Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by mikextr

Thanks for the informative article. I was blown away to learn that Thomas Aquinas and John Duns Scotus were able to foresee the Cayenne's exceptional performance as a tow vehicle over 700 years ago! This confirms what I have thought all along. Magnificent!

You’re welcome, and bravo to those who dare to tow with non-trucks! So I ponder this - I tow our 25’ FB Safari with our MDX. It doesn’t bother me that some people tow the same travel trailer with a truck. Why does it bother those who tow a 25’ AS with a truck that I tow it with our MDX?

[mojo]

Why? Because unless you have weighed your trailer tongue weight with a proper scale, you may find that your 25' AS is over the published tongue weight. And thus will exceed the MDX hitch weight limit even with a WD hitch. Have you weighed yours?

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by mojo

Why? Because unless you have weighed your trailer tongue weight with a proper scale, you may find that your 25' AS is over the published tongue weight. And thus will exceed the MDX hitch weight limit even with a WD hitch. Have you weighed yours?

You are correct, I am over the hitch weight limit. I should have prefaced that Can Am RV did the setup and reinforced my receiver. Also use the Hensley Arrow.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by SteveNdebbie

You’re welcome, and bravo to those who dare to tow with non-trucks! So I ponder this - I tow our 25’ FB Safari with our MDX. It doesn’t bother me that some people tow the same travel trailer with a truck. Why does it bother those who tow a 25’ AS with a truck that I tow it with our MDX?

SteveNDebbie -

Your MDX escapades are legendary!

People on AirForums with the new Airstreams seem to forget that they & their Vintage Kin Silver Beauties - or Silver Twinkies if you prefer - were designed to be towed by CARS - the family sedan, station wagon, convertible. They were targeted for the well off middle class folks who could afford an upscale travel trailer to tow with their family car - not necessarily with a big truck.

Here's a 1960 Avion sales brochure photo showing what very well could be our actual trailer (based on original equipment & it being the #2 T20 off the line) in tow by a 1960 Oldsmobile Super 88 wagon, & all of the other trailers bigger & smaller in that brochure & their ads - with nary a pickup in sight, although a few International Harvester & Chevy Suburbans used in some ads.


.


Lucy & Desi's Mercury/Lincoln Drop-top would've been perfect with an Airstream, vs. the 40 foot park model for their classic "The Long, Long Trailer" movie.

Airstream even promoted their lightweight & easily towable trailers with a PR photo shoot & ad campaign of a guy on a bike towing the AS!


... I wonder what that bike's HW limit is? ;-)
.


And the participants in the Avion Travelcades, Airstream Caravans, etc. were primarily towing with cars, with only a few trucks & early SUVs (Suburban & IH) in the photos & ads of them. Their target market was auto owners - not truck owners.

While Airstreams have gained weight in the recent years since 2000 - especially under Thor - from both added options, tank capacities, etc.; as well as primarily from moving away from the light weight marine plywood & cabinetry, etc. - with the higher weight OSB & other general construction materials now being used. However, they are still light enough to be towed by tow capable autos.

So why the internecine contentions over truck vs other tow vehicles!?

Bottom line - tow with what you want, so long as you stay within that vehicle's tow ratings etc. - and stop knocking other folks TVs.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

SteveNDebbie -

Your MDX escapades are legendary!

People on AirForums with the new Airstreams seem to forget that they & their Vintage Kin Silver Beauties - or Silver Twinkies if you prefer - were designed to be towed by CARS - the family sedan, station wagon, convertible. They were targeted for the well off middle class folks who could afford an upscale travel trailer to tow with their family car - not necessarily with a big truck.

Here's a 1960 Avion sales brochure photo showing what very well could be our actual trailer (based on original equipment & it being the #2 T20 off the line) in tow by a 1960 Oldsmobile Super 88 wagon, & all of the other trailers bigger & smaller in that brochure & their ads - with nary a pickup in sight, although a few International Harvester & Chevy Suburbans used in some ads.


.


Lucy & Desi's Mercury/Lincoln Drop-top would've been perfect with an Airstream, vs. the 40 foot park model for their classic "The Long, Long Trailer" movie.

Airstream even promoted their lightweight & easily towable trailers with a PR photo shoot & ad campaign of a guy on a bike towing the AS!


... I wonder what that bike's HW limit is? ;-)
.


And the participants in the Avion Travelcades, Airstream Caravans, etc. were primarily towing with cars, with only a few trucks & early SUVs (Suburban & IH) in the photos & ads of them. Their target market was auto owners - not truck owners.

While Airstreams have gained weight in the recent years since 2000 - especially under Thor - from both added options, tank capacities, etc.; as well as primarily from moving away from the light weight marine plywood & cabinetry, etc. - with the higher weight OSB & other general construction materials now being used. However, they are still light enough to be towed by tow capable autos.

So why the internecine contentions over truck vs other tow vehicles!?

Bottom line - tow with what you want, so long as you stay within that vehicle's tow ratings etc. - and stop knocking other folks TVs.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Legendary...hmmm...is that good or bad?[emoji16] I will take that as a compliment - thanks Tom! I guess that’s what happens when you’re 50-year-old newbies. We didn’t know the conventional wisdom or beliefs. We did our research, trusted the experts and paid more attention to advice based on experience and knowledge than those based on opinions and biases. It’s all a learning curve and I need to be open to new ideas and be okay with being wrong. Nothing ventured nothing gained [emoji2957].

Thank you for your posts, Tom. Very knowledgeable! We have a 2006 Safari - what year did Airstream start using OSB? Also after looking at the new models in 2017 the quality of construction of the 2006 we found seemed better.

Here are a couple photos from the past I found on FLICKR





Steve

[Andrew T]

Airstreams don't have OSB anywhere. The floors were OSB from 1984 until 1992 (if my memory serves). At the time it seemed like a good idea. One piece no squeaks it was supposed to be water resistant.

Most of the weight difference between older and newer Airstreams is that everything today is standard equipment.

When you look a brochure for a 1979 the weight doesn't include, stabilizing jacks, awnings, 2 door fridge, larger LP tanks, Air-conditioning, etc. If you weight a fully optioned 1979 it weighs about the same as a new flying cloud.

The older ones are rounder and narrower so a little more aerodynamic so this is what most people experience when say they tow easier.

Andy

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Andrew T

Airstreams don't have OSB anywhere. The floors were OSB from 1984 until 1992 (if my memory serves). At the time it seemed like a good idea. One piece no squeaks it was supposed to be water resistant.

Most of the weight difference between older and newer Airstreams is that everything today is standard equipment.

When you look a brochure for a 1979 the weight doesn't include, stabilizing jacks, awnings, 2 door fridge, larger LP tanks, Air-conditioning, etc. If you weight a fully optioned 1979 it weighs about the same as a new flying cloud.

The older ones are rounder and narrower so a little more aerodynamic so this is what most people experience when say they tow easier.

Andy

Andy -

What is AS using for the floors now?

Before we got our vintage kin 1960 Avion T20, we were looking at a then new 2011-12 Airstream 19' Bambi Sport, and the AS dealer rep told us that it had OSB floors for "better stability". He may have been mistaken, but that's what he told us then.

I think that in whichever OSB timeframe it was, AS was also using some OSB in the heavier structural panels for cabinetry & perhaps some walls. Otherwise, they seem to be using composites in the thinner cabinetry sheathing as well.

Yes, the fully optioned trailers now will be heavier too, and some of that goes into the vintage trailers of all makes too - but for some reason they are not coming in quite as heavy as their modern kin.

Our 21'-6" L 1960 Avion T20 was 2680 lbs without options/empty/dry - whereas it's only about 3500 now wet & loaded, & with 2x 30 lb LP tanks, Hensley Cub, upgraded Water & Black Tanks (+/- 15% larger with the resto, but water switched to poly tank & water pump, from 20 gal aluminum pressure tank & air pump) - but still no grey water tank (yet), AC & flat panel TV - all other galley & full bath items were standard.

Whereas that 2011-12 19' Bambi Sport was 3600+/- lbs empty/dry. I don't see where there is another 1000 lbs of optional equipment in an 18" shorter new Bambi.

Also, our Avion is taller, wider & less sloped than the vintage Airstreams to which you referred (similar profile to the new AS), but it tows a lot easier & smoothly - than did that shorter 2011-12 Bambi 19' L - which was the narrower 8' W body. Avions also had the 3rd center frame rail, so that may contribute to more stability, at a small weight penalty.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by SteveNdebbie

Legendary...hmmm...is that good or bad?[emoji16] I will take that as a compliment - thanks Tom! I guess that’s what happens when you’re 50-year-old newbies. We didn’t know the conventional wisdom or beliefs. We did our research, trusted the experts and paid more attention to advice based on experience and knowledge than those based on opinions and biases. It’s all a learning curve and I need to be open to new ideas and be okay with being wrong. Nothing ventured nothing gained [emoji2957].

Thank you for your posts, Tom. Very knowledgeable! We have a 2006 Safari - what year did Airstream start using OSB? Also after looking at the new models in 2017 the quality of construction of the 2006 we found seemed better.

Here are a couple photos from the past I found on FLICKR
Attachment 389987

Attachment 389988


Steve

I just meant that you've posted a lot in this topic about the MDX, & have said that you're our "resident MDX expert".

I don't know the time frame for using OSB, & Andy gave his recollection, & replied that we'd been told that there was OSB in a new 2011-12 that we looked at purchasing.

I think that the older Airstreams in the early 2000s were better build quality, than the more recent years - especially judging by the number of new AS owners posting in Air Forums about problems with their new AS's & appliances, AC, etc.

Also, it seems to be a necessity to carry a rivet gun & rivets with a new AS, according to many in the SoCal WBCCI with whom I've spoken at their annual Pismo Rally, which is next door to the Pismo Vintage Trailer/RV Rally that we attend. I don't know if your `06 has a habit of popping rivets, but our 1960 Avion hasn't popped any until 50 years old, & that's now only on some belly pans.

My wife & I also preferred the interior colors & styling of the 2000-2010-ish nautical themed ASs (Tommy Bahama maybe?), which was not available in that 2011-12 that we seriously looked at.

Your 1972 AS photos with 4 new Olds 88 4 dr Hardtops remind me of my 2nd car - an earlier 1969 Pontiac Ventura 4 dr Hardtop that I bought from my parents, but which I no longer have anymore, although I still own & drive my #3, #4 & #5 cars. But I might buy it back as a classic 60's car to tow our 60's Avion to shows, like the Aussie guy below.

The Ventura was an upscale Catalina 121" wheelbase (Bonneville was 125" wb), & mine had the 400 cid 2 bbl with 3 spd AT & front disc brakes, like this:



But mine was in this color green (Mom's color) with a gold interior:



Here's a guy in Australia recently towing with one:



If I did like the Aussie guy, then I could maybe be the 1969 Pontiac TV guru on here!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

I just meant that you've posted a lot in this topic about the MDX, & have said that you're our "resident MDX expert".



I don't know the time frame for using OSB, & Andy gave his recollection, & replied that we'd been told that there was OSB in a new 2011-12 that we looked at purchasing.



I think that the older Airstreams in the early 2000s were better build quality, than the more recent years - especially judging by the number of new AS owners posting in Air Forums about problems with their new AS's & appliances, AC, etc.



Also, it seems to be a necessity to carry a rivet gun & rivets with a new AS, according to many in the SoCal WBCCI with whom I've spoken at their annual Pismo Rally, which is next door to the Pismo Vintage Trailer/RV Rally that we attend. I don't know if your `06 has a habit of popping rivets, but our 1960 Avion hasn't popped any until 50 years old, & that's now only on some belly pans.



My wife & I also preferred the interior colors & styling of the 2000-2010-ish nautical themed ASs (Tommy Bahama maybe?), which was not available in that 2011-12 that we seriously looked at.



Your 1972 AS photos with 4 new Olds 88 4 dr Hardtops remind me of my 2nd car - an earlier 1969 Pontiac Ventura 4 dr Hardtop that I bought from my parents, but which I no longer have anymore, although I still own & drive my #3, #4 & #5 cars. But I might buy it back as a classic 60's car to tow our 60's Avion to shows, like the Aussie guy below.



The Ventura was an upscale Catalina 121" wheelbase (Bonneville was 125" wb), & mine had the 400 cid 2 bbl with 3 spd AT & front disc brakes, like this:







But mine was in this color green (Mom's color) with a gold interior:







Here's a guy in Australia recently towing with one:







If I did like the Aussie guy, then I could maybe be the 1969 Pontiac TV guru on here!



Cheers!

Tom

///////

Peter of PB_NB designated me the title of the “MDX Towing Expert” so I will take ownership [emoji5]. This winter I did tow a 6x12 ft. U-haul loaded with belongings from our daughter and son-in-law’s apartment in Washington DC to Ohio using a ball hitch [emoji79]but the MDX did great. I should add this to my MDX towing thread.

We have popped about 6 rivets in 3 years. Our ‘06 Safari is a 75th Anniversary edition and is basically the Flying Cloud. Attachment 390086

Attachment 390087


Maybe I should have kept my third vehicle - a 1977 Plymouth Gran Fury Brougham. Here is what it looked like

12 MPG but could fit everything from my college dorm into that vehicle.

Steve

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by Andrew T

Airstreams don't have OSB anywhere. The floors were OSB from 1984 until 1992 (if my memory serves). At the time it seemed like a good idea. One piece no squeaks it was supposed to be water resistant.

Most of the weight difference between older and newer Airstreams is that everything today is standard equipment.

When you look a brochure for a 1979 the weight doesn't include, stabilizing jacks, awnings, 2 door fridge, larger LP tanks, Air-conditioning, etc. If you weight a fully optioned 1979 it weighs about the same as a new flying cloud.

The older ones are rounder and narrower so a little more aerodynamic so this is what most people experience when say they tow easier.

Andy

Thanks Andy. Interestingly, extra weight in our trailer doesn’t affect our towing. Actually it added stability. I really enjoyed your video of you towing the 30’ AS with the Caravan. We had a Caravan once. Yours sounded like a race car [emoji41]

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by SteveNdebbie

Peter of PB_NB designated me the title of the “MDX Towing Expert” so I will take ownership [emoji5]. This winter I did tow a 6x12 ft. U-haul loaded with belongings from our daughter and son-in-law’s apartment in Washington DC to Ohio using a ball hitch [emoji79]but the MDX did great. I should add this to my MDX towing thread.

We have popped about 6 rivets in 3 years. Our ‘06 Safari is a 75th Anniversary edition and is basically the Flying Cloud. Attachment 390086

Attachment 390087


Maybe I should have kept my third vehicle - a 1977 Plymouth Gran Fury Brougham. Here is what it looked likeAttachment 390088

12 MPG but could fit everything from my college dorm into that vehicle.

Steve

The pics of our ‘06 that didn’t post🤷*♂️

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by SteveNdebbie

Peter of PB_NB designated me the title of the “MDX Towing Expert” so I will take ownership [emoji5]. This winter I did tow a 6x12 ft. U-haul loaded with belongings from our daughter and son-in-law’s apartment in Washington DC to Ohio using a ball hitch [emoji79]but the MDX did great. I should add this to my MDX towing thread.

We have popped about 6 rivets in 3 years. Our ‘06 Safari is a 75th Anniversary edition and is basically the Flying Cloud. Attachment 390086

Attachment 390087


Maybe I should have kept my third vehicle - a 1977 Plymouth Gran Fury Brougham. Here is what it looked likeAttachment 390088

12 MPG but could fit everything from my college dorm into that vehicle.

Steve

Hi Steve -

Nice looking AS interior! Any pix of the full MDX+AS rig?

What a hoot - that looks the same or very close green color on your Gran Fury Brougham I'll bet!

Pontiac called it Verduro Green Metallic, & my Mom's favorite color was green - whereas I'm a blue guy.

I too had my `69 Ventura during college & it held most of what I had in my Studio apartment, but in multiple trips - even the steel drafting table broken down into parts fit in that cavernous trunk.

Sometimes I think that I'd buy it back if it was in decent shape, but it wasn't tow optioned because it was sold new as an executive car for the FedMart Corp. in San Diego, then my Dad bought it used at 2 years old (Ray Price was CEO but it was not his car, he later started Price Club).

Pontiac did have a range of towing options available on them, so I'd have to recreate the various HD components for that towing option if I did it - not to mention whatever other drivetrain & body work necessary at this late date after 52 years.

My other ideas were to either find my parents' 1967 Chevy C20 Camper Special 1/2 ton pick-up set up for towing & truck-bed camper (as we used it) - or to find a nice 1960 Olds Super 88 wagon as in that 1960 Avion sales brochure ad that I posted a few back - but preferably in blue, & it would have the same upgrade & resto/renno issues at 61 years old.

The gas on any of them would be a killer at 5-10 or 7-12 mpg - about the same as the current Toyota Sequoyah/Tundra & Land Cruiser 5.7L V8s today.

I had my Ventura during undergrad college during the first 1973 fake oil crisis - when gas went from $0.27 gal to $2.50 in a week, & then we had to wait in huge lines, limited to 10 gals, but only every other day by license plate even-odd last digit.

That's why I went hunting a more fun & higher mpg car for a 21 year old recent college grad, & ended up with my #3 used Porsche 914-2.0 "914S" which I still own, but is awaiting completing its resto/renno/repairs to be drivable. My 914 got 29-35 mpg freeway, & Orange County to San Francisco on one tank of gas, has plenty of room in front & rear trunks totaling 16 cf for2-3 week trips with 2, as well as tent camping out of it. It's not a TV - just a fun little sports car!


Originally "Light Ivory" (white), but in my last 1980-83 rolling resto "Antracite" grey metallic - will go back to original color in resto.



Topic Title Note - the 914 was one of many VW + Porsche collaborative efforts &/or JVs - with the Cayenne, Touareg & Audi Q7 being one of the more recent ones. In both cases of the 914 & Cayenne - those programs saved Porsche from bankruptcy or worse.

So in a way - we wouldn't have Porsche around today to build Cayennes since 2002-03, & this voluminous topic itself wouldn't exist - if not for the 126,000+ 914s sold in 1969-76 - vs. about 20,000+/- 911/912E/930 all together during that time!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Hi Steve -

Nice looking AS interior! Any pix of the full MDX+AS rig?

What a hoot - that looks the same or very close green color on your Gran Fury Brougham I'll bet!

Pontiac called it Verduro Green Metallic, & my Mom's favorite color was green - whereas I'm a blue guy.

I too had my `69 Ventura during college & it held most of what I had in my Studio apartment, but in multiple trips - even the steel drafting table broken down into parts fit in that cavernous trunk.

Sometimes I think that I'd buy it back if it was in decent shape, but it wasn't tow optioned because it was sold new as an executive car for the FedMart Corp. in San Diego, then my Dad bought it used at 2 years old (Ray Price was CEO but it was not his car, he later started Price Club).

Pontiac did have a range of towing options available on them, so I'd have to recreate the various HD components for that towing option if I did it - not to mention whatever other drivetrain & body work necessary at this late date after 52 years.

My other ideas were to either find my parents' 1967 Chevy C20 Camper Special 1/2 ton pick-up set up for towing & truck-bed camper (as we used it) - or to find a nice 1960 Olds Super 88 wagon as in that 1960 Avion sales brochure ad that I posted a few back - but preferably in blue, & it would have the same upgrade & resto/renno issues at 61 years old.

The gas on any of them would be a killer at 5-10 or 7-12 mpg - about the same as the current Toyota Sequoyah/Tundra & Land Cruiser 5.7L V8s today.

I had my Ventura during undergrad college during the first 1973 fake oil crisis - when gas went from $0.27 gal to $2.50 in a week, & then we had to wait in huge lines, limited to 10 gals, but only every other day by license plate even-odd last digit.

That's why I went hunting a more fun & higher mpg car for a 21 year old recent college grad, & ended up with my #3 used Porsche 914-2.0 "914S" which I still own, but is awaiting completing its resto/renno/repairs to be drivable. My 914 got 29-35 mpg freeway, & Orange County to San Francisco on one tank of gas, has plenty of room in front & rear trunks totaling 16 cf for2-3 week trips with 2, as well as tent camping out of it. It's not a TV - just a fun little sports car!


Originally "Light Ivory" (white), but in my last 1980-83 rolling resto "Antracite" grey metallic - will go back to original color in resto.



Topic Title Note - the 914 was one of many VW + Porsche collaborative efforts &/or JVs - with the Cayenne, Touareg & Audi Q7 being one of the more recent ones. In both cases of the 914 & Cayenne - those programs saved Porsche from bankruptcy or worse.

So in a way - we wouldn't have Porsche around today to build Cayennes since 2002-03, & this voluminous topic itself wouldn't exist - if not for the 126,000+ 914s sold in 1969-76 - vs. about 20,000+/- 911/912E/930 all together during that time!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Tom,
Here are a few picsAttachment 390191Attachment 390192Attachment 390193

We really like our 2011 MDX, but in the next couple years we will be looking to replace it. We have 145K miles on it which is why I tuned into this thread. Acura had moved the MDX away from the rugged SUV that came with a towing package standard including a transmission cooler. We may be looking at used Cayennes, Audi Q7s.

We went to the Cleveland Auto Show in February 2020 which seems like a lifetime ago. Really liked the interior of the Volvo XC90.

She liked this SUV


We could get to California in no time!

[SteveNdebbie]

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by SteveNdebbie

Attachment 390217
Attachment 390218

Nice looking rig Steve! The MDX had very nice styling in that model era.

It's too bad that the move of many manufacturers is away from fully capable SUVs - towards more of a "tall station wagon" concept - as with Acura's MDX.

In addition to that Alpha SUV - you also may want to look at the Cayenne S E-Hybrids 2015-18 or 2019-21>, since they'd have the 3.0L Supercharged V6 with plug-in hybrid totaling more HP & TQ than the more expensive Cayenne S 3.0L or 2.9L Twin Turbo V6. Then you can use it around town for errands etc. without gas, in EV mode & charge at home &/or destination.

They come in both "Coupe" & traditional SUV roof lines starting in 2020 MY, but IMHO the "coupe" defeats the cargo space purpose of an SUV. The Coupe would have the similar roofline to that Alpha that you folks liked.

2019 & later Cayennes all will have factory back-up cameras, but you have to check that they are optioned with it for pre-2019 Cayennes, or else get a compatible aftermarket back-up camera added to an early one.

NAV-TV was recommended to me by a former Porsche dealer Tech now with his own shop down around Columbus near-ish to you, as the best plug-n-play camera upgrade that your OH P-dealers recco & install.

https://navtv.com/products/make/4/mo..._2018_usa.html
^ - - Just change the model year in the drop-down box at the above link for whichever is applicable.

And Porsche is still rating all Cayennes for 7716 lbs trailers & 770 HW (USA vehicles), and you can get their factory hitch installed after the fact even if not so optioned new, with the same hitch-n-go capabilities - ditto for all Audi Q7/Q8 & SQ7/SQ8 (their V8s).

Generally it's not too expensive to add the camera or the factory hitch at about $1000-2000+/- each, but I found that doing both was too much on top of the vehicle cost.

While I was originally looking for a nice, well kept, low miles, non-salty roads, normally aspirated V8 Cayenne S 2008-10 or 2011-14 - I think that we'll be looking at the CayS E-hybrid whenever we restart our TV search after travel gets back to normal-ish after COVID. Right now we're barely putting any miles on our 2 cars, so no sense in adding another vehicle to mostly sit at this time.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[SteveNdebbie]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Nice looking rig Steve! The MDX had very nice styling in that model era.

It's too bad that the move of many manufacturers is away from fully capable SUVs - towards more of a "tall station wagon" concept - as with Acura's MDX.

In addition to that Alpha SUV - you also may want to look at the Cayenne S E-Hybrids 2015-18 or 2019-21>, since they'd have the 3.0L Supercharged V6 with plug-in hybrid totaling more HP & TQ than the more expensive Cayenne S 3.0L or 2.9L Twin Turbo V6. Then you can use it around town for errands etc. without gas, in EV mode & charge at home &/or destination.

They come in both "Coupe" & traditional SUV roof lines starting in 2020 MY, but IMHO the "coupe" defeats the cargo space purpose of an SUV. The Coupe would have the similar roofline to that Alpha that you folks liked.

2019 & later Cayennes all will have factory back-up cameras, but you have to check that they are optioned with it for pre-2019 Cayennes, or else get a compatible aftermarket back-up camera added to an early one.

NAV-TV was recommended to me by a former Porsche dealer Tech now with his own shop down around Columbus near-ish to you, as the best plug-n-play camera upgrade that your OH P-dealers recco & install.

https://navtv.com/products/make/4/mo..._2018_usa.html
^ - - Just change the model year in the drop-down box at the above link for whichever is applicable.

And Porsche is still rating all Cayennes for 7716 lbs trailers & 770 HW (USA vehicles), and you can get their factory hitch installed after the fact even if not so optioned new, with the same hitch-n-go capabilities - ditto for all Audi Q7/Q8 & SQ7/SQ8 (their V8s).

Generally it's not too expensive to add the camera or the factory hitch at about $1000-2000+/- each, but I found that doing both was too much on top of the vehicle cost.

While I was originally looking for a nice, well kept, low miles, non-salty roads, normally aspirated V8 Cayenne S 2008-10 or 2011-14 - I think that we'll be looking at the CayS E-hybrid whenever we restart our TV search after travel gets back to normal-ish after COVID. Right now we're barely putting any miles on our 2 cars, so no sense in adding another vehicle to mostly sit at this time.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Thank for the info Tom. Actually the Alpha pics were just for fun. My wife is the one who mentioned the Cayenne to me. We bought our MDX in 2014 and she was the one who found it. Prior to that we had a 2004 Toyota Sienna that we bought new and put 200K miles on in 10 years running around our kids. She finally was able to ditch the minivan and picked the MDX (her vehicle). She liked that it had a towing package and wouldn’t you know that, in the next three years, we would be towing a utility trailer with 30 hay bales for our two horses (had a barn built for them on our land to save her driving back and forth to care for them) and became inspired to look for a travel trailer for our 30th Anniversary (new empty nesters - but then COVID-19 and some birds have returned :sigh:

So we did not buy the MDX to tow a trailer, but we were able to make it work with the help of Andy and the folks at CanAm. It also fits her well (4’10”) so that she and I can trade off the towing on longer trips . The experience has been great, but now looking ahead to our next TV for us to use for multiple purposes.

We wonder, of all the vehicles out there, what AWD vehicle (we have a steep gravel driveway) would Andy recommend as the best TV for a 25’ FB AS (care to comment Andy [emoji846]?)?

So far that CayS E-hybrid sounds great! Thanks again Tom.

P.S. Really like your retro Porsche. We had an ‘83 Honda CRX (she learned to drive standard)
and a 1994 Acura Intergra GSR 4 door we bought new and drove until 2014 when the underbody was rusted to the edge of the wheels falling off

[Andrew T]

Hi Steve the new MDX tows even better with the 10 speed transmission. It doesn’t need a cooler because it generates very little heat.

A Cayenne or Q7 are wonderful SUV’s though. The sleeper is the Durango which is a Mercedes platform with the Hemi and 8 speed ZF. The new one has the SRT suspension available on the RT model with 20x10” rims etc.

[Andrew T]

Here’s a link to it.

https://moparinsiders.com/28234-2/

[Bier]

Just thought I'd ask based on the recent comments, but would either a 2020 SQ7 or Cayenne E-Hybrid be better as a tow vehicle? Is it purely personal taste or does one or the other have a technical advantage that is meaningful (not just a cool feature)?

Looking at getting either a GT 23 or 25 FBT for my wife and I and don't currently have an appropriate TV. I see pros/cons with both of the vehicles that are my current leading candidates and both seem to be very similar in price.

On the Porsche side I like the idea of electric/hybrids for around town use, seems to potentially have more payload capacity than SQ7, and would think the handling would be slightly better than SQ7 (purely subjective opinion based on former porsche ownership). Downside is you fall back on a V6 when no juice able to help.

On the SQ7 side it has more HP/torque, 4-wheel steering for maneuverability, better brakes, and 3rd row in case we ever need it. Downsides that stick out to me are fuel econ and smaller gas tank.

Personally would be happy with either I think, and if it is strictly personal preference then cool, but wanted to check before I lock myself in.

Thanks

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by SteveNdebbie

We wonder, of all the vehicles out there, what AWD vehicle (we have a steep gravel driveway) would Andy recommend as the best TV for a 25’ FB AS (care to comment Andy [emoji846]?)?

So far that CayS E-hybrid sounds great! Thanks again Tom.

P.S. Really like your retro Porsche. We had an ‘83 Honda CRX (she learned to drive standard) Attachment 390280
and a 1994 Acura Intergra GSR 4 door we bought new and drove until 2014 when the underbody was rusted to the edge of the wheels falling offAttachment 390281

Thanx Steve.

See my comments to Andy for the link to his article on towing with a Cayenne (TDI in that case, pre-DieselGate).

So your 83 CRX is an earlier twin to what is now one of our son's 2 cars - an `88 Civic Hatchback DX, which is still fun to drive like the CRX & my 914. It's been in the family since new - first as my wife Jana's youngest brother's car when he was in college, then to her next youngest brother, then we rescued it from 7-8 years of storage while he was overseas and passed away in Taiwan while teaching there.

My son & I did a rolling renovation/resto on the Honda, then I drove it back to him when he was posted at Ft. Drum NY, but he's now in Colorado Springs since 2014, & his 2nd car is a Tesla S 75D.

See pic below. Of course we did restore it to stand upright, but for some reason this website likes to turn my pic on its side.

Cheers!
Tom
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