Size rethink: thoughts on 28'Safari SE and F150/Tundra?

[55neal]

Thank-you everyone for your replies.
2air, am I blaming my ‘need’ for a bigger trailer on my defenseless grand-kids? I deny! No way! Not me! OK, but I really do love the 20’ SE, and I think as a hermit I could live happily in it forever, but I’m not a hermit. I do like visitors, friends and family alike. And Mike, my son, is right, I do need to make it not just possible, but comfortable and even attractive for them to do so.
I have read enough now that I have no fear of using an F150 for pulling any of the trailers I am considering. The decision now, I think, is between the 25’ and the 28’.
As to the issue of the lav sink, well, with my family (Mom = nurse, older sister = nurse, older brother = doctor) my upbringing bordered on the paranoic with regard to germs, especially after using the toilet. I can’t see being comfortable opening and closing a door before washing my hands. I know, not normal, but then again I have only rarely been accused of being normal. Actually, would a normal person even consider living in an aluminum tube? Anyway, no big deal, as you say, many floor plans with sink+toilet together.
ZarZac; holy moly, are the hitches really that heavy??? Now I understand what everyone is saying about payload capacity. I was thinking what’s the big deal, hitch weight is at most 1000# even with full tanks of propane and a bunch of heavy stuff at the front of the trailer. Now I get it. Thanks.
Gstephens; I clearly understand the value of a heavier duty truck. I would prefer an F250 regardless of tow capacity, simply more longevity and durability from any perspective. It is a matter of cost. For a few grand more, sure. For ten grand more, stretching it. But good grief! The reality is that, for any real difference in capacity, the difference is more like $17 - 20K. Not sticker price, real price. The F150s are heavily (!) discounted, the F250/350s much less so. I have set myself a budget, not cast in stone, but still a guideline I would prefer to adhere to, and if I’m going to stretch that budget, I would prefer it to be because of the trailer’s cost, not the truck’s. I will be living in the trailer, the truck is merely a tool to me. Having said that, if I do decide to special order an F250, I will need to wait a couple of months for the ‘09s to come online. At this time, I can neither order an ’08 nor an ’09. And there are nothing but 4X4, which I don’t want or need, Crew Cab, which is OK, diesel, which is a whole other discussion. I could also step down to a regular cab and save a bunch, and it would become affordable. So I have not ruled out a heavier truck altogether.
I may need to special order the trailer too because I don’t really care to have audio/video packages in it, I rarely watch television and have all the music and radio stations I want on my computer. If I special order one, I may just special order both, and end up with exactly what I want.
Safari28; well that pretty much says it all, doesn’t it?
Lynn; I think that campsites are pretty much a crapshoot from some perspective. Hookups? Wifi? Size/length? Road in? Trees? Pool? The list goes on, for some longer than others. Probably best to get a decent guidebook, read the blogs and websites of fellow travelers and have some fun figuring out the next day’s destination!
To Rick and Sandi and others who have sent messages of support with regard to my history with cancer; thank-you! I am beginning to feel a part of this ‘aluminum village’, scattered throughout the continent as it is, and look forward to sharing my journey in the months and years to come. And to any other cancer survivors, and any still in the battle, you are not alone. Share the load, PM me freely if you need to vent.
Neal

[TIMEMACHINE]

Neal,

What a great attitude..maybe you do over think a bit (don't most of us), but no matter what AS you end up with, you have the makings of a very good Airstreamer. I will offer no advice on the selection due to my bias which is only being subdued due to the late hour...see you on the road!

time

[me4us]

My wife and I are currently looking for the right tow vehicle for a soon to be purchased 25' Safari SE. Each dealer gives a different story. One won't sell me a half ton as it is much too light weight, the next says that the half ton is perfect. The issue, once we get past the towing abilities which many 1/2 ton models will handle, is the truck's capacity. It seems that the 1/2 ton trucks, even the ones with the greatest capacity, don't have much left over for weight in the truck. As someone just mentioned, pounds in the truck add up fast. We did a little math and found that even the GMC and Chevy maximum trailering package with the 6.0 V8 and a 3.73 rear will easily pull the trailer, but leaves only approximately 300 lbs for available cargo. Remember the number starts higher, but after you remove the pounds for tongue weight of #720, two adults and the basics, I only can put about 300 lbs in the back of the truck. I think that seems way too little for generators, grill, chairs, table, etc. Even the 3/4 ton only adds 500 lbs for thousands of dollars more.

We want to do this right. Help!

[safari 28]

It sounds lke your on the right track, I would really suggest looking at the 28, lots more room and having a isolated shower really helps in the morning.I work out of mine when on the west coast and every little bit helps.

Another suggestion is looking for a 2-4 year old unit that has seen little use. We found our 04 with one local trip by a paranoid doctor that only towed a wagon behind his trike as a kid. I bought it for over 50% less than he paid new and have done nothing major to it. Yes, some little problems but none more than couple of hundred bucks, and less troubles than some new units. Huge savings and most of the depreciation is gone.

I have stopped trying to justify my 08 150. I would never want a 250 series, and if needed one would go with a diesel bus instead. The new series 150 set up for towing is a great balancing act of engineering. Perfect, no, but I leased it and now thinking of buying it. That should speak volumes for you. Good luck and I put my rig away for the summer for boating and she comes out in sept for 2 trips to the west coast through march. keep in touch.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by me4us

My wife and I are currently looking for the right tow vehicle for a soon to be purchased 25' Safari SE. Each dealer gives a different story. I think that seems way too little for generators, grill, chairs, table, etc. Even the 3/4 ton only adds 500 lbs for thousands of dollars more.

We want to do this right. Help!

Maybe it's time to lighten the load or re think the packing process.

We load very little in our vehicle and load all our stuff in the trailer in the location of the axles where the weight is handled best. This works great for us and allows us to tow with a smaller, fuel efficient vehicle.

Note.. in our case we buy fire wood at the camp ground and have no need for a heavy gererator.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by GStephens

As to tow trucks, here is a little different perspective. I've ranched all my life. We currently own four trucks that we use daily in our operation. GStephens

Gs... Here is an interesting article about your State and the delay of the new F150 launch date. Ford's F-150 cutback hits heart of Texas | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Latest News

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by 55neal

The decision now, I think, is between the 25’ and the 28’...

IF that is the choice now, i'd go with the 25...

imo the 28 is the odd duckling size on 2 axles and would only consider a rear bed/front door version.

25s offer the best 'bridge between the baby trailer and the fatboy units...

then look for a 2005-2007 f-250 for towing...

the used prices on these babies are VERY appealing right now, if shopping tow vehicles.

(for example my 05 250 with >60,000 miles towing can be had for mid 20s and need NOTHING done to it...

since the fords have great receivers and mirrors and built IN brake controllers,

and correctly wired 4 and 7 pin connectors, and so on...

AND with a 250 at hand u will NOT be limited IF u decide on a bigger 'stream next year or the year after...

u are right about the wimpy payload issues and the phony 'towing capacity' inflation on many half-ton things...

the newest ford 150s have a pretty good capacity, BUT ford is delaying release of the new models AT LEAST 2 MONTHS...

since dealer inventory of 08s is 2-3 times higher than ideal or typical...

it will take more effort to find a small cab version of the 250, but they are out there, if u really want one.

but bear in mind my view is tainted, traveling SOLO in a 34 footer and the long, long truck...

and the combo is not ONE FOOT too much space, EVER!

so another issues are how far, how often and carrying how much stuff will your rv adventures take you?

if u mostly camp within 3-5 hours (one day) of home,

the needs can be very different than going on a 4+ week trip or traveling 200+ days a year...

Originally Posted by me4us

...We want to do this right. Help!

hi me and welcome to the forums!!!

what is 'right' isn't always obvious or the same for all...

know thy self and know your needs when working out the right stuff.

there are MANY examples of folks here who have used baby trucks and then moved to 3/4 or 1 ton versions...

virtually EVERYONE that does confirms the improved towing, space, capacity, up hill oomph, and so on...

IF buying your first trailer and ALREADY looking at 25s as the minimum size, get a 3/4 ton or larger beast...

because it is very likely the 25 will be 'just 2 feet small' very soon...

trading UP in trailer size gets VERY EXPENSIVE if you need to trade the tv too...

cheers
2air'

[ROBERT CROSS]

Just an observation.

We started Stream'n back in 1988.

Just joined the Forums last June. readreadreadread, learned a lot.

Boy, I can't believe how many things we done rong back then. I guess it

was just common sense that got us thru the next 20yrs.

But ya' know what, I wouldn't trade the experience for anything.

What's important..........GET STREAM'N!!

Enjoy the trip.

[JHollenbeck]

As an Ocean Breeze 25 FB owner, I have yet to get tired the beach cottage decor. Don't forget some of the extra cost is related to the wrap around windows on both ends plus the vista views up top. This contributes to a very light filled, open feel inside the coach. It's not absolutely necessary but it sure is nice. Bottom line, I dont think you can go wrong with any new Airstream, just don't expect it to be perfect, because it wont be.

[Van]

Originally Posted by COLORADO_CAMPER

Hi Neal,

I would have to say that it is not the best choice for any trailer over about 22'.

I just have to take exception to that. The 5.4 in the F-150 is a great engine and is the same engine you get in the F-250/350 models. It has plenty of towing power for any airstream.

[n2916s]

Just now rolling past 30k miles towing my 31' Sovereign all over North America (presently in Indiana headed north). Tow it with a 2004 Nissan Titan. Never have had a problem going, stopping, turning, passing, being passed....... 13 mpg towing. 17 solo.

Granted my 22 year old trailer is lighter than the closest equivalent modern version and we travel light -- everything in the back of my Titan weighs a total of 223# more or less (most is the spare tire and the EU2000i).

Personally, I think the Tundra is superior to the Titan and the Ford is the equivalent but you will find that argued inifinitely on the Forum.

The 31' is more than we need (we have lots of empty closet space) but the price was right. We kept the forward fold out couch (even had it restuffed and recovered) for our anticipated guests (many jr family memebers). So far, no takers. so we may take it out next winter for a dinette.

Have you considered buying an older unit and camping in it for a while to see what works, what doesn't etc. etc. ? A late 80's/early 90's unit has already been fully depreciated and you would probably be able to sell it for pretty much what you paid for it. Just a thought.

mike

[mandolindave]

A 1/2 ton might be fine if you only tow a few times a year. My 2000 1/2
ton has a towing capacity of 5000 lbs. (What have they done to beef up the newer trucks??????? ). Anyway, my trailer is only 2700 lbs, and I still think that I need a beefier tow vehicle.
I have a 20' trailer. It's too small while I am camping, too big when I am towing.

[Aage]

Now, this comment is from a non-owner (yet!), so take it for what it's worth...

About the only thing that hasn't been pointed out at least once in this thread is that, in a 20 footer, everyone in the trailer is in one room.

In the 25 footer, there is a door, and a person can be alone, if they so desire.

To me, this is essential, and the reason why I want a 25' AS. My DW and I get along fine, and have done so for the last 38 years, but there are times when one of us wants to be alone to nap, internet, read, whatever, and I cannot imagine full-timing in one small room.

A rear-couch unit will give you good floor room, where you can toss sleeping bags for the littlest ones, but the 15 yr old can certainly enjoy a tent outside beside you for those "most-crowded" situations. In any event, think back to when you were 15 and remember that in a very short time, IF he still wants to come with you, he may well have a female guest with him. In this case the outside tent will be a must.

Note: yes, I know that the bathroom has a door and is technically another room, but since it is a single-purpose room, let's not include it in this discussion.

My advice is to get an F150 now and get out there and try it! You won't really know if it suits your style till you do! The market on those is so strong, you'll still be able to get a 250 for next season, but I would point out that time is of the essence, especially when young ones are involved. Don't fritter away the rest of this season over-thinking it. Let's be honest, you won't be driving this rig for twenty years, will you? Nor will I.

In other words, ready, fire, aim.

I wish you "Fair winds and following seas", my friend...

[55neal]

Hello Airstreamers!
Jot; I do agree, the Ocean Breeze is absolutely beautiful. Is it $10 - 12K more beautiful than the Safari SE with the same floor plan? I dunno. Still rolling that one around in my head. I have decided on the SE version of the Safari, if I go the Safari line instead of the International. That way, I get the vista view windows and the panoramic ones front and back. But not that stunning ‘kaleidoscope’ engine-turned aluminum work and the white cabinetry. It’s just the extra cost I’m having trouble with.
Nah, nothing is perfect, not even Airstreams. But it is the imperfections that are going to make my Airstream my Airstream, and the challenges it gives me will simply make me a better Airstreamer. Such is the way with all things.
By the way, Jot, would you buy the 25’FB again? Always interested to hear if someone would do it the same way again, should the existing one disappear for some reason. I am liking the 25’FB more each time I look at it; it seems a perfect compromise between the luxurious but ponderous 27/28 footers, and the arguably small 20’ one.
Van; I suppose the 5.4 might run out of steam at the top of the largest mountain passes on the continent, but for the most part a rather sedate driver like myself will find it perfect, or any of it’s Chev/Toyota/Nissan etc competitors.
Mike; my goodness, 31’, that’s a big one. I can’t see just single old me rattling around in something like that. Be good for a family though.
I may well look at an older unit one day, but I think for my first experience I would prefer new. I will be living in it, so I don’t really have the luxury of being able to do much in the way of repairs/replacement in my situation. One day, maybe...
M-Dave; what is it that makes you wish you had a beefier truck? I have no idea what any of the manufacturers has done to make the trucks have more towing/payload capacities, but I have to think that there needs to be some justification for the numbers they claim. I think there would be legal issues if the trucks did not perform within stated parameters. Having said that, I do believe in the popular wisdom of ‘trailer GVWR + 15% and truck payload/towing capacity - 10%’ just to have a safety margin.
Aage; I’m not sure I understand what you mean by ‘in a 20 footer, everyone is in one room’? There is a sliding accordion door separating the bed/closet from the rest of the trailer, which sort of divides it up, visually if not sound isolating. There is a similar door to accomplish a similar purpose in most of the other trailers too, except maybe the smallest ones and the Sport models.
My son, Mike the fifteen year old, has expressed that for now he would like to stay inside the trailer when he is visiting or traveling with me. This, I realize is subject to change, especially with a girl-friend involved. I will cross that bridge when I come to it, and in any event, I have the grand-children to help me justify the larger trailer (25’ vs 20’)(I hear you chortling, 2air).
Yes, I think it is going to be an F150. With the 28’, I was questioning the wisdom of that truck, but I am confident that it will serve my needs with a 25 foot one.
Can’t say for sure about the driving of it for the next 20 years, but it will be for a long while, which is why I am being so careful about making the decision. Overthinking perhaps, but I have better uses for money than undoing mistakes that can be avoided. That’s why I’m so glad to have discovered this forum! What a wonderful community and knowledgeable resource this is.
And by the way, Aage, before I moved to the west coast to escape the mosquitoes, humidity and snow, I lived just up the 400 from you, in Barrie, then just west of there in New Lowell. Small world, huh?
Neal
Life is lighter and brighter in aluminum...

[Aage]

Originally Posted by 55neal

And by the way, Aage, before I moved to the west coast to escape the mosquitoes, humidity and snow, I lived just up the 400 from you, in Barrie, then just west of there in New Lowell. Small world, huh?

Neal,

While New Lowell may have mosquitos, we don't have them here in Aurora. And if you prefer the almost constant rain and cloudy skies that you get in BC during the fall (and winter, and spring) to snow, then you are perfectly situated.

"It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it" - Stephen Wright

[sherrylynne]

Hi Neal,

I just returned from 6 weeks in my 23' Ocean Breeze--took my sons ages 17 and 23 from Florida to California and back. Best thing I have ever done in my entire life. My truck is an '06 Tundra 4 door 8 cyl. It pulled fine but we used the interstate highways to go across the big mountains. Originally I was going to buy a 16 or 19 foot but the salesman told me I would be back in a year upgrading. He also said it is relly nice to have 2 axles instead of one. I will tell you 23' was fine but I would not have wanted to go any smaller.
Sherry