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Old 08-01-2020, 06:50 AM   #941
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When towing we have noticed that the DEF usage increases by a factor of 10. In normal operation we use about a Litre of DEF per 1000km of travel. While towing we will use about 1L per 100km.
2014 Touareg TDI with the Emissions fix.
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Old 08-01-2020, 04:43 PM   #942
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Originally Posted by TBDub View Post
I know this is an AS group, but this is the best place to get TDI questions answered. Just drove from Ohio to Leadville, CO pulling my SOB (Rockwood Mini Lite Camper) with my 2013 T-reg. Loaded it weighs around 3,800 lbs. I topped off the AdBlu and have driven 1,800 miles. I had to climb from Denver to Eisenhower tunnel. Running 2,500 to 3,000 RPM going up and down the other side. Temp went from 220 to 230 or 235 several times. When I got close to Leadville I got a AdBlu in 1,000 miles. The next time i start it says 900. I have never, never gone through AdBlu this fast in around the 70,000 miles I've driven it. Did the heat and high RPM cause the usage? When you get a warning how much is left in the tank?



TBDub
We had the same experience on our first trip with our AS 23 FB, which is ~6,000 lbs, and 2013 Treg - in the middle of Nevada. Not fun. Our average Adblu use when towing is about 1,200 mi./gal. The Treg sucks it up much faster when revs go over about 2500, so you can watch your RPM and the instantaneous gas consumption display to manage Adblu consumption somewhat. Adblue consumption is proportional to gas consumption, not sure if it's linear. Finally, the VW Adblue level warnings given in miles are totally worthless, especially when towing. Ours has dropped 100 miles in 10 miles driven. My practice is to top up before a trip and get a 2.5 gal. of BlueDef after 3,000 mi.

I'm not sure what effect altitude may have on consumption, but that may be a factor as well. Happy trails from a former Coloradan!
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Old 08-01-2020, 06:59 PM   #943
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1,200 miles per adblue gallon would be fantastic for us. Towing a 28í Landyacht with a 2016 CD. Pretty much maxed out on gross everything. Filled the DEF tank in Grand Junction 3 weeks ago. From there to Rosevelt National Forest to Fort Collins to Medicine Bow to Black Hills to Bad Lands SD to the Colorado side of Medicine Bow and back to the Aspen Valley. Have t bothered to figure out the total miles, but Iím guessing less than 1,500. Had to refill the 5 gallon DEF tank before getting back home. It was barking 400 miles, and I know that really means about 100 miles. Refilling DEF is not a big deal, except Porsche made it as difficult as possible to do so. My BMW DEF filler is right beside the fuel filler. The CD?... get everything out of the back, raise the spare tire hatch, either remove the spare tire or fight the cap, then dump a pint of DeF into the spare tire well as you attempt to insert the DEF nozzle in the hole. Beyond annoying.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaJim View Post
We had the same experience on our first trip with our AS 23 FB, which is ~6,000 lbs, and 2013 Treg - in the middle of Nevada. Not fun. Our average Adblu use when towing is about 1,200 mi./gal. The Treg sucks it up much faster when revs go over about 2500, so you can watch your RPM and the instantaneous gas consumption display to manage Adblu consumption somewhat. Adblue consumption is proportional to gas consumption, not sure if it's linear. Finally, the VW Adblue level warnings given in miles are totally worthless, especially when towing. Ours has dropped 100 miles in 10 miles driven. My practice is to top up before a trip and get a 2.5 gal. of BlueDef after 3,000 mi.

I'm not sure what effect altitude may have on consumption, but that may be a factor as well. Happy trails from a former Coloradan!
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Old 08-01-2020, 07:00 PM   #944
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My math shows about 300 miles per gallon of DEF fluid.
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:45 AM   #945
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Buy an expensive container of AdBlue from Porsche/VW/Audi [1.5 l?], cut off the bottom after use, and use as a locking funnel for DEF in subsequent fillings.
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Old 08-02-2020, 05:51 PM   #946
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Originally Posted by KSA63 View Post
When towing we have noticed that the DEF usage increases by a factor of 10. In normal operation we use about a Litre of DEF per 1000km of travel. While towing we will use about 1L per 100km.
2014 Touareg TDI with the Emissions fix.
Kevin
KSA63,

Thank you. This really helps me to understand that towing impacts AdBlu as much as mileage.

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Old 08-02-2020, 05:58 PM   #947
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Originally Posted by SeaJim View Post
We had the same experience on our first trip with our AS 23 FB, which is ~6,000 lbs, and 2013 Treg - in the middle of Nevada. Not fun. Our average Adblu use when towing is about 1,200 mi./gal. The Treg sucks it up much faster when revs go over about 2500, so you can watch your RPM and the instantaneous gas consumption display to manage Adblu consumption somewhat. Adblue consumption is proportional to gas consumption, not sure if it's linear. Finally, the VW Adblue level warnings given in miles are totally worthless, especially when towing. Ours has dropped 100 miles in 10 miles driven. My practice is to top up before a trip and get a 2.5 gal. of BlueDef after 3,000 mi.

I'm not sure what effect altitude may have on consumption, but that may be a factor as well. Happy trails from a former Coloradan!
Great. Now I don't think the sensor or system failed. I drove almost half of Kansas in 7th and sometimes 6th gear. In Colorado it was the same until we got to the mountains. Then it was dropping further and running 3,000 rpm almost constantly. Since I was downshifting going down from the passes I was also running 3,000 rpm.

I am getting AdBlu tomorrow and will carry some with me. I brought coolant for the trip but the AdBlu is sitting in the garage.

Thx,

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Old 08-02-2020, 06:00 PM   #948
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Originally Posted by HappyHapgood View Post
1,200 miles per adblue gallon would be fantastic for us. Towing a 28í Landyacht with a 2016 CD. Pretty much maxed out on gross everything. Filled the DEF tank in Grand Junction 3 weeks ago. From there to Rosevelt National Forest to Fort Collins to Medicine Bow to Black Hills to Bad Lands SD to the Colorado side of Medicine Bow and back to the Aspen Valley. Have t bothered to figure out the total miles, but Iím guessing less than 1,500. Had to refill the 5 gallon DEF tank before getting back home. It was barking 400 miles, and I know that really means about 100 miles. Refilling DEF is not a big deal, except Porsche made it as difficult as possible to do so. My BMW DEF filler is right beside the fuel filler. The CD?... get everything out of the back, raise the spare tire hatch, either remove the spare tire or fight the cap, then dump a pint of DeF into the spare tire well as you attempt to insert the DEF nozzle in the hole. Beyond annoying.
Great. Now I don't think the sensor or system failed. I drove almost half of Kansas in 7th and sometimes 6th gear. In Colorado it was the same until we got to the mountains. Then it was dropping further and running 3,000 rpm almost constantly. Since I was downshifting going down from the passes I was also running 3,000 rpm.

I am getting AdBlu tomorrow and will carry some with me. I brought coolant for the trip but the AdBlu is sitting in the garage.

Thx,

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Old 08-02-2020, 06:03 PM   #949
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Buy an expensive container of AdBlue from Porsche/VW/Audi [1.5 l?], cut off the bottom after use, and use as a locking funnel for DEF in subsequent fillings.
Thanks. I have the filler and more AdBlu sitting in my garage. I will refill and buy spare.

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Old 08-03-2020, 10:21 AM   #950
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High AdBlue "consumption" could be broken line

I started experiencing very high AdBlue consumption last spring 2019 after I had the recall work done on our 2015 Q5 TDI. (I even posted about it but no one responded ). I do live at 10K' elevation and notice that both AdBlue and fuel consumption increase (more than linearly) at higher elevations.

Then last fall as I was towing our AS to Grand Junction to store it for the winter, the AdBlue level was dropping like crazy. Went from 900 mi warning to 100 mi warning in less than 200 miles. Took the Q5 in for service at Audi Denver and they found that I had a leak in the DEF line. The Audi service manager had never seen this problem before and I had to wait for them to order the part as they never thought to keep this in stock. I wonder if the line was broken during the recall work.

I have not added DEF since, but I have only towed less than 1,000 miles. I have three boxes of DEF sitting in my garage that will probably take me years to go through.

So for those of you getting crazy high AdBlue consumption, you might want to bring your vehicle in to the dealer and have the line checked. It is a free check and repair as it is part of the recall extended fuel/exhaust warranty.
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Old 08-04-2020, 10:40 AM   #951
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I started experiencing very high AdBlue consumption last spring 2019 after I had the recall work done on our 2015 Q5 TDI. (I even posted about it but no one responded ). I do live at 10K' elevation and notice that both AdBlue and fuel consumption increase (more than linearly) at higher elevations.

Then last fall as I was towing our AS to Grand Junction to store it for the winter, the AdBlue level was dropping like crazy. Went from 900 mi warning to 100 mi warning in less than 200 miles. Took the Q5 in for service at Audi Denver and they found that I had a leak in the DEF line. The Audi service manager had never seen this problem before and I had to wait for them to order the part as they never thought to keep this in stock. I wonder if the line was broken during the recall work.

I have not added DEF since, but I have only towed less than 1,000 miles. I have three boxes of DEF sitting in my garage that will probably take me years to go through.

So for those of you getting crazy high AdBlue consumption, you might want to bring your vehicle in to the dealer and have the line checked. It is a free check and repair as it is part of the recall extended fuel/exhaust warranty.
No indication of a leak. Just a lot of high RPM driving and AdBlu consumption. Went to Larry H Miller VW Audi in W. Colfax in Denver and they top off AdBlu for free. In Ohio you would pay at a dealer. Bought one jug and small bottle to carry with me.

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Old 08-08-2020, 05:11 PM   #952
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Hi all, have really appreciated this thread. I am struggling with a decision and need your help. We are planning to upgrade from towing a T@B 320s teardrop trailer (~2400lbs) with a 2018 Toyota 4-runner. Ultimately we are hoping to get a Flying Cloud, probably 23FB, but can't afford it right now (and don't want to deal with the sellers market at the moment). For the tow vehicle, we are down to a decision between Audi Q7 with tow package and air suspension, or Ram 1500. I would prefer an SUV as a daily driver, but I am having some serious concerns about towing with it. I get that many of you have had CanAm do mods and they seem very knowledgable and serious. I have been in touch with them and their enthusiasm for towing with the Q7 is impressive. However, the fact that Audi specifically FORBIDS the use of WDH is of serious concern to me. I feel that if we were to get in an accident, we'd be very vulnerable to legal liability. So, what I am trying to figure out is: Can I tow up to 6000# using the Audi without WDH? Is there a way to at least mount a sway bar with the tiny/short hitch ball setup they recommend? Does the air suspension obviate some of the need for WDH and/or sway control?
Thanks in advance for your thoughtful advice.
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Old 08-08-2020, 06:12 PM   #953
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Originally Posted by carriemd View Post
Hi all, have really appreciated this thread. I am struggling with a decision and need your help. We are planning to upgrade from towing a T@B 320s teardrop trailer (~2400lbs) with a 2018 Toyota 4-runner. Ultimately we are hoping to get a Flying Cloud, probably 23FB, but can't afford it right now (and don't want to deal with the sellers market at the moment). For the tow vehicle, we are down to a decision between Audi Q7 with tow package and air suspension, or Ram 1500. I would prefer an SUV as a daily driver, but I am having some serious concerns about towing with it. I get that many of you have had CanAm do mods and they seem very knowledgable and serious. I have been in touch with them and their enthusiasm for towing with the Q7 is impressive. However, the fact that Audi specifically FORBIDS the use of WDH is of serious concern to me. I feel that if we were to get in an accident, we'd be very vulnerable to legal liability. So, what I am trying to figure out is: Can I tow up to 6000# using the Audi without WDH? Is there a way to at least mount a sway bar with the tiny/short hitch ball setup they recommend? Does the air suspension obviate some of the need for WDH and/or sway control?
Thanks in advance for your thoughtful advice.

I just traded a 2019 Audi Q7 with air suspension when we updated to a GT 325 from a 16í Bambi.
Iíve towed the Bambi with an F-150, a Ram 2500 and the Q7.
We used a ppp hitch for most of the towing.
Without question, the 2500 was the most care free experience. In all honesty we only used the Audi for about 600 miles of towing and it was fine but... it never felt as comfortable as the bigger truck.
Iíd been emailing Andy looking for help but apparently he decided that I was t worth answering.
In the end, we traded our 16 for a new 25 and Iíve gone back to what worked the best for us...
I have a new truck and I am sure I can find a happy towing experience here.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:27 PM   #954
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Removing WD Bars Before Off Roading

Can Am installed their receiver on my 2013 Treg TDI. The RV dealer installed an Equalizer WD hitch that I have used for two years on paved roads in the midwest. Before going to Colorado to do some serious boondocking on forests roads I was in touch with Andy. He advised to remove the WD arms before going off road which is the right thing to do. Problem is the Can Am receiver drops clearance to about 6.5" when you remove the arms it drops to about 3". I am continually bottoming out on the high points on the rutted forest roads, the rain ditches and potholes, along with hitting the larger rocks and boulders.

What have you folks who drive in Natl Forests and Bureau of Land Mgt lands done to counter act this. Can you lift the Tregs suspension?

Thanks,

TBDub
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:25 PM   #955
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Cayenne Diesel. Equalizer WDH. Pretty much all we do is boondocking on public land. We do not disconnect our bars when going off-road. We do a LOT of off-roading. So far no issues, and we have the hitch and suspension checked about every 3000 miles. Trailer is around 7,700 lbs. We have not modded the hitch to the body, but I do I have shortened shank. Handles like a dream, but who knows, maybe one day Iíll take it to the dealer and theyíll tell me something is bent. We have about 20,000 towing miles so Iím not too worried. Itís still under warranty.
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Old 08-09-2020, 03:13 PM   #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carriemd View Post
Hi all, have really appreciated this thread. I am struggling with a decision and need your help. We are planning to upgrade from towing a T@B 320s teardrop trailer (~2400lbs) with a 2018 Toyota 4-runner. Ultimately we are hoping to get a Flying Cloud, probably 23FB, but can't afford it right now (and don't want to deal with the sellers market at the moment). For the tow vehicle, we are down to a decision between Audi Q7 with tow package and air suspension, or Ram 1500. I would prefer an SUV as a daily driver, but I am having some serious concerns about towing with it. I get that many of you have had CanAm do mods and they seem very knowledgable and serious. I have been in touch with them and their enthusiasm for towing with the Q7 is impressive. However, the fact that Audi specifically FORBIDS the use of WDH is of serious concern to me. I feel that if we were to get in an accident, we'd be very vulnerable to legal liability. So, what I am trying to figure out is: Can I tow up to 6000# using the Audi without WDH? Is there a way to at least mount a sway bar with the tiny/short hitch ball setup they recommend? Does the air suspension obviate some of the need for WDH and/or sway control?
Thanks in advance for your thoughtful advice.
The physics of towing 23 foot 6000 lb trailer with a Q7 safely and stably at US highway speeds absolutely requires sway control support. You can drive slowly, shore up the receiver mount and get a hitch with strong to excellent sway control, or choose a more capable vehicle.

As others have indicated, the hitch mount is a tad weak and could use some support and that is one of two reasons Audi recommends against high tongue weights and weight distribution. The other is to protect against oversteer and jackknife. If you set things up correctly you can make this setup stable and safe. In addition to moddest WD with excellent sway control, you will want to stiffen up the rear tires with 7 or more psi over required for the actual load. If your present tires can't do that, you'll have to upgrade the tires also. You will also want watch the hitch shank length. Some are longer than ideal. You will want yours as short as possible.

Air suspension is not a substitute for Sway control but does address some of the issues WD covers. In the case of the Audi you don't want much WD for cornering stability so the air bags will help you a lot with both the geometry and ride comfort that extra WD would normally address. The passive sway control only measures perform poorly and won't protect you so avoid them.

Hope this helps.
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Old 08-10-2020, 09:52 AM   #957
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Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
The physics of towing 23 foot 6000 lb trailer with a Q7 safely and stably at US highway speeds absolutely requires sway control support. You can drive slowly, shore up the receiver mount and get a hitch with strong to excellent sway control, or choose a more capable vehicle.

As others have indicated, the hitch mount is a tad weak and could use some support and that is one of two reasons Audi recommends against high tongue weights and weight distribution. The other is to protect against oversteer and jackknife. If you set things up correctly you can make this setup stable and safe. In addition to moddest WD with excellent sway control, you will want to stiffen up the rear tires with 7 or more psi over required for the actual load. If your present tires can't do that, you'll have to upgrade the tires also. You will also want watch the hitch shank length. Some are longer than ideal. You will want yours as short as possible.

Air suspension is not a substitute for Sway control but does address some of the issues WD covers. In the case of the Audi you don't want much WD for cornering stability so the air bags will help you a lot with both the geometry and ride comfort that extra WD would normally address. The passive sway control only measures perform poorly and won't protect you so avoid them.

Hope this helps.
FYI - To be clear for the readers here - the Cayenne/Touareg/Q7 & their other SUVs' Tow Package does in fact have built in electronic sway control primarily using the brakes (opposite braking) - as do the later era F150/250 & some other import & Big 3 Pick-ups.

The P/V/A models detect the trailer being hitched & automatically switch it on - along with the other tow mode features (engine, trans, braking, suspension, etc. modes); whereas most of the others require you to switch on tow mode with a button on the AT Column shifter or on the dash.

However, I agree that a belt-&-suspenders approach is best to use a good WD/AS hitch, as I do in our case with our Hensley Cub, since the Air Suspension doesn't shift/equalize the load of HW between the axles of the TV & TT in order to level the TV properly - so why not add the Anti-Sway/AS with the WD hitch you pick!?

Hope this helps too.

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 08-10-2020, 10:27 AM   #958
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Thanks Tom I am aware of the stability software. I suppose I could have been more clear on that. I like your approach as the active and passive controls complement each other and your rationale seems sound. Also I agree they these vehicles will respond positively to some modest WD as well. Better is always well, better!
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:59 AM   #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carriemd View Post
Hi all, have really appreciated this thread. I am struggling with a decision and need your help. We are planning to upgrade from towing a T@B 320s teardrop trailer (~2400lbs) with a 2018 Toyota 4-runner. Ultimately we are hoping to get a Flying Cloud, probably 23FB, but can't afford it right now (and don't want to deal with the sellers market at the moment). For the tow vehicle, we are down to a decision between Audi Q7 with tow package and air suspension, or Ram 1500. I would prefer an SUV as a daily driver, but I am having some serious concerns about towing with it. I get that many of you have had CanAm do mods and they seem very knowledgable and serious. I have been in touch with them and their enthusiasm for towing with the Q7 is impressive. However, the fact that Audi specifically FORBIDS the use of WDH is of serious concern to me. I feel that if we were to get in an accident, we'd be very vulnerable to legal liability. So, what I am trying to figure out is: Can I tow up to 6000# using the Audi without WDH? Is there a way to at least mount a sway bar with the tiny/short hitch ball setup they recommend? Does the air suspension obviate some of the need for WDH and/or sway control?
Thanks in advance for your thoughtful advice.
Hi Carrie -

Welcome to the group.

Your question about Audi "forbidding" WDH is the 4th or 5th time so far just this year that this has come up for the VW, Audi & Porsche cousins - and BMW & MBZ too to a lesser extent.

This question on here reminds me of the perennial question about hot weather vapor lock in Porsche 914s that always recurs multiple times every Spring/Summer on our 914world.com Forum (less so this year due to CV-19 restrictions). Everybody on there knows about it, it gets covered over & over again, & people keep asking the same question without looking back to the other answers, or doing a search on the subject.

The 914world search function isn't great, so we usually suggest using Google or Bing etc. searches to find the appropriate 914world posts/topics - and maybe that is also an issue here on AirForums with their website's search function.

The short story is that in fact the Cayenne, Touareg, Q7 & their other SUVs/CUVs are all rated for WD Hitches - as evidenced by their Factory Option USA market hitch receivers with tags showing both WD & "bare ball" tow ratings. When the Mfgrs. do their USA DOT based SAE testing for tow ratings, they have to & do test both with & without WDH to get those ratings on the factory hitch tags. And their TSBs, Factory Service Manuals, etc. documentation for dealerships do have factory tow ratings with WDH for the non-Euro/UK markets as well.

In the European Countries & the UK WDHs have been outlawed since the 1960's-70's in order to protect their own trailer mfgrs. from the bigger/heavier USA trailers coming over there & using WDH to tow them with European Cars/Vans/Trucks. That is one reason why the Euro Hitches have that goofy looking gooseneck design - they don't have to be WDH rated.

Unfortunately, they don't bother to update their owner's manuals with a proper towing section for the non-Euro/UK markets where WDH is allowed and for which their vehicles are in fact rated.

Since US-DOT doesn't require that, they just translate the manuals as-is with the Euro WDH Prohibition, nor do they properly train their dealers & service techs. Of course, most other import & Big 3 dealers don't train their staff on towing issues & capabilities either.

So please look back in the recent posts &/or do a search for the prior posts on this WDH question if you need more info. IIRC there was a post a couple of years ago where a properly trained Porsche Tech had posted the Factory Dealer Service Manual Page with the WDH Tow Rating for the Cayenne, when others were having similar concerns.

It's too bad this Euro TV subject isn't a Sub-Forum where we could have "nailed threads/topics" at the top of the list that folks could look up these types of common questions, but I don't think that there is any interest from the management here to do so.

Since they must SAE test and US-DOT rate their USA SUVs for both WDH & non-WD towing - they cannot legally refuse warranty coverage (not counting any CanAm mods), nor can insurance &/or lawyers deny coverage nor claim fault or negligence/etc. for using a WDH or WD/AS hitch - according to the CA Lawyer whom I'd consulted on the matter (this doesn't mean that any of them may not try to do so, forcing you to fight it). However, they can do so if you exceed the factory load ratings for any of the TV's &/or Trailer's build - including Payload, total, combined & axles wts., HW, etc. - so you'll need to do your research, set-up & loading to conform with all of those ratings for whatever TV & TT combo you have now & in the future.

As to your other questions above - especially if you don't need a 3 row 6-7 seater - I'd say that you can also look at the Cayenne, Touareg, BMW X5 up, MBZ GLE up, Land Rover, Toyota Land Cruiser & Sequoyah & Lexus GX/LX (the GX is a V8 powered 4-Runner & tows a bit more, while LX is their more street friendly Land Cruiser), Nissan/Infinity, Ford Explorer/Lincoln Aviator, & some others - in addition to the Audi Q7/SQ7 & Q8/SQ8/RSQ8 for your SUV with 6000# towing needs. Almost all of these are rated for 6-7000#+ trailers, with adequate hitch wt. ratings, & the comfort, ride, enclosed cargo area & other advantages of a mid-sized SUV.

And if you haven't looked at the V8TT "S" &/or "RS" versions of the Audi Q7 &/or Q8 - they're really worth a look & a test drive (when you can given CV-19), with the SQ7 new for 2021 or 2020 MY.

As for the hitch - I don't think that you will get them level enough without WD as I noted in my last post about WD & AS above, although they all do have built in sway control & the AS will level the TV to some extent - but it won't distribute the HW amongst the TV & Trailer axles.

If you're looking to keep your AS/other trailer weight below 6000#, then you can use the much less expensive Hensley Cub at $1300-1800+/- depending on chain lift or winder jacks for the torsion bars (& less used from Hensley & still with the Lifetime warranty) - which is good for up to 6000# trailers with 600# HW (if over 6000# then you need to step up to Hensley Arrow or ProPride for PPP hitches). It's a bit more $$s than a top end WD/AS hitch from Blue Ox, Equalizer, etc. (+/- $800 up) - but IMHO the AS is much better for zero sway.

The Hensley Cub + Tekonsha RF (below) is what we use for our 1960 Avion T20 (21'-6"L & 2680# dry/empty & 3-3500# wet/loaded, stock 285# HW & 542# HW with the 160# Cub, +/- 20# Tekonsha/Mounting Plate, 2x 30# LP full tanks, & 27 gal full Fresh Water at front wall, front dinette batter/etc. added to base HW), & we've been very happy with it's zero sway design, stability, smooth ride, tighter turning radius, never having to remove the heavy hitch head & bars when parked, winder jack for torsion bars, & other benefits - as well as it giving us clearance for the rear hatch/tailgate to open while hitched up.

The PPP WD/AS & other WD/AS hitches will all fit with the shortened or regular length tow bars on the Q7/SQ7.

Our Avion T20 leveled with a rented 2013 Nissan Pathfinder 4.0L V6 (body on frame) similar to your current 4-Runner, showing the Hensley Cub, Tekonsha RF Brake Controller, & Hensley's McKesh wider Towing Mirrors on the SUV:


.

So depending upon your Toyota 4-Runner's engine & Tow Ratings - you may be able to tow an AS Sport 16' or 22' & many Vintage Kin "Silver Twinkies" like our Avion, with the 4-Runner as-is with the added WDH, until you get the Q7/SQ7 or whatever TV - as discussed below. However, we noticed it was a bit slow on long steep-ish grades with the V6 Pathfinders, whereas the rented V8 trucks & SUVs had no problems. The newer V6TTs & PHEV V6T V/A/P SUVs are close to their earlier normally aspirated V8's HP & Torque - so it may not be as much of an issue with the latest Q7 V6TT - & the SQ7 is a V8TT with plenty of HP & TQ.

Also, if you want to keep the weight under 6000# wet/loaded for a "Silver Twinkie" type trailer, then look to the AS Sport 16' & 22' models which are lighter than their non-Sport siblings. However, in their infinite wisdom AS/Thor has dropped the Sport models as of 2020 MY, but they still are selling some new 2019s at some dealers, & of course nice used ones are around.

Another great option is the vintage route - with pre-1980s AS & Vintage Kin (Avion, Silver Streak, Curtis, etc.) - all being built much lighter than new 1990s-2000s AS models, largely due to newer AS's use of heavier materials - vs lighter ones in the vintage years, such as lightweight marine plywood & cabinetry, aluminum framing, etc. You can get &/or add any "modern convenience" & option in or to a vintage trailer (e.g.: we have microwave, flat screen TV/DVD, AC, 3-way fridge & water heater, etc.), & they're just a livable or more so than a new AS - but without the rivets popping & other recent quality problems in AS trailers & their equipment.

I'd also suggest getting the Tekonsha RF (remote Prodigy) brake controller which you can mount on the trailer A-frame/front & use the handheld controller plugged into a 12v round/cig. lighter in the TV, which avoids in cabin controller mounting with its reaching for the boost (vs. at hand with the RF), plus you can switch TVs if & when needed (e.g.: in a breakdown, rental, new TV, etc. - just take the hand held control to the new TV). We also have this on our Avion with the Cub, see pic below:



Ours looks like this, & this may indeed be our T20 used in the factory brochure - and they & similar AS & other Vintage Kin were designed to be car towed, so a Q7 is just a modern station wagon built taller:


.

Hopefully this helps your Q7 dilemma, and a full read through the now very long thread from the start will be worthwhile to you and dispelling your concerns, and have the opportunity to PM with other Q7 owners towing on here for more feedback.

Good Luck on the Search!
Tom
///////
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Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
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Old Yesterday, 07:09 PM   #960
1 Rivet Member
 
2010 19' International
Asheville , North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 7
We pick up our 2010 Airstream in a couple of weeks, so I am trying to get as much of the tow vehicle tasks out of the way. I have been searching for what hitch height I need for my 2015 VW Touareg (factory towing package) to properly hitch to a 2010 AS.

I just need a simple ball and shank to get it home. The factory ball is a 2". I will have an anti sway installed later. I know the ball is a 2-5/16 inch. Does anyone know offhand what shank height I need to reach the 17.25 height for the Touareg? I looks like it could be a straight shank from the hitch receiver (no height adjustment), but I don't want to be off an inch.
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