Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[Andrew T]

Hi Dave I would not suggest an Equalizer as it will bend your receiver. The torsion bars are not tapered so they have limited travel or range of motion. When you drive through a dip they don't bend so something else does.

The best bet with a non reinforced receive is an Eaz-Lift system with a welded ball mount. This minimizes the overhang and the bars have more travel than any other hitch I have tried.

Here is a picture of the system on a Cayenne.

Andy

[dasams]

Originally Posted by Andrew T

Hi Dave I would not suggest an Equalizer as it will bend your receiver. The torsion bars are not tapered so they have limited travel or range of motion. When you drive through a dip they don't bend so something else does.

This is cause for concern. But can't a nontapered bar be sized such that it flexes similarly to a tapered bar? I realize the bended shapes will be different but the end result should be the same, no?

Originally Posted by Andrew T

The best bet with a non reinforced receive is an Eaz-Lift system with a welded ball mount. This minimizes the overhang and the bars have more travel than any other hitch I have tried.

We're buying a new AS and the dealer offers Equalizer or Blue Ox. Which would you choose?

[Andrew T]

Even on a covered wagon they knew to taper the springs for suspension travel. The tapered bar has more range of motion because it bends from one end to the other. A spring that is not tapered only wants to bend at the very end.

With a non tapered bar you can set your hitch up properly but as soon as you drive through a dip you will bend your receiver a little bit further and your set up is gone.

Which would you choose? EQ or BO

Personally I am not a fan of either hitch for different reasons. The EQ because the bars are not tapered. The BO because there is no friction sway control and because the ball is too far behind the bumper. Both hitches are very heavy to handle as well.

One disadvantage to the eaz-lift is that you need to grease the torsion bars. Other than that it is the best we have found for most applications. We do use our own shanks with them. Recently they changed to cast iron shanks that are not very good.

Andy

[2011Cloud]

Am pulling a 20FC with 2016 diesel touareg and WD hitch. Amazing stability control as Can-Am understands so well. I am having the shank shortened and will reinforce the hitch if she convinces me a larger rig is needed.

Mileage averages 35 mpg at 60 mph without tow and drops to about 17 mpg with tow. Synthetic oil consumption is zero without tow and averages about a liter per 8,000 mile with tow. Our average run is 6k-8k miles.

Anyone experience similar fuel and oil consumption rates or does this seem to be a tuning problem over hard runs? Hitch setup equalizes vehicle with a very slight up-tilt to the rig.

[mhutchinson]

Originally Posted by 2011Cloud

...Mileage averages 35 mpg at 60 mph without tow and drops to about 17 mpg with tow...

We run a 2013 T-reg TDI and 16 Sport so not exactly the same but similar. We get 30-33 mph highway without the trailer and 17-19 mph with the trailer. I generally tow with the cruise set at 65 mph.

[ARF]

Originally Posted by 2011Cloud

Am pulling a 20FC with 2016 diesel touareg and WD hitch. Amazing stability control as Can-Am understands so well. I am having the shank shortened and will reinforce the hitch if she convinces me a larger rig is needed.

Mileage averages 35 mpg at 60 mph without tow and drops to about 17 mpg with tow. Synthetic oil consumption is zero without tow and averages about a liter per 8,000 mile with tow. Our average run is 6k-8k miles.

Anyone experience similar fuel and oil consumption rates or does this seem to be a tuning problem over hard runs? Hitch setup equalizes vehicle with a very slight up-tilt to the rig.

We traveled ~30K miles this past year, towing a 27FC with a 2015 Audi Q5 TDI. Avg 32 mpg unhitched, and 15-16 towing, never going over 65mph. I added a liter of oil three times, plus had two Audi service intervals.

[JCWDCW]

My Dakota 4.7 does not burn oil in normal driving with 238,000 Km on it. Normally use semi-synthetic. When I know I'm going to tow a lot in the oil change interval I use full synthetic. I burned about a quart in hilly driving over 5000 Km last summer also very hot conditions and pushing it from time to time to make up lost travel time. This is a bit more than I have seen in the past , but there are also times when I don't burn oil at all while towing. Synthetic change interval is nearly double normal interval so that can have some bearing.
JCW

[tusocks]

Originally Posted by 2011Cloud

Am pulling a 20FC with 2016 diesel touareg and WD hitch. Amazing stability control as Can-Am understands so well. I am having the shank shortened and will reinforce the hitch if she convinces me a larger rig is needed.

Mileage averages 35 mpg at 60 mph without tow and drops to about 17 mpg with tow. Synthetic oil consumption is zero without tow and averages about a liter per 8,000 mile with tow. Our average run is 6k-8k miles.

Anyone experience similar fuel and oil consumption rates or does this seem to be a tuning problem over hard runs? Hitch setup equalizes vehicle with a very slight up-tilt to the rig.

2011 Cloud-
Would you please tell me what WD hitch you have & did Andy at CANAM do the installation? Thanks
Mark

[sws323tt]

We have a 2012 28’ INTL SERENITY, I’ve had to Touareg, first one was a 2004 six cylinder gas. I towed are 28 for two years about 22,000 miles. In 2014 I bought the diesel model. I’ve never had any problems whatsoever during our 28, I average about 17 miles per gallon. I have the Hensley hitch. We use an RC brake system.

[PKI]

Originally Posted by Andrew T

-- snip -- The BO because there is no friction sway control and because the ball is too far behind the bumper. -- snip --

Andy - please expand on your objection to no friction sway control.

In what way is the spring sway control not effective? My concern is that friction provides resistance to movement in all directions. Not ideal in some conditions.

Would really appreciate your input. Thank you for the prior expansion on why you prefer the Easy-Lift design. Very helpful. Pat

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by mhutchinson

We run a 2013 T-reg TDI and 16 Sport so not exactly the same but similar. We get 30-33 mph highway without the trailer and 17-19 mph with the trailer. I generally tow with the cruise set at 65 mph.

Towing mpg penalty of 40% is the expectation. Same roads at same speeds with TV load same (short of TW). 1967 or 2017, doesn't matter.

An AS ought to trend a little lighter. Less than 40%.

I'd put 40 or higher to driver.

Still, a TV that does above 20-mpg highway solo is where the savings curve tapers off.

[ChiAir]

Apologies if this has been covered. I'm sure it has but I couldn't find despite some searching. Wife and I plan to get to a Safari or FC 25'. I'd like not to get a pickup or an SUV that drives like one, so my heart wants a Cayenne. GVWR of the AS is 6300 to 7300 depending on the year. Cayenne towing capacity is 7700, so far so good. My concern is tongue. Most members said their 25' AS has about 1000 lbs on the tongue. Cayenne tongue capacity is 770.

I see many of you are pulling Airstreams longer 25' with Cayennes.

Thoughts, suggestions, product recommendations are welcome.

[dasams]

Originally Posted by ChiAir

GVWR of the AS is 6300 to 7300 depending on the year. Cayenne towing capacity is 7700, so far so good. My concern is tongue. Most members said their 25' AS has about 1000 lbs on the tongue. Cayenne tongue capacity is 770.

I towed an FC 25 over 20,000 miles last year without issue. My factory hitch lists capacity at 7716 lbs (3,500 kg) and tongue at 616 lbs (8% of tow). Nobody should tow with 8% on the hitch due to the risk of sway.

Many have had Andy strengthen their hitch. Google "Andy Blog - Hitch Hints/ Towing with Diesel SUVs (41.4) - Can-Am RV Centre" for an interesting read.

Only you can decide whether a Cayenne is right for a 25' AS. GL, Dave

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by ChiAir

Apologies if this has been covered. I'm sure it has but I couldn't find despite some searching. Wife and I plan to get to a Safari or FC 25'. I'd like not to get a pickup or an SUV that drives like one, so my heart wants a Cayenne. GVWR of the AS is 6300 to 7300 depending on the year. Cayenne towing capacity is 7700, so far so good. My concern is tongue. Most members said their 25' AS has about 1000 lbs on the tongue. Cayenne tongue capacity is 770.

I see many of you are pulling Airstreams longer 25' with Cayennes.

Thoughts, suggestions, product recommendations are welcome.

Yes, you're right, it has been covered in here before, so take the time to read through the thread, as it will educate you on many other issues Cayenne. Don't try to short cut & ask for new info, & skip the great stuff already posted .... I know, lotsa posts, but worth your effort.

Next, shoot an email off to Andy T. at CanAm for his reccos - someone has already posted info & pix on what to do if you want a local shop to do the setup like Andy/CanAm does, but in IL you can easily get up to ONT (as opposed to us on the left coast), & find the link to his article on Cay TDI setup for towing an AS 27' IIRC .... more good education.

Then do some towing research & general vehicle research on RennList & 6SpeedOnline - & if you're considering a TDI, then look at the Porsche website on the Dieselgate Settlement, & be aware that once "settled" that Porsche/VW/Audi will probably wash their hands of that Audi sourced V6 TDI & not support it long term with parts/etc. since it's a "dead end" in their product line - plus do your research on the V8 Coolant Pipes/"Horseshoe" Coolant Distributor/Adhesive connections problems, & the AH08 Recall for Snapped Cam Adjuster Bolts (2011-12 MYs).

Yes - any Cayenne will tow the same 7716+/- lbs with a 770+/- hitch load, but there are variances on the max loads between some MYs, & with the Hybrid Gas/Elec V6 (batteries reduce useful load).

However, depending on how much you plan to tow vs. use around town/highways unhitched, how much mountain driving, etc. - you may want to rule out the Gas & Hybrid V6 options, since they'll get less mpg while towing, than the gas V8 or V6 TDI, while the TDI will have the above noted problems plus higher maintenance costs.

The normally aspirated V8 is the sweet spot IMHO for a TV for power, only a tad higher mpg unhitched than the V6, while better mpg towing, nearly TDI torque without the Dieselgate downside, & better mpg unhitched or towing than the Turbo/TS models. Unfortunately, Porsche in their infinite wisdom & lack of market sense for those of us who tow, discontinued the non-turbo V8's in the CayS in the 2015 MY, & their new 3.6L Turbo V6 in the CayS 2015> is just not as effective a TV nor unhitched as was the N.A. V8 which it replaced!

However, most say to stay away from the 2003-06 MY 955 due to the plastic coolant pipes problem & a few other more costly & failure prone or shorter life parts to replace (headlight units, rear hatch struts, front upper control arms/bushings, kardan shaft/driveshaft center bearings, etc.).

Also, look out for the adhesive joints & "horseshoe" distributor & some still plastic coolant pipes in the coolant system on the 2008-10 957 (there was no 2007 - 06 Titanium Ed. filled in to Dec. 2006, then 2007 957 was introduced a 1/2 MY "early" in Jan 2007).

Likewise, there is a serious safety issue with the 2011-12.5 CayS with that snapping cam adjuster bolts problem, wherein when they snap & the cam adjuster stops working/properly, you'll lose the power boost pump for the brakes & power steering on one side cam, &/or the fuel pump on the other, not to mention having valves slamming into pistons on this interference engine once the cam adjusters go out of time spinning loose, plus those pesky broken bolts' peices running throughout the motor destrying it & possible seizing at speed on the road - ALL or ANY being a serious life & safety disaster, not to mention a $35K motor replacement! Ergo, the AH08 Recall got pushed with NHTSA by concerned Cayenne & Panamera V8s owners active on the 6SpeedOnline 958 Forum's topic on the snapped camshaft thread.

So whichever Cayenne you're thinking of, also do your research on them & get a PPI, because while the purchase cost may be comparable to other mid-sized SUV/CUVs, ther Porsche repair & parts costs, & complexities of their advanced engineering can eat you alive. So a Porsche CPO or other coverage is highly advised by most Cayenne owners (as with the other Euro SUV/CUVs covered in this thread).


Good Luck!
Tom
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[Sweendk]

I’ll add our rig as a data point for you. We have towed very little so far, but I’m comfortable with it.
Our TV is a 2016 S with the turbocharged V6; lots of power and torque. It doesn’t have air suspension. The car has massive brakes, and I like having it’s built in chassis control electronics.
The trailer is a 25FB; tongue weight lists at 825lbs, not measured yet. I have not, and likely won’t, reinforce the hitch mount as Andy’s shop recommends.
The weight distributing hitch is a BlueOx with 1000lb bars. I have sinched it up to the 8th chain link (leaving 3 below the latches). I get a little sag at that setting, but, again, am comfortable driving it.
The only negative is fuel mileage, but I expected that.
Not all on ths forum will agree with my decisions, but their mine... ha!
Good luck!
Kirk

[ChiAir]

Wow. Thanks. Some great advice on towing and Cayennes. I should add that if I go Cayenne its likely an 03-06. These cars are seriously unloved and about $5k cheaper than '08s--that pays for a lot of maintenance and repair and I figure in 5 years the resale values will be close anyway. I wonder if its a situation like the 996 where there are legit problems like the IMS but there are solutions. It looks like a number of the early 955s have aftermarket aluminum coolant lines. I'll make my way over to Rennlist and dig in.

I like your idea of the normally aspirated V8. V6 doesn't have a ton of oomph and the turbo has more than I need and they're a lot more expensive to buy.

I'll reach out to CanAm too.

Its a shame the Europeans have moved away from naturally aspirated. The turbos add complexity and often not much if any real world fuel economy.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by ChiAir

Wow. Thanks. Some great advice on towing and Cayennes. I should add that if I go Cayenne its likely an 03-06. These cars are seriously unloved and about $5k cheaper than '08s--that pays for a lot of maintenance and repair and I figure in 5 years the resale values will be close anyway. I wonder if its a situation like the 996 where there are legit problems like the IMS but there are solutions. It looks like a number of the early 955s have aftermarket aluminum coolant lines. I'll make my way over to Rennlist and dig in.

I like your idea of the normally aspirated V8. V6 doesn't have a ton of oomph and the turbo has more than I need and they're a lot more expensive to buy.

I'll reach out to CanAm too.

Its a shame the Europeans have moved away from naturally aspirated. The turbos add complexity and often not much if any real world fuel economy.

ChiAir -

There is a Hitch Hints article by Andy T on towing with a Cayenne, as well as some other articles which include Cayenne, if you look at their website & at the Canadian "RV Lifestyle" magazine website where Hitch Hints articles appear.

You're better off to wait a year for the `08 to drop, cuz that $5K will go fast. If you pay for the coolant pipe swap it's about $8K IIRC, the early headlamp combo units get too hot & fail regularly & run $2K per side, the rear hatch struts require the rear ceiling cover to come out & run $1K per side (changed on the `08> 957 & 958s) - all of which adds up to much more than your perceived savings - & that doesn't include the Kardan Shaft +/- 5K IIRC & Front Upper A-arms +/-3K per side IIRC - both are about 40-60K mile items.

Also, Porsche tends to make folks replace entire units, rather than just the wear part, as in the center bearing on Kardan shafts, & the bushings on the upper A-arms.

These items are covered in here, as well as elsewhere on the other Cayenne specific posts on AirForums, RennList & 6SpeedOnline.

Older Porches before they become collector items can be cheap to buy, but are generally very expensive to properly maintain - including even aftermarket IMS fixes. Generally a cheaper Porsche will cost you far more in the long run, than buying the better more expensive well cared for & lower mile one requiring less to maintain.

Also - absolutely get a Porsche dealer or your Porsche mechanic to do a PPI on any before you buy!!!!

We were very close to pulling the trigger on a very nice 2 owner 47K mile `06 Titanium Edition in the Iceland Silver (a Light metallic silver-blue color), when a Porsche Tech advised me of the items above, & encouraged us to look for `08> - which we are doing off-&-on when I have time.

If you insist on sticking with the 955s, try to find one where the factory coolant pipe replacement has already been done (the legal settlement closed out later owners as of Dec. `15, another reason we walked on the `06), & where the other items have been done recently.

Read up about the Cayennes & reccos from actual owners in RennList etc.


Good Luck!
Tom
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[mikextr]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

ChiAir -

There is a Hitch Hints article by Andy T on towing with a Cayenne, as well as some other articles which include Cayenne, if you look at their website & at the Canadian "RV Lifestyle" magazine website where Hitch Hints articles appear.

You're better off to wait a year for the `08 to drop, cuz that $5K will go fast. If you pay for the coolant pipe swap it's about $8K IIRC, the early headlamp combo units get too hot & fail regularly & run $2K per side, the rear hatch struts require the rear ceiling cover to come out & run $1K per side (changed on the `08> 957 & 958s) - all of which adds up to much more than your perceived savings - & that doesn't include the Kardan Shaft +/- 5K IIRC & Front Upper A-arms +/-3K per side IIRC - both are about 40-60K mile items.

Also, Porsche tends to make folks replace entire units, rather than just the wear part, as in the center bearing on Kardan shafts, & the bushings on the upper A-arms.

These items are covered in here, as well as elsewhere on the other Cayenne specific posts on AirForums, RennList & 6SpeedOnline.

Older Porches before they become collector items can be cheap to buy, but are generally very expensive to properly maintain - including even aftermarket IMS fixes. Generally a cheaper Porsche will cost you far more in the long run, than buying the better more expensive well cared for & lower mile one requiring less to maintain.

Also - absolutely get a Porsche dealer or your Porsche mechanic to do a PPI on any before you buy!!!!

We were very close to pulling the trigger on a very nice 2 owner 47K mile `06 Titanium Edition in the Iceland Silver (a Light metallic silver-blue color), when a Porsche Tech advised me of the items above, & encouraged us to look for `08> - which we are doing off-&-on when I have time.

If you insist on sticking with the 955s, try to find one where the factory coolant pipe replacement has already been done (the legal settlement closed out later owners as of Dec. `15, another reason we walked on the `06), & where the other items have been done recently.

Read up about the Cayennes & reccos from actual owners in RennList etc.


Good Luck!
Tom
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Tom, I own an 06 Cayenne and its had most of the repairs you have listed. Are you quoting in US dollars? Your numbers are much higher than actual prices. Even if you have the work done at the Beverly Hills dealership, every repair you listed would be about 1/4 the cost you're quoting here. Not saying Cayennes are cheap to maintain, but your figures have no bearing in reality. Also, 955 Cayennes are easy to work on for the mechanically inclined. Plenty of parts and technical guides available online.

[dasams]

Originally Posted by mikextr

Tom, I own an 06 Cayenne and its had most of the repairs you have listed. Are you quoting in US dollars? Your numbers are much higher than actual prices. Even if you have the work done at the Beverly Hills dealership, every repair you listed would be about 1/4 the cost you're quoting here. Not saying Cayennes are cheap to maintain, but your figures have no bearing in reality. Also, 955 Cayennes are easy to work on for the mechanically inclined. Plenty of parts and technical guides available online.

I also have an '06 Cayenne S and concur. I had the cardan shaft replaced before we hit the road and my local Porsche dealer did it for ~ $1500 (mileage was 54,000 and it was still within spec). The coolant pipes were replaced under warranty at the 4 yr mark so I don't know the actual cost. So far, no issues with the headlamps or front control arms. The hatch struts were also replaced at 4 yrs under warranty and the replacement struts have failed. 'Failed' means that they won't hold up the hatch when they are cold but they work great when it's warm out. The P dealer offered to replace them for $750 but I declined. It's not a big deal.

Mileage is 82,000 and we've been full timing for the past 15 months and have traveled 28,000 miles. This includes a loop around the western states, a five week trip down the Baja penensula (2,000 mi round trip, lots of nasty pot holes) and a 3-1/2 month trip to Alaska that included the 1,400 mi Alaska Highway and it's frost heaves.

For us, the Cayenne has towed like a champ but YMMV. GL, Dave

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by mikextr

Tom, I own an 06 Cayenne and its had most of the repairs you have listed. Are you quoting in US dollars? Your numbers are much higher than actual prices. Even if you have the work done at the Beverly Hills dealership, every repair you listed would be about 1/4 the cost you're quoting here. Not saying Cayennes are cheap to maintain, but your figures have no bearing in reality. Also, 955 Cayennes are easy to work on for the mechanically inclined. Plenty of parts and technical guides available online.

Mike,

I was working from memory from 2015 & earlier quotes, so may have muddled some.

The headlamps & hatch struts should've been noted for both sides - not each side as I mis-wrote - confirmed when I just looked back at my notes on an `06 T.E. from 2015.

So if you have actual quotes, please post them for ChiAir's info, along with the dates, by dealer or indy, or if parts only & done by self - so that they have an idea of it.

The coolant pipes were quoted as $8K P&L by Monterey Porsche nearest to the seller in Salinas - so I convinced him it would be best for his sale to get it done himself as 2nd owner under the legal settlement where he originally bought it at Niello Porsche in Rocklin, which he did do after some haggling (I'd decided to move on to 957/958). It included dropping the engine/trans, & some ancillary work such as replacing the water pump while it was out.

I couldn't find the Kardan Shaft or Upper A-arm quote notes to verify.

A note on the front upper A-arms is that it is NOT the A-arms which need replacing - but the Bushings - but that Porsche doesn't supply USA dealers with the tool(s) to replace just the bushings, so they require replacement of the entire dang arm in their infinite wisdom!

Similarly with the Kardan Shaft - it's the center bearing which wears/fails, but they replace the entire shaft. In that case they also replace both the front & rear seals at the trans & rear differential - so that price would include those as well.

I don't think that my prices were 25% of what I stated - but possibly less, plus my mis-quoted each side, for both sides, as noted above.

I'm sure that just the parts & cheaper labor from either an Indy or a reasonable P-dealer might come in less than my numbers which I recalled, but they always add the "while we're in there" P&L costs. It's like doing the water pump whenever you have the timing belt or chain off a car - might as well do that then, since you've already paid the labor to pull the front cover off - & in most cases on a Porsche - you're also dropping the engine!

My point to ChiAir, is that the most expensive Porsche will be the cheapest Porsche to buy, due to their very high parts & labor costs, & the resulting killer costs of deferred maintenance.

Cheers!
Tom
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