Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[Garfish]

Originally Posted by TouringDan

I took my wife’s Audi A3 in for service last year. I suppose I am always dreaming of a “fun to drive TV” for our 66 Tradewind, besides the Porsche Cayenne. The Q7 would work with a payload of 1,323 lbs but it doesn’t have enough power to be my fun car.Attachment 361979Attachment 361980
I figured the Q8 might have a higher payload, but nope at just 1,102 lbs.Attachment 361981Attachment 361982
The Audi that I would really want would be the SQ5 but that was a distant third at 1,058 lbs. Heck, my non TV VW Golf has a payload of 1,006 lbs. Back to dreaming about the Porsche Cayenne.

DanAttachment 361983Attachment 361984

My GL 450 has payload of 1900

[TouringDan]

Originally Posted by Garfish

My GL 450 has payload of 1900

That is a great payload number. Just to keep it in perspective my dream TV, the Porsche Cayenne (2019 model) has a tow capacity of 7,700 lbs and a payload of 1,862 lbs.

Dan

[bono]

Always amazes me where BMW cars are loosing payload... e.g. BMW X7 40i in Europe has 1,840 lbs payload.

https://www.bmw.de/de/neufahrzeuge/x...ten.html#tab-0

In the US, it is around 1,200 lbs (could not quickly find BMW US source, but 1,200 lbs in more less what I would expect based on e.g. X5 payload)

https://www.cars.com/research/bmw-x7/specs/

Where the payload goes? These cars are manufactured in the same factory in the US. Generally the suspension is the same. I am thinking that maybe the fact the BMW US is limiting the speed to 130 mph on the US market and using lower speed / weight tire index may something to do with this...

[AnonPi]

It isn't available until, I think, this summer (2020) but you might take a look at the new Land Rover Defender, which is a complete redesign. From the brochure (mostly) and data for the Defender 110 w/P400 engine:

• Maximum power (HP/rpm) -- 395 / 5,500
• Maximum torque (lb ft/rpm) -- 406 / 2,000-5,000
• Maximum Payload (lbs) -- Up to 1,874
• Maximum towing (lbs) -- 8,201
• Maximum coupling point/nose weight (lbs) -- 820*

* The brochure lists 330 lbs for this value, but according to Land Rover, the listed value is for unbraked trailers while for braked trailers it is 10% of the maximum towing value.

[Tom_T]

All -



Keep in mind that the generic specs on payload / useful load are without options (much like the trailers), so they'll be higher than what any particular car/truck would be in real life - unless it's bare bones no options.



So that panoramic skylight, 6-disc changers, 4 seats heat/ventilation, air suspension, etc. each takes a bite out of your net payload. Also, they only include all fluids & a "standard" 150 lb driver in the curb weight (GVWR - CW = payload) - so you need to deduct driver wt. over 150 & all passengers & luggage for a net payload figure, as well as the options.



The vehicles should list their payload, CW, etc. on a door sticker - as it is fitted with the Factory options, but you'll have to deduct for any dealer &/or your own aftermarket options added (how much do those WeatherTech mats weigh??).



As for the differences between USA & Euro payloads - I think that the manufacturers tend to "load up" options on the US cars/trucks in order to improve the bottom line, &/or to meet perceived consumer preferences here. So most of those differences that you're seeing are probably due to more options included from the factory.



When was the last time that you saw a new dead base Cayenne, BMW X5, MBZ GL450, etc. on any dealer's lot!?



Cheers!
Tom
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[mikextr]

I like the old saying about Land Rovers:
"If you plan on going deep into the outback, get a Land Rover. If you want to go deep into the outback and get get back home again, get a Land Cruiser" Something like that, anyway.

[SteveNdebbie]

BMW climbs mountains

[mikextr]

Good for BMW��
Cayenne tows jumbo jets!
https://youtu.be/g-OqEzK4uxg

[AnonPi]

The Defender can fly.

https://youtu.be/EJQhv6BsVRY

[bono]

A couple of comments. I do not believe that BMW X7 is optioned 600 lbs better for the US market. Standard BMW X7 on European market is well loaded. Another thing - BMW (at least in E70 model) used very standard yellow sticker, which showed 1,100 lbs payload, regardless of the engine version, options, etc. Payload of my car is around 1,400-1,450 lbs based on what I learnt from the CAT visit. Yellow sticker is not bible, at least not always.

Originally Posted by Tom_T

All -



Keep in mind that the generic specs on payload / useful load are without options (much like the trailers), so they'll be higher than what any particular car/truck would be in real life - unless it's bare bones no options.



So that panoramic skylight, 6-disc changers, 4 seats heat/ventilation, air suspension, etc. each takes a bite out of your net payload. Also, they only include all fluids & a "standard" 150 lb driver in the curb weight (GVWR - CW = payload) - so you need to deduct driver wt. over 150 & all passengers & luggage for a net payload figure, as well as the options.



The vehicles should list their payload, CW, etc. on a door sticker - as it is fitted with the Factory options, but you'll have to deduct for any dealer &/or your own aftermarket options added (how much do those WeatherTech mats weigh??).



As for the differences between USA & Euro payloads - I think that the manufacturers tend to "load up" options on the US cars/trucks in order to improve the bottom line, &/or to meet perceived consumer preferences here. So most of those differences that you're seeing are probably due to more options included from the factory.



When was the last time that you saw a new dead base Cayenne, BMW X5, MBZ GL450, etc. on any dealer's lot!?



Cheers!
Tom
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[TouringDan]

Originally Posted by bono

BMW (at least in E70 model) used very standard yellow sticker, which showed 1,100 lbs payload, regardless of the engine version, options, etc. Payload of my car is around 1,400-1,450 lbs based on what I learnt from the CAT visit. Yellow sticker is not bible, at least not always.

Most definitely. The payload sticker is only useful for deciding which TV to purchase. The real payload is determined by taking your TV to the scale and subtracting the vehicle weight from the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR).

Dan

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by bono

A couple of comments. I do not believe that BMW X7 is optioned 600 lbs better for the US market. Standard BMW X7 on European market is well loaded. Another thing - BMW (at least in E70 model) used very standard yellow sticker, which showed 1,100 lbs payload, regardless of the engine version, options, etc. Payload of my car is around 1,400-1,450 lbs based on what I learnt from the CAT visit. Yellow sticker is not bible, at least not always.

Bono & TouringDan -



If BMW (or any maker) isn't updating the yellow sticker at least for engine types wherein a V6, V8 or Hybrid+batteries which will vastly reduce payload, then folks would need to look up the actual specs online or in brochures when deciding on a purchase.



It's my understanding that US-DOT requires to at least update the numbers for the engines, if not for options or upgraded "included equipment" (but I may be wrong on this). So BMW may be breaking the US law there, unless their powerplant weights don't differ, or that they used the lowest weights for GVWR & GAWR at all vehicles on the sticker - even lighter CW ones. If the latter, then an I6 X5 would show up with a greater than sticker payload, than would the V8 version - when weighed at the scale.



From what I recall, the Cayennes do reflect the correct differing CW, GAWR & GVWR for the gas V6, diesel V6, V6-Hybrid & V8 models due to their differing powerplant &/or battery weight component(s) (& included equipment IIRC).



They can't take it to a scale pre-purchase new or used, so I was offering numbers which they can use - either on the sticker or in published specs. After purchase it's obviously best to weigh the vehicle & do your own math from GVWR.



Also, the GVWR & GCWR (combined TV+Trailer) generally won't change, unless there is an option for towing enhancements which beef up the suspension etc., but that tends to be found only on the USA makes.



Cheers!
Tom
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[bono]

BMW has been taking shortcut to use same yellow stickers showing the same payload for all BMW X5 (E70). They play with approved gross vehicle weight to reflect the difference between engine options. Likely almost 100% BMW drivers do not care about payload.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by bono

BMW has been taking shortcut to use same yellow stickers showing the same payload for all BMW X5 (E70). They play with approved gross vehicle weight to reflect the difference between engine options. Likely almost 100% BMW drivers do not care about payload.

This might be changing with the G05. They certainly have different payloads for the 5 seat vs. the 7 seat. And the s vs x drive. And the standard vs. the 2 axle air suspension.

[bono]

Makes sense. E70 had a different payload for 7 seater, as this came with rear axle air suspension. But this was it - no payload difference between engine versions or options.

Originally Posted by markdoane

This might be changing with the G05. They certainly have different payloads for the 5 seat vs. the 7 seat. And the s vs x drive. And the standard vs. the 2 axle air suspension.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by bono

BMW has been taking shortcut to use same yellow stickers showing the same payload for all BMW X5 (E70). They play with approved gross vehicle weight to reflect the difference between engine options. Likely almost 100% BMW drivers do not care about payload.

Yeah Bono, & BMW is also in trouble with financial/stock regulators for falsifying their sales numbers.



Of course VW/Audi/Porsche has nothing to be ashamed of after Dieselgate! LOL


Cheers!
Tom
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[2011Cloud]

Any ideas about loss of tire material due to proper or improper use of WD hitch? I can't say whether loss is limited to only fronts since the tires were rotated front to back several times before loss was noted!! Evident on inside and outside tread on all 4 tires.

VW 2016 Touareg TDI 19 inch wheels
Michelin Latitude Tour X tires manufactured in 2016 purchased in 2018
Tire pressure VW Treg specs (35 psi Front . 41 psi Rear)
Flying Cloud 20 ft
No brake controller
Reese WD 1000 lb bars
Vehicle stance checked with measuring tape
Photos of tires after 40k miles

[TouringDan]

Just some comments, I am certainly no expert.

- why no brake controller? This means your trailer brakes aren’t working. This will be harder on your Touareg tires and brakes.

- 40k miles? How many miles do you expect to get?

I recommend getting new tires and a brake controller. Then monitor tire wear.

Dan

[JonDNC]

Also can’t tell but you could have an alignment or inflation issue tire wear doesn’t look even across the tread. Also check for wear on bushings etc.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by bono

BMW has been taking shortcut to use same yellow stickers showing the same payload for all BMW X5 (E70). They play with approved gross vehicle weight to reflect the difference between engine options. Likely almost 100% BMW drivers do not care about payload.

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Yeah Bono, & BMW is also in trouble with financial/stock regulators for falsifying their sales numbers.

I think Bono meant that BMW varies GVWR, not that they intentionally deceive. The Dieselgate situation was a little different IMO. No comment on the charge of inflating sales numbers, I haven't seen a resolution of that one yet. It has been pretty common across the industry over the past decades, though, so I wouldn't be shocked.

My X3 had a payload sticker (1100 lbs IIRC, pretty good for a vehicle built on a 3 series sedan) that was the same on all versions. When I went to purchase two replacement rear coil springs (plastic coating cracked, rust on the last two inches where they seated, a common issue) I found out that there were a very large number of different springs offered. They had to be ordered by VIN. The differences were for every option combination. Panoramic sunroof? No problem. Heavier spring. This resulted in a wide range of GVWRs, with the same payload. I was told innumerable times on this board, by people familiar with US truck manufacturer standards, that my (heavily optioned) vehicle had a lower payload than the spec sheet. I eventually posted a picture of the yellow sticker. As long as BMW certified the highest GVWR, or had multiple certifications, it wasn't wrong at all. As Bono noted, not many BMW purchasers cared about payload.

It was similar to when they sold me a 535 twin turbo and said it had 300 hp. People noted the acceleration times, immediately put them on dynos and then asked BMW how they were getting close to 100% drive train efficiency. They weren't, of course. BMW was simply publishing a lower hp for the 3.0 twin turbo, presumably because the M3 cost more, without much more hp, and it looked bad. It wasn't illegal, it was just marketing.