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Old 09-28-2010, 02:26 PM   #1
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sell my new tundra? add a leaf? stay single?

I own a 2010 tundra crewmax, and am headed towards buying a 28 ft flying cloud. After spending tons of time on this site looking into issues with the 1/2 ton tundras, I am beginning to wonder a bit how this is going to work. I am unmarried, no wife, no kids, no dog. My payload is lighter. My goal for now is to travel alone for weeks or months to more remote places. (I know the 28 is a lot for one person but thats another thread).

It seems to me that the issue of the tundra (towing capacity vs payload capacity) can be neatly explained by the issue of the ring gear: The ring gear is larger by comparison, allowing a better axle ratio, improving the sheer “tow capacity”. But toyota did not (comparatively) increase the suspension. The leaf springs are like any other half ton. Toyota thus leaves it to us to determine that 10-15% of the trailer on the hitch is going to be an issue - at least thats my take on it.

I created 3 small spreadsheets that show all my weights and numbers are within Toyota’s stated limits. In fact I am about 2000 lbs under the GCWR except for of course, the payload, which is right at or perhaps 200 lbs over. If I add family or friends or kids to the truck it will be over the limits. So how do I approach this? Is is not going to be safe for some unrelated issue such as braking or stability? The toyota brakes are huge, the quality is great, am I going to be fighting on hills? The tundra is going to weigh more than the trailer by a small margin.

thanks for any responses
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Old 09-28-2010, 02:36 PM   #2
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Not so fast on disposing of the Tundra, if you are within the towing capacity,
(actually 20%) under, you can make it work. The hitch and set up are also critical factors....I tow a 73---25' with a 6cyl Toyota Tacoma.....using a Reese dual cam anti-sway hitch set up....I am at the recommended limit for towing capacity, and with the 6 speed manual transmission have towed many thousand miles with no problems, and quite safely! Get to some of the Airstream Rallys and talk to the folks who have been towing for some time, my experience is that these folks are a better source than you will find at any RV dealer.....Good luck

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Old 09-28-2010, 02:58 PM   #3
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Besides our 19-foot Bambi, we also tow a 27-foot Bayliner cabin cruiser that weighs about 9,000 pounds. It's a triple axle, so the tongue weight is surprisingly low for the load, only about 350 pounds (less than the Bambi). However, our Tundra CrewMax has no trouble towing it. Before you choke on eating the depreciation on your new Tundra, I'd try towing the 28 foot trailer with it. The dealer might let you hook it up and drive it around the block, especially, if you are about to buy. I think you may be pleasantly surprised how capable your Tundra is.

We had an old 3/4 ton Chevy crew cab with a 454 V8, and our Tundra tows the same or better than the old Chevy, and it is a lot more comfortable, quiet and reliable. The Tundra's suspension is a little softer, but I'm not sure that Chevy's overload springs were good for the Airstream and it rode like an old truck. A newer 3/4 ton Chevy, Ford or Dodge might make you feel better psychologically, but I'm sure you are going to lose thousands on the trade-in on your Tundra. And, it may be an unnecessary trade.
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Old 09-28-2010, 03:57 PM   #4
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Carl28, I'm not sure if you know that a weight distribution hitch takes part of the tongue weight and transfers it to the front tires thru the truck's frame. As has been suggested, try to test tow one and you will see how well some of the hitches work. The key is getting the right stiffness of bars for your tongue weight. The Reese dual cam WD hitch is a popular choice.
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:19 PM   #5
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You might want to check in with CrawfordGene. He's from colorado and tows 25 AS with Tundra. He might have some worthwhile thoughts.
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:14 PM   #6
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I face the same problem. I bought a 2010 Tundra Crewmax to tow a 2008 25' Classic. I have a lighter tongue weight but the payload on the Crewmax (and on my truck) is typically much lower than the ball park figures you find on the Toyota website or that you hear from salesmen. All of those bells and whistles - moon roof, tonneau cover, running boards - add up very quickly.

I wonder what harm running over the max payload standard causes? So far I haven't seen anything specific. Does it impair handling? Or will it cause your transmission and running gear to wear out far more quickly than it otherwise would?
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:28 PM   #7
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I will remain an American car man. But, that being said I would say with a good WD hitch and anti-sway you have plenty of truck.

And I think a 28' is just the right size if that is what you like.
Have fun, enjoy your rig.

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Old 09-28-2010, 05:30 PM   #8
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Surely you can make it work. We (two adults in car) tow our 23' with a mid sized sport sedan and we are not over the car's axle load ratings. The WDH will help a lot. With such a large Airstream put most of your stuff in the trailer not the truck. With it all properly set up it should be fine.

PS.... It's an Airstream. They are an easy tow!
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:32 PM   #9
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If you've been diligent in reading threads around here then you've come across the idea

Choose the trailer first, the tow vehicle second.

And I'd imagine your spreadsheets include a set of certified scale ticket readings of your Tundra with driver, full fuel and otherwise empty (except those few things that never leave the truck) as your reading also indicated to you that published factory weights bear little meaning from truck to truck -- the variance is almost always 450-lbs or more from the above, and may be hundreds of pounds different than another, seemingly comparable truck. This information is central to your investigation; guesstimates of TV weight don't count; so,

Hitch rigging is reliant on certified scale readings.

CAT Scale Search

Weight of TT versus TV doesn't mean much if the rigging is proper and one has an aerodynamic, independently-suspended trailer (I would also add to that list disc brakes and a sway eliminating hitch) as these qualities have genuine, positive effects. (On the other hand, off-road tires tend to squirm, and oversize tires on a truck with a "lift kit" genuinely degrade towing performance). Preferably the truck has the factory towing package (that you may choose to modify for better performance; vehicle dependent).

As you read and re-read threads/posts keep in mind that there are those who think towing performance is "not good" if the rig can't crest Wolf Creek Pass at 70 mph . . the same ones who don't know how to use mirrors and are afraid of being runned over by faster traffic. A TV/TT combination is pretty well the worst-handling, worst-braking combination out there. So, with a TV with ordinary power there will be "slow roads" that, IMO, have absolutely nothing to do with gauging TV performance. Climbing some roads at WOT for minutes on end is meaningless. The truck is designed for it. And that's only in the mountains, or really nasty head/crosswinds.

And don't buy into the "argument" that a HD truck is better. It is better for some full-timers (so that should carry weight with you), as there is no denying the advantage of occasionally or constantly being able to carry more payload. But it has to be balanced against non-towing use, as a percentage. It just isn't worth buying too much truck for a few (thousand) miles versus (tens of thousands) more miles when solo.

If you like what you have, and the numbers are close, then you are probably alright assuming you are working from a genuine empty truck weight AND that the other estimates are also genuine. The trailer is JUST as likely to weigh more than published shipping weight as is the truck. So -- maybe -- deduct 5-700-lbs from TT GVWR and see where you are (after scale reading).

And, if there's any possiblity you will move up in size, or suddenly acquire a family, well, you already know the answer.

Have you found posts where this truck has been scaled empty? Have you found posts where this trailer has been scaled (with at least full fresh water/propane, plus some supplies)(also want tongue weight from other users)?

Upgrade your data set with real numbers, first. If your reading has included bookmarking other posts about this TT & TV, then post them that the next guy through will have some better data and the rest of us can offer insights to what may not be as clear as you need from those posts.

.
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:41 PM   #10
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I'd at least try it... make sure you're tires are at least load range D all around. I think you'll find that the "softer" suspension will make your AS shell last a lot longer. Make sure you get some WD setup that works for you...

I think you'll be happy.
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Old 09-28-2010, 06:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillon2 View Post
I wonder what harm running over the max payload standard causes? So far I haven't seen anything specific. Does it impair handling? Or will it cause your transmission and running gear to wear out far more quickly than it otherwise would?
I too would like to know the answers to these questions.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:50 PM   #12
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just replaced my old (97) chev turbo-diesel 3/4 ton with a 2010 crew max. Wife hated the chev plus this way can shrink my "fleet". replacing chev and land cruiser with one truck. Just did a 2500 mile trip central oregon to yellowstone and glacier the tundra was great!! We tow a 27 fb safari. I am planning on adding air bags just to protect the suspension when towing. We travel light the only extra stuff we took were our golf clubs, I got the crew max mostly to use non-towing to haul folks with us as a 4x4 replacement for the land cruiser. That backup camera makes hitchup a snap!
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:23 PM   #13
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I think that the Tundra with the 5.7L motor is the best gas tv available. It has a great motor, great 6 speed tranny, great brakes and lots of room. You may be close to the payload maximum as I am, but I think with carful packing and proper set up of the W/D hitch that you will be in fine shape. You could go to a 3/4 ton truck, but why spend the money when your Tundra will do the job fine IMHO and the 3/4 ton truck suspension would be much tougher on the AS.

Heck, I don't even use tow/haul mode except when I am going thru the mountains. It is just not even needed. I am definately not worried about anything wearing out prematurely on the Tundra.

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Old 09-28-2010, 10:01 PM   #14
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Give the Tundra a try before going to a new tow vehicle.
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:18 PM   #15
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One option would be to get a 27FB Flying Cloud instead of the 28. It is an inch longer then the 28 and the hitch weight is almost 200 pounds lighter according to the Airstream specs.

I tow with an 07 Tundra, but my trailer is vintage and much lighter.
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:34 PM   #16
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I just returned from the Alaska Caravan. There were three Tundras pulling 25 ft trailers. These trucks were doing just fine.

My observations plus discussion with one of the owners.(we ran together daily)

The engine with 6 spd tranny is great. My only negative is on bed load capacity with hitchweight on the towbar. I would put air shocks or helper springs on the truck. The weight distribution bars do their job but, the rear end is still going to be down a bit so your headlights are going to be too high.

A 28ft is not going to be much heavier. My truck is the gmc 2500 300hp 411rear 4 spd trans. I pull a 29 ft 1987 narrow body. 6500lbs on the wheels and 810 on the hitch. My buddies that I ran with daily had a gmc duramax allison crew cab and the crewmax toyota. The duramax allison would climb my rear on every hill and the Toyota was right behind him. I would trade all the electronics crap on my truck for a 6 speed trans. I know why gm finally went to the 6 spd. (they drove a Toyota and realized how bad they were going to get beat)

That truck will handle a 28ft just fine with a little attention to the rear and you will get 1.0 to 1.5 miles per gallon more.
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:38 PM   #17
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thanks everyone for your responses...

I have this feeling that if I go to a rally, I am going to see every possible combination of trailer and TV possible, but thats not to say they are all good ideas. I have this idea of being on a dirt road in alaska or canada and dont want to be underpowered, but I dont trust all these manf numbers either. For instance what would inland andy say....

WALTERO: a 25 ft trailer on a tacoma seems like a bit of a stretch to me for safety but thats not to say its more safe than a sedan like some people are doing. My numbers are estimates also so I may not really be inside of them once I load up

BOB: I was planning on a reese or equalizer hitch, my spreadsheets would never work without the WD hitch....I thought about an airsafe also, not so much for ride but to cushion the truck agains momentary heavy loadings on the hitch when going over a bump (certainly the actual hitch load goes up and down a lot when hitting a bump)

REDNAX: my weight on the truck scale is 6380 lbs with most everything in my truck, not including the hitch load. (I dont own trailer yet so those numbers are a guestimate). This weight was with me, a full tank of gas, the leer cap, bedrug, step boards, moonroof, computer, a pile of books and maps, 60 lbs of tools, and a few small items. I wouldnt add much unless it was people.

This leaves me about 900 lbs (the GVWR is 7200 lbs.) 750 lbs of this is the hitch (maybe more) that I have calculated. I calculated the fully loaded trailer at about 7200 lbs x 11% is about 792 lbs.

So that leaves me a bit of weight for a cheeseburger and some coffee!!

I’m afraid if I just hook it up and go I wont notice anything amiss unless there is trouble, or perhaps just wont really know for sure just whose numbers I am supposed to trust.

I guess what gene would say is that I am right at the limit, he seems to draw the line at the 27s which have a little lighter tongue load.....he has some nice posts

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Old 09-29-2010, 12:09 AM   #18
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oops on the last post I meant that I took the hitch load as an average of two different possible scenarios on a spreadsheet, and got a number of 740 lbs. (2/3 rd of the actual hitch weight). One of those numbers used 11% as a guide for a fully loaded trailer on the hitch. In the post above my memory wasnt performing correctly the way I typed it in

thanks to others for their encouraging posts. I should at least try it out first......

and go to the scales......
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Old 09-29-2010, 12:40 AM   #19
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Carl28,

I have 28' int and I tow with 2007 tundra crewmax and have reece dual cam. It tows fine. I was too, worried about the payload, and I haven't weighted yet, but am sure I am close to the max. However, I will say this. I have towed through CA highway 1 winding roads and down to pismo beach on highway 101 without any worries. Don't worry about power. rear suspension does undulate over imperfections of the road, but that is typical of all TVs. use airbags to help the suspension and you should be fine. When I'm going 65 on a smooth surface, I don't even feel the AS in the back. There are a lot of good half-ton pickups out there, and out of those, Toyota is one of the most comfortable trucks to drive towing or not towing. Only problem that you will have is to fill up the tank every 200 miles because the gas tank is so small. good luck and pm me if you have more questions.

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Old 09-29-2010, 04:54 AM   #20
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I tow a 28 foot ccd with my crewmax and it does great. I have a hensley hitch. Used to have an excursion diesel, and while the tundra is less power, i find it tows just fine, especially once i figured out that it runs better to just give it the gas and get into the meatier part of the powerband. Now also have the sequoia and it does well also. I'd consider adding airbags befor e the add a leaf.my sequoia has the ride height leveling and it works well with the trailer.
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