Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[mikextr]

Originally Posted by foster2

I have a full sized spare tire also, the question is where do you store it while traveling? In the cayenne is not optimal as it takes up quite a bit of space. I usually put it in the airstream while traveling, then move it outside when we get to our destination. I’ve looked into getting a rack to mount it underneath the airstream, but the tire is thick and I don’t think there’s enough room. Any ideas in this regard would be great.

I keep the spare in the back of the Cayenne and pack around it. I may get a roof rack this season.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by StreamingEagle

Here is my .02

I have had 4 Cayenne's (and towed with an Audi Q8 briefly as well) and towed two different Airstreams with them. Here's my basics -

Airstream International 25' TV's
2017 Cayenne Platinum 3.6 v6
2018 Cayenne S 3.6 Turbo v6

Airstream Globetrotter 27' TV's
2018 Cayenne S 3.6 Turbo v6 (cont.)
2019 Cayenne S 2.9 Turbo v6
2020 Cayenne Coupe Turbo 4.0 Turbo v8 (current TV but not yet reviewable since I got it right at the beginning of this pause in travel)


1. Power & Engine Noise Level & ability to keep up speed when towing up long &/or steep grades?
2017 Cayenne Platinum 3.6 v6 - Was capable, but could tell it was having some struggles
2018 Cayenne S 3.6 Turbo v6 - Absolutely fine even going up at 6% grade and braking down the same
2019 Cayenne S 2.9 Turbo v6 - Personally I felt fine even going up at 6% grade and braking down the same, but the engine did run warm when I stopped.

2. Power & Engine Noise Level & ability to keep up speed when towing at freeway speeds?

All of them - Never had an issue with engine noise or ability to speed up while towing. I would comment that I likely am timid about even getting on the gas when merging, the Cayenne's are definitely more capable then I drive them most of the time.

3. Average MPG when towing on XC trips?

The 2017 & 2018 got better MPG then the 2019, but generally it's around 11 - 13MPG towing.
4. For the PHEV - Do you notice it working harder & ability to keep up speed on grades & at freeway speeds - once the battery is essentially exhausted & you're carrying it's battery/motor/etc. dead weight?

N/A - I don't have experience with any of the e-Hybrids.

Thanx for the detailed insights Eagle.

What are the trailer & hitch weights for your former 25' AS & current 27' AS?

Interesting on the newer V6 Base's & S's MPG, because most reported on here that the 955/957/958 3.6L VR6 got about what you reported 11-13 mpg, while the Turbo/Turbo S was also 10-13 mpg - while the non-turbo CayS V8 was mid-teens while towing, even though it was less mpg than the VR6 when unhitched city/hwy/combined (a bit better than the CayT/TS).

It does sound like the VW/Audi VR6 based 3.6L V6 would work a bit harder.

I wonder if the Base Cayenne's now Porsche based single Turbo 3.0L V6 &/or the PHEV 3.0L Turbo/Electric would have enough TQ to equal or better the older non-turbo V8 CayS?

Reviews say that the new 2019> Cay 3.0L T V6/Elec PHEV has more power HP & TQ than the 2.9L TT V6 CayS, but they're not looking at it while towing, let alone assessing how it would perform towing when the battery is depleted & carried as dead weight.

If it were not, & if it could be recharged on the downhill sides in the mountains, then IMHO it would be well worth having EV capability around town for daily use, even with the relatively short EV range. At the CayPHEV 2015-18 at 14 miles range, & the 2019> at 22 miles - that would cover most of our local trips without charging, & many longer local ones if recharged at the destination.


I welcome additional input from other 2015-2021> owners.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by foster2

I have a full sized spare tire also, the question is where do you store it while traveling? In the cayenne is not optimal as it takes up quite a bit of space. I usually put it in the airstream while traveling, then move it outside when we get to our destination. I’ve looked into getting a rack to mount it underneath the airstream, but the tire is thick and I don’t think there’s enough room. Any ideas in this regard would be great.

There are vertical mount spare carriers for either A-frame or rear bumper of the trailer - universal from eTrailer, Camping World, etc., but I don't know if AS makes their own or sells one (Fiamma?).

So you could mount the Cayenne spare &/or Trailer spare (if not tandem) at either end or split with trailer rear & TV forward/A-frame. If 1 or 2 spares on the rear bumper, then you'll need to position them to keep clear of the taillights, & would probably also need a license plate frame with light that mounts on the spare's mount bolt (sold same places as spare mount).

You don't want to tow with the Cayenne's etc. collapsible spare, nor to leave the trailer at the roadside while you drive off with a collapsable spare to try to find/fix your flat.

So a full size spare when towing is a must IMHO.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Mr. Merk]

Not sure if it's the best idea and they are plenty expensive but the Hitchgate Solo line is tow-rated at 7,500 lbs (max trailer weight) and 750 lbs (tongue weight).

https://wilcooffroad.com/shop/hitchgate-solo/

[HappyHapgood]

I take the exact opposite approach. I removed the spare from my Airstream trying to save some tongue-weight because the Porsche is so tongue-weight limited. If I have a flat on the trailer I will either tow it on three wheels, leave it on the side of the road, or call triple-A. I have no interest in changing a tire on the side of the road that is not absolutely necessary.

As for the Cayenne spare... replacing the collapsible with an even bigger and heavier wheel/tire combo is further pushing my weight challenge (though maybe you are towing a much lighter trailer).

The idea of mounting the spare the back of the Cayenne and then the trailer hanging out a few (or more) inches back on a lever arm? I can't imagine that would be a good solution for the spare unless you are only towing a 5,000 pound trailer (5,000 pounds x 12% tongue weight = 480 lbs + 50 pound hitchmate + 70 pound spare + 30 pound stinger = 750 pounds tongue weight on a longer than normal lever arm).

But what the heck, each to their own, and the Toureg/Q8/Cayennes are fantastic tow beasts. I just wish I had an air suspension and could find an aux oil and or transmission cooler).

Originally Posted by Tom_T

...

You don't want to tow with the Cayenne's etc. collapsible spare, nor to leave the trailer at the roadside while you drive off with a collapsable spare to try to find/fix your flat.

So a full size spare when towing is a must IMHO....

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[Sweendk]

re Tom's questions about how different Cayenne versions perform:

I can add that my 2016 3.6S does get a little noisy at 2,400 RPM under load.

Also, I have towed up a 9,000 ft pass in Colorado easily (as fast as the road would allow).

I still think my Cayenne version is the one to choose (short of stepping up for a 'Turbo')

Kirk

[vanster]

I have air suspension in my VW. Do the later Cayenne's and I wonder how this helps with tongue weight? My VW is go good at towing and it's in perfect condition so I have made the decision to only use it when towing. It sits in the garage with a cover over it waiting for the call. Also it seems a bit silly to drive a 6000# 10cyl TDI to the store.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Sweendk

re Tom's questions about how different Cayenne versions perform:

I can add that my 2016 3.6S does get a little noisy at 2,400 RPM under load.

Also, I have towed up a 9,000 ft pass in Colorado easily (as fast as the road would allow).

I still think my Cayenne version is the one to choose (short of stepping up for a 'Turbo')

Kirk

Thanx Kirk!

IMHO Porsche should've kept the normally aspirated V8 & continued to improve it's MPG performance, because going from a "highway rated" 22 mpg 5.0L V8 to 23 mpg 3.6L/2.9L TT V6 on the CayS makes no sense - especially when the V6 only gets 10-13 mpg while towing, vs. 13-16 mpg with the V8.

They should retain the n.a. V8 as a sub-model for that alone IMHO.

Anyone towing with the Cay eHybrid PHEV?

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by HappyHapgood

I take the exact opposite approach. I removed the spare from my Airstream trying to save some tongue-weight because the Porsche is so tongue-weight limited. If I have a flat on the trailer I will either tow it on three wheels, leave it on the side of the road, or call triple-A. I have no interest in changing a tire on the side of the road that is not absolutely necessary.

As for the Cayenne spare... replacing the collapsible with an even bigger and heavier wheel/tire combo is further pushing my weight challenge (though maybe you are towing a much lighter trailer).

The idea of mounting the spare the back of the Cayenne and then the trailer hanging out a few (or more) inches back on a lever arm? I can't imagine that would be a good solution for the spare unless you are only towing a 5,000 pound trailer (5,000 pounds x 12% tongue weight = 480 lbs + 50 pound hitchmate + 70 pound spare + 30 pound stinger = 750 pounds tongue weight on a longer than normal lever arm).

But what the heck, each to their own, and the Toureg/Q8/Cayennes are fantastic tow beasts. I just wish I had an air suspension and could find an aux oil and or transmission cooler).

Hap, that wasn't me suggesting the HitchMate above.

As I & others have said, you don't really need a trailer spare with a tandem axle, so you're good there.

I agree that the Hitchmate's weight may make the HW & the rear GAWR problem worse.

As for HW - if you're tight with the Cay 700-770# HW limit, then you don't want to mount the Cayenne spare on the A-frame, but mounting it on the rear bumper will not add to HW - but just the opposite because it's on the opposite side of the lever arm pivot - the axle(s).

Anything behind the axles will pull up on & reduce the HW, anything forward of the axles will add to HW, & over the axles will be close to neutral adding little or nothing to HW transferring most/all weight directly to the trailer axle(s)

In fact, mounting a spare(s) &/or bikes/rack on the back of the AS or any TT will reduce the HW by some percentage - just as where you place it & anything else within the AS/TT when loading to balance out the trailer.

AS & most other TTs are rated to carry some amount of weight on the back bumper, Fiamma makes the AS bike rack sold at dealers, & there are bumper mounted spare racks too.

So long as one stays within the rear object weight rating of AS or other TT mfgr. - then it also won't be a pendulum problem further inducing sway either. But then if you're pulling an expensive AS/TT, then shouldn't folks also be using a high quality Anti Sway hitch too?

It always amazes me that some other folks will pay $50-$100K for a new AS, & then balk at $2-$3K for a ProPride, Hensley or other top quality AS/WD hitch. With the PP/Hensley, sway is NOT an issue with a rear spare(s), bikes/rack etc. which is within limits of the trailer's specs. For those with a <6000# trailer, the Hensley Cub is in the $1300-$2000 range - very close to the top Blue OX etc.

Also, if you look at the hitch receiver weight rating sticker on your Cayenne, Q7, Touareg, Atlas, etc., it gives 2 HWs - one with WD & one without. So towing without a WD hitch is less than the 700-770 lbs.

More spare info here, for those asking:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...re-117660.html

.

FYI Hap - our vintage kin 1960 Avion T20 is single axle, 3000-3500# TW wet & loaded, & 542# HW incl. 2x 30# LP full, Hensley Cub & Tekonsha RF @ A-frame, + 27 gal H2O tank full @ front wall.

The Cub is 160# alone if I recall, so I'm at 382# without it, & the 1960 owner's manual listed the T20 at 2680# TW & 285# HW - presumably dry, empty & without any options. My HW was done with the Sherline HW scale, TW varies by what's loaded & tanks' levels.

Also, Terry Powell at Hensley said that the Hensley design isn't dependent on the 10-15% HW number used for typical "on the ball" towing, since it's got the ball/coupler locked into the hitch head.

PS - Back in the day, Avion offered an optional round pipe bumper which stored your flex sewer lines, with an optional spare tire carrier welded to the center (if also ordered), all of which with a spare was probably 200+ lbs. But then the Avions are known for having stronger boxed steel frames, than the "C" frames on Airstreams of the day - so they can better hold that much weight.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by vanster

I have air suspension in my VW. Do the later Cayenne's and I wonder how this helps with tongue weight? My VW is go good at towing and it's in perfect condition so I have made the decision to only use it when towing. It sits in the garage with a cover over it waiting for the call. Also it seems a bit silly to drive a 6000# 10cyl TDI to the store.

Your V10 TDI is a monster for towing!

Air Suspension was an option on all Cayennes up to the GTS & Turbo/Turbo S models - where it was standard equipment. It's a fairly common option on the Cayenne S models with either V8 or V6 TT.

However, there is more long term maintenance on air suspension over steel springs, & the AS on Cayennes, Macans & Panameras can be hard to get dialed in after maintenance/repairs according to the P-tech's I know from our local Porsche Club.

For me, I'd personally rather stick to the steel springs & just adjust the Hensley Cub to adjust the ride height & axle weights distribution on the Cayenne.

Cheers!
Tom
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[cedonly]

We tow a fc20 with a 2012 cayenne s hybrid. The battery towing or not is not really in play on the highway. The battery helps with acceleration and very limited range (almost never o. It’s own). The supercharged v6 gas engine does awesome.. never any issues. We get 13-15 mpg at 65+mph.

One advantage of the hybrid is that downhill or when decelerating, the engine decouples from the transmission and also turns off... that probably adds 1-2 mpg.

-C

[NGavush]

Hey guys. Hope you don’t mind my using you as a resource but seems to be one of the best threads out there for towing.

Went out this past weekend and put a deposit on a Puma XLE Lite 20MBC. (25’ 10” - 450lbs tongue / 4458lbs dry & 6000lbs gross)

Also set about locating a trailer hitch (wife’s 09 Cayenne S isn’t equipped) I tried local yards Saturday with no luck. Looking online I found two Touaregs in Knoxville at pull a part tho and planned to go Sunday. Was then up way late on the ole internets and located one guy with a Blue Ox wd hitch with appropriate spring bars (750) and another guy with a NIB Prodigy P3 with extra brackets

Left Sunday AM and met the guy with the WD hitch who was super nice and had a lot of info to share. We geeked out for an hour as his trailer is the same floor plan as ours will be. (He’s selling the blue ox to get a Hensley) anyway, picked up the hitch for $340. Then drove to Knoxville with fingers crossed and was thrilled to find one of the vehicles had a hitch on it. $77 for the hitch, harness, light controller and 4 OE weather mats. Then punched in the brake controller guys address (10min from home) and picked it up 3.5hrs later for $80. So.. was gone for 10 hours and drove 450 miles and felt like it was one of my best foraging runs ever.

Anyway. Now I’ve got to order new bolts and stuff. I want to use reducer bushings for the 14mm holes and bring them down to 12mm to match the bolts. Anyone have a source for these? I’m having a hard time finding anything online.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by NGavush

Hey guys. Hope you don’t mind my using you as a resource but seems to be one of the best threads out there for towing.

Went out this past weekend and put a deposit on a Puma XLE Lite 20MBC. (25’ 10” - 450lbs tongue / 4458lbs dry & 6000lbs gross)

Also set about locating a trailer hitch (wife’s 09 Cayenne S isn’t equipped) I tried local yards Saturday with no luck. Looking online I found two Touaregs in Knoxville at pull a part tho and planned to go Sunday. Was then up way late on the ole internets and located one guy with a Blue Ox wd hitch with appropriate spring bars (750) and another guy with a NIB Prodigy P3 with extra brackets

Left Sunday AM and met the guy with the WD hitch who was super nice and had a lot of info to share. We geeked out for an hour as his trailer is the same floor plan as ours will be. (He’s selling the blue ox to get a Hensley) anyway, picked up the hitch for $340. Then drove to Knoxville with fingers crossed and was thrilled to find one of the vehicles had a hitch on it. $77 for the hitch, harness, light controller and 4 OE weather mats. Then punched in the brake controller guys address (10min from home) and picked it up 3.5hrs later for $80. So.. was gone for 10 hours and drove 450 miles and felt like it was one of my best foraging runs ever.

Anyway. Now I’ve got to order new bolts and stuff. I want to use reducer bushings for the 14mm holes and bring them down to 12mm to match the bolts. Anyone have a source for these? I’m having a hard time finding anything online.

NG -

If I recall correctly, that Touareg hitch should have parts that go into the L & R unibody longitudinal channels on each end behind the 4 bolts. So you should google for the hitch parts diagram to confirm, & then may have to go back to pull them out of the donor vehicle.

However - you should also 1st check on the electronics compatibility of the VW hitch with the Porsche Cayenne ones, since the electronics sense when hitched & automatically puts the CayS into tow mode (sometimes Porsche does things on their cars to intentionally make them different from their VW & Audi partners, probably to sell their own parts).

Call a local dealer to confirm if compatible or not, & then you will also need to go into the dealer to have them reset the ECU(s) on your CayS for that hitch mode electronics, since they have the electronics to reset/reprogram them.

There are some good posts on hitch installs & reprogramming chips earlier in this thread, if you do some reading back thru it's long 44 pages.

I don't think using reducer bushings on a receiver with a WD hitch is a good idea, with the torque which the WD Blue Ox is going to put on that assembly, & the movement that the bushings will allow.

Although nowhere near the pricing you got on this hitch, both Sunset Porsche in OR & Suncoast Porsche in FL & Hennessey Porsche in GA sell the correct new 957 hitch for your CayS, & they sell at a discount from what all other P-dealers charge for it (check all 3 for best parts prices). I think they were about $800 for the complete hitch, electronics/harnesses, etc., & would carry the 12 month new parts warranty (yours was 10% of that, so understand your bargain hunting).

They're a good reference for future CayS & other P-car parts.

I'd suggest going new with the trailer electrical hook-up to avoid electrical gremlins due to corrosion/etc., & since they're relatively cheap & accessible. I also suggest using a combo 4pin/7pin connector, if you can fit it, instead of a 7-pin solo one.

There are also a few posts earlier in this thread about a 7pin adapter for the Euro SUVs to allow them to work with our US trailers, about $20-30 I think from Curt, so maybe get one along with the 4/7pin together (eTrailer, Camping World, local trailer shop, etc.).

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by cedonly

We tow a fc20 with a 2012 cayenne s hybrid. The battery towing or not is not really in play on the highway. The battery helps with acceleration and very limited range (almost never o. It’s own). The supercharged v6 gas engine does awesome.. never any issues. We get 13-15 mpg at 65+mph.

One advantage of the hybrid is that downhill or when decelerating, the engine decouples from the transmission and also turns off... that probably adds 1-2 mpg.

-C

Thanx for the info.

However, I think it's better to keep the engine coupled & in gear on downgrades to help with engine braking & save the TV's brakes from overheating.

I was wondering if the electric motors kick in on an upgrade to help with torque pulling the trailer, just as it does from a stop & accelerating?

Also - being in relatively flat MN - I have to ask if you've ever taken your CayHyb rig on any major mountains on your trips - Rockies, Smokies, etc.?


It looks like the electric only range of your 2012 CH is in the 1.2 - 1.5 mile range, so yes, it's more of a power booster for the 3.0L V6 Turbo.

Whereas, the later 2015-18 958 eHybrid is plug-in & +/- 14 miles, & 2019> is +/- 22 miles - neither is great, but would give us local EV-only driving, with charging at home.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Rovin Raven]

I rent my 20’ FC for extra money. The majority of my renters are folks who are thinking of buying one themselves. I have one renter coming up who says his Audi Q8 manual says not to use a weight distribution system. He says the torque can rip the hitch right off. I am very nervous about letting him tow without it. He will be towing in Appalachia, steep windy mountain roads and highways. But he wants to buy one and keep his tow vehicle so he really wants to try towing it. My 20’ FC is 5000# GW. We tow it with a Ford Expedition. Opinions?

[Prettygood]

Originally Posted by Rovin Raven

I rent my 20’ FC for extra money. The majority of my renters are folks who are thinking of buying one themselves. I have one renter coming up who says his Audi Q8 manual says not to use a weight distribution system. He says the torque can rip the hitch right off. I am very nervous about letting him tow without it. He will be towing in Appalachia, steep windy mountain roads and highways. But he wants to buy one and keep his tow vehicle so he really wants to try towing it. My 20’ FC is 5000# GW. We tow it with a Ford Expedition. Opinions?

The Q8 is rated to 7700 pounds. The vehicle is fine to tow a 5k trailer, the question is if you are comfortable that the driver knows how to tow. Do you have an extra friction sway bar that can be used instead of WDH? That would be reasonable and not compromise the Audi.

[Mr. Merk]

You would really benefit from keeping an Andersen hitch on hand and requiring your renters to use it. On cars like the Q8 it would still benefit from the anti-sway built into the ball, even without the WD chains being attached. On our Cayenne I use the chains but don't cinch them down. My truck gets them cranked to spec.

[TouringDan]

Originally Posted by Prettygood

The Q8 is rated to 7700 pounds. The vehicle is fine to tow a 5k trailer, the question is if you are comfortable that the driver knows how to tow. Do you have an extra friction sway bar that can be used instead of WDH? That would be reasonable and not compromise the Audi.

On 4/26/19, post #705, I noted that the payload for an Audi Q8 is only 1,102 lbs. It is a very nice vehicle, but not much payload for towing.

Dan

[Rovin Raven]

Originally Posted by Mr. Merk

You would really benefit from keeping an Andersen hitch on hand and requiring your renters to use it. On cars like the Q8 it would still benefit from the anti-sway built into the ball, even without the WD chains being attached. On our Cayenne I use the chains but don't cinch them down. My truck gets them cranked to spec.

Theoretically a good idea, but I don’t want to invest in another system and then change the set up out for the rare renter without a truck. There are a lot of bolts on my Reece WD/Sway system.

[foster2]

The risk from the weight distributing hitch is low compared to the risk of letting initiated drivers tow your airstream. Interested to know what happens when you attempt to file a claim for damage and your insurance disclaims.