving the pivot point forward just as your ’short shank’ does.

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Old 04-23-2020, 04:11 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by GettinAway View Post
I thought I’d found the perfect TV. We could all agree, and go buy identical trucks. But, on closer inspection, the COG may be a bit to high. Agh! So close! Look at that suspension, has to be one ton, and the rear overhang is so short! I guess the wheelbase is too short also. Well crap! Such high hopes now down the drain. I had hoped we could transition this into a hitch thread instead of a TV thread. We were so close!
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Old 05-04-2020, 08:18 AM   #343
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Blue ox / 28' / F-150

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalashnikov View Post
Quite the rant given that the poster immediately above showed an F150 set up to tow within spec.
Bizare rant. You need all the measuring tapes for the F-250 too. If your measuring stick is "Is it a 3/4 ton or larger?" you may be dissapointed when it doesn't perform well.

The vartiety in truck performance under each label 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton is great. Some F-XXX can tow al lot more than others.

Here is some of that measuring tape magic.
I bought my trailer with 1000# bars. Previous owner didn't understand WD.
I put 1500# bars and transfered more weight to the trailer and the front axle.

My F-150 3.0L is a better tow vehicle than any F250!
Yeah, I know. But what I mean is that my rig is solid as it gets. My wife is disabled and can't scale an F-250 to get in. The F-250 ride is hard; She wouldn't like it.
The F-150 lots of torque and pulling power (rated for nearly double the trailer weight).
Axle ratings are in spec (GAWRs 3900 front/3800 rear) The front axle is a little heavier that the rear.

Notice the tongue weight of a 28' is more than the 30". My payload is 1398#. That's a small number. But with WD, Axles are good to go. FYI: My F-150 has Roadmaster Active suspension and I would not go without it. The F-150 does have soft springs and the Roadmaster helps.
I don't have enough axle left to take my 650# motorcycle (the down side)
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Old 05-05-2020, 09:09 AM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFH View Post
Bizare rant. You need all the measuring tapes for the F-250 too. If your measuring stick is "Is it a 3/4 ton or larger?" you may be dissapointed when it doesn't perform well.

The vartiety in truck performance under each label 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton is great. Some F-XXX can tow al lot more than others.

Here is some of that measuring tape magic.
I bought my trailer with 1000# bars. Previous owner didn't understand WD.
I put 1500# bars and transfered more weight to the trailer and the front axle.

My F-150 3.0L is a better tow vehicle than any F250!
Yeah, I know. But what I mean is that my rig is solid as it gets. My wife is disabled and can't scale an F-250 to get in. The F-250 ride is hard; She wouldn't like it.
The F-150 lots of torque and pulling power (rated for nearly double the trailer weight).
Axle ratings are in spec (GAWRs 3900 front/3800 rear) The front axle is a little heavier that the rear.

Notice the tongue weight of a 28' is more than the 30". My payload is 1398#. That's a small number. But with WD, Axles are good to go. FYI: My F-150 has Roadmaster Active suspension and I would not go without it. The F-150 does have soft springs and the Roadmaster helps.
I don't have enough axle left to take my 650# motorcycle (the down side)
Being under max weight "actual" spec payload or GVWR weights is desired for most folks who want to be safe...but lots of "other" folks seem to be "just fine" , with being under weight or over weight by a "little bit" with their TV specs...I prefer to have a bit more power, load capacity, braking, and overall control with our 28'; which is why we have a 3/4T...works for us.
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Old 05-05-2020, 10:22 AM   #345
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https://www.airforums.com/photos/sho...ageuser=155045

We pulled our 22' Sport with our Ridgeline AWD. It was very smooth and often even forgot the trailer was there.

I wouldn't consider pulling anything larger than single axle Airstream with this truck. Honda caps off the towing at 5,000 lbs and max 600 lbs tongue.
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Old 06-07-2020, 07:52 PM   #346
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Gypsydad,
Thanks for your post. In your post you make reference to “how many times in the forums a new owner of a 1/2 ton truck misses the truck’s payload rating”. If you don’t mind, would you mind sending me a link that describes that? I am a wannabe Airstream owner with a 30’ 30RB Floorplan. Trailer weighs under 7,000. Dealer says my 1/2 truck (Ford Raptor) would do fine with it since the trailer is under 7000 lbs. I came across your post and now I am extremely interested to learn more. Thanks!
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Old 06-07-2020, 08:03 PM   #347
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Your Raptor won’t have the payload. There’s a sticker on the door looks like this

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Read the line above the tire pressure that indicates passengers and cargo. That’s payload. Tongue weight is payload. Raptor is notoriously light on towing capability. But it’s a great off road truck. Suspension trade off.
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Old 06-08-2020, 03:55 AM   #348
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Agree. Payload is usually the limiting factor, not published towing capacity. In the half ton truck world my experience has been that the Silverado 1500 with max tow package is maybe the highest. My door sticker is GVWR of 7600 lbs. with curb eta. Of 5300 which leaves 2300 for tongue weight, passengers, cargo. Easily tows a FC30 with two passengers and lots of cargo.
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Old 06-08-2020, 04:38 AM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonDNC View Post
Your Raptor won’t have the payload. There’s a sticker on the door looks like this

Attachment 369712

Read the line above the tire pressure that indicates passengers and cargo. That’s payload. Tongue weight is payload. Raptor is notoriously light on towing capability. But it’s a great off road truck. Suspension trade off.
3300 lb seems pretty decent, unless I’m missing something. My 3/4 ton has less than that.
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Old 06-08-2020, 04:52 AM   #350
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Ditto, most people here report that by the time they have accumulated all the gear they like, and accounting for occasionally needing to tow with water in the tanks, you should figure the trailer will be within 500 lb of max and a tongue north of 900 even carefully packing. If your payload is as low as published specs indicate, you'll be lucky not to exceed it with the trailer, just one passenger, and a full tank of gas. So all your gear will have to be packed into the trailer in which case it will instead be at max weight not the 7000 the salesman wants you to believe (after including reserve for water).

But it is worse, depending on the year, your Raptor has a towing limit as low as 6000 lbs. You can expect the hitch to be light and too flexible, the suspension to be under damped and the tire load range too low so you'll have to make some significant upgrades. If you don't ride quality and handling will be poor, and there will be some safety risks. As john indicated, the Raptor is cool but it is not marketed for towing.
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Old 06-08-2020, 09:49 AM   #351
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Quote:
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This ought to be a good thread ‘cause I know that some think that them’s fighting words!
Ive been through an awful lot of popcorn as this thread has grown to 350+ comments. Congratulations all!
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Old 06-08-2020, 03:32 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countryboy59 View Post
3300 lb seems pretty decent, unless I’m missing something. My 3/4 ton has less than that.


Sorry should have said that’s from my F350 diesel
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:06 AM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV4Mark View Post
Gypsydad,
Thanks for your post. In your post you make reference to “how many times in the forums a new owner of a 1/2 ton truck misses the truck’s payload rating”. If you don’t mind, would you mind sending me a link that describes that? I am a wannabe Airstream owner with a 30’ 30RB Floorplan. Trailer weighs under 7,000. Dealer says my 1/2 truck (Ford Raptor) would do fine with it since the trailer is under 7000 lbs. I came across your post and now I am extremely interested to learn more. Thanks!
I am one of those who "missed" the actual payload rating for my truck when I purchased my first new 2012 F150 EB Platinum 4x4. I had been pulling a 25' FC around for 3 years, with a 45lb generator, a big dog, firewood, and camp gear in back, along with a 95lb canoe on top, before I started reading about payload blogs hear on the Forum...my combined payload weight with 900lbs tongue weight from our 25', out was 1,520lbs with the canoe! Payload door sticker on that Platinum was 1,039lbs! Loved that F150, and it handled the 25''s I owned very well, but I had to stop carrying a lot of stuff to get the payload rating down. Now, I have the F250 and 2200lb payload rating with our 28' and all is well.

You will see folks who disregard, don't care, or who choose to modify their rigs to increase the capability for towing...Andy at CANAM gets a lot of business I am sure...I am sure the "experts" know what they are doing, but I prefer the larger TV rated for the job.
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:08 AM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
I am one of those who "missed" the actual payload rating for my truck when I purchased my first new 2012 F150 EB Platinum 4x4. I had been pulling a 25' FC around for 3 years, with a 45lb generator, a big dog, firewood, and camp gear in back, along with a 95lb canoe on top, before I started reading about payload blogs hear on the Forum...my combined payload weight with 900lbs tongue weight from our 25', out was 1,520lbs with the canoe! Payload door sticker on that Platinum was 1,039lbs! Loved that F150, and it handled the 25''s I owned very well, but I had to stop carrying a lot of stuff to get the payload rating down. Now, I have the F250 and 2200lb payload rating with our 28' and all is well.

You will see folks who disregard, don't care, or who choose to modify their rigs to increase the capability for towing...Andy at CANAM gets a lot of business I am sure...I am sure the "experts" know what they are doing, but I prefer the larger TV rated for the job.
Oh, and I agree with others...the Rapture is "cool" for sure, but not a good TV!
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:30 AM   #355
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The Raptor is designed for off-road capability, with high clearance, soft springs and wide, compliant tires. Good shock absorber control may help a lot, but this setup is less than ideal for towing.
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:49 AM   #356
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I would use the truck door sticker (payload rating) and get what you like best. Some streamers insist on a big truck while others are fine with a half-ton. The limiting factor Airstream-wise is not the tow (pull) rating- most are up to 12000# or so for that. It is in the payload (cargo or top weight) on the truck and that depends on the math. Even sales people ignore this critical number and many have been given false information.

I was at a Ford dealer shopping for an F150 and the sales person told me the one I was looking at would tow 12,000 pounds. I said yes but what about the payload? He replied, they are the same. I began explaining what I knew and he said that I was totally incorrect. He got this guy from truck fleet sales who had been there for many years and he said the sales guy was correct. I said no, that was like saying tongue weight is the same as trailer weight. The older gentleman went inside the sales guy said I did not understand about trailers- I left. I contacted Ford and spoke to them about the two weights. They patched me through to someone who said that was correct and provided me with yet another type of weight figure based on accessory weight on each truck subtracting from the payload but not the tow rating, sent me a copy of a truck spec sheet for example- which explained why each F150 has a different payload rating.

If you use the tow rating and payload (cargo) capacity, you will know that your vehicle and its systems are designed for the load. Physics also plays a part. Heavier bigger trucks will be less impacted by towing. Remember, payload is anything in the bed+people+tongue weight before WD. Know too that half-tons have changed quite a bit over the past few years They are more powerful, handle more weight and drive differently than one 7-10 years ago. You have to be comfortable with the truck. If I had a family of four or so, I would have to have a larger truck to have enough payload. Another key factor I have shared MANY times is the tow experience. Some gas engine truck brands are designed to provide torque at higher RPMs, that engine roar and shift can get to you towing. Look at the engine specs and compare peak torque to RPM. The lower the RPM the better for noise. This is a primary reason people like diesels but, there are other options too like ecoboosts.
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Old 06-10-2020, 08:58 PM   #357
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Thank you all for your thoughtful responses to my question. While I completely understand the concept and the math, I’m still at a loss. Please let me explain: Supposedly my Raptor has a maximum tongue weight of 500 lbs. However this increases to 1,200 lbs if using a weight distribution hitch. So with that in mind, I’m assuming that by using a weight distribution hitch, the trailer tongue weight is not necessarily a 1-to-1 subtraction from the cargo carrying capacity.

For example that’s a 1:2.4 ratio. (I figured out the ratio of 1:2.4 because supposedly the truck’s tongue dead weight max is 500, but max tongue weight with a weight distribution hitch is 1,200 lbs)

So wouldn’t that mean if the tongue dead weight of the Airstream is 1,000 lbs, that because I am using a weight distribution hitch, I do not need to subtract the full 1,000 lbs from the cargo carrying capacity? Wouldn’t that mean I subtract only 416 lbs? (1,000 Airstream tongue dead weight, divided by 2.4)?
Thanks!
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Old 06-10-2020, 09:26 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by RV4Mark View Post
Thank you all for your thoughtful responses to my question. While I completely understand the concept and the math, I’m still at a loss. Please let me explain: Supposedly my Raptor has a maximum tongue weight of 500 lbs. However this increases to 1,200 lbs if using a weight distribution hitch. So with that in mind, I’m assuming that by using a weight distribution hitch, the trailer tongue weight is not necessarily a 1-to-1 subtraction from the cargo carrying capacity.

For example that’s a 1:2.4 ratio. (I figured out the ratio of 1:2.4 because supposedly the truck’s tongue dead weight max is 500, but max tongue weight with a weight distribution hitch is 1,200 lbs)

So wouldn’t that mean if the tongue dead weight of the Airstream is 1,000 lbs, that because I am using a weight distribution hitch, I do not need to subtract the full 1,000 lbs from the cargo carrying capacity? Wouldn’t that mean I subtract only 416 lbs? (1,000 Airstream tongue dead weight, divided by 2.4)?
Thanks!
It doesn't work like that.

Please refer to page 38 of the Towing Guide. I used the 2019 version, which can be found here: https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...owingGuide.pdf

The Raptor has only a 500 lb capacity on the receiver without a WDH and 800 lbs with a WDH.

Tongue weight doesn't disappear just because you're using a WDH. Some is shifted to the front axle of the truck and some is shifted to the axles of the trailer. I don't believe you can justify your trailer on your truck unless you have taken it to a CAT Scale. You'll need three measurements.
1. Truck only - outfitted as if you're headed camping.
2. Truck with trailer attached - no WDH configured.
3. Truck with trailer attached - with WDH configured.

We would have to see all three measurements to know what's going on, but the very last one is critical. You cannot exceed the rear axle weight rating as well as the GVWR.
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Old 06-10-2020, 10:03 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by vintageracer View Post
It's that STOPPING part that can be a REAL PROBLEM

I would suspect a lot of you will git the schidt scared out you when you find out how LIMITED your tow vehicle/trailer combination BRAKING ABILITY really is!
When my wife and I decided to full time in 2016, we bought a FC 25RB and towed it with my 2006 Cayenne S. Drove all over the western US, down the Baja to Cabo and then to Alaska.

On our way to Homer AK in the Kenai peninsular, I was looking at fisherman on my left and didn’t see the truck that was stopped in front of me. At the last second, I hit the brakes as hard as I could. I mean lifting my a$$ out of the seat. The ABS never activated because of the weight and no skidding. Totally stable stop. I have a 7 sec video from my dash cam if anyone is interested.

For me, I’ll always tow with a capable SUV. YMMV.
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:32 AM   #360
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Wow! My 2019 High Country 6.2L pulling my 2020 25RB has only been getting 10.6 MPG. That is with premium gas too.
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