Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[megster]

Originally Posted by Ken J

Wondering if anyone has had any experience towing with the V-6 gasser ?

Yes, I have a v6 Land Rover LR4 which I tow my 28’ Globetrotter I had CamAm build me a custom hitch and set it up for me..

[Mr. Merk]

Originally Posted by Rovin Raven

Theoretically a good idea, but I don’t want to invest in another system and then change the set up out for the rare renter without a truck. There are a lot of bolts on my Reece WD/Sway system.

I'd dump the Reese system and use the Andersen full time. It's adjustable height too for multiple tow vehicles.

[Rovin Raven]

Originally Posted by foster2

The risk from the weight distributing hitch is low compared to the risk of letting initiated drivers tow your airstream. Interested to know what happens when you attempt to file a claim for damage and your insurance disclaims.

What makes you think they wouldn’t cover it? I have commercial insurance specifically for people who rent their rvs.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Rovin Raven

Theoretically a good idea, but I don’t want to invest in another system and then change the set up out for the rare renter without a truck. There are a lot of bolts on my Reece WD/Sway system.

Tell the guy with the 8 to look at the sticker on his hitch where either Oris or Westfalia or whichever OEM supplier to BMW that made the hitch will give BOTH with & without WD ratings.

In fact, WD is allowed on ALL of the Euro SUVs & many other vehicles, & they are designed for it - but the UK, European & a few other countries outlawed WD hitches back in the 1960s-70s in order to protect their local small lightweight trailer makers from the bigger USA makers' larger & heavier trailers using WD. Even Airstream makes/made smaller lighter trailers for the non-WD world markets in the Eurozone & UK.

So their TUV based tow ratings & approvals are for non-WD trailers as used in the Eurozone & UK (or other home country DOT equivalent). However, their USA & Canadian DOT ratings are based on WD or non.

Unfortunately the Euro car makers are not doing a good job of updating their owners' manuals for non-Euro/UK markets where WD is legal, & it happens with the Porsche, VW & Audi manuals too - despite the Tech Specs given to dealer techs & tags on the hitch receivers showing both tow ratings.

If you look back into this now very long topic, you will see that this issue has been discussed before a few times already, so do more research in here if you must.

Otherwise - protect yourself & your investment in the AS - & tell your potential renters about this fact of WD allowed in the USA/Canada/etc., & tell them to do some research into their SUVs, & to use your WD/Anti-sway hitch if they want to rent your AS - period.

As for the X8 - think about it - why would BMW allow WD on the X5 & X3, but not on the X8?

Of course, BMW, MBZ, VW/P/A, etc. should do a better job with their manuals & include a towing chapter for the USA/Canada/etc. markets with WD - & help the customers of their very expensive vehicles, as well as themselves to keep selling them to us here!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[Jay Gee]

Hi all, newbie question here. We’re planning to jump into the Airstream world via a vintage Overlander, and I’ve gotten confused with the math on tow vehicles and weight ratings. I think the Q7’s 7700/700lb tow capacity should be plenty for a trailer that should weigh no more than 4000lbs dry, same for the 1367lb total load for a family of 4 & gear. We do not have the air suspension option.

What thoughts am I missing here on capability of the Q7? Looking for additional areas to consider before we get a trailer and then discover we need to upgrade our tow vehicle. Thanks!
-John

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Rovin Raven

What makes you think they wouldn’t cover it? I have commercial insurance specifically for people who rent their rvs.

They have a valid point.

Even pre-pandemic - as of 10-15 years ago ALL of the major CAR rental companies had specifically prohibited towing within their rental contracts for ALL of their vehicles - including Hertz/Dollar/Thrifty, Avis/Budget/ Alamo/National, Enterprise, etc.

They all used to allow it, but have stopped due to the problems, accidents, & liabilities from inexperienced renters running out with no prep & education nor experience in towing - rent for a weekend, & ooops!

This is as distinguished from their respective TRUCK rental Division which DO ALLOW towing, but will require you to carry your own $1-2+ MM umbrella policy + your auto insurance policy, or to buy their own daily/weekly insurance.

Enterprise Truck Rental is the only one which is easy to rent for private parties that has "reasonable" rental rates on 1/2 & 3/4 ton crew cab pick-ups properly fitted with 7-pin/4-pin combo electrical hook-ups. Toyota dealers' TRAC program has some that will rent trucks & SUVs & allow you to tow, but most just use TRAC for shop rentals of cars & small CUVs. I'd used both, but the local TRAC went away when that Long Beach CA dealership was sold in 2014.

Whereas, Hertz Commercial requires you to set up a commercial account to rent; & Budget Truck, Penske, etc. only equip their box trucks to tow (i.e.: no pick-ups); while U-Haul only has 4-pin (i.e.: no electric brake capacity) because all of their trailers use surge brakes, plus their miles rates will kill you.

When we got our 1960 Avion T20 back in 2012 I thought that we could just go to the local Hertz etc. car rentals for a truck, but found out that they'd changed their rental rules.

I would not rent either of our trailers, but renting the TV when you only go out a few weekend a year is less costly than the full time "care & feeding" of a TV, but have been planning on getting one when we do more trips now in retirement, & have been looking for a CayS off-&-on up until the shut down - which is on hold again for now, since we're going nowhere for most/all of 202, with all of our vntage trailer rallies cancelled through October at least, & with our own concerns of traveling short of effective vaccine(s) & treatment(s) available, being 65+ with other health issues.

Cheers!
Tom
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[mikextr]

Originally Posted by Jay Gee

Hi all, newbie question here. We’re planning to jump into the Airstream world via a vintage Overlander, and I’ve gotten confused with the math on tow vehicles and weight ratings. I think the Q7’s 7700/700lb tow capacity should be plenty for a trailer that should weigh no more than 4000lbs dry, same for the 1367lb total load for a family of 4 & gear. We do not have the air suspension option.

What thoughts am I missing here on capability of the Q7? Looking for additional areas to consider before we get a trailer and then discover we need to upgrade our tow vehicle. Thanks!
-John

You're not missing anything, John. The Q7 is a great TV and the Overlander you describe is well within it's towing capacity. No need for WD or sway control. Freeball it. I freeball my 67 Overlander when towing with my Cayenne Turbo S without issue. Tire pressure is critical on the TV and trailer. Check your manual. Your Q7 probably has a higher tire pressure specification for towing and use the highest pressure suggested for your trailer tires. Sometimes, a well intentioned know-it-all at the camp site will try to enlighten me about the benefits of WD and sway control. It's annoying as hell. Usually, I'm in a good mood with people and just tell them that my set up is rock solid because I know my TV and trailer specs and follow the towing guidelines in my Porsche manual. Don't plan on changing a thing.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by mikextr

You're not missing anything, John. The Q7 is a great TV and the Overlander you describe is well within it's towing capacity. No need for WD or sway control. Freeball it. I freeball my 67 Overlander when towing with my Cayenne Turbo S without issue. Tire pressure is critical on the TV and trailer. Check your manual. Your Q7 probably has a higher tire pressure specification for towing and use the highest pressure suggested for your trailer tires. Sometimes, a well intentioned know-it-all at the camp site will try to enlighten me about the benefits of WD and sway control. It's annoying as hell. Usually, I'm in a good mood with people and just tell them that my set up is rock solid because I know my TV and trailer specs and follow the towing guidelines in my Porsche manual. Don't plan on changing a thing.

I read with interest your comments, speaking of "well intentioned know it all"'s...would you also recommend not to wear a seat belt because your a good driver?? WDH is insurance and safety for towing. Most of us drive vehicles with anitsway built in...another level of safety. WDH has saved my bacon twice now in 15 years...I'm not a well intentioned know it all; just a cautious person wanting to enjoy safe travel towing my AS...hope you are too.

Riding on the "edge" of your tow limits in terms of payload, not using a WDH, airpressure mentioned, are all very important. Only takes one accident to convince some folks.

[TBDub]

I know I've seen mentioned that the hitch ball should preferably be close to the rear bumper. I've atch'd a picture of my hitch. Or at least I think it's atch'd. I always seems to get that wrong. At any rate, my receiver was installed by Can Am and my hitch by the dealer in Troy, OH. The ball sits 11" in back of the bumper. Seems like pretty far back to me, but it might be just right. We are planning a trip out to Montana which will be my longest haul.

Would like some thoughts.

Thanks. Hope the pic shows up.

TBDub

[travco72]

Looks too far to me. I would send the picture directly to Can Am and ask for advice. Here is a sample picture provided by Can Am on other discussions showing how close is optimum.

[HappyHapgood]

Too far back. I had mine back that far originally because that is "Stock". But the shank needs a hole drilled that shortens that length by about 2". Then some folks will suggest you should "plug" the prior hole (I haven't).

Once you shorten the shank length it will reduce the lever arm and improve the ride. BUT... your hatch MAY hit the trailers electric Tongue jack motor. If it does, don't fret... you can rotate the head 60 degrees or maybe 90 degrees and resolve the conflict 95% of the time. The remaining 5%... use the tongue jack to raise the trailer... that will improve the clearance even if connected.

[NGavush]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

NG -

If I recall correctly, that Touareg hitch should have parts that go into the L & R unibody longitudinal channels on each end behind the 4 bolts. So you should google for the hitch parts diagram to confirm, & then may have to go back to pull them out of the donor vehicle.

Nah. The bumper beam/hitch Is the same part. No additional pieces are present.

However - you should also 1st check on the electronics compatibility of the VW hitch with the Porsche Cayenne ones, since the electronics sense when hitched & automatically puts the CayS into tow mode (sometimes Porsche does things on their cars to intentionally make them different from their VW & Audi partners, probably to sell their own parts).

The control unit is the same too.

Call a local dealer to confirm if compatible or not, & then you will also need to go into the dealer to have them reset the ECU(s) on your CayS for that hitch mode electronics, since they have the electronics to reset/reprogram them.

I am the local dealer. Worked there nearly 20yrs. You just have to set one of the codings in the gateway for “with trailer connecting device”

I don't think using reducer bushings on a receiver with a WD hitch is a good idea, with the torque which the WD Blue Ox is going to put on that assembly, & the movement that the bushings will allow.

I think you misunderstood what I was doing. The holes where the hitch Where it mounts to the vehicle are larger than the mounting hardware. Very early vehicles used larger hardware, which they later downsized but didn’t change the hitch construction. The bushings installed prevent any movement of the hitch vertically relative to the hardware that’s fastened to the vehicle. This is likely a completely unnecessary modification as even the later model hitches fasten in this way.

Although nowhere near the pricing you got on this hitch, both Sunset Porsche in OR & Suncoast Porsche in FL & Hennessey Porsche in GA sell the correct new 957 hitch for your CayS, & they sell at a discount from what all other P-dealers charge for it (check all 3 for best parts prices). I think they were about $800 for the complete hitch, electronics/harnesses, etc., & would carry the 12 month new parts warranty (yours was 10% of that, so understand your bargain hunting).
They're a good reference for future CayS & other P-car parts.

Yeah. I think my price from work which is cost plus 10% was going to be around 800 with tax. No thanks.

There are also a few posts earlier in this thread about a 7pin adapter for the Euro SUVs to allow them to work with our US trailers, about $20-30 I think from Curt, so maybe get one along with the 4/7pin together (eTrailer, Camping World, local trailer shop, etc.).

Yeah this setup happened to have the correct one installed. We also keep them in stock at the dealer.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by TBDub

I know I've seen mentioned that the hitch ball should preferably be close to the rear bumper. I've atch'd a picture of my hitch. Or at least I think it's atch'd. I always seems to get that wrong. At any rate, my receiver was installed by Can Am and my hitch by the dealer in Troy, OH. The ball sits 11" in back of the bumper. Seems like pretty far back to me, but it might be just right. We are planning a trip out to Montana which will be my longest haul.

Would like some thoughts.



Thanks. Hope the pic shows up.

TBDub

That is true on short wheelbase TV's.
If the wheelbase is long enough it makes little difference.

Bob
🇺🇸

Since 2007 without any concerns....

[Sweendk]

Originally Posted by NGavush

Nah. The bumper beam/hitch Is the same part. No additional pieces are present.


The control unit is the same too.




I am the local dealer. Worked there nearly 20yrs. You just have to set one of the codings in the gateway for “with trailer connecting device”

I think you misunderstood what I was doing. The holes where the hitch Where it mounts to the vehicle are larger than the mounting hardware. Very early vehicles used larger hardware, which they later downsized but didn’t change the hitch construction. The bushings installed prevent any movement of the hitch vertically relative to the hardware that’s fastened to the vehicle. This is likely a completely unnecessary modification as even the later model hitches fasten in this way.


Yeah. I think my price from work which is cost plus 10% was going to be around 800 with tax. No thanks.



Yeah this setup happened to have the correct one installed. We also keep them in stock at the dealer.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/new...eply&p=2377399
Having done the job myself (‘16 Cayenne S), your quote sound perfectly reasonable. I ended up pulling several overlapping interior panels... a pain!

Guys, rely on, go to someone with experience like this poster (NGavush).

[TBDub]

Got a few responses mainly saying that it should be done per the owners manual. The only thing the manual says is that the distance should be at least 2 9/16" 65 mm from the bumper, which begs the question, what is the outer limit? I've added some images, the manual and a side view showing the height of the ball. It's 21" which is out of the range in the manual (13 3/4" to 16 1/2"). When I'm hooked up everything is nice and level. Have drive between 500-600 miles this way but now planning a trip from Ohio to Montana, Utah, New Mexico and back, so I thought I'd see if my setup could cause me a problem. Can Am setup the Reciever and Arbogast in Ohio the hitch.

TBDub
Dayton, OH

[TBDub]

I discussed moving my hitch forward on my T-Reg (currently 11" from bumper) with Andy at Can Am recently. He said I could have the shank drilled out, but also recommended switching out my 1,000# Equal-i-zer with a 800# Eaz-lift. In the end he said that if it has handled alright for the past two years I probably wouldn't notice much change. So I'm going to stick with the Equal-i-zer setup and re-drill the shank.

Two questions. If I move it forward 3" do I need to adjust my my spring bar setup? Can't believe you can get that solid 2" steel shank drilled out just anywhere, possibly a local machine shop.

[HappyHapgood]

My setup didn’t change at all after shortening the shank length. No bar change.

As for drilling the shank... it’s not hard to drill with just hand drill, but the challenge without a drill press would be ensuring it is completely straight. A machine shop can certainly do it easily.

Originally Posted by TBDub

I discussed moving my hitch forward on my T-Reg (currently 11" from bumper) with Andy at Can Am recently. He said I could have the shank drilled out, but also recommended switching out my 1,000# Equal-i-zer with a 800# Eaz-lift. In the end he said that if it has handled alright for the past two years I probably wouldn't notice much change. So I'm going to stick with the Equal-i-zer setup and re-drill the shank.

Two questions. If I move it forward 3" do I need to adjust my my spring bar setup? Can't believe you can get that solid 2" steel shank drilled out just anywhere, possibly a local machine shop.

[Bruce B]

One year ago, after 7 years of towing a 16’ Airstream with 2 pickup trucks, I decided to purchase a 2019 Audi Q7.
We only towed to Maine and back one time. The Audi was just a week old for that trip with about 400 break in miles on it. Once I realized that my new Audi had been delivered with the tires under inflated (the dealer told me that they rode better that way!) the towing was just fine.
The Q7 seemed like a perfectly acceptable tow vehicle for our Bambi and it is a delightful vehicle to drive when not towing.
Now, things are changing... It began with thoughts of a Bowlus Road Chief. Cool trailer but in the end they made it way too difficult to continue thinking about purchasing.
So, the new trailer bug firmly in place, we decided to simply go back to what we knew. We have instead placed an order for a 25’ Globetrotter.
We will take delivery in early December and we hope that we will be able to take the trailer around the country next year.
So... the Audi. Although I have read every post in this thread at least a half dozen times now and I understand that the Q7 can pull the weight, I am uncomfortable with the carrying part of the equation.
By Audi’s standards, the vehicle would be overloaded.
In any case, even if I did want to modify the vehicle (I don’t) I would always be just a little uncomfortable pulling with the Audi.
Yesterday, we traded the Q7 in on a new truck.
In any case, I happen to like driving trucks and my wife drives a really fun Audi SQ5 so...

[Mr. Merk]

I've been a huge advocate of towing with the German pigs having successfully completed a cannonball paced trip to Banff from Arkansas with our 6000lb trailer in tow.

That being said, I just picked up a 2005 Duramax. I don't believe it will tow "better," but it was inexpensive, has extra payload capacity and I want to do a little off-roading on some of our trips. Been working on getting it up to snuff the last couple weeks until last Thursday when the pitman arm broke clean off while my wife was behind the wheel. Luckily she was in a parking lot and not driving down the road or pulling the Airstream.




The Airstream definitely pushes this 1/2 truck around


side by side comparison

[mjwcubed]

Hi, new to whole towing....have towed my 17 FC 23FB with my 2017 Cayenne S. Towed with a new Equalizer on it.

I have now purchased a 2020 Globetrotter 25 Twin - and now a bit nervous about towing with my Cayenne....I have had a few communications with Andy at Can Am, but wanted to reach out to this "ask a friend(s)" knowing how much expertise is on this site. Truly thank you in advance - as know the very subjective topic (yet still science and physics) topic of TVs often make some insane:-)

again, thanks in advance for your kind opinions:-)