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Old 11-01-2021, 09:01 AM   #1441
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Madeira , OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
SoÖ
...
My question is this. When I pulled the Bambi with our 2019 Q7, I noticed that reverse gear seemed to be geared a bit high for backing the trailer up. I mean high numerically here.
With any of our trucks, there was always plenty of power to put the Bambi anywhere I wanted to. I never gave it a thought. The first time I backed the Bambi uphill, I was shocked at how different it was. Has anyone else noticed this? Is it an issue when boondocking in odd areas?
Just curiousÖ
2021 SQ7 here and never noticed any issues backing up. I haven't tried on anything like the S curve uphill, but really can't see it being an issue due to the very high torque these vehicles have (568ft-lb delivered at relatively low rpm).
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Old 11-19-2021, 02:54 PM   #1442
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WhewÖbeen lurking and reading for a few weeks. Great info!

TV: 2018 Audi Q7 3.0T, steel springs, 1367 cargo cap, 7700/770
TT coming soon: Flagstaff Micro Lite 22FBS (5132 lbs, 634HW)
Weights are from website, not real world.
No Airstream (yet)

Iím upgrading from a 19í TT with no WDH and after reading all the posts still undecided on the hitch.

Hensley: Sydney@Hensley recommends the Swift Arrow. Wonít all that weight of the hitch be too much for the Q-ship? They sound pretty fussy to hitch and unhitch but I could learn to deal with that.

Eaz-Lift: Often recommended by Andy. The Recurve looked nice but I see Andy says itís a bad design so looking at standard design. Do the bars need to be disconnected to be able to back TT into site? Recommendation on model for me?

Anderson:Looks light and simple. Whatís not to like?

And will I need to reinforce the hitch? If I still lived in Michigan Iíd just go to CanAm, no question. But Iím in the Seattle area. If I need reinforcement where do I go?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 11-25-2021, 05:01 PM   #1443
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Response to myself.

I watched Andy’s video on setting up a WDH and it answered some of my questions. Now I believe I’ll go with an Eaz-Lift Elite 800# hitch, sway controls, and a custom shank from CanAm.

-Jim
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Old 11-26-2021, 08:02 AM   #1444
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Sounds like you are set.

I've been pulling my 23' CB a lot lately with my 2018 Q7 (w steel springs). Pretty much same weight as your trailer. When I bought the trailer, the seller threw in a e2 hitch and I've been very happy with that. Strongly recommend using some WD hitch vs. not -- huge difference in ride and steering control vs not using the WD hitch.

There is a sticker on the hitch receiver itself that says is works for 7700/770 with or without WD. So I take as meaning no reinforcement needed for my setup.

You will need to add a brake controller. I had audi drop down the connector under the dash then I installed a curt. Curt sells an adapter to connect to the VW/Audi connector. DM me if you need more info.
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Old 11-26-2021, 11:22 AM   #1445
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Here's a good video by Andy Thompson from the Spring 2021 virtual RV conference, that's worth watching by anyone towing - whether AS, big box, 5th wheel, boat, etc.

It's more an overall presentation on towing, TVs, TTs, etc., than Jim's one on WD set-up noted in his post above, but does cover when & why you'd need or want WD.

Hour+ total - with first half as his presentation & last half Q&A.



Get your popcorn or Jiffy Pop!
Tom
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Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
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Old 11-26-2021, 11:48 AM   #1446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meallen View Post
Sounds like you are set.

I've been pulling my 23' CB a lot lately with my 2018 Q7 (w steel springs). Pretty much same weight as your trailer. When I bought the trailer, the seller threw in a e2 hitch and I've been very happy with that. Strongly recommend using some WD hitch vs. not -- huge difference in ride and steering control vs not using the WD hitch.

There is a sticker on the hitch receiver itself that says is works for 7700/770 with or without WD. So I take as meaning no reinforcement needed for my setup.

You will need to add a brake controller. I had audi drop down the connector under the dash then I installed a curt. Curt sells an adapter to connect to the VW/Audi connector. DM me if you need more info.
Meallen -

That 7700/770 hitch sticker is pretty much the same for all Cayenne, Touareg & Q7 since the early 2000's, but has nothing to do with the need to reinforce the hitch or not. At +/- $2K to buy & install a factory hitch, you won't want to replace that because the WD twisted & damaged the hitch.

My guess is that at 4,761 lbs listed empty wt. & 6,000 lbs GTWR you'll probably need to reinforce the hitch, based on the reccos by Andy T to other Q7 owners on here.

Andy T. will know, & he can send you info to have it done locally in TX.

See that video I posted above, & email to Andy T on his recco for your Q7 & hitch reinforcement. Weigh your trailer & hitch HW wet & loaded as you would go off camping/traveling to give him the weights, if you can do so where you are in Allen TX.

Another brake controller option for Jim & others is the Tekonsha RF which mounts on the trailer A-Frame, with the handheld controller plugged into a 12v-round/cig-lighter receptacle in the cabin. It works the same as their Tek Prodigy, Curt, etc. under dash controllers, but has several advantages. I've had one since we got our vintage kin Avion in 2012.

The advantages to the Tek-RF over dash mounted controllers are that the controller is on the trailer if/when you use another TV, the controller is easily at hand - rather that reaching for the boost button on/under the dash for the boost button in an emergency (all controllers should have a handheld controller to keep at hand IMHO), & you don't have to muck-up the dash of a nice car which the next non-towing buyer may not appreciate.

PS - Jim & others may still need that Curt adapter, so go ahead & post a link for them, since the link I had is dead - I got mine from eTrailer, but they're sold many places.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
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Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
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Old 11-26-2021, 02:07 PM   #1447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWtoad View Post
WhewÖbeen lurking and reading for a few weeks. Great info!

TV: 2018 Audi Q7 3.0T, steel springs, 1367 cargo cap, 7700/770
TT coming soon: Flagstaff Micro Lite 22FBS (5132 lbs, 634HW)
Weights are from website, not real world.
No Airstream (yet)

Iím upgrading from a 19í TT with no WDH and after reading all the posts still undecided on the hitch.

Hensley: Sydney@Hensley recommends the Swift Arrow. Wonít all that weight of the hitch be too much for the Q-ship? They sound pretty fussy to hitch and unhitch but I could learn to deal with that.

Eaz-Lift: Often recommended by Andy. The Recurve looked nice but I see Andy says itís a bad design so looking at standard design. Do the bars need to be disconnected to be able to back TT into site? Recommendation on model for me?

Anderson:Looks light and simple. Whatís not to like?

And will I need to reinforce the hitch? If I still lived in Michigan Iíd just go to CanAm, no question. But Iím in the Seattle area. If I need reinforcement where do I go?

Thanks in advance!
PNWtoad -

Take a look at the Andy T. video that I posted above, then contact him by email (or call him or PM on here) about your Q7 TV & TT specifics & future AS. He's sent members on here the info to do the same hitch mods locally, as they do in their shop in ONT. So you can take their CanAm info to a local Seattle area trailer/hitch shop to do the mods.

In that video Andy covers many of the questions you & others have on TVs, TTs, WD/AS hitches, tweaks/set-up of TT & TV, etc. Most on here don't talk about tires/wheels & other things Andy/CanAm does to properly set-up folks rigs for best towing. BTW he really likes the C/T/Q7 & BMW, MBZ SUVs for towing, & covers when & why the hitch reinforcement is needed in that video.


Trailer Options:

You'd almost be better to go straight to a lighter & more aerodynamic gently used Airstream a few years old (there is a classifieds link at the top of the page if curious), but it sounds like you've already ordered the Flagstaff Micro Lite 22FBS. But it will be taller with a higher Center of Gravity (CG) & more frontal area with flat sides - than will a far more aerodynamic AS Bambi, Sport or other AS model in a similar size.

Otherwise you have other options for better pricing, since trailers suffer the same "new drive-off-the-lot value loss" as do new cars/trucks, so you can usually save 20-30% by buying a nice used one.

We have a vintage kin "silver twinkie" 1960 Avion T-20 (20'-6" L & 2680 lbs 275 HW dry/empty/no-options per factory - probably 3000-3500 wet/loaded & 542 lbs with 160 lb Hensley Cub mounted). I could probably get it packed up to 4500-5000 if I loaded enough stuff.

Vintage Airstreams & Kin are generally lighter than 2000> AS models of same sizes, & have the advantage of being open to all of the Vintage Trailer Rallies - in addition to normal camping, if you like those activities. Check some out online, then go walk around one/some near you & ask to look inside some you like (pre-COVID they had public open-houses, which will eventually return, but you can still ask).

Nicely restored AS plus Avion, Silverstreak, Airflyte, Curtis, etc. vintage kin competitors are out there for good prices compared to newer used & new, comparably equipped to newer 2000> AS, with all the flatscreen TV & DVD, microwave, etc. amenities (we have it all), as in a newer AS or your Swifty, & the as good or better quality/build vintage kin are usually a bit better value.

There are also several new & recent year used AS models in a comparable size & weight to your Flagstaff, but all will be far more aerodynamic, with lower CG, & much more stable to tow - & can probably be had at a comparable price in a nice used model a few years old.

The AS Sport line ended in 2019, but you can get their brochures & specs from the AS website archives here (google for the other Bambi etc models' specs/plans) -

https://www.airstream.com/owners/doc...ocuments=sport

So if a new tall, high-floor box trailer is your option due to price - don't put money down without checking the other used AS & Vintage AS & Kin options too first. We actually looked at some early to mid-2000s AS 16' & 22' Sports, 16' & 19' Bambies, & some other 19-24' models which we liked, before we decided to go the Vintage route & looked at many Vintage AS first, before finding our Avion. So keep an open mind.


WD/AS Hitches:

Hensley makes both the Arrow for up to 10,000/1,000 & Cub up to 6,000/600, while ProPride makes the similar to Arrow rating - with the Arrow & PP topping out in the high $2,000 - $3,000+ all in & installed.

I think that both Hensley ("Swift") & PP offer the chain torsion adjustment as a cheaper option, but frankly one of their other advantages is that you can easily & infinitely adjust the torsion bars with their nicer adjustment screw up/down jacks & a ratchet wrench or cordless drill/socket - which those with bad shoulders/arms or older truly appreciate.

Other advantages on the plus side beyond the easier & more precise jack torsion adjustment, are that:

- once mounted the Hensley Cub or Arrow (& PP) stays on the A-frame full time - so you don't need to dis-mount & remount the hitch-head & torsion bars etc. at each stop, so you only need to remove & stow or store the stinger (as you would the tow-bar/ball on other WDs) - & not the whole hitch head assembly;

- & you don't need to remove the torsion bars to back up nor for dips/driveways;

- you get much tighter turning radius both forward & backing, than with other WD hitches;

- the H & PP hitch design effectively moves the pivot point several feet forward, ergo the tighter turning & better handling;

- although heavier than other non-PPP (Pivot Point Projection = H & PP) hitches, the WD distributes the 160 lbs Cub & 180 lbs Arrow (PP similar) of the mounted hitch-head to the front TV axle & 1-2-3 trailer axles equally - so you're not overloading the rear GAWR limit;

- the PPP design eliminates sway by limiting it to only parallel to the TV movements in crosswinds & bow waves & wakes from less aerodynamic 18-wheeler/bus/Class A RV passing at high speed;

- from my experience the Cub (& other H & PP models) give a far more comfortable, smooth & less stressful ride, as well as less work setting-up, mounting/dismounting, hitching & adjusting WD, and easier to get into tight spaces at home or campsites (I have to pull-out & back from a narrow 36' street with parking both sides, into/out of an 8' W driveway with obstructions & walls within 15" - 24" of that 8' drive, which has a 10% sloe the 1st 20'+) - than would other WD/AS hitches.

We've had the lighter weight rating Hensley Cub since 2013, which is night-&-day comfortable compared to "bare ball" either with or especially without TV built-in AS. I don't find it to be a hassle using it, once you figure out that you need to adjust the hitch head on the trailer to match the "Stinger" in ALL 3 axis. DOH!

The Hensley Cub is good for up to 6000/600 trailers & is in the $1500-2000 range with the chain link adjusted model perhaps a bit less, while the Swift Arrow is the down-priced Arrow ($2500-3000+) without the WD adjusting jacks, using chains - but still in the $2000-3000 range. ProPride is in the same range as the Arrow.

So if your AS dream is in the smaller size up to 25' & under 6000 GTWR & 600 HW - then the Hensley Cub with adjusting Jacks is the best bet for you. AS offers 16' & 19' Bambi & 16' & 22' Sport trailers with lighter weight, as are some other 19-23-25' models - so check their Specs.


Brake Controllers:

See my comments for you & others in my post above replying to Meallen.


Q7 as TV:

The Audi Q7/Q8 & Cayenne 3.0 SC & T engines from about 2015> now have within a few HP & TQ as the original early & mid-2000s 5.0L & 4.2L normally aspirated V8's - so they perform about as well as the early V8s (even if the newer TT V8s in the Cayenne GTS/T/TS & Audi SQ7/SQ8/RSQ7/RSQ8 have huge HP & TQ now). Ergo, anything an earlier Q7 4.0-4.2L V8 could tow, you should be fine with your 3.0T V6.

However - Aerodynamics plays a bigger part than the trailer's length or weight in TV towing capacity, capability & performance - so your Q7 3.0 & any TV will perform much better with an Airstream or other aerodynamic trailer, but the Flagstaff is tall & flat sided with only moderate aerodynamics form the rounded front (but better that flat or small slope angle trailers).

Andy T. covers this in that video that I linked in the post above, plus you can email/PM/call him or his staff for which trailers he'd recco for you with your Q7. He may or may not recco that Forest River Flagstaff, or something else.

You can also check around at local AS & RV dealers to see what nice used late model AS models they may have available, as well as at the Airstream classifieds on here, and at Tin Can Tourists, Vintage Camping Trailer Magazine, etc. classifieds, as well as going to vintage trailer rallies for vintage trailer options - if that option is of any interest to you & your spouse &/or family.

So you've got a great TV to start with, & Happy Hunting on all other aspects!

Good Luck!
Tom
///////
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Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
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Old 11-27-2021, 04:18 PM   #1448
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Thanks Tom!

Reinforcement:
I’ve reached out to Andy about hitch reinforcement but haven’t heard back. I’m collecting reinforcement images and will talk to a good local hitch installer/fabricator I know.

Brake Controller
The Audi dealer installed the Curt Triflex. It seems to have worked well enough (no braking drama) but is mounted close to the firewall. I’m very interested in the Tekonsha RF mostly for the remote. Is it worth replacing the Curt?

Hitch
Do dealers have issues moving trailers with a Hensley type hitch around the yard? For service I normally see a forklift with a ball in the front scooting around. How do they move it with the Hensley? Not the biggest concern, of course, just another issue. Because of you and Andy I bounce back and forth between the Hensley and Eaz-Lift nearly daily.

Trailer
I’ve been towing a smaller Flagstaff (Epro 19FD) with no problems. I didn’t use a WDH as I didn’t think it was allowed on an Audi but have been newly educated via this forum. I understand what you are saying about AS but I was very happy with the Flagstaff other than moving the Murphy bed too often and not enough storage. I wasn’t sure my wife would enjoy the RV life but so far, so good. We retire next year and will do more camping. We’ll keep an AS in mind as a future investment.

-Jim
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Old 11-28-2021, 02:06 PM   #1449
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Jim - see my comments inserted into your message below.

QUOTE - Thanks Tom!

Reinforcement:
Iíve reached out to Andy about hitch reinforcement but havenít heard back. Iím collecting reinforcement images and will talk to a good local hitch installer/fabricator I know.

In the meantime some of the earlier posts in this now very long topic had photos of the C/T/Q7 reinforcement that you can use as a starting point. There is also one in that Andy T. video presentation that I linked, but I don't know the specific vehicle of that one.


Brake Controller
The Audi dealer installed the Curt Triflex. It seems to have worked well enough (no braking drama) but is mounted close to the firewall. Iím very interested in the Tekonsha RF mostly for the remote. Is it worth replacing the Curt?

I don't know that I'd replace your new Curt at this point (unless you have some problems), but you may want to add the Tekonsha RF whenever you get an Airstream, then just use that RF instead (Curt can stay installed or removed & sell off used). I've been towing with Enterprise Truck Rental 3/4 tom Ford/Ram puck-ups in the interim, & my RF works fine even with their built-in/installed controllers in place but inactive.

BTW - Enterprise Truck Rental is the back-up TV source for emergencies, when main TV is in the shop, etc., because they're all fully set-up for towing with 4-pin/7-way combo electrical connectors & now usually 2.5" Square Receivers (so make sure to ask them to put the 2.5" to 2" adapter in the rental truck) on their 3/4 tons. I think that their 1/2 ton pick-up rentals are still 2" square - but I rarely see any in our local ETR.



Hitch
Do dealers have issues moving trailers with a Hensley type hitch around the yard? For service I normally see a forklift with a ball in the front scooting around. How do they move it with the Hensley? Not the biggest concern, of course, just another issue. Because of you and Andy I bounce back and forth between the Hensley and Eaz-Lift nearly daily.

Dealers & Hitch Shops - since AS/TT dealers must have customers using Hensley/PP hitches, I'd think that they'd have a 2" receiver to accept the Stinger. My local trailer & hitch shop also uses a forklift, but I just leave the Hensley Stinger with them & they also have a 2" square receiver attachment for the forklift. The trick is to remember!

Hensley vs. Eaz-Lift/etc. - Back in 2012-13 we were towing with rented Nissan Pathfinder 4.0L V6/AT mid-size SUVs with NO TV built-in AS as a test run for Cayenne with something of similar size but rentable (note that our 20' Avion is single axle). We did a bare-ball trip with a Pathfinder from Orange/SoCal to the Pismo Vintage Rally because I was late ordering the Hensley Cub, so it wasn't installed yet - and that was an "E-Ticket Ride" over 55-60+/- mph! The next trip the Cub was mounted, similar rented Pathfinder & it was so smooth & stable that I kept having to catch myself creeping up to 70-75! So the difference was night & day!

For me - all of those other benefits in my prior post outweigh the Eaz-Lift & others being only a bit less costly than a Cub. The bigger cost difference is when you have to jump to the >6000 lb trailers to the Hensley Arrow/PP - but IMHO well worth the added "insurance" & comfort towing - especially if my wife may need to tow.

Andy talks about Hensley vs Eaz/etc in the Q&A section of that video I posted above, so look at that & then maybe do the phone call to better discuss the hitch options. Andy said that they used to recco the Hensley a lot more, & mainly do less now due to the limit of WD transfer with the newer & heavier HW trailers around now.

So you said that you're close to retirement, & that's when our bodies get even more weak, sore & tired - and not having to hoist around heavy WD hitch ball mounts, hitch-heads & torsion bars etc. all the time is a huge advantage to we old folk. Same for using the easy to crank torsion adjustment jacks - instead of hoisting up chain-links.

Along those lines - if you guys can be comfortable with a 16-25'-ish AS with max GTWR of 6000/600 of the Cub - then you'll also be dealing with hollow 2" square steel tube stingers - instead of solid steel bar stingers for the Arrow & PP.

I mean really!? How much torture should us old guys have to endure just to go camping!!??



Trailer
Iíve been towing a smaller Flagstaff (Epro 19FD) with no problems. I didnít use a WDH as I didnít think it was allowed on an Audi but have been newly educated via this forum. I understand what you are saying about AS but I was very happy with the Flagstaff other than moving the Murphy bed too often and not enough storage. I wasnít sure my wife would enjoy the RV life but so far, so good. We retire next year and will do more camping. Weíll keep an AS in mind as a future investment.

You may find more stability issues with the longer Flag-22', but even if not, a test tow with a comparable size/weight AS will show you the TV workload & mpg, stability, & other advantages of the AS & Vintage Kin lower & more aerodynamic trailers with your Q7.

If you have any friends with one, after the winter weather is past, see if you can take it for a day trip with them east from Seattle up & over the Cascades & loop south or north & back over west, then return on I-5 on the flat for the full range. I think that you'll see the difference, & it'll be a good reference for the future if you do end up wanting to get an AS or other Silver Twinkie.

Do also consider the full range of new, used late model & Vintage AS, as well as Vintage Kin. There are also some build quality differences between the pre-early-2000 AS being better than the more recent mid-2000> ones from what my AS owner friends & acquaintances.

Also, what got my wife really interested in her "Glamping" in a trailer & to get our Avion, was going to a Vintage Trailer Rally & meeting/talking with some of the folks there, & what all fun stuff they do at the rallies. They're mostly in the Spring & Fall outside of the peak summer season, & the RV parks generally give a pretty good break for the rally weekend rates, as well as for those who want to add a day or days before &/or after the actual weekend rally (usually F-S-S).

You could find when & where some will be in the PNW, then book at a nearby campground/RV park, then drive/walk over during the Saturday once everyone is set up & at ease, & just talk to folks - especially those with trailers of interest. You can also see what the range of vintage trailers & RVs are around, and which best suits your lifestyle, & whenever if/when you're ready - you'll also have contacts for getting one - if that's what you want to do later on.

Not only is it about the vintage trailers, but also about all the period nostalgia set-ups, outfits, activities & people. You can see some of it at the Vintage Camper Trailers' website, as well as a list of many of the rallies nationally.

https://www.vintagecampertrailers.com/

Just don't blame me if it sparks too much of a fire with your wife!


-Jim - end quote////

Cheers!
Tom
///////
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Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
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