Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Audi Q7 owners

[Ohiobrits]

Originally Posted by bono

I am 100% sure that I can’t add any more washers… You are correct, the pin and washers are at the top. I was thinking that since you may have different distance between the tilt bolt and the pin, you are getting different angle for the stinger vs. this second metal part that goes to the receiver (hitch bar?). If the angle is higher, you may be able to add more washers. Just my speculations without looking the hitch. I am not sure if I need more tilt. I need to visit CAT scales. I am cranking my bars approx. 4 inches and have an impression that I am transferring too much to the front. Again, need to visit CAT scales… maybe this weekend after weekend camping trip.

Yes - a trip to the CAT scale is a good idea. Are you familiar with the 3 weight method? TV and trailer hitched w WD, TV and trailer w/o WD and finally TV on its own (leave stinger in the receiver). You need 3 weighs to get the tongue weight and true trailer weight.

[AirDFW]

What is the recommended setup for a 2011 Cayenne S with steel spring suspension pulling a 2015 International Signature 27FB? (WD / LB hitch, other items)

Any experiences with a steel sprung 2011+ Cayenne S and the 27FB would be very welcome also!

Can this be done well without any mods to the TV or trailer? Seemed to be much talk of this and not sure if that was out of tinkering fun or necessity.

This is a great forum! I made it through 13 pages of posts dating back to 2015 and couldn't find a consensus recommendation on these items. Help appreciated!

[Ohiobrits]

Originally Posted by AirDFW

What is the recommended setup for a 2011 Cayenne S with steel spring suspension pulling a 2015 International Signature 27FB? (WD / LB hitch, other items)

Any experiences with a steel sprung 2011+ Cayenne S and the 27FB would be very welcome also!

Can this be done well without any mods to the TV or trailer? Seemed to be much talk of this and not sure if that was out of tinkering fun or necessity.

This is a great forum! I made it through 13 pages of posts dating back to 2015 and couldn't find a consensus recommendation on these items. Help appreciated!

AirDFW, I believe my MY (2014) is the same as the 2011 so you and I have the same steel springs. My Cayenne is an absolute pleasure as a TV and downright "sporty" hitched up on twisty back roads. Completely secure handling.

Can-Am (the recognized experts in TV setup) will set up their TV's with an Eaz-Lift hitch and (for a 27) 2 x Husky friction sway control units. Set the ball on the Eaz-Lift with the max rearward rake to enable good WD. If possible have the shank re-drilled to get it as close to the receiver as possible. Knuff has this setup - some pics above. He had Can-Am send a custom welded Eaz-Lift with redrilled shank. I towed with an Eaz-Lift and 2 x Husky anti-away units for a while and it worked well. I upgraded to a ProPride after a few weeks - I had had my heart set on one from the outset. Picture below of a Can-Am Eaz-Lift setup (custom welded hitch) - see how close it is to the receiver? Perfect set-up.

The ProPride will give you some extra safety albeit with more weight (and cost!) I would highly recommend a ProPride. I have zero regrets about the near $3k price. The difference between an expertly setup Eaz-Lift and a ProPride is probably only 5%. For me the security of the hitch and complete elimination of sway is worth it, particularly if you tow a little faster than the average Airstreamer. Since your ride is a Porsche thats a given right? Obviously always tow at a speed suitable for the conditions, traffic, grade etc, etc....be safe!

Your payload will be limited. Should be just fine if you are traveling with you and one other person in the TV. in this case no mods to the trailer should be required. If you will have another person in the TV some AS tongue weight reduction may be a good idea. Moving the battery rearward (under the bed or to the rear), replacing with Lithiums (much lighter) and/or deletion of the AS spare tire are good strategies to reduce tongue weight. I would, however, set things up and try as-is first. Take a trip to a CAT scale and play around with setup until you get equal squat front and rear on your TV and some good transfer of weight back to the trailer. Check axle loads and vehicle weight and see where your are at. The key will be to get lots of WD applied.

Having the receiver reinforced (many details above) for a 27 is recommended. If you have time and are close enough, a trip to Can-Am will get all this taken care of and the set up dialed in by the experts.

[dasams]

Originally Posted by Ohiobrits

If possible have the shank re-drilled to get it as close to the receiver as possible.

I agree that moving the ball closer to the receiver is good but can it be too close? If you crank your steering full lock, does your bumper hit the A frame or LP storage walls?

[dkottum]

It's much more desirable to put the ball close to the bumper as possible to reduce sway leverage to the steering axle, than worry about backing angle. At that point you're rotating the railer more than backing it anyway, a poor backing maneuver that can result in bent hitch parts and twisted trailer tires (tandem axle trailers) even before contacting the trailer shell.

[dasams]

Originally Posted by dkottum

It's much more desirable to put the ball close to the bumper as possible to reduce sway leverage to the steering axle, than worry about backing angle.

Agreed and I've shortened my shank such that the center of the ball is 8-1/8" from the bumper.

One thing I like about my Cayenne is the small 19' turning radius. However, I'm now in a position that if I lock the steering wheel to make a U-turn, the bumper touches the wall of the propane storage. Not a big deal but if the ball was any closer to the bumper, the turning radius would be compromised.

[vinstream]

Custom made towing mirrors for the VW R50 reflects the Globe Traveler and colorful landscape...

[Cbfreq]

I read this entire thread with great interest the day after I purchased a Touareg to pull my Airstream trailer. I thought I was being at least a little bit original but I was happy to see a large knowledge base out there to help me. My original intention was to pull the Airstream with an Audi A8 but my wife was not comfortable with the size difference between the trailer and the car. The trailer is a 1975 31ft. I look forward to the opinions of anybody willing to give one. That is the time i have tonight but i will soon ask for help with some details i have yet to pin down.

[2012FB]

Been there done that. 1975 31' is way too much trailer for a Touareg even with the hitch reinforced (which is mandatory but expressly prohibited by VW). I took a big hit going from our 2014 ML350 to a 2015 Silverado HD when we upgraded from our 2012 25' FB to the 30' Bunk. Sorry just my personal experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[dasams]

Originally Posted by Cbfreq

I read this entire thread with great interest the day after I purchased a Touareg to pull my Airstream trailer... a 1975 31ft.

It's not just the hitch weight but the payload and axel ratings that may be exceeded. But I'm not familiar with the older AS and maybe they are lighter.

[Cbfreq]

The trailer weighs less than 7000 pounds and the Tongue weight is less than 600 pounds.I got that from a worksheet that the former owner had filled out but I did not see the weight scale ticket.I was under the impression that the older airstreams weigh less than the newer airstreams.My employer from when I was driving truck has scales so I was going to go there and check it out soon.He will not charge me a penny and I can take my time and get all the measurements I want.I am a little concerned about the short wheelbase of the TV and the long 31 foot trailer giving me problems with sway.Is it just the Porsche or does the tourag have an anti-lock brake/ stability system that senses Sway and applies the brakes on the outside wheel of the TV to counteract it? Either way I was thinking about using two friction sway control units.On an unrelated issue I have a trailer interface module but I cannot seem to find the harness that goes from the trailer interface module back to the towbar for a reasonable price, VW wants $450. Thank you to both of the posters that replied I appreciate your input.

Don

[Ohiobrits]

Cbfreq,

Take a look at the thread "Weight Dustribution Hitch Setting" post 34 for a thorough description of how to set up a WD hitch by Andy at Can-Am. It's in the "Hitches, Couplers and ball" sub forum of the Towing forum

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ml#post1862057 .

This provides all you need to know to set your rig up. I personally like to weigh the combination to verify axle loading etc once setup to see where a good feeling setup is relative to actuals for future ref but the procedure gives you all you need to know.

Relative to the AS you are looking at you should have no problems relative to weight or length provided you get your hitch set up correctly (see above). I tow a 7400 lb (fully loaded) 27FB (28ft) International with tongue weight in the 800 lb range and am very pleased with the setup. The extra length of your combination should not be an issue provided you get the hitch setup right and use some friction anti sway units (2 for this length) or a PPP hitch.

If you need some specific advice Andy at Can-Am will provide input.

There are some photos of Andy's setup of a 30ft AS above (I think it was a 30 from memory) hitched to a Cayenne that was done for Porsche.

Enjoy.

[cedonly]

Originally Posted by Cbfreq

The trailer weighs less than 7000 pounds and the Tongue weight is less than 600 pounds.I got that from a worksheet that the former owner had filled out but I did not see the weight scale ticket.I was under the impression that the older airstreams weigh less than the newer airstreams.My employer from when I was driving truck has scales so I was going to go there and check it out soon.He will not charge me a penny and I can take my time and get all the measurements I want.I am a little concerned about the short wheelbase of the TV and the long 31 foot trailer giving me problems with sway.Is it just the Porsche or does the tourag have an anti-lock brake/ stability system that senses Sway and applies the brakes on the outside wheel of the TV to counteract it? Either way I was thinking about using two friction sway control units.On an unrelated issue I have a trailer interface module but I cannot seem to find the harness that goes from the trailer interface module back to the towbar for a reasonable price, VW wants $450. Thank you to both of the posters that replied I appreciate your input.

Don

I went thru retrofitting a tow package on a Cayenne. It will be similar (electronically) on a Tourag. The parts are not cheap and the system runs thru the Can/BUS system. So the electronic brake controller plugs in by the driver and has to get wired to get the brake signal and also to send the correct signal to the 7 pin.... I believe all that is controlled thru the can/bus system.

Your other option is to bypass the can/bus all together and route the wiring all back to the rear lights and hardwire the 7pin connector and bypass the can/bus.

Regarding the sway. I believe the concern is that the trailer has sway. The cayenne or Tourag stability control system controls the stability of the TV. The force diagram of a trailer swaying is coupled to the TV thru a pin joint (the hitch),and the forces are in the cross-road direction. That force is a coupling of momentum (M*V). The short wheel base and contact patch area of the TV tires are not desirable to control sway of a trailer. Having sufficient tongue weight (10-15%) is necessary to move the center of mass forward on the trailer itself to shorten the effective moment arm of forces to induce the sway.

In my opinion that is the real safety question of pulling a large trailer... I believe that the Cayenne or Tourage has the ability to pull sub 7000 pounds and since the trailer has brakes, it is probably safe at braking that trailer in may conditions, but the limitation will be having sufficient tongue weight vs. gross trailer vehicle weight.

So if a Tourage has a 750LB tongue weight limit (if you read the threads, this is correlated back to axel weight limits... pending some assumptions about cargo in the TV)... then a gross vehicle weight for 15% is 5000lb and 7500lb for 10%.

I have never tried it, but Hayes does make a dynamic brake sway controller to control the trailer brakes if it senses sway on the trailer. It connects in-line between the ECB and the trailer brakes. This may be a better option because it applies a force at the trailer wheels where you have the best chance of creating an opposing torque (perpendicular distance * force) to counteract the forces creating the sway. I think the cost is around $350

[bono]

Use ProPride or Hensley and you will not experience sway. I towed 33 ft long trailer with BMW X5 through strong cross-winds, including those in Wyoming. Sway is not an issue with these hitches. And this was not with Airstream, but SOB which has worse aerodynamic profile.

[i2oadRunnei2]

FWIW, in response to Don and his newly acquired AS, I also vote to get a WD for safety sake. I have a 2014 Touareg TDI pulling a 23D and I currently use Equal-i-zer, so far so good and tad bit cheaper than other brands.

[Cbfreq]

I have ay small budget for my travel trailer. My first Airstream which I call the wrinkled Twinkie I bought off the side of the road for $700. But I wanted a mid seventies 31 foot with awnings on both sides aluminum propane tanks and aluminum wheels in good enough shape to use as purchased. I bid $4,000 on more than 30 Trailers on eBay that met that criteria. The one that I finally got was in better shape then most of the ones I did not win. We have taken the wrinkled Twinkie To Ely Minnesota Which is a 150 mile trip for us. I also used it as a place to stay when I was working two hundred and fifty miles from home. It was a year-and-a-half ago when we got the 31-foot, we have taken it to Mount Rushmore and too many u.s. forest service and State Forest Campgrounds near our home. Until a few weeks ago we had to borrow vehicles to pull our trailers. I am a professional auto mechanic so I have many friends and relatives Willing to allow me to use their vehicles intrade for Discounts on service and repair.

I like the fact that the bulbs are monitored when using the trailer interface module and I also like the shift strategies and different engine management strategies via the can bus interface. All I need is the plug for the trailer interface module and I can build the rest of the harness back to the tow bar myself.

My Touareg has the same contact patch as my brother's Expedition but with the shorter side wall I believe it is more resistant to side loading. It has comparable or better brakes also.

I thought that there was an Airstream accessorie That used the trailer brakes to control sway. My dream would be to design or adapt anti- lock trailer brake system with built-in sway control. How about disc brakes. Those things would be for another thread, as I would not want to hijack this thread.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed their opinions on my situation and I apologize for the speech to text system I am using to write this.

[Cbfreq]

2008 Porsche Cayenne marketing info.

"Trailer Stability Control detects any pendulum motion on the trailer and intervenes by applying the brakes
individually as required in the interest of enhanced brake stability."

[2012FB]

Do not bypass the factory tow package with integrated sway control. I was using a recommended sway control WD pulling the 30' Bunk with the ML350 and came out from under an over pass in the middle of a curve when a very strong prairie gust of wind sent the whole rig into an very sudden and violent sway that was only saved by the factory sway control. There was absolutely no way I could have saved it. I would have wrecked for sure if not for the factory sway control system fully engaging. My hands never left the steering wheel and I regularly practice the trailer brake grab.

Though I am adamantly apposed from a personal experience/opinion standpoint if you are going to insist, install the factory tow/sway control system then have Andy at CANAM reinforce the hitch (he did my ML350), and use a Pro-Pride with 1,200 - 1,400 pound bars. I went Pro-Pride after I almost wrecked above. There is no comparison to the safety and stability period. Even after buying the 2015 Chevrolet 2500 HD I still use the Pro-Pride.

All is well until you are put into emergency situations. With the ML350 pulling the 30' I never felt safe. I will take the security and safety of my larger TV with the larger trailers. It has been repeatedly demonstrated over the years that you can pull an airstream with anything. Does not make it safe for you or often more importantly others.

[kayakbuddy]

Getting a 2015 VW Touareg tdi to pull possible 5500 pound TT. Concerned about loss of driver assist, safety lane changing, and Adaptive Cruise Control features when towing. Does anyone have experience using these features while under tow? Thanks

[MsTara]

KayakBuddy,

First: Make sure you have one of these: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Second: Make sure the receiver is actually installed (my Porsche did not have it)

So, I just towed with my Macan and it also turns off all those items. However, I never used the lane change assist as I KNEW it wouldn't take into account my Airstream. I had extended tow mirrors and they were life savers. I really want the camera for the back of the Airstream and am still researching.

Adaptive Cruise Control. I didn't once use my Cruise Control while doing my first tow so I cannot respond. My understanding is you will STILL have cruise control, just not the adaptive. If you get the plug in I linked above, it will automatically adjust your cars electronics, even if you don't have the tow vehicle attached. This will allow you to understand how the car will respond.

The interesting thing that surprised me (and I need to get more tow experience with my car to research) if that I had the Prodigy RF Brake Controller. When I turned on my emergency flashers, the Airstream brakes came on to slow the vehicle (brake start/stop as if you were doing a controlled brake slow).

Not sure if any of this made sense or helped.

MsTara

Originally Posted by kayakbuddy

Getting a 2015 VW Touareg tdi to pull possible 5500 pound TT. Concerned about loss of driver assist, safety lane changing, and Adaptive Cruise Control features when towing. Does anyone have experience using these features while under tow? Thanks