Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[mikextr]

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd

Towing an Overlander I would be more worried about sway control than hitch weight. The dry trailer has 6.75% on the tongue, i.e., less than the commonly recommended 10-15%.

You are right. I'm buying a Hayes SwayMaster today.

[Ohiobrits]

Originally Posted by mikextr

I



My final thoughts on the subject are that it’s just silly to add a WD hitch to a Cayenne for towing loads within its rated capacity when a WD hitch is entirely unnecessary and the manufacturer says not to use one.

Obviously you have made up your mind about not using a WD hitch which is fine.

However just to be clear to others reading this it is absolutely not "silly" to add a WD hitch to a Cayenne or any other tow vehicle bar some of the HD trucks. Your Cayenne I'm sure tows well without but I suggest you get someone that knows what they are doing to set up a WD hitch and drive it. You will then understand.

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by mikextr

You are right. I'm buying a Hayes SwayMaster today.

The Hayes applies all of your trailer brakes when when sway is detected. You might want to look at the Tuson Electronic Sway Control which applies only the trailer brakes on the side needed to control the sway.

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by mikextr

You are right. I'm buying a Hayes SwayMaster today.

I think electronic sway control is a good thing, but I would feel better if I also had at least 10% load on the tongue. I tow with 15% and I have never experienced sway. My TV manual says keep the load at 8-15%. I bet this is another of those controversial subjects.

U-Haul has a great demo on their website that shows what happens when you don't load properly.

[2011Cloud]

The lengthy thread on the merits and risks of WD is much appreciated. Remember we TDIers greatly benefit from a naturally contrarian view..... driven mostly by a need for a better way that is sometimes interpreted as rude. The take-aways were worth the troubles caused.

On a related track, am interviewing local machine shops to trim a couple inches off the shank and re-drill the pin hole. Expecting resistance related to liability. Some thoughts would be appreciated....... CanAm is not an option.

Anybody experience oil consumption (about a quart / 10k miles) while towing? Zero oil consumption without tow. 2016 Treg with 30k miles, 5.5k lb. bamby.

[Mergatroyd]

Truly a statement of wisdom.

I cut off my 2x2 shank with a Sawzall. It took about 5 blades.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by mikextr

Ok. I'll check the sticker on the hitch later. If WD ratings are listed, then you can tell me what your favorite WD hitch is and I will buy one. I'm out of warranty anyway.

At our SoCal PCA Concours & other P-car events, & as we've been looking for one to buy - I've looked at the factory hitches' stickers on everything from the early Series 1 (2003-06) up to the current series 2 or 3 or 4 - however you want to class their Cayenne 2015-16 & they all list WD & non-WD.

Go back & read the earlier posts on the matter....

& email to Andy T. at CanAm: http://www.canamrv.ca/

Cayenne TDI with WD & AS at the Hitch Hints article (usually starts on pg. 6 or 8) -
http://rvlifemag.dgtlpub.com/?i=2546

And do some reading folks:
http://www.canamrv.ca/blog/category/hitch-hints/

http://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/hitc...izing-hitches/

.... and here in the Hitch Hints article on choosing a WD hitch -
http://rvlifemag.dgtlpub.com/?i=3186

http://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/hitc...lk250-bluetec/

http://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/hitc...esel-suvs-414/


BTW - I have a Hensley Cub ("Arrow Jr.") rated for trailers up to 6000# & 600# HW, their Arrow goes up to 10 or 14,000# 1000-1400# HW for bigger trailers. ProPride makes a similar Hensley designed hitch as another PPP hitch alternative.

There are many people on here already towing with V/A/P SUVs & other Euro SUVs using WD/AS hitches

And Rostam - yes they were outlawed by country in the 1960's - NOT a myth, & as the other post above says - this is now wrapped into a EU rule for all EU countries.

Geesh!!!! - this is NOT new people!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[2012FB]

Originally Posted by 2011Cloud

The lengthy thread on the merits and risks of WD is much appreciated. Remember we TDIers greatly benefit from a naturally contrarian view..... driven mostly by a need for a better way that is sometimes interpreted as rude. The take-aways were worth the troubles caused.

On a related track, am interviewing local machine shops to trim a couple inches off the shank and re-drill the pin hole. Expecting resistance related to liability. Some thoughts would be appreciated....... CanAm is not an option.

Anybody experience oil consumption (about a quart / 10k miles) while towing? Zero oil consumption without tow. 2016 Treg with 30k miles, 5.5k lb. bamby.

I have done several of mine. If you want to ship just the shank to me I am happy to modify it. PM me if you want. I am in Denver.

[MsTara]

Originally Posted by mikextr

Wow! I take issue with the first line of your reply. It's just mean spirited and ill informed to imply that I am putting my family or anyone else at risk when I am towing my AS. The Porsche engineers in Stuttgart have determined, using sound methods of engineering, testing, and analysis, that my Cayenne has a safe towing capacity of 7700lbs and a max tongue weight of 750lbs. The Porsche engineers have also made it clear that one should NOT use a WD hitch with a Cayenne or Treg. As long as I am towing within the parameters established by the Porsche engineers, I am towing safely.

As for the second part of your post, nowhere did I say anything about pushing a vehicle beyond its rated capabilities so why you included the VW bug nonsense is beyond me.

MikeXtr I also tow with a Porsche (Macan S). My car has no call out in regards to the WD/Sway bars so the BS about the reason they say NO is because it is illegal in Europe is, well BS. However, the ill informed people on this forum with their "feelings" and "Opinions" that belittled the engineers at Porsche, which is rated as one of the best sports engineered vehicles in the world as well as having some pretty amazing engineering degrees, is one of the reasons why I have not posted as much on this forum lately. From telling me that I could "safely" tow a 19' even though my Tongue weight was rated at 441 and the 19' was rated at >500, to it would all be okay if I just got that Weight Distribution system that was their personal favorite.

The answer from Porsche was NO, it was not safe to exceed Tongue Weight. NO, the WD that was recommended would be tough on the sports suspension and find something that was easier on the car as it was not engineered for that type of torque. NO, my warranty wouldn't cover me if I exceeded the limits of my car.

The Porsche makes an AMAZING tow vehicle. Nimble, excellent horse power, amazing stopping capability, and yes it can be safe if you listen to the engineers.

There is only one person that is responsible for you and your families safety and that is the person driving the car. We are the only ones that can take the liability of exceeding the engineers limits and determine the cost to the long term health of our car as well as the impact to safety.

I have no opinion on the Cayenne utilizing a WD/Sway bar system as I only researched the Macan. However, take the internet pundits and their opinions as what they are. NOT the engineers of a very expensive, highly engineered sports vehicle that can also pull a really cool, highly engineered trailer.

I just wanted to speak up and support you as some of the comments in the last week have been vicious on this thread.

[mikextr]

Originally Posted by MsTara

MikeXtr I also tow with a Porsche (Macan S). My car has no call out in regards to the WD/Sway bars so the BS about the reason they say NO is because it is illegal in Europe is, well BS. However, the ill informed people on this forum with their "feelings" and "Opinions" that belittled the engineers at Porsche, which is rated as one of the best sports engineered vehicles in the world as well as having some pretty amazing engineering degrees, is one of the reasons why I have not posted as much on this forum lately. From telling me that I could "safely" tow a 19' even though my Tongue weight was rated at 441 and the 19' was rated at >500, to it would all be okay if I just got that Weight Distribution system that was their personal favorite.

The answer from Porsche was NO, it was not safe to exceed Tongue Weight. NO, the WD that was recommended would be tough on the sports suspension and find something that was easier on the car as it was not engineered for that type of torque. NO, my warranty wouldn't cover me if I exceeded the limits of my car.

The Porsche makes an AMAZING tow vehicle. Nimble, excellent horse power, amazing stopping capability, and yes it can be safe if you listen to the engineers.

There is only one person that is responsible for you and your families safety and that is the person driving the car. We are the only ones that can take the liability of exceeding the engineers limits and determine the cost to the long term health of our car as well as the impact to safety.

I have no opinion on the Cayenne utilizing a WD/Sway bar system as I only researched the Macan. However, take the internet pundits and their opinions as what they are. NOT the engineers of a very expensive, highly engineered sports vehicle that can also pull a really cool, highly engineered trailer.

I just wanted to speak up and support you as some of the comments in the last week have been vicious on this thread.

Thank you, MsTara. I appreciate your kind words and support. I too will take the recommendations of Porsche and ignore the internet WD fan boys. If I ever need to tow a heavier trailer, I will get a heavy duty truck.

Congrats on getting a Macan. I was provided with a Macan Base model as a loaner while my Cayenne was being serviced a few weeks ago. It was a pleasure to drive and I absolutely loved it. Oh, and they look amazing. Enjoy.

[dkottum]

For those of you who wish to risk towing without a w.d. hitch, you can improve any understeer your vehicle may encounter from a light steering axle by keeping the rear of our vehicle very light, little to nothing behind the tow vehicle's rear axles may help.

It really doesn't matter why a w.d. hitch is not used by you, it just should not be recommended as good travel trailer towing practice.

[mhutchinson]

Originally Posted by dasams

I have a Porsche and I've never seen documentation that one should not use a WD hitch. Source? Dave

The VW Touareg documentation originally stated no WD hitch but a later supplement removed that. I've not used one but many have - some with reinforcement and some without.

Matt

[bono]

Originally Posted by MsTara

(...)

The answer from Porsche was NO, it was not safe to exceed Tongue Weight. NO, the WD that was recommended would be tough on the sports suspension and find something that was easier on the car as it was not engineered for that type of torque. NO, my warranty wouldn't cover me if I exceeded the limits of my car.

Just to clarify, you asked Porsche whether it is OK to exceed tongue weight. Is this correct? What kind of answer did you expect to get?

Again, just to clarify, what kind of answer did you receive in relation to WD? "No, it it not allowed to use WD" or rather "it is not recommended"? Towing would be tough on any tow vehicle, regardless whether this is designed by wonderful engineers from Germany or from the US.

If you exceed "limits of your car", would Porsche void the whole warranty coverage? I do not thing so. First of all, they can void only coverage in relation to those parts which failed as a result of "the abuse". Unless you show up with a huge trailer at the dealership, how they would know whether you exceed e.g. tongue weight.

Just another example of so called FUD.

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by bono

Just to clarify, you asked Porsche whether it is OK to exceed tongue weight. Is this correct? What kind of answer did you expect to get?

Again, just to clarify, what kind of answer did you receive in relation to WD? "No, it it not allowed to use WD" or rather "it is not recommended"? Towing would be tough on any tow vehicle, regardless whether this is designed by wonderful engineers from Germany or from the US.

If you exceed "limits of your car", would Porsche void the whole warranty coverage? I do not thing so. First of all, they can void only coverage in relation to those parts which failed as a result of "the abuse". Unless you show up with a huge trailer at the dealership, how they would know whether you exceed e.g. tongue weight.

Just another example of so called FUD.

In Germany people routinely travel 150 mph on the autobahn. Maybe there's a problem with WD hitches when you go 150.

[bono]

The general speed limit when towing is 50 mph in Germany and most of EU countries.

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by bono

The general speed limit when towing is 50 mph in Germany and most of EU countries.

Towing at 50 mph I don't think it matters much if you have WD or not. It's almost like you're not moving at all.

The biggest problem is going out to pass and then you realize the guy coming up in the fast lane is doing 150 mph.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd

Towing an Overlander I would be more worried about sway control than hitch weight. The dry trailer has 6.75% on the tongue, i.e., less than the commonly recommended 10-15%.

With our 23' we are at the other end of the scale closer to the 15% number.

[bono]

The slower, the more stable. Such limits are necessary given the light tongue weight of the European trailers (and the light TW result from lack of WDH). I do not see any problem with towing a trailer doing 50 mph. I am not in rush..

It is not that common that people are doing 150 mph. First of all, only small percentage of the cars on the roads can potentially do 150 mph. Second, it is only Germany where there are no speed limits on the autobahns. Third, some may say that drivers in Europe are more predictable than in the US, slower traffic is keeping right, etc.

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd

Towing at 50 mph I don't think it matters much if you have WD or not. It's almost like you're not moving at all.

The biggest problem is going out to pass and then you realize the guy coming up in the fast lane is doing 150 mph.

[cedonly]

We tow with a 2012 Cayenne hybrid. It has the same supercharged v6 as in an s4. It tows just fine in Colorado/Wyoming .. gas mileage is 14; not towing it is 25

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by bono

The slower, the more stable. Such limits are necessary given the light tongue weight of the European trailers (and the light TW result from lack of WDH). I do not see any problem with towing a trailer doing 50 mph. I am not in rush..

It is not that common that people are doing 150 mph. First of all, only small percentage of the cars on the roads can potentially do 150 mph. Second, it is only Germany where there are no speed limits on the autobahns. Third, some may say that drivers in Europe are more predictable than in the US, slower traffic is keeping right, etc.

Last time I was on the autobahn I was going 140 mph and people were whizzing past me.