Seeking opinions on tow vehicle.

[Tbeck11931]

What size is your Airstream? Where would you like to take the Airstream? Mountains, long trips including winter in the northern plains, Canada or Alaska?
Why do you say no diesel? They are quieter than they use to be, very powerful for mountain high altitude towing, the engine allows you to use it for braking on steep grades. Fuel efficiency and the list goes on. My 2012 F-250 King Ranch is a pleasure to drive on long trips.
But if I had to choose another tow vehicle I would go with the F-150

[pappy19]

My AS is a 2002 30' Classic with a slide out and I tow with a 2008 F-250 Super Cab 4X4 Lariat short box. It is the shortest F-250 you can order. I have the 6.8 V-10 gas engine with a Mike's 5 Star programmer in 89 octane tow/performance mode. I have never had a problem with western mountains. I have had diesels in the past and enjoyed the power and mileage, but went back to gas due to the insane pollution mechanics, expensive maintenance, and $8k + initial cost. The new gas engines have way more HP and torque than just a few years ago and have more than enough towing capacity for any AS on the market. Those that run diesels, WANT a diesel but don't NEED a diesel. But hey, that's ok, it's certainly your privilege.

[guskmg]

It is all about what you intended use vs. capability. I have observed light weight rigs and heavy weights too. I have also owned both. If your Airstream is 28' or longer you need a 3/4 ton HD truck for a tow vehicle, unless you are only going to travel on flat land. The HD will give enough margin for all the extras that will pile up as you travel. The main reason though is general toughness and durability. When you get into the mountain, right away you will know if you made the right choice. If in doubt wait until you have to wait on a tow truck to come a 100 miles from Fort Nelson and get towed back and have to wait 5 days for a part just because the 1/2 ton could not take the heat generated while climbing the Rocky Mountain in NW Canada. Forget going up to Prudhoe Bay Bay North of Fairbanks, AK, like the Ice Road Truckers. Always buy too much tow vehicle. Just enough will run out when you really need it.
guskmg

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I've decided on which Airstream I'm buying, and now I need to trade my beloved Honda for a truck to tow.
I have my prejudices, NO Ram (had one) NO Diesels.
It's going to be a half ton. I need it to be my daily driver too.
So, here's the question:
If you could choose, would you buy a Tundra, a F-150, or a Chevy/GMC 1500?

I like Toyota, but their gas mileage isn't very appealing. it would be the 5.7 lt. engine.
The Ford has an aluminum block, eh.
GM is not high on my trustworthy list, but I'm not ruling one out.

What say you?

(I'm an automotive enthusiast, so this is just me being a rambling like an enthusiast.)

Tundra is Toyota's red headed step child. Boy, Tundra owners love them around here, even though they're all overloaded.

You know why their gas mileage is so terrible? Becuase they haven't updated that 5.7 in years and it's so anemic that they put steep gears in it to tow and make it feel powerful, but your mileage goes out the window. Most trucks don't roll off the lots with 4:30 gearing. And I'm not making that up, search google, screenshot attached folks. 4:30's!

Doesn't make any sense really when you consider the Tacoma. That's where Toyota shines in the truck market. The Tundra is just a sorry entry. It's starting to feel a bit like the "took 13yrs to redesign" Nissian Titan. Seriously Toyota could do so much better if they gave it the same amount of attention they give the Tacoma.

Don't get me started on the underpinnings of the truck, lack of rear sway bar, I'm going to start ranting, better calm down.

The Tundra is marginal at best. I mean the interior isn't even inspired. I looked online, looks like it's improved over the crud it used to be a few years back. Remember this >>



Anyways, I think they just build it for the set in their ways, "I'm going to buy a Toyota because it will be reliable people"

Hey man, no judgment. Whatever floats your boat.

Considering Ford, GM and Ram have come so far in the past couple of years, they've had to keep up.

I evaluated the big 3 for myself. You're right to question GM's "reliability". The thing is though, fixing them is cheap. All that badge engineering, these guys have got parts spread across multiple platforms. Something to consider.

You know what I don't like, square wheel wells. Once you notice it, you never un-notice. SQUARES!!!!

Ford owners are die-hard loyalist. I don't get it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I did like the F150 Platinum Eco-Boost when I tested one a while back. But the interior didn't fully resonate with me. I don't know why, but just sitting in it, I knew it wasn't my truck. That's a personal thing though.

I will say, Eco-Boost is a LIE. Yes the cake is a lie. Go test drive one, those turbos are fun. Good luck getting decent MPG's out of that thing. Sure it could be done, but the truck feels sporty. You won't be able to control your foot. The cake is a lie my friend.

Also, I'm probably in the minority here, but the new 2017 F250 is mhem. For some reason, the cab and styling looks better on the F150. When they carried it over, their design team got lazy or something. I mean this >>



BORING

versus this >>>



I'M GOING TO EAT YOUR FACE!



I ended up with a Ram 2500. I'll be honest, Chrysler has been owned a bunch of times and went bankrupt. Most of the time, they're churned out crap.

That being said since Fiat took over after their bankruptcy in 2009 and they spun the Ram brand out from under Dodge (this still confuses people, but Ram's are not Dodges anymore) they started turning out WAY better trucks.

Quality control at FCA is way up.

Honestly, I'm on my second Ram with no problems in the 3 yrs of ownership between the two. I had an 1500 first, and then upgraded last March to a 2500.

Interior fit and finish is on par with Ford. I've probably towed somewhere around 55k miles between the two trucks while traveling fulltime.

Speaking of fit and finish, this is my gripe. I was always a GM kind of guy, longest time. But why does everything GM puts out feel like a rental car. Seriously, remember we went to look at the GMC Sierra first, and I thought it was in a rental econobox at Enterprise.

Hopefully they've improved since 2014. They managed to improve the C7 over the snoozefest that was the C6 so maybe there is hope for GM. I dunno.


Am I rambling? Probably. Was any of this useful?

Most likely no.

And yes, I did write this post as though I was thinking aloud.



PS: Here's the screen shot 4:30's! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Yea it gets crap for mileage. But atleast it will tow up a hill.

[Jakattack]

Originally Posted by avionstream

Get a red one, that's my favorite.

Haha, perfect! I think I'm set!

[m.hony]

Tundra for sure.
After a Honda, a Toyota is the only one that will have that feel.
I have driven Asian/Japanese for 30 years. There is a difference in the feel- steering, braking, acceleration, shifting, position of seat, steering wheel, pedals, door handle...
My 1999 Nissan Pathfinder handles, drives, rides better than brand new 2017 GM fleet trucks- Express and Savana vans-
The steering, braking, acceleration is smoother.
The GM trucks in some ways feel clunky and clumsy in comparison.
I guess it may be what you are used to.
Only Toyotas for me.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by Tbeck11931

Why do you say no diesel? They are quieter than they use to be, very powerful for mountain high altitude towing, the engine allows you to use it for braking on steep grades. Fuel efficiency and the list goes on.

This is my opinion, not science.
First, they're expensive to buy, expensive to maintain. Diesel fuel should be cheap because it's the least refined, but it's expensive.
You may get slightly better fuel milage, then pay $3/gal at the pump while I pay $2/gal for gas. The diesels in small trucks are not the same as diesels in large trucks. Everyone I know who has owned a diesel has spent a LOT in repairing engine failures. Lastly, I currently own a motorhome with a diesel and it's been trouble free, so far, but the $600 oil changes at Cat every 5,000 miles have taken the fun out of it.
You claim engine braking, but a diesel has none. My motorhome would go downhill like it was in neutral if allowed. Big diesels have a "jake brake", or in my case a flapper on the exhaust which causes back pressure. I use it a lot.
To me, the cost to benefit ratio is not good.
If I lived in the RV and moved a lot, I might reconsider. I still have to use the truck as a daily driver and I want one I can get in and out relatively easily, park in a normal spot, make a u-turn in less than 8 lanes, and last 10 years.

As I mentioned earlier, a friend who has a 23' toy hauler bought a Ford F-250 diesel. By 85K miles, he had spent $9000 on engine failures, usually internal oil passages (according to the dealer).
He traded it on a Tundra with the 5.7 engine and is happy.
The You-Tube couple Loloho, just did a series on getting major engine work done on their diesel and they tow a 25' Airstream!

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

Chrysler has been owned a bunch of times and went bankrupt. Most of the time, they're churned out crap.

Agree! I had one of the crappy ones.

That being said since Fiat took over after their bankruptcy in 2009 and they spun the Ram brand out from under Dodge (this still confuses people, but Ram's are not Dodges anymore) they started turning out WAY better trucks.

Then why does JD Power rank "Dodge, Chrysler, RAM, and Fiat" as the bottom four in initial quality?

Honestly, I'm on my second Ram with no problems in the 3 yrs of ownership between the two.

Two in three years? I want one in 10 years!

[Mollysdad]

I love a good discussion!
But my initial conclusion is: You folks are all rich!
Maybe because this is the Airstream forum, not the Terry forum, but you guys buy new trucks like I buy new shoes, and I shop around then too!
Seriously, I want whatever truck I buy to last quite a while, and it will only be used with the trailer 10% of the time.
Research is always good.

[rostam]

If you can live with 1300# to 1400# of payload, then get the Tundra (verify actual payload by looking at yellow sticker on driver side door jam). It will last you well over 10 years. If you need more payload, I would suggest Sierra/Silverado with 6.2 V8 and Max Payload package, which gives you around 2000# of payload per door sticker.

You will get crappy MPG regardless. TFL did a towing MPG test of the new F150 with 10 speed auto. It got 9 MPG. Tundra, with 6 speed auto and a 10 year old V8 got 8 MPG. EcoDiesel got 13 MPG but diesel has more energy content per gallon so thats expected.

In my biased opinion, stay away from any vehicle that requires modification to get the job done. Get something that is tow ready right of the lot. Good luck!

[tatone]

Just my 2 cents, the only discussions should be on the big 3 American manufacturers. There is plenty of choice and you are not sending your money to Japan. By the way this is coming from your neighbors from the north.

[m.hony]

Most Toyotas are manufactured in the United States.
My Tundra was manufactured in Indiana.
I'm sure that it fed lots of people in Indiana.
The Tundra is now manufactured in Texas.
My Avalon was manufactured in Georgetown, KY.
I'm sure it feeds lots of people in Kentucky.
The Corolla is manufactured in Blue Springs, MS.
I'm sure that is feeding lots of North Mississippi families.
In some ways a Toyota is more American than a Chevrolet.
2011 Silverado 1500s were manufactured in Mexico with a very large Canadian parts content.
Toyota and Lexus are still always #1 and #2 on the Consumer Reports list of best cars every year.
Fiat and Chrysler are always in last place on the Consumer Reports list year after year.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by tatone

Just my 2 cents, the only discussions should be on the big 3 American manufacturers. There is plenty of choice and you are not sending your money to Japan. By the way this is coming from your neighbors from the north.

Tundra is made in San Antonio, Texas. Toyota provides manufacturing jobs for Americans, whereas some American companies are moving their plants abroad. Still, I would not let this factor alone decide what vehicle I buy. Its a global economy and no one has the power to change it. Mercedes, BMW, VW, Subaru, Honda, etc all have plants in the US.

[Caffeinated]

Four pages of discussion and all you guys have missed the boat. Everyone knows white trucks are the best.

Mike

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Then why does JD Power rank "Dodge, Chrysler, RAM, and Fiat" as the bottom four in initial quality?!

JD Power, LOL. So their rankings are BS. For example, for a number of years they've marked down Ford over the Microsoft Sync system, and Bluetooth problems >> http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...wer-study.html

A matter of fact, they are still counting complaints against Bluetooth and the stereo as "problems".

And maybe they are problems, but they're not reliability problems. You not being able to connect your phone is not a problem. Especially since it's not taking user error into account.

Here's the problem with JD Power: http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-study-feature

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Two in three years? I want one in 10 years!

I went from a 1500 to a 2500 Power Wagon. That's why I've had two. I should have started off with the 2500.

[m.hony]

Originally Posted by Caffeinated

Four pages of discussion and all you guys have missed the boat. Everyone knows white trucks are the best.

Mike

I disagree...
A 1970 Ford Maverick and a 2001 Ford Taurus put a sour taste in my stomach toward Ford.
My 2007 Toyota Tundra and 2014 Toyota Avalon have never given me that sour taste, but a love for a brand.
Crappy (and I mean super crappy) cars I've had:
1972 Volkswagen Beetle
1980 Volkswagen Rabbit diesel
1986 Pontiac Grand Am
Good (maybe even great) cars I've had:
1987 Mazda B2000 pickup
1995 Nissan King Cab pickup
1997 Nissan King Cab Pickup
I classify my 1999 Nissan Pathfinder as mediocre as compared to my Toyotas and too small, but it has been reliable for 18 years. Who drives the same car 18 years besides me? Even though I don't classify the Pathfinder in the list of best cars I've ever had I have owned it longer than any other car.
If I can drive an old raggedy Nissan for 18 years, maybe I can drive a better-than-that Toyota all my years? We'll see. If I do get another tow vehicle 10, 15, 0r 20 years from now it will be another Tundra.
My 2007 Tundra is now 10 years old and is still as new- paint, carpet, seat covers.
Tundra for life.
You can't tell me nothin'.
Look up the 1,000,000 mile Tundra on YouTube.
Every American (or European) car I've had over 30 years was a total POS.
Every Asian (Japanese, but manufactured in the United States) was a great vehicle. I'm sure even Hyundai and Kia (Korean) are great, but feel no need to find out or experiment when Toyotas a doing a great job of fulfilling a need.
As the OP has a Honda he loves and refuses to purchase a Fiat/Chrysler/Dodge/Ram, I'm sure the OP "gets it".

[Countryboy59]

Low end cars are generally gonna be crappy. Can't compare a '70 Maverick to an Avalon. Same with the Grand Am, Cutlass Ciera etc. they were cheaply made.

I always bought full size (I mean real full size not Honda Accord full size) cars and was never disappointed. Also lots of people complain about cars they bought used for cheap. You get what you pay for.

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by m.hony

1986 Pontiac Grand Am

I feel bad for you.

[m.hony]

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

I feel bad for you.

It was a POS, but I bought it used for $200, drive it for a year, my sister drove it for a year, and I sold it for $500 after 2 years. Lots of repairs and maintenance and upkeep. It was so basic. Roll up windows, no center console- just seat, floor, another seat... No number or letter designation- no LE or SE- just Pontiac Grand Am... Radio only- no cassette deck or CD player... I put in a $500 Sony deck and 10-disc changer... Stereo cost more than the car. The stereo ended up in my Nissan King Cab, Nissan Pathfinder and then in my sister's Nissan X-terra before it was stolen...
My so-called base model Avalon has letters- XLE- power heated leather seats, power windows, Bluetooth, USB, backup camera, push-button start- all in a "Base" model... The least expensive, most stripped down Avalon there is.
My wife always says the elite car models have letter and number designations... Numbers cars she calls them. Usually the numbers designate something like engine size. I guess that started with Jaguar, Range Rover, BMW, Mercedes and spilled over to Lexus and Infiniti and Acura...

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I agree. The 5.7 lt engine is rated for over 10,000#On paper, the Ford wins, but I'm not as confident with Ford's long term reliability. Especially with an aluminum block. My friend had a F-250 with a diesel and spent over $9,000 in engine repairs before dumping it. With 85K miles. that's a plusI wouldn't even mention GM except I've had three people tell me they love theirs.

I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time, so repairs aren't something I accept easily (thus no Dodges)

After owning several dodges, all trouble free their engines are second to none, the back seat floor has a cover over the top so it is flat......

[CRH]

I don't see how anything but trouble could be expected from a $200 car.