Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[ModernVista]

Not sure about the Audi, but when the Cayenne 7-pin trailer is connected it knows you are towing and changes defaults. So auto start/stop is disabled on mine for example.

Chris

Originally Posted by Imdakine1

We finally got our 2021 Flying Cloud 23FB and am towing with a 2021 Audi Q8. It works great! We use an EAZ Lift Elite 800 WDH with the factory tow package and the Curt Triflex as the AS dealer wanted to use what was recommended by Audi for the brake controller. I wanted Tekonsha P2 but hard to find the harness for Q8. Seems like Q7 harness is easier to get and maybe Q8 doesn’t exist?



Main issue is Curt Triflex has no on off and if I am but towing the car senses towing not sure if is because I have the hitch/shank still attached to square of the Q8 or the always on brake controller confuses the car as it always says tow mode so some safety features turned off.



The Q8 toes very well and the AS dealer is very impressed. They like the width of the Q8, the overall size and was able to park in driveway better than with the Ford F-150.



Any advice on why Q8 goes to tow mode automatically which turns off side mirror sensors etc…?

[ealmasy]

Originally Posted by ModernVista

the RF remote is for the controller settings/ not the brakes. So If you unplug the remote- or lose signal- the brakes still use the last setting and still work (although you can’t change them)

How do you apply just the trailer brakes (to stop swaying before it can get out of control) without the remote?

[ealmasy]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

I've had ZERO issues with RF interference either over 9 years, & Tekonsha has many more years than that with many customers with no issues that I've seen. That is the real world in operation experience.

As for your stated interference or signal blocking from "something dense in between" - it's only 10'-15' or less from the trailer A-frame to the driver's seat, & perhaps if you put a huge steel bank safe in the truck bed or SUV cargo area - then you may have some blocking - but even then the signal is able to get to the cab unit.

Again, I'm glad you haven't had any trouble. But as someone with 25+ years of experience installing a wide array of wireless gear, and I can assure you that a wireless link can be made unreliable by a lot less than a huge steel bank safe, depending on the type of connection employed. And serious RF noise can come from the most unexpected places. For my use, I would feel a lot better about using the Tekonsha RF controller if they disclosed more details about the underlying link so that the potential for (or resistance to) disruption is clearer, but they don't.

[Imdakine1]

Originally Posted by ModernVista

Not sure about the Audi, but when the Cayenne 7-pin trailer is connected it knows you are towing and changes defaults. So auto start/stop is disabled on mine for example.

Chris

Similar with Q8. But when I’m not connected to 7 pin the car seems to think I’m still in tow mode. I think it’s my curt tri flex brake controller which doesn’t seem to have a power switch so it’s always on and maybe the Q8 assumes it is connected…?? Ughhh

[Otis Porsche]

Just subscribed to the Airforums. Considering purchase of a trailer. We have been off-grid / off-roading our 958 diesel from the hot Chihuahuan desert up to the frozen Arctic Ocean at Tuktoyaktuk. In 2013 & 115k miles ago we added body protection with a bush bar, skid plates, roll bar, rock sliders, and PPF. Thought is to get a base trailer to then explore from.
Still confused about how nice a weight distribution hitch would work with our air suspension. Seems to be two schools of thought.
Any trailer we would get will have to fit inside a 20' shipping container.

[Imdakine1]

Originally Posted by mdwstnr

Hi all, completely new to all of this and have searched through several forums and groups on Facebook, but still so many questions! Our Airstream arrives within a week and dealer said they're not familiar with our tow vehicle, so will need to research it once the trailer arrives. Local Audi dealer really has no idea or input.

The TV and Airstream stats:

2021 Audi Q7 55 TFSI
Combined weight occupants/cargo not to exceed 1,202 lb.
Max trailer weight 7,700 lb.
Max tongue weight 770 lb.
Air suspension (w/trailer mode)
Factory tow package (receiver and wiring)
Tires 285/35 R22 106Y

2021 Caravel 19CB
Hitch weight 550 lb.
Unit base weight (w/LP & batteries) 3,850 lb.
Max trailer capacity 5,000 lb.
Net carrying capacity 1,150 lb.

Notes from Q7 Owner's Manual in section "Trailer towing":
-"Never mount a "weight-distributing" or "load-balancing" trailer coupler as the trailer hitch. The vehicle was not designed for these types of trailer hitches. The trailer hitch can malfunction and the trailer can break off from the vehicle."
-"Audi recommends always using the maximum permitted tongue weight"
-"drive select Comfort mode must be selected" (affects vehicle height/tongue load)
-"air suspension trailer mode must be switched on"

I've seen many of the posts about installing a weight-distributing hitch on this tow vehicle, but also see many references to the different specs as well (year, factory tow package, air suspension, etc.) - doesn't that make a difference to installing at least the WDH? Dealer is recommending (w/o researching) a 6,000 lb. Equalizer(?) WDH with stabilizer bars. He also mentioned only installing stabilizer bars, but said I wouldn't be able to back up with those (same thing as anti-sway?). Can I just install the sway bars and not the WDH?

Additionally Audi dealer recommends (from their parts dept.):
CURT Ball Mount ZAW092730B
CURT TriFlex Brake Controller ZAW055204A

Airstream dealer recommends:
CURT Echo Bluetooth brake controller

Also need: ball (2 5/16?), ??

Looking for any point-of-view, experiences, guidance, input, etc., thanks!

While I’m far from an expert I have similar setup as you with a 2021 Audi Q8 and a 2021 Flying Cloud 23FB. I spoke with Andy Thompson who is here on the forum and am pleased with my overall setup. My AirStream dealer wasn’t able to accommodate my request for the Tekonsha P2 or P3 as it appears they couldn’t find the “holder kit” for the Q8 but I think they could for a Q7 and didn’t want to proceed using a Q7 version.

Ended up with the Curt Tri-Flex as you stated and works fine but not my first choice.

The Q8 is similar as you now as the Q7 and it tows really well. The main quirk I have is the Q8 thinks I’m
In tow mode even though I’m not so many of the safety features are turned off quickly is really annoying.

This might be due to the Curt Triflex brake controller as I it doesn’t appear to have an off switch. So the Q8 may assume I’m towing even though I don’t have the 7 pin connected etc…

[Bier]

Originally Posted by Imdakine1

…

Any advice on why Q8 goes to tow mode automatically which turns off side mirror sensors etc…?

Definitely something got messed up during install or the Curt is causing problems. Straight from the Q7 manual (and I’m assuming same for Q8) it states what you are experiencing should only happen once something is hooked up to the 7-pin. Did the Airstream dealer or Audi or someone else do the work? I would imagine this could be trouble shot by disconnecting the Curt and seeing if it is to blame.

[Bier]

One other thing to try is have you attempted to manual switch off the trailer mode i your MMI? I know it’s primarily for the air suspension system but curious if that would tell the q8 “hey I’m not towing”.

[mdwstnr]

Originally Posted by Imdakine1

While I’m far from an expert I have similar setup as you with a 2021 Audi Q8 and a 2021 Flying Cloud 23FB. I spoke with Andy Thompson who is here on the forum and am pleased with my overall setup. My AirStream dealer wasn’t able to accommodate my request for the Tekonsha P2 or P3 as it appears they couldn’t find the “holder kit” for the Q8 but I think they could for a Q7 and didn’t want to proceed using a Q7 version.

Ended up with the Curt Tri-Flex as you stated and works fine but not my first choice.

The Q8 is similar as you now as the Q7 and it tows really well. The main quirk I have is the Q8 thinks I’m
In tow mode even though I’m not so many of the safety features are turned off quickly is really annoying.

This might be due to the Curt Triflex brake controller as I it doesn’t appear to have an off switch. So the Q8 may assume I’m towing even though I don’t have the 7 pin connected etc…

Yeah sounds like we have similar setup - does the Q8 also have the air suspension? Seems like a lot of the Q7 posts I've seen they don't have it, so wondering overall what difference that makes.

On the brake controller not crazy about mounting that on the dash so maybe will give the bluetooth unit a try; can always plug in the Curt later since I understand with the tow package it's all set, but yeah looking at the Tekonsha as well.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by ModernVista

Not sure about the Audi, but when the Cayenne 7-pin trailer is connected it knows you are towing and changes defaults. So auto start/stop is disabled on mine for example.

Chris

I agree with Chris - I'm pretty sure that all tow capable SUVs in the VW/Audi/Porsche/Lambo/Bentley + their Euro/RoW lines have the same automatic tow mode sensing with the factory hitches, which won't automatically engage with the other aftermarket hitches.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by ealmasy

Again, I'm glad you haven't had any trouble. But as someone with 25+ years of experience installing a wide array of wireless gear, and I can assure you that a wireless link can be made unreliable by a lot less than a huge steel bank safe, depending on the type of connection employed. And serious RF noise can come from the most unexpected places. For my use, I would feel a lot better about using the Tekonsha RF controller if they disclosed more details about the underlying link so that the potential for (or resistance to) disruption is clearer, but they don't.

As noted by others above - the Tekonsha RF operated the trailer brakes through the 7-pin electrical connection to the TV, & the RF unit on the trailer A-frame has the hard wired inertial & braking sensors hard wired in the controller box in line with the Trailer to TV 7-pin wiring harness - so all trailer braking is still operable even it your feared RF interference were to happen.

Could you lose the boost button if there were any serious RF interference - perhaps, but the braking operational & inertial system & trailer brakes are still fully functional for regular & emergency stopping.

As I said - I've had 9 years of experience with my RF - & as far as I can tell you have zero. I also have 55+ years of construction industry & design/engineering experience as a developer & Architect in working with our projects' Electrical Engineers on some very sensitive equipment in high value & security conscious facilities - including Data Centers - and I didn't have anything close to what you're concerned about.

I don't want to discourage anyone's cautious approach for their own rigs, such as your decision to forgo RF.

However, if you're going to make cautionary statements to other people on this forum - then you need to research & cite with links to specific actual users who are having or had RF interference problems with the Tekonsha RF.

To simply state that Tekonsha didn't supply you with the specs that you want to see - which is probably also proprietary information for their patented products - and then jump to an unsupportable conclusion that the must be RF interference because they won't give you specs - is just lax engineering/science.

So if you want to warn us off of the Tekonsha RF due to possible interference, then provide the actual real world evidence of such - as people have done about the Curt Echo Bluetooth units problems in this topic & other topic(s) reviewing it - including the one I started asking for Echo feedback.

Otherwise, you're just putting out unsupported hearsay, speculation & guess work projected from you not getting Tekonsha's protected spec info.

I'd be thankful & glad to look at actual real world data on the Tek RF - as I'm sure would others reading on here.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Imdakine1

Similar with Q8. But when I’m not connected to 7 pin the car seems to think I’m still in tow mode. I think it’s my curt tri flex brake controller which doesn’t seem to have a power switch so it’s always on and maybe the Q8 assumes it is connected…?? Ughhh

If you have the tow bar/ball or a Hensley/ProPride stinger in the Audi's & other V/A/P/etc. tow vehicle's hitch receiver - then it will still sense that you're hooked up to a trailer (or about to), so it will stay in tow mode.

They probably do it that way because 7-pin & other trailer electrical connectors have been known to come out of the receptacal in the TV in motion, so you wouldn't want the tow settings to go off which still hitched & towing.

I think that's pretty universal on all TVs - whether it's an automatic tow mode, or manually engaged with the shifter button or dash switch for tow mode - you don't cancel the tow mode when still towing.

I had that happen back in 2012 with a Ford F150 & the 7-pin popped out & was dragging on the road destroying itself, but the truck stayed in tow mode with the AT shift lever button engaged the who time.

However, on the Fords & Dodge/RAM TV & others with a manual tow mode engagement you do have to re-push the tow mode button every time after a stop & shut down (e.g.: for gas, rest stop, etc.) - which is a bit of a PITA.

So the V/A/P auto mode is much better IMHO.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Otis Porsche

Just subscribed to the Airforums. Considering purchase of a trailer. We have been off-grid / off-roading our 958 diesel from the hot Chihuahuan desert up to the frozen Arctic Ocean at Tuktoyaktuk. In 2013 & 115k miles ago we added body protection with a bush bar, skid plates, roll bar, rock sliders, and PPF. Thought is to get a base trailer to then explore from.
Still confused about how nice a weight distribution hitch would work with our air suspension. Seems to be two schools of thought.
Any trailer we would get will have to fit inside a 20' shipping container.

Otis - your 958 with AS should work fine with a WD/AS hitch, so long as you get the factory hitch & have a dealer reprogram the ECU's for towing mode activation whenever hitched.

No 2 schools of thought - but the USA Cayenne/et al specs do allow WD hitches, while the Euro/UK does not because it's against the law over there.

Also - you may not need to limit yourself to a 20' trailer to fit inside a 20' single TEU container, because most of the containers today are 40' (2-TEU) units anyway - although then you'd be sharing space with other parties stuff.

Additionally, you'd better check the actual inside clear length of the 20' container vs. the actual overall length coupler to bumper - because many are "classed" as 20' trailers - when they're actually longer.

For example, our 1960 Avion T20 is listed & advertised as a 20' - our actual coupler to bumper length is more like 21'-6".

So do some more homework on trailer vs container dimensions.

Also check with Andy T about setting up your CayD & hitch.

https://www.canamrv.ca/

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/
.

This is his article on a 958 TDI & 30' AS -
https://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/hit...ch-diesel-417/
.

We planned to get a Cayenne TV whenever we found the perfect one & were towing enough to pass the break even point of renting (i.e.: when my wife retired) - and will staart looking again in a bit when things open fully & used/new car prices get back to normal.

So back in 2012-13 I got the Hensley Cub WD/AS hitch - which is a lighter capacity than their Arrow & less costly than either the Hen-Arrow or ProPride (10,0000 lb GTW rated) for our 1960 Avion T20 (3000-3500 lbs wet/loaded) - & the Cub good for up to GTW 6000 lb trailers for best sway elimination & rear hatch clearance, etc. (see above & prior posts); & the Tekonsha Prodigy RF brake controller on the trailer so I won't have to bugger up the Cayenne's dash with a hard wire mount of a controller.

There are many SoCal PCA members with AS equipped Cayennes/958s towing all sorts of trailers - so check with your Pungent Sound area PCA to check with other local Cayenne/958 owners towing with WD/AS. Also back into his topic are may other CayTDI owners towing on here - some with AS vs those with steel springs.

If you're planning to tow off-road, then an AS or a silver-twinkie kin may not be the best choice with their low ground clearance, so one of their or other trailers with higher ground clearance may be a better choice for boondocking (although some on here do take their AS's off-road boondocking).

Now take a hose to your dang Cayenne!

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Bier

Definitely something got messed up during install or the Curt is causing problems. Straight from the Q7 manual (and I’m assuming same for Q8) it states what you are experiencing should only happen once something is hooked up to the 7-pin. Did the Airstream dealer or Audi or someone else do the work? I would imagine this could be trouble shot by disconnecting the Curt and seeing if it is to blame.

<snipped>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imdakine1 View Post
…

Any advice on why Q8 goes to tow mode automatically which turns off side mirror sensors etc…?
<end snip>

The Cayenne's & other V/P/A/L/B SUVs towing reprogramming turns the mirror sensors, LCA & some other "features" off when towing for safety (mirror sensors apparently would go off due to the trailer behind), as well as re-mapping the ECUs/ECMs for things like some of the engine performance, trans shift points, braking, etc. - & pre-DieselGate it also changed the TDI's engine braking performance for towing downhills - among other things changed in tow mode.

It's initiated automatically by the tow bar/ball or stinger when inserted into the factory hitch receiver.

That's the way it is supposed to work, when a hitch is properly installed & vehicle reprogrammed for tow mode.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Bier

One other thing to try is have you attempted to manual switch off the trailer mode i your MMI? I know it’s primarily for the air suspension system but curious if that would tell the q8 “hey I’m not towing”.

That should not affect the tow mode - only the tow bar/ball or stinger in/out of the factory receiver - from what the Porsche Techs have told me, & the VW & Audi etc. cousins are all using the same system - so I don't think the Q7/Q8/Q5 are any different.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by mdwstnr

Yeah sounds like we have similar setup - does the Q8 also have the air suspension? Seems like a lot of the Q7 posts I've seen they don't have it, so wondering overall what difference that makes.

On the brake controller not crazy about mounting that on the dash so maybe will give the bluetooth unit a try; can always plug in the Curt later since I understand with the tow package it's all set, but yeah looking at the Tekonsha as well.

Read up on the Curt Echo Bluetooth in here & other topics on AirForums about it first - if you're looking at that one.

IMHO the Tekonsha Prodigy RF is the far better system.

The V/A/P/L/B air suspension is great with all of their respective SUV according to owners posting in this & other topics on here, and other Forums.

From owners of both Q7/Q8 & Cayenne that I know - the AS & steel springs in either/both - for the Audi is tuned for more comfort/luxury drive, while the Porsches are tuned for tighter more sporty driving.

As for me - because we keep our vehicles long term - I don't want the air suspension due to they being hard to get & keep set-up, as well as my not wanting to get stuck with not being able to get good quality Factory/OEM air bags, compressor, controllers, ECMs, etc. at 10+/- years down the road when the auto makers stop supporting the parts. So I prefer the steel sprung suspension Cayennes for us to buy, if at all possible.


Cheers!
Tom
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[Glen Carter]

I tow my TB19CB with my Cayenne S/957 w/air suspension w/o WD hitch.

[ealmasy]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

However, if you're going to make cautionary statements to other people on this forum - then you need to research & cite with links to specific actual users who are having or had RF interference problems with the Tekonsha RF.

To simply state that Tekonsha didn't supply you with the specs that you want to see - which is probably also proprietary information for their patented products - and then jump to an unsupportable conclusion that the must be RF interference because they won't give you specs - is just lax engineering/science.

I very much doubt that it's the case, but if Tekonsha has rolled their own proprietary wireless link, then that would be even worse, because that would mean that A) a brake controller company is developing technology for which they almost certainly do not have adequate in-house expertise, and B) it hasn't gone through even a tiny fraction of the use and testing that most standard RF connection mechanisms have seen.

Anyway, I never said that Tekonsha's unit was notably unreliable or problematic. What I did say was that wired connections are in general more reliable than wireless, and I could not find enough info from Tekonsha to gauge how robust the wireless mechanism they chose might be, and for those two reasons I chose to go with wired.

[Bier]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

That should not affect the tow mode - only the tow bar/ball or stinger in/out of the factory receiver - from what the Porsche Techs have told me, & the VW & Audi etc. cousins are all using the same system - so I don't think the Q7/Q8/Q5 are any different.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Not saying you're wrong as I only know what's in the owner's manual, but what I was referring to is from my 2021 Q7 owner's manual that states trailer mode for air suspension vehicles comes on when you plug in the 7-pin and that you can manually turn it off via the MMI (see image). This easily could be completely unrelated to what Imdakine is talking about, but was just wondering if manually switching off tow mode had any affect on the items he was mentioning.

[Otis Porsche]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Otis - your 958 with AS should work fine with a WD/AS hitch, so long as you get the factory hitch & have a dealer reprogram the ECU's for towing mode activation whenever hitched.
Now take a hose to your dang Cayenne!
Cheers!
Tom
///////

Tom, thanks for the detailed response! Lots of homework to research. Our target is to hit the road February 2022. Also need to research how well Airstream's do in cold temps. Will search the forum for help.
Not returning to Tuktoyaktuk soon where we saw -40F temps but will travel in freezing temps. We do clean 'Otis' up after an adventure - had to de-ice after the below 5,510 mile (one way) trip. Shipped ours back to the lower 48 from Anchorage and flew home.
You mentioned PCA - there is an article on our 958 in the December 2016 Pano.