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Old 05-23-2022, 12:31 PM   #1
jcl
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Rivian R1T test with AS 30

The All Electric Family bloggers have just posted a test of a Rivian with their AS 30 Bunkhouse.

This is where we request that discussions focus on the vehicle and towing, not on political issues.

Inside EVs wrote about the test here.

Video follows. In addition to the expected range discussion, they go over the adjustable tow vehicle ride height, regeneration, rear camera for hookup, etc.

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Old 05-23-2022, 12:44 PM   #2
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For those interested in the cost per mile when towing an AS 30:

The test reported 1.18 miles/kWh

Average US cost per kWh: $0.14

Calculated: 8.43 miles per $

Calculated: $0.12 per mile

Now figure that if one is using only fast chargers, the cost per kWh can be double that home rate, or more, depending on the supplier.

I am not used to calculating miles, so I worked it out for a current model pickup, estimating 12 mpg towing, and $8 per gallon, giving $0.66 per mile. If others are still able to purchase fuel at $6 per gallon, that is $0.50 per mile.

As always, YMMV.
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Old 05-23-2022, 01:06 PM   #3
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They lost me at "XXX miles @ 55 mph". I want to get to my destination as quickly and safely as possible - not to be "that guy" crawling along in the right lane at 15 MPH under the speed limit. Let's see some real world tests at 70 MPH, not the same contrived speed limits that the EPA and others use for MPG estimates.
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Old 05-23-2022, 01:38 PM   #4
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Old 05-24-2022, 04:07 AM   #5
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The video concentrates too much on sunglass wearing lady jibberjabber and not much detail. The info below highlights why EVs are not useful tow vehicles unless you dont go anywhere, and it is simple flat terrain as the video shows a pretty flat tow environment. A basecamp weight, would be more practical with electric power.

For some that might be great but it's extremely limiting to stay within 100 miles of home base. I can barely get out of my zipcode at 100 Miles and 55mph, which is the speed limit nowhere in TX but in city limits. 55 Is great for NY But not the free world.

Sorry folks the Tech is just not there yet for towing. You need DINO POWER still and will need a separate tow vehicle that runs on GAS for towing if you buy one of these, meaning you have to spend yet another 50K to get anywhere.

We wont mention the fact that Ford lost its keester on this Rivian model and, nobody wants it.


""All Electric Family provides many more details in the video, including an estimate that their R1T towing the Airstream in these conditions is likely to get about 140 miles of electric range, which isn't bad.

This means they could potentially travel about 2.5 hours (give or take) at 55 miles per hour before having to stop for a charge. Even if they played it safe, they could probably stop about every two hours or so.""
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Old 05-24-2022, 07:48 AM   #6
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I am about to take a trip to an area that doesn't have a charging station within 50 miles of where I'm camping.

I did read that GM is coming out with a new battery that will be a faster charging and longer range battery. That should help. At least for passenger vehicles it makes it a bit more advantageous.

But until there are more charging stations in rural areas I don't think EV's for towing are the way to go at least for now. And I'm not inclined to go camping in urban and suburban areas.

And as the previous post said, this wasn't very informative.
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Old 05-24-2022, 08:01 AM   #7
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The "All electric family" appears to have propane tanks on the Airstream.
<gasp>
I like the Rivan, but I'll take my reviews from an unbiased source.
Power may be $0.14/kwh today, but when everyone is driving an electric car it will skyrocket.
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Old 05-24-2022, 08:40 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
...
Average US cost per kWh: $0.14
...
$0.14 might be a good estimate for home charging. But on the road, DC/DC charging rates tend to be more expensive.

In his video the rate was $0.24. This was for 350kW charging as an Electrify America member. Perusing the EA web site this looks to be the typical rate. Rates tend to be a bit higher in a few states or if a non-member. Also rates are halved if you use slower "fast" charging.

Still cheaper than gas on a miles/dollar basis.
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Old 05-24-2022, 08:42 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
I am about to take a trip to an area that doesn't have a charging station within 50 miles of where I'm camping. ...
Every campground that has electrical service at your site is a "charging station".
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Old 05-24-2022, 09:53 AM   #10
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I am a fan of electric vehicles and would like to use one for towing travel trailers. But, this is another test showing that they are not yet practical.

They cruised at 55 mph, but actually averaged less than 50 for the test period — which is common experience. With driving for two hours to not risk running out of power, and stopping for an hour (including time to get off and back on the highway) one’s average speed would be in the low 30 mph range. Only 300 miles would take ten hours, three of which are spent killing time.

This might work for very local outings, but is a no-go for traveling the western US.
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Old 05-24-2022, 09:55 AM   #11
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150 Mile range is good. The optional larger battery pack will gain another 50 miles or so. Or maintain the same mileage for a higher speed. Every day brings more EV charging stations. Bucees in Texas is adding them and this will be fantastic for roadtripping (Tesla is also getting some as well). Progress is amazing and am thankful for the those that are moving us further away from the buggy whip.
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Old 05-24-2022, 09:56 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by idoco View Post
$0.14 might be a good estimate for home charging. But on the road, DC/DC charging rates tend to be more expensive.

In his video the rate was $0.24. This was for 350kW charging as an Electrify America member. Perusing the EA web site this looks to be the typical rate. Rates tend to be a bit higher in a few states or if a non-member. Also rates are halved if you use slower "fast" charging.

Still cheaper than gas on a miles/dollar basis.
$0.14 is the statistical average in the US for home and business charging where it isn’t marked up. I estimated double that at a fast charger, whether $0.24 at EA or $0.25 at a Supercharger.
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Old 05-24-2022, 10:09 AM   #13
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We wont mention the fact that Ford lost its keester on this Rivian model and, nobody wants it.
That is one way to put it. Another is that Ford made a profit on their Rivian shares. Just not as much as they originally planned for, and which they had earlier booked as profit. Welcome to speculative stock investing.

I don’t think the challenge with Rivian is that nobody wants one. Too many people want one given the long wait lists. The challenge IMO is in ramping up production.
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Old 05-24-2022, 10:20 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by field & stream View Post
I am a fan of electric vehicles and would like to use one for towing travel trailers. But, this is another test showing that they are not yet practical.

They cruised at 55 mph, but actually averaged less than 50 for the test period — which is common experience. With driving for two hours to not risk running out of power, and stopping for an hour (including time to get off and back on the highway) one’s average speed would be in the low 30 mph range. Only 300 miles would take ten hours, three of which are spent killing time.

This might work for very local outings, but is a no-go for traveling the western US.
I think the improvements we will see over time will include more attention to aero penalties on the trailer (eg lose the roof mounted AC); more efficient tow vehicles (vehicles like the Rivian and Lightning have larger batteries than EV cars, but use that battery capacity just to move the tow vehicle); and potentially narrower trailers (length and weight don’t impact range as much as frontal area does).

Using current test reports, for a more efficient EV towing an AS 27, your 300 mile example could reasonably be done at 60 mph plus one or two charging stops. That takes your 10 hours down to 6 or 7, in round figures. Still not for everyone, but better than 10, and getting closer for many.
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Old 05-24-2022, 10:39 AM   #15
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I'll be pushing up daises before this is reality.

Best read these articles....

https://www.cars.com/articles/your-g...vation-446126/

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/cal...ts-2022-05-06/

They are stressed in CA to just keep the lights on.

Grid issues, what happens when more vehicles come online. The answer - build more charging stations? At what cost? All this will drive up the cost for fueling the batteries.

Want a little range angst - no thanks I'll keep my F250 with its Titan tank and its 700 + mile range. Rest assured that the cost for electricity will be going up.

FYI - we have been trying to order a new Grand Cherokee 4Xe plugin hybrid for months to no avail. Tons of reviews yet not one has been delivered to a customer in the United States. Some were ordered last January. There's more going on than supply chain issues if they have failed to deliver one unit to a customer.

Would love to have some variant of electric vehicle but this tech is in its infancy.
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Old 05-24-2022, 10:58 AM   #16
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Battery towing

Interesting test and results are more or less as expected. More likely than not, 15 years from now this will all be moot. Batteries will be in small cars. Hydrogen will power the tow vehicle as well as the RV and we can all take a load off instead of towing a couple of tons of batteries. I applaud those who are first movers and put themselves and their commitment out there for all to see. For the record. I have been in oil and gas for more than 4 decades and I see the need for change. Hopefully most people do. A lot of folks never tow more than 100 miles from home or are simply not in a hurry and that is OK as well.
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Old 05-24-2022, 12:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by field & stream View Post
I am a fan of electric vehicles and would like to use one for towing travel trailers. But, this is another test showing that they are not yet practical.

They cruised at 55 mph, but actually averaged less than 50 for the test period — which is common experience. With driving for two hours to not risk running out of power, and stopping for an hour (including time to get off and back on the highway) one’s average speed would be in the low 30 mph range. Only 300 miles would take ten hours, three of which are spent killing time.

This might work for very local outings, but is a no-go for traveling the western US.
Our experience has been a little different. We just drove back from Flagstaff AZ to Philadelphia PA. ~2500 miles in five days. We have 20k+ miles towing electric.

Our "dead empty range" is ~200 miles. Longest leg ever between charges is 160+ miles. Longest day ever 600+ miles. On our last trip we were traveling between 55-65 mph most of the way back(occasionally up to 67 mph).

Below are a few examples from this and other trips. Travel times include stops for charging. When not boondocking we charge overnight at the CG so we have a "full tank" when we start out.

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Old 05-24-2022, 12:21 PM   #18
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Electric vehicles certainly may be our future. My at home rate is 0.34 per kWh
I will refrain from my political comments as requested
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Old 05-24-2022, 12:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idoco View Post
Our experience has been a little different. We just drove back from Flagstaff AZ to Philadelphia PA. ~2500 miles in five days. We have 20k+ miles towing electric.

Our "dead empty range" is ~200 miles. Longest leg ever between charges is 160+ miles. Longest day ever 600+ miles. On our last trip we were traveling between 55-65 mph most of the way back(occasionally up to 67 mph).

Below are a few examples from this and other trips. Travel times include stops for charging. When not boondocking we charge overnight at the CG so we have a "full tank" when we start out.

Attachment 416432
Attachment 416433
Attachment 416434

Thanks for adding this example of significantly better performance. The range helps understand where we are today, and where we are headed.

My guess is that most of this difference is due to the differences in aerodynamics, and weight. Your Bowlus (that I totally love!), compared to an Airstream, is a foot shorter, over a foot narrower, and the shape has less drag. In addition, it weighs about half of what the mid- to larger Airstreams weigh. The Tesla too is a remarkable performer.

For most of this audience, who will be towing Airstreams and will choose pickup trucks to haul their “stuff”, I think your numbers are at the best possible end of the scale, and that the Rivian test results are in the most likely zone.
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Old 05-24-2022, 12:42 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by idoco View Post
Our experience has been a little different. We just drove back from Flagstaff AZ to Philadelphia PA. ~2500 miles in five days. We have 20k+ miles towing electric.

Our "dead empty range" is ~200 miles. Longest leg ever between charges is 160+ miles. Longest day ever 600+ miles. On our last trip we were traveling between 55-65 mph most of the way back(occasionally up to 67 mph).

Below are a few examples from this and other trips. Travel times include stops for charging. When not boondocking we charge overnight at the CG so we have a "full tank" when we start out.
Good information, thanks for posting it.
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