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Old 03-04-2020, 06:00 PM   #821
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Sounds like a typical trial lawyer, when you can't beat them with fact, just do the razzle dazzle. this would make Barnum Bailey proud.
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Old 03-04-2020, 06:43 PM   #822
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I do not even know what you are referring to, but I wanted to say welcome to this thread. Your expertise will be much appreciated... or not.

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Sounds like a typical trial lawyer, when you can't beat them with fact, just do the razzle dazzle. this would make Barnum Bailey proud.
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Old 03-04-2020, 06:58 PM   #823
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Sounds like a typical trial lawyer, when you can't beat them with fact, just do the razzle dazzle. this would make Barnum Bailey proud.
You are going to have to be a little clearer.
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Old 03-04-2020, 09:30 PM   #824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonPi View Post
The Defender can fly.



https://youtu.be/EJQhv6BsVRY


Thatís hilarious . Iíll take the motorcycle
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:27 AM   #825
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Tesla truck?
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#4286 Stella the 2000 30ft Excella/Classic - Tow Vehicle - 2012 Mercedes Benz GL350d - CanAmRv.ca hitch Reinforcement EZ-Lift WD with 2 Anti Sway Bars. previous tow vehicle 2005 Ford F150 Lariat 367,000Kms 5.4L
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Old 03-05-2020, 06:09 AM   #826
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Any ideas about loss of tire material due to proper or improper use of WD hitch? I can't say whether loss is limited to only fronts since the tires were rotated front to back several times before loss was noted!! Evident on inside and outside tread on all 4 tires.

VW 2016 Touareg TDI 19 inch wheels
Michelin Latitude Tour X tires manufactured in 2016 purchased in 2018
Tire pressure VW Treg specs (35 psi Front . 41 psi Rear)
Flying Cloud 20 ft
No brake controller
Reese WD 1000 lb bars
Vehicle stance checked with measuring tape
Photos of tires after 40k miles

Generally, when you see that kind of tire damage, it is a combination of incorrect alignment, usually both toe and castor. Its likely is exacerbated by the shift in steering geometry due to the trailer weight and weight redistribution. You can probably improve the situation by reevaluating your WD settings and carefully re-calibrating it so the vehicle body is closer to neutral than you have been running it, but misalignment is most likely the bulk of the issue.
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Old 03-05-2020, 06:10 AM   #827
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You are going to have to be a little clearer.
Sorry bad, joke. It was a commentary about BMW's confusing marketing tactics.
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Old 03-05-2020, 09:59 AM   #828
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Confusing marketing tactics? Hahaha. BMW has a lot to catch up on. US car manufacturers managed to convince the entire nation than only trucks can tow. This is the marketing achievement!

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Sorry bad, joke. It was a commentary about BMW's confusing marketing tactics.
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Old 03-05-2020, 11:31 AM   #829
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The Michelinís on my 2016 Touareg TDI did the same thing from the previous owner, and I donít think they towed anything. I think it was from driving on rock roads. I went through a couple sets of tires on my 2012 Touareg and didnít have that happen. I tow a 21 foot Airstream and I get bad wear on the inside rear tires.
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:09 PM   #830
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Originally Posted by SteveNdebbie View Post
Thatís hilarious . Iíll take the motorcycle


The video Defender advertisement following the Utube movie clip was pretty impressive. It does have an available towing capacity of 3,500 kg. However, the design seems extremely complex, makes me wonder about the reliability.

Dan
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:59 PM   #831
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Originally Posted by AnonPi View Post
The Defender can fly.

https://youtu.be/EJQhv6BsVRY
Great video!
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Old 03-06-2020, 08:37 AM   #832
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The video Defender advertisement following the Utube movie clip was pretty impressive. It does have an available towing capacity of 3,500 kg. However, the design seems extremely complex, makes me wonder about the reliability.

Dan
Hopefully Car and Driver will add one to their long term test fleet to answer some of those questions. I know they recently added the current Cayenne.
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Old 03-06-2020, 02:41 PM   #833
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I would look for a low mileage VW Touareg TDI. The V10 is the pick of the litter for towing but there are a number of 3.0 TDI's out there. I get 18mpg around town and 18mpg when towing regardless of hills. It doesn't know it's towing anything. Going over the Continental Divide was seamless. The other suggestion would be the Porsche Diesel ( same car). The gas pickups get really thirsty towing. I think my VW has a 8800# rating but it weighs about 6000#'s
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:50 PM   #834
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I would look for a low mileage VW Touareg TDI. The V10 is the pick of the litter for towing but there are a number of 3.0 TDI's out there. I get 18mpg around town and 18mpg when towing regardless of hills. It doesn't know it's towing anything. Going over the Continental Divide was seamless. The other suggestion would be the Porsche Diesel ( same car). The gas pickups get really thirsty towing. I think my VW has a 8800# rating but it weighs about 6000#'s


I think the biggest problem with the Touareg diesel is a low payload. What is your payload on the door jamb?

The Cayenne gas motor fixes the payload problem but is not as fuel efficient.

Dan
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Old 03-07-2020, 07:32 AM   #835
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2016 Touareg TDI

Anyone out there towing with a 2016 Touareg TDI? We are looking for our first airstream - probably a 19-22 ft. I don't want a truck again and need my towing vehicle to also be my daily driver. I've mostly settled on a 2016 TDI Touareg, though they are not easy to find. I'm driving a VW now, and really like everything about it so I would like to stay in that family. I test drove a 2016 Touareg gasser, but the low mpg on just everyday seems like a bad idea. the lower torque on the gasser seems less desirable as well.

Everything I read says they can tow the size of airstream we are considering. I know there are tongue weight considerations, and I'm reading there may be hitch reinforcements needed as well.

Just looking for another late model VW TDI owner to ask question to. Are you happy with it, what have you done to it to make it a better tow vehicle? etc.
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Old 03-07-2020, 10:12 AM   #836
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The V10 has about 1000#'s of payload and about 8000#'s of towing capacity. The cargo area is small in the VW and seldom do we fill it full of heavy stuff. The advantages that I see is 1) short turning radius 2) mileage, 3) quiet 4) gobs of torque 5) great braking 6) Adjustable air suspension 7) locking diff's. I have not weighed our AS but I'm guessing it's about 3100#'s wet. The only things we carry inside the T-reg are solar suite case 15 extra gallons of fresh water and a few camp chairs.
A few years back we used a V8 Porsche to haul a race car ( 3000#'s) trailer (2000#s). Inside the car were tools, jacks, tires etc. I think we averaged about 9 mpg going across the Nevada desert. It also had air suspension.
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Old 03-07-2020, 03:40 PM   #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
I think Bono meant that BMW varies GVWR, not that they intentionally deceive. The Dieselgate situation was a little different IMO. No comment on the charge of inflating sales numbers, I haven't seen a resolution of that one yet. It has been pretty common across the industry over the past decades, though, so I wouldn't be shocked.

My X3 had a payload sticker (1100 lbs IIRC, pretty good for a vehicle built on a 3 series sedan) that was the same on all versions. When I went to purchase two replacement rear coil springs (plastic coating cracked, rust on the last two inches where they seated, a common issue) I found out that there were a very large number of different springs offered. They had to be ordered by VIN. The differences were for every option combination. Panoramic sunroof? No problem. Heavier spring. This resulted in a wide range of GVWRs, with the same payload. I was told innumerable times on this board, by people familiar with US truck manufacturer standards, that my (heavily optioned) vehicle had a lower payload than the spec sheet. I eventually posted a picture of the yellow sticker. As long as BMW certified the highest GVWR, or had multiple certifications, it wasn't wrong at all. As Bono noted, not many BMW purchasers cared about payload.

It was similar to when they sold me a 535 twin turbo and said it had 300 hp. People noted the acceleration times, immediately put them on dynos and then asked BMW how they were getting close to 100% drive train efficiency. They weren't, of course. BMW was simply publishing a lower hp for the 3.0 twin turbo, presumably because the M3 cost more, without much more hp, and it looked bad. It wasn't illegal, it was just marketing.

Sales Misrepresentation:



I was basically poking fun about the overstating of sales, but it is in fact illegal under Securities & Exchange rules for a publicly traded company to misstate their sales, earnings, etc. on their books because investors depend on correct info for stock investments & their management. Either directly or indirectly, I think that most on here have some stock exposure with their retirement accounts.



BMW is facing both US & EU/German legal troubles on this.


Just this past week FCA's RAM President resigned after Dodge/Chrysler illegally retaliated against him for whistle-blowing on them for overstating their truck sales (which is also illegal under Federal whistle-blower laws). So is RAM 1500 really in 2nd place for sales behind Ford's F150?



Yes, many do it, most get caught, then usually settle for seemingly insignificant payments. It's still not good for our economy, nor elsewhere.





Emissions Scandals:



As I said, Dieselgate was a whole different ballgame, & VW/A/P were not the only ones cooking the emissions books on diesel emission cheating - but maybe the worst & widest spread.



FCA also was charged on it, & had to pull the 3.0L V6 TDI from RAM trucks in the USA for a year or two. I think there were others too, as well as Bosch who made the control units & the software bypass, although they claimed that it was only supposed to be used for in shop/factory testing - & not in actual use on the road.





Payload & Other Weight Ratings:


Even if it's only for the few TV nuts like us who care, good accurate info is the best policy, but even Porsche has had some odd variances between the USA & Euro/UK ratings, & as listing in their owners manuals, on hitch rating stickers, door rating stickers, etc. It's just a royal PITA that makes it harder for us to be diligent.



BMW seems to be going at it a different way via varying the GVWRs rather than the net payloads, which adds to the confusion anytime that there are differing standards in the industry.



Although they're not binding for USA vehicles, you can usually access the German TUV (their DOT) test results & ratings for most vehicles, in order to get actually tow pulling & braking capabilities on any vehicle sold there.



I did that for the 1978-95 Porsche 928s when I was considering getting one as a fun TV for our 1960 Avion T20, which only weighs in wet & loaded at 3000-3500 lbs (depending on what we pack). The 928 was rated for 4800+ lbs TW, but the HW was only about 365 lbs - so that was the weak link, but in truth it was my wife wanting "real" backseats & more cargo room! Dang! LOL





Another Varying Springs Story FYI:


We bought our 1988 VW Vanagon CamperGL Westfalia new & it always leaned to the left due to all the cabinetry & water tank on that side, but our local VW dealer could never find a problem with it (Commonwealth in Santa Ana CA - BTW). In 2012-13 as we did a resto/renovation of our beloved Westy, my long time P/VW/A/BMW/MBZ tech discovered that the factory had used the "standard" springs & shocks on the car - instead of the correct HD variety!



How dang hard was it for the dealer to look at the springs' & shocks' paint dot/code to see that!?


So we ended up paying 2012-13 prices for the now limited stock correct HD factory springs & shocks out of pocket, & there is no recourse with the dealer nor VW at this late date.



VW used HD springs & shocks on the Full Campers, Pick-ups (single & Doka cab), Cargo, Specialty (fire, police, military, etc.), & 4WD Synchro models, but standard springs & shocks on most all others.



It sounds like BMW is doing similarly.



This is not much different for US car & truck makers since the 1950s, & Euro makers now, to have a "towing option" which included HD suspension, radiator, oil & trans fluid coolers, etc. to handle the heavier loads when towning.



Hopefully this both clarifies & adds to the discussion here.



Cheers!
Tom
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Old 03-07-2020, 03:43 PM   #838
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I tow a Sovereign 21 with a 2016 TDI. The Touareg tdi performs fantastic towing that size trailer. I get 16mpg towing and 30+ on the highway unhitched. Great power for going up hills and goes down hill well also. This is my second, had a 2012 Touareg tdi that I put 160k on it with no problems. Also the VW/Airstream combo is a major conversation piece. Every where you go someone comes up and asks- You tow that with this? My wife and I just look at each other and laugh when it happens.
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Old 03-07-2020, 03:57 PM   #839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanster View Post
I would look for a low mileage VW Touareg TDI. The V10 is the pick of the litter for towing but there are a number of 3.0 TDI's out there. I get 18mpg around town and 18mpg when towing regardless of hills. It doesn't know it's towing anything. Going over the Continental Divide was seamless. The other suggestion would be the Porsche Diesel ( same car). The gas pickups get really thirsty towing. I think my VW has a 8800# rating but it weighs about 6000#'s

I'm pretty sure that all Touregs & Cayennes are rated for 7716 lbs towing with about 770 lbs HW, except for the Hybrids, which are lower than the that due to the added battery & electric motor/gear weight.



I think that the 5.0L V10 TDI had something like 1000 lb/ft of torque, while the 3.0L V6 TDI was about 500 something. I think that Bono had a V10 for a while, but IIRC they ended in the mid-2000s, so are both older & at or near the end of required manufacturer parts supply (10 years in the USA, 15 in Germany).



The 3.0L V6 TDI was the subject of the DieselGate cheating, & their settlement only provides for parts & maintenance (extended warranty) support for them for 10 years after the settlement. Anyone considering one should look on the respective VW/A/P website for the settlement info, as well as consider if you're going to keep it past the support &/or parts supply end dates.



Many on here have or had them & love them for towing. CanAm did this article on one set up for towing a long AS -

go to page 6 for Cayenne TDI article -
http://rvlifemag.dgtlpub.com/?i=2546


Cheers!
Tom
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Old 03-07-2020, 07:13 PM   #840
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Question Feedback - Anyone Towing with 2015> Cayenne S V6 TT &/or PHEV?

Is anyone out there towing with a 2015-18 or 2019-20 Cayenne S V6 TT &/or 3.0L T V6-PHEV?



I'm curious to hear how your experience with the following models:



2015-18 3.6L V6 TT CayS,

2015-18 3.6L V6 N.A. Base Cay,

2019-20+ 3.0L V6 T Base Cay,

2019-20+ 2.9L V6 TT CayS, &/or

2015-2020+ 3.0L V6 T-PHEV Cayennes when towing -



- in the areas listed below.



Please specify which model/year/engine Cayenne & what size/weight trailer that you have when answering.


1. Power & Engine Noise Level & ability to keep up speed when towing up long &/or steep grades?



2. Power & Engine Noise Level & ability to keep up speed when towing at freeway speeds?



3. Average MPG when towing on XC trips?


4. For the PHEV - Do you notice it working harder & ability to keep up speed on grades & at freeway speeds - once the battery is essentially exhausted & you're carrying it's battery/motor/etc. dead weight?





Background on my search -



I'd initially focused on getting the CayS normally aspirated V8 for best towing of our vintage 1960 Avion T20 (similar to AS, Silver Streak, etc. 20' class of the day), which weighs in at 3000-3500 lbs wet & loaded (depending on what we pack) - so well within the Cayenne's 7716 lbs. TWR.



Originally, we saw 80% of it's use would be in towing & maybe for some Porsche Club activities, otherwise using our other cars for daily use. Also, we've both retired now (me semi-ret.), & are now thinking that we'd use a Cayenne for more local pleasure & some daily use as well - so maybe 50:50 now.



But since Porsche dropped the N.A. V8 in the CayS after 2014, the latest of the V8s are getting long in the tooth, & harder to find a nice low mile one (i.e.: <60K). So they're fewer & farther between lately.



And with Porsche's quest for ever more performance with every new model update, even the Base V6s & PHEV V6 Turbo are getting close to the output of the original 955 era CayS V8 - & the TT V6 CayS surpasses even the last of the 2014 958.1 N.A. V8s - at least on paper.



So I'm looking for real world experiences from members on here with the newer V6 Cayenne 958.2 & whatever the 2019> is called now.



We got turned off on V6s back in 2012-13 we'd rented several different Nissan Pathfinders with their 4.0L N.A. V6 & Automatic Trans (the prior body on frame version) - which was a big V6, but it was constantly hunting for gears, & running noisily at high revs, & struggled a bit on moderate grades - e.g.: up I-5 from San Fernando Valley up to Valencia/Santa Clarita/Tragic Mountain Park area, & even US 101 up from Camarillo to Thousand Jokes, - if you know SoCal.



We just knew that it would've clearly been tortuous to try a XC trip back east with all the work that V6 was doing - even with our relatively modest weight trailer.



We've continued to rent pick-up trucks from Enterprise Truck Rentals since 2014, in part because we were only using it for 3-6 week or weekend vintage trailer rallies per year while my wife was working as a hospital nurse - & it was a lower cost to rent than own at that level of use.



We also haven't gotten one yet because we weren't finding or securing a decent CayS V8 at a reasonable price - & every PCA member selling theirs thinks theirs is worth twice the market & as much as 2-3 year newer ones sell for per KBB/NADA, & don't think that late model vehicles are depreciating assets losing value monthly - geesh!



I even had one PCA member sell his for $5K less than my best offer, about a month after I stopped with his constant renegotiating for 2 months! I mean really - who doesn't call back your last best offer to check if you can sell it for the rejected offer!? Geesh!



Anyway, I'd probably get the 3.0L Turbo V6 PHEV & install a fast charger here, if I was comfortable that it would still tow our trailer well & strong, without excessive noise - & otherwise with the Base 3.0L Turbo V6 or 3.6L or 2.9L TT V6 CayS if not enough power in the PHEV.



And while I like the 2019-20 Biscay Blue color of the latest Cayennes - I'm not a fan of the harder to use while driving glass-screen controls for audio & HVAC. Reviews say that radio/audio & climate controls are 2-3+ layers down just to access the on-screen controls!



So I prefer also having old school dials & knobs which you can use without taking your eyes off the road - as in the 2015-18 958.2 Cayennes, & we also like the Sapphire Blue on a few of the 2017-18 ones.



Also, the newer 2015> Cayennes are new enough to be at a lower <40-50K miles & more available with Porsche CPO warranties - than are the <2014 ones.



So what say ye newer V6 Cayenne Tow Haulers?



Thanx in Advance!
Tom
///////
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