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Old 06-03-2020, 10:04 AM   #21
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2005 25' Safari
Albuquerque , New Mexico
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I have over 20,000 miles towing my 2005 Safari 25 with my 2015 F150 EcoBoost in the last 3 seasons. Also use the Blue Ox. Typically two adults and my grandson. No complaints.

If I wanted to bring along a generator, boat, two more passengers and a Weber Genesis II E-435 4-Burner Propane Gas Grill in addition to the bikes, inflatable kayak, ladder, and all the other gear that I'm already packing, I'd get an F250. If I wanted to add my 1983 BMW 1000 motorcycle too, I'd get a F350.
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:05 AM   #22
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I tow a 2018 FC25FB, which is known as a tongue heavy trailer, at around 1,000 lbs, with a 2019 F150 with 1,850 payload and the Blue Ox Hitch. We had porpoising like you describe until I upgraded the shocks to Bilstein and installed Roadmaster helper springs. Those two have pretty much eliminated porpoising and excessive squat. It tows great now.

You will need to be very careful about what you carry in your truck with only 1,500 pounds of payload. Your trailer, loaded for travel, likely has a tongue weight of around 1,000 pounds.
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:10 AM   #23
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As usual lots of opinions ... We tow an Internation 25 CCD with a F-150HD FX4 3.5eco with Tow Package. 159 inch wheelbase 3.73 rearend. 1600# cargo. We also use a Resse Dual Cam System. Have not experienced any of the issues you state. We also drive at 65MPH (100KM). While BIGGER trucks are nice I am not sure the truck is your problem based on the info you provided here. However, the F-150 specs - wheelbase etc also loading (trailer & truck) correctly, type of weight distrbution/swaycontrol system etc: can make a difference.

We went through a systematic process in marrying our truck and AS - you can read my article here - https://www.marriedwithairstream.com...-your-trailer/
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:12 AM   #24
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You indicate that your tongue weight is 800lbs. How did you derive this weight? I think you will find that if you actually weigh your tongue, you will find it will be several hundred pounds heavier than that. Manufacturer posted weights are seldom accurate.

Loaded for camping my 27FB Int tongue weighs 1200lbs +/-. With a 1500lb payload on your F150 you will be maxed out, and perhaps beyond, your payload capacity towing a 27GT.
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:14 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhxTrotter View Post
F150 - trailer attached (dry tanks) but not loaded with people or gear
IMO, your hitch was not adjusted properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjsigmund View Post
I could feel eighteen wheelers come up behind me from the opposite lane. The trailer/truck felt as if it were pulled into the other lane slightly.
I have a Tundra, but I also feel a slight tug as semi's pass. A couple inches. I attribute it to the sway control making the connection between truck and trailer stiff. As a semi reaches the trailer, the air off the tractor pushes the trailer to the right, making the truck move left.
Quote:
The truck/trailer porpoised on cruddy concrete highway at 65MPH.I pulled over.
I never feel popoising unless the road is humpy. Like a bridge with precast sections that don't flatten out.

BTW, I tow at 63 mph. It's in my comfort zone. I often praise how well the Airstream tows.
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:19 AM   #26
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I was where you are, but with at 25FB and a 2013 F-150. My experience with the Ford was like yours--plenty of power but a little hinky on the highway even with a Blue Ox and 1500 lb. bars. I've posted about my experience several times with certified scale numbers, etc.

Here is a thread I contributed to:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f51...ml#post1884888

If you don't want to tow overloaded the F-150 is probably not going to work for you.

Good Luck.
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:23 AM   #27
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I have towed a 6300# Safari 25 with an older F-150 with a tow package but only a 4 speed transmission without Tow/Haul. I bought it used with 90-something thousand miles on it. It was mostly adequate, but fuel mileage was horrible at 62 mph. I moved up to a Ram 2500 diesel after an episode climbing up to the Blue Ridge Parkway on US 441 east of Boone, NC. The engine lost power and RPMs with no other symptoms. I had a tuner and all temperatures were acceptable albeit the transmission temperature was high. I took the truck in for a service to be sure the transmission was OK and the tech told me the transmission had never been serviced in over 100,000 miles. He thought that was the problem - old fluid, clogged filter, etc. I decided I didn't want to worry about what was around the next corner and bought the Ram.

I continued towing the 25 with the Ram until I bought a 9100# Classic 30 Slideout. Even with the 25 I'd not go back to a F150, at least not one without adequate towing and payload capacity like the EcoBoost has.

With regard to hitches, I towed both trailers with an Equalizer. The thing that is most dangerous about passing trucks is when the bow wave hits the back of the trailer it tries to push it to the right. This tries to push the front of the trailer to the left and the front of the truck to the right. The driver corrects by steering left just as the bow wave effect goes away and accentuates the left steer into the truck's lane. I never experienced that with either of my setups. What I did feel was a mild tendency to steer left when a truck's bow wave hits the junction of the truck and trailer. I feel the same thing when driving the truck not towing.

I upgraded to a used ProPride because the stinger is lighter than the Equalizer head and is easier to manage. I feel the same left steer sensation with it that I did with the Equalizer.

Your setup has, as you calculated, limited capability to carry anything much in the truck other than the tongue weight and a couple of passengers. If you have enough margin in the trailer to carry what you need, and you don't do mountains, you may be fine. Otherwise, and really in any case, I think you would find the towing experience with a more capable vehicle more enjoyable.

Al
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:24 AM   #28
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Sounds like you have a payload problem, I had the the same issues with a 1/2 ton and moved up to a 3/4 ton which solved all of my issues. It may be possible to get a Heavy Duty Ford 150 that has more payload but 3/4 ton would be a sure thing. Your AS plus the BluOx probably has a tongue wt close to 1,100 so after you add fuel and supplies in the bed of the 150 your tuck is over weight. You can play all kinds of games with brands various hitches and set ups but you are still pushing the envelope of problems.

other than that I hope you have a good summer of traveling and camping.
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:27 AM   #29
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Tongue Weight

Your tongue weight is a lot more than that, the 800 pounds listed in the Airstream documents is without batteries, propane, camping gear, water etc.

My 2014 27FB tongue weight loaded for travel is 1060 plus the weight if the hitch @100 pounds = 1160.

If you have to tow from your campsite (that does not have a dump station) with water in your grey and black tanks that tongue weight goes up to as high as 1200 plus the weight of the hitch.

Yes, the weight distribution hitch does transfer some weight to the front axle of the tow vehicle but it does not lessen the weight on the hitch.

The payload on my 2017 F250 is 3203.
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:28 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbashin View Post
It's simple, you need a bigger truck.
Not simple. For those who use the truck as a daily driver, I don't want a stepladder to get in and out, and I want to park in a normal spot at the grocery.
I use the truck 95% for day use and 5% towing.
If a 250 is good, won't a 350 be better?
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:31 AM   #31
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Saved by the Hitch Fairy....

Having a 'Hitch Fairy' with a magic wand makes it all good.

I have had no complaints with the Equalizer Hitch with 1,000# bars towing the 25 foot International rear bed with both the Tundra or F350. The current 27 foot International front bed tows perfectly behind the F350.

The 25 foot International and the 5.7L Tundra were a bit more problematic, thus the F350.

I do not have a Hitch Fairy to make boo boo's go away when things go wrong.

My Magic Wand... traded in the 2014 4x4 5.7L Double Cab Tundra in for a 2016 F350 Diesel 4x4, 3.55 rear end. Both are fine vehicles.

One vehicle was not appropriate for the 27 foot Airstream.

If you parachute from an Airplane regularly. Who do you trust to properly pack the parachute? The Hitch Fairy?
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:42 AM   #32
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While I won't even begin to enter into the power vs weight discussion (we are firmly in the never can have too much power camp); your first con-"I could feel eighteen wheelers come up behind me from the opposite lane. The trailer/truck felt as if it were pulled into the other lane slightly."
That is a natural physical thing called the "Bernoulli Effect". Years of driving a Volkswagen taught me just how bad that can feel. The air current around the vehicles DOES pull the lighter vehicle toward the heavier one as you drive side by side. You can demostrate this with two pieces of paper...hold them about an inch apart and blow between them. Note they move together, not apart as you would expect. No hitch or weight distribution will erase the effect only a bigger, heavier vehicle that can hold its own against the laws of physics!
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:22 AM   #33
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The "Bernouli Effect" is the proper name for the physics of why you felt what you feel when a truck overtakes and passes you.

The "washboarding" or "porpoising" is also pretty unavoidable with just about any vehicle, and can be made worse when towing if the weight placement is a little off and weight distribution hitch isn't set up correctly. It's mostly a factor of road design and maintenance, construction practices, road materials, and age of the road. The vehicle aspect can make it worse, but it affects all vehicles at some point.

There are MANY threads about using CAT scales to help you adjust the weight distribution hitch to minimize porpoising due to roads which have become washboards.

And, as mentioned, speed also plays a part in this. But, sometimes the roads are just plain bad and even with a good distribution of load in the tow vehicle and travel trailer and a well-adjusted weight distribution hitch porpoising can't be avoided.

Lastly, you didn't mention whether or not you use the F-150 Eco-Boost as a daily driver. If so, you need something that's comfortable for when you're not towing as well as when you are.

Can you safely pull your travel trailer with the F-150 Eco-Boost? Sure. Many people pull similar--or even longer--trailers with that vehicle (not all with the same information on the yellow door sticker and options).

As has also been said--your sense of safety and comfort are what's really going to make the decision of whether or not you should or do change tow vehicles. (And, maybe some of the incentives on new vehicles now will help with that, too....)

Another thing to consider is where you think you'll be doing most of your traveling/towing. For us (the DW and I), it's out West and through the Rockies and the Sierras and other mountain ranges and passes. On Interstates (which we try to avoid when time is not an issue), and on US highways (some of which are in EXCELLENT condition and have four lanes, and some of which aren't in such good condition and have only two lanes with very few passing lanes (uphill or downhill).

I originally chose a gas-engine truck a friend was using to pull virtually the same trailer as we were pulling. An excellent truck, from a highly respected manufacturer, with good power and really comfortable for us and our dogs. We really loved that truck. But, for where we want to tow and travel, it just didn't have the braking capability I wanted (and felt I needed) and sometimes the automatic transmission just would NOT stay in the gear I put it in and was constantly shifting down and up and down and up. On flat or even hilly terrain, it was fine--a great ride and a comfortable ride. But, on mountain passes it made me uncomfortable and I was driving with white knuckles.

Went with a 1-ton diesel (a little overkill--but I got a great deal, and the only difference between it and the 3/4-ton is one leaf spring, which I have yet to remove, but probably will as we begin to use our trailer more). Rides a little rougher when not towing (it would be rough to use as a daily drive!--especially with that extra leaf). But, the difference in my sense of safety and comfort is night and day. I now have exhaust braking and massive brakes on the truck, as well as more power and acceleration than I ever thought possible with a diesel truck.

To sum up, it's really about your sense of safety and comfort when towing, and if you use the truck as a daily drive, what you are comfortable when not towing. The "sucking" feeling you experienced when being passed by a big rig is going to happen to some extent with just about any rig (though it seems at least one hitch seems to mitigate that pretty well). The porpoising due to washboardy roads--that's pretty unavoidable, too, but speed and weight placement and weight distribution hitch set-up can often minimize that if you're willing to slow down (usually), or speed up (which sometimes works in my experience, too).

Is YOUR vehicle right for YOUR trailer and YOUR towing experience and ability? Only YOU know that. All the calc's you can make can sometimes drive you crazy (but, as the title says, you already know that!).

I suggest you take a few more trips. Maybe get out and drive on the weekends around your region of the country and get some more experience behind the wheel of YOUR rig, and decide what you can and can't live with. One Ford dealer I spoke with when I was deciding on upgrading offered to let me take an F-150 Eco-Boost out for a weekend to two my trailer! Maybe dealers in your area will do the same with other sizes or makes/sizes of trucks, and you can get some behind-the-steering-wheel experience with them (know that can involve some pretty large changes in the weight distribution hitch set-up, and then returning it to original when you return the truck!). Something to consider, anyway.

Best of luck! You don't know it (or maybe you do) but this is a HUGE topic with MANY opinionated people who are quick to make recommendations. But, it's YOUR sense of safety and comfort. (My DW knew I was white-knuckling with the first truck--and she was very supportive of my decision to change vehicles. She was nervous because I was nervous.)

One more thing--I used to own Harleys (several over a few decades). And, I have come to realize that Airstream owners are like new Harley owners in very many respects. The biggest similarity: They all want to do the right thing, and follow all the recommendations and have their genuine Motor Factory accessories and upgrades all done by "the factory" or by factory-authorized dealers. But, we all soon learn--it's really just a (glorified) vehicle. An expensive one, and one that can hold its resale value very well. And, there are lots of better RV service options than factory-authorized ones. But, it's just a vehicle in the end.

Stay safe--and healthy!
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:30 AM   #34
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Always a good topic. I would simply say that it is best to stick to the FACTS. What are they?

Your 1,500 lb is not likely the actual payload capacity. You should have a sticker on either the B-Pillar or in the glove box that tells you the exact payload. I have never seen one rounded off exactly - I've been in the auto industry for over 20 years.

Payload capacity has little to do with the amount of weight that you can put on your hitch. You are generally correct in your approach. The tongue weight of your trailer is part of the payload math. HOWEVER, the payload is assumed to be evenly distributed across the axels. Since the hitch is further out from the axel, the amount that you can put on your hitch is not 1,500 lbs (assuming no other cargo). Depending on many factors such as springs, wheelbase, hitch type, the amount of weight that you can safely put on your hitch will be around 60% of your payload capacity. I caution you that this is a rough number. For example, my GMC 2500 has a payload capacity of 3,022 lbs, but a conventional trailer hitch capacity of only 1,850 lbs. A portion of this has to also do with the axel weight rating. In the end, it is all about leverage and weight distribution.

I really cannot comment about your hitch unless you were to post the exact model number.

In my experience, most trailer dealers are not well versed in proper hitch set-up and weight distribution. It really sounds like your set-up is not correct.

You must gather the facts before you make any further decisions: make sure that they are actual numbers and not published averages or max numbers.

Trailer tongue weight
Trailer axel weight (be sure it is not over loaded)
Trailer gross weight (as you would normally travel)
For best handling on a long trailer like yours your tongue weight should be around 12%-15% of the trailer gross weight.

For your truck:
Gross Axel weight ratings (frt and rr)
Actual payload capacity
Hitch capacity (conventional and 5th wheel or gooseneck) On a 1/2 ton truck you may not have this information. If not, then you will have to pay close attention to how the load is distributed across all axels (trailer and truck)

Hitch set up - with a weight distribution hitch it is important to first set your trailer level, then measure the hitch ball height. Be sure that the hitch ball on you truck is 0-1" higher depending on how much your truck sags when loaded. To insure that your getting the proper amount of weight distribution, before putting the trailer onto your truck, measure the wheel well opening height to the ground of both the front and rear wheel of the truck. Load the trailer on the hitch and measure again. Engage your weight distribution set-up. Measure the wheel openings again. The front is critical - it should have come back at least halfway from the second measurement. This is a decent alternative to not having scales readily handy. The most accurate way is to use scales. The goal is to have a 1/3 of the weight on each axel (if your trailer has 2, then add them together). The other goal is to get the weight on your front wheel as close to the original weight as you can.

This is not an easy topic, but it is critical to get right. Personally I think a 1/2 ton is a bit light for such a big trailer. That said, Ford does build their 1/2 ton trucks with options for higher payloads and towing ability. I'd be glad to help you if you can pull together all the facts.
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:39 AM   #35
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You have done exactly what I did in 2009. An F150 has a lot of power but it doesn't have enough weight to manage the potential sway of the 8500# trailer. Even with the well worth Hensley hitch I did eliminate the sway but I did have the trailer push me around a little. Being a novice I wasn't willing to put my $150K rig in jeopardy. I purchased an F250 Diesel Platinum and my handling issues were solved. Overkill by many but remember I am a novice and need all the help I can get. The 10,000 lbs of the truck now provides a different issue: I occasionally get startled when I catch an 18 wheeler right outside the driver's window. No sway, no suction to the rig, no push to the shoulder, just straight driving like nothing was happening. Just the way I like it. I have never felt safer. For thous that are more skilled at driving a light rig that gets blown all over the round enjoy your fun, but that is not for me. Bigger is better. Power have never been an issue, it is the weight and stability that counts for me. Unfortunately, the gross vehicle weight is doesn't have the max payload that I need. the only place that is identified is on the door column. All of the Ford specs are what it could be if you order no options. BTW my tongue weight for my fully loaded ready to travel 27 ft Classic front bedroom is 1250# The catalog talks about 80-900. What a mis-conception. If I had to do it again I think I would seriously consider an F350. 1500 more payload same ride same MPG and only $800-900 more money. I am now always overloaded by a few hundred pounds: 1250# tongue weight, 400# people, 50# stuff in back seat, toolbox in back 150#, extra large cap 300# = 2150#. Max payload is 1956#. No room for generator, camping gear, recreational equip etc but we don't let that stop us. I feel 10X more safe than with the F150 pulling the same trailer. Happy streaming.
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Old 06-03-2020, 12:25 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol Bob View Post
In order to add to this discussion and my ultimate solution...
I've towed a 16ft Bambi with a Olds 98. A 27ft Excella with a Tahoe & Excursion. A 30ft Classic with the Excursion then 2 - 34 ft slideouts with the Excursion. Other than a short miserable experience with a Hensley hitch (most folks either love em or hate em) I have always used the Reese 26002 Dual Cam Sway Control system. Easy to hook & unhook. Simple to install. I won't change.
But in all cases, when semi-tractor trailer rigs blew by me they pushed/moved me annoyingly. That was until 3 years ago when I went to a F-350 8ft bed SRW diesel that stopped 99% of the movement. The length and weight of this beast totally negates the effects of those road hogs.
Hitches by themselves can make a anti-sway difference I'll agree. But nothing beats the length/mass equation of longer + heavier = no sway!
I too love my Reese Dual Cam Sway control and weight distribution system, vs. the others I used over the years. When I used to tow with a 1/2 ton truck I would feel the semi's creeping up on me. Now with a F-250 and proper hitch setup, I feel very comfortable, no porpoising ever, etc.(I travel from MD to the Four Corners region or NW USA every year). I won't ever go back to towing a 30' with a 1/2 ton truck, plenty of room to fill up the bed with all kinds of generators, misc. camping and hiking gear, recovery gear for when I go four wheeling, etc. Some are perfectly happy with a 1/2 ton truck.
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Old 06-03-2020, 12:48 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol Bob View Post
In order to add to this discussion and my ultimate solution...
I've towed a 16ft Bambi with a Olds 98. A 27ft Excella with a Tahoe & Excursion. A 30ft Classic with the Excursion then 2 - 34 ft slideouts with the Excursion. Other than a short miserable experience with a Hensley hitch (most folks either love em or hate em) I have always used the Reese 26002 Dual Cam Sway Control system. Easy to hook & unhook. Simple to install. I won't change.
But in all cases, when semi-tractor trailer rigs blew by me they pushed/moved me annoyingly. That was until 3 years ago when I went to a F-350 8ft bed SRW diesel that stopped 99% of the movement. The length and weight of this beast totally negates the effects of those road hogs.
Hitches by themselves can make a anti-sway difference I'll agree. But nothing beats the length/mass equation of longer + heavier = no sway!
Ditto, Ditto.
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Old 06-03-2020, 12:48 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjsigmund View Post
Last year we purchased a Ford F150 Platinum 3.5 EcoBoost as we thought we would be buying a 22 AS. As it turns out we bought bigger than expected as we are now the proud owners of a 27FB Globetrotter.

We drove it about 700 miles home this weekend and we used a Blue Ox Pro hitch. As I have little experience driving trailers, I don't know what normal is.

A few things that I noticed:

Pros:
Plenty of power

Smooth ride unless the road was concrete with ridges

Cons:
I could feel eighteen wheelers come up behind me from the opposite lane. The trailer/truck felt as if it were pulled into the other lane slightly.

The truck/trailer porpoised on cruddy concrete highway at 65MPH.I pulled over.

A few questions:

*Are the cons normal?

*Payload question - My sticker states that my payload is 1500. If my tongue weight is 800lbs, my cover is 100lbs and 2 passengers weighing 350lbs. Does that mean I can only bring 250lbs of other stuff?

*Do I have the right truck?

Thanks
CJS
....you have a light weight tow vehicle....a 3/4 ton is way better
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Old 06-03-2020, 01:22 PM   #39
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Insufficient Payload for 27' AS

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjsigmund View Post
Last year we purchased a Ford F150 Platinum 3.5 EcoBoost as we thought we would be buying a 22 AS. As it turns out we bought bigger than expected as we are now the proud owners of a 27FB Globetrotter.

We drove it about 700 miles home this weekend and we used a Blue Ox Pro hitch. As I have little experience driving trailers, I don't know what normal is.

A few things that I noticed:

Pros:
Plenty of power

Smooth ride unless the road was concrete with ridges

Cons:
I could feel eighteen wheelers come up behind me from the opposite lane. The trailer/truck felt as if it were pulled into the other lane slightly.

The truck/trailer porpoised on cruddy concrete highway at 65MPH.I pulled over.

A few questions:

*Are the cons normal?

*Payload question - My sticker states that my payload is 1500. If my tongue weight is 800lbs, my cover is 100lbs and 2 passengers weighing 350lbs. Does that mean I can only bring 250lbs of other stuff?

*Do I have the right truck?

Thanks
CJS
You like Ford F150's or you would not have bought one. Problem is the higher the trim level the lower the payload rating. There is an answer without going to a F250/F350 Diesel monster.

Go to the Ford dealer and talk to there commercial truck rep. Ask about the F150 with the HDPP (Heavy Duty Payload Package). This is available on XL and XLT trim levels only. Yep, your going to loose some of the luxo bits that destroyed the payload rating on your Platinum model. Order up a F150 XLT with Max Tow Package and HDPP. I think the quad cab is required. Skip the 4 wheel drive nonsense and the payload rating will be in the 3000 LB ballpark. That is hundreds of pound MORE payload than a F250 with a diesel engine is rated at.

Problem solved and your still in a F150. The cost for the Max Tow/HDPP truck will be thousands less than your Platinum cost and way more capable. You will have to order one of these F150's with the HDPP as most dealers do not stock them. Heck, most dealers probably do not even know they make them. Most salespersons are less than informed. They can finance you six ways to Sunday but know little of the technical side of the product. I have many years of experience working in different dealerships. God, I could tell you some stories! Happy travels in your new F150 Max Tow/HDPP truck.
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:37 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by NO NOIZE View Post
Your tongue weight is a lot more than that, the 800 pounds listed in the Airstream documents is without batteries, propane, camping gear, water etc.
For my 2019 model, the quoted tongue weight is with LP and batteries. Not that its seems correct, but at least that is what the brochure said.
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