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Old 04-02-2019, 04:17 PM   #1
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Payload and SUVs

I'm shopping for an SUV as a potential TV. I'm looking at the door stickers, reading the manufacturer's specs, etc.

Today, I looked at an SUV that has a manufacturer's spec of:

"Maximum Towing of 7716 lbs."

"Maximum coupling point/nose weight of 771 lbs"

The "Tire and Loading" information sticker on the driver's door states: "The combined weight of passengers and cargo should never exceed 826 lbs (emphasis added)

The GVWR sticker on the driver's door states: "6,724 lbs"

So, if I start with an allowable payload of 826 lbs. and use 771 lbs. for the tongue weight ("maximum coupling point/nose weight"), that leaves 55 lbs. for all the cargo + all passengers (including driver)?

Really?????

What am I missing here?

Cheers,
Bryan
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Old 04-02-2019, 05:10 PM   #2
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What size Airstream are you wanting to tow?
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Old 04-02-2019, 05:12 PM   #3
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You are reading that payload information correctly (yellow sticker).

Sounds like that particular vehicle may have a bunch of accessories / options that are eating up the payload capacity by raising the curb weight.

Tow ratings are often set based on the base vehicle, 2WD, no options, etc.. "art of the possible" number so to speak.

826lbs seems very low though. Thats more in line with a compact sedan.

This thread will now become a debate whether that yellow sticker really matters, vs the Front and Rear Gross Axle Weight Ratings...
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Old 04-02-2019, 05:47 PM   #4
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What is unresolved in all of the threads where payload was a topic, is that the yellow sticker states that the rating is based on a certain tire, a P rated tire in the case on my Tundra, yet there is no information on the impact of changing to a higher load tire, e.g., Load Range E. The manufacture is silent on this question.

At least I have not seen any information that was definitive on this.
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Old 04-02-2019, 07:13 PM   #5
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I find it really odd.

This vehicle is not loaded with a bunch of options. It does have a 3.0 Liter diesel.

But, it doesn't even have the optional 3rd row seat. So, it is a 5 passenger SUV.

TBD, but I will be towing either a FC 23' CB or a FC 25' FB (twin).

And yes, I've studied the specs on both of those trailers , including their Hitch Weights (and there is a big difference in Hitch Weights between those two trailers).

Cheers,

Bryan
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Old 04-02-2019, 08:00 PM   #6
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FWIW Airstream underestimates the tongue weight of the 25FB. My 25FBT is speced at 835 lb. but the actual measured tongue weight with a full fresh water tank is 1040.
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Old 04-02-2019, 08:15 PM   #7
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Ouch. That additional tongue weight you've measured is indeed significant.

Have you done anything to redistribute or reduce that amount?

Cheers,

Bryan
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Old 04-02-2019, 08:43 PM   #8
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I am not sure one wants to reduce the tongue weight. I would rather pick a TV that can carry it. Not sure I would buy a marginal TV without having the actual trailer tongue weight and weight.
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Old 04-03-2019, 04:50 AM   #9
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The TV you are considering is a diesel, and that Diesel engine weighs significantly more than a gasser. Check the door sticker on the same vehicle with a gas engine, and I think you will find your missing payload.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklab View Post
Ouch. That additional tongue weight you've measured is indeed significant.

Have you done anything to redistribute or reduce that amount?

Cheers,

Bryan
I believe most of the tongue weight is from fresh water and the front-bed design. We don't pack the front cabinets full at all and there is nothing in the center isle. Our tongue weight is 15.3% of trailer weight, which is within our comfort level. The 25FB and 27FB both have similar tongue weights, and several have posted theirs around 1000 lb.

By the way, we picked the 25FB over the 25RB because the FB has a second large window in the dining area.
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpm View Post
I believe most of the tongue weight is from fresh water and the front-bed design. We don't pack the front cabinets full at all and there is nothing in the center isle. Our tongue weight is 15.3% of trailer weight, which is within our comfort level. The 25FB and 27FB both have similar tongue weights, and several have posted theirs around 1000 lb.

By the way, we picked the 25FB over the 25RB because the FB has a second large window in the dining area.
My 2017 FC25FB also weighs 1040# on the tongue with a Propride hitch and 940# with a Blue Ox Swaypro. I've done all the possible weight shifting and even reduced the weight by going to 20# propane tanks (50# savings in total). I try to pack lightweight bulky items under the bed and heavier items mid-trailer. I used to have a payload challenged truck and every pound I could shift away from the tongue was important to me. FC25FBs have heavy tongues.

Also, I've weighed my FC25FB with and without fresh water. The tongue weight does not change either way as the fresh water tank is mounted directly between the axles. I prefer traveling with a full fresh water tank as it lowers the center of gravity which makes the Airstream more stable.
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Old 04-04-2019, 11:18 AM   #12
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I have a 25FB and reduced the loaded hitch weight to 890lbs by moving the batteries over the axles, relocated the spare tire to the rear underbelly behind the axles and replaced the 30# tanks with 20# tanks. I load heavy items in the rear and bulky ones up front when possible. I tow with a 3.0l diesel and it works well for me. I never get close to the 7200# max usually 6500# loaded and have empty black and grey tanks.
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Old 04-04-2019, 11:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklab View Post
I'm shopping for an SUV as a potential TV. I'm looking at the door stickers, reading the manufacturer's specs, etc.

Today, I looked at an SUV that has a manufacturer's spec of:

"Maximum Towing of 7716 lbs."

"Maximum coupling point/nose weight of 771 lbs"

The "Tire and Loading" information sticker on the driver's door states: "The combined weight of passengers and cargo should never exceed 826 lbs (emphasis added)

The GVWR sticker on the driver's door states: "6,724 lbs"

So, if I start with an allowable payload of 826 lbs. and use 771 lbs. for the tongue weight ("maximum coupling point/nose weight"), that leaves 55 lbs. for all the cargo + all passengers (including driver)?

Really?????

What am I missing here?

Cheers,
Bryan
Is this a Grand Cherokee?
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Old 04-04-2019, 11:46 AM   #14
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Old Fart advise...

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklab View Post
I'm shopping for an SUV as a potential TV. I'm looking at the door stickers, reading the manufacturer's specs, etc.

Today, I looked at an SUV that has a manufacturer's spec of:

"Maximum Towing of 7716 lbs."

"Maximum coupling point/nose weight of 771 lbs"

The "Tire and Loading" information sticker on the driver's door states: "The combined weight of passengers and cargo should never exceed 826 lbs (emphasis added)

The GVWR sticker on the driver's door states: "6,724 lbs"

So, if I start with an allowable payload of 826 lbs. and use 771 lbs. for the tongue weight ("maximum coupling point/nose weight"), that leaves 55 lbs. for all the cargo + all passengers (including driver)?

Really?????

What am I missing here?

Cheers,
Bryan
Brian,

I would shop the AS you want, get the factory spec for TW, add 500lb and buy the TV that fits.

TV requires LT tires D or E rated, capable of towing 9k, have at least a class 3 receiver, hitch with good WD and anti-sway capability.👍

FWIW...we use a 2500 '06 Suburban 8.1, (extinct)🥴

You...Black Lab, we Black PWD

Bob
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Old 04-04-2019, 11:46 AM   #15
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Suv + fc23fb

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklab View Post
I'm shopping for an SUV as a potential TV. I'm looking at the door stickers, reading the manufacturer's specs, etc.

Today, I looked at an SUV that has a manufacturer's spec of:

"Maximum Towing of 7716 lbs."

"Maximum coupling point/nose weight of 771 lbs"

The "Tire and Loading" information sticker on the driver's door states: "The combined weight of passengers and cargo should never exceed 826 lbs (emphasis added)

The GVWR sticker on the driver's door states: "6,724 lbs"

So, if I start with an allowable payload of 826 lbs. and use 771 lbs. for the tongue weight ("maximum coupling point/nose weight"), that leaves 55 lbs. for all the cargo + all passengers (including driver)?

Really?????

What am I missing here?

Cheers,
Bryan
Bryan, not sure which SUV youíre looking at but I had a similar vehicle and towed our FC23FB. It pulled and handled great with a Blue Ox Swap Pro. Attached are the tire and weigh stickers for the 2016 VW Touareg TDI. The tongue weight was closer to 700# loaded - payload capacity was 1168#.

We considered a FC25 but went back to the 23 due to the heavy tongue weight / payload capacity.
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Old 04-04-2019, 01:36 PM   #16
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OP - Part of what you are missing is that a weight distribution hitch moves some weight to the rear axle of the trailer. Assume 10-15%, but the actual result will vary with the amount of weight distribution you use. That does not help much, but remember you can put a lot of gear in the coach if you load it correctly. That does keep weight out of the TV. You can leave a lot of stuff at home, sometimes. You may get more payload if you don't add lots of options to the tow vehicle. Just remember that the WDSC hitch adds 80-180lbs to the rig.
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Old 04-04-2019, 03:20 PM   #17
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At least your asking the right questions now, before you purchase your TV....I got my first PU and F150 Echoboost Platinum, and pulled my 25' AS for 3 years before I realized the "Payload" sticker was only 1039lbs! Think about what your plan to bring along also; bbq, generator, gas or propane, firewood, kayaks or canoe?? In addition to weight added from this "stuff", add in the passengers, dog, and also the driver.... Many of us here learn about the Payload issues "after" we take the plunge...not even knowing the actual weight of the tongue of the trailer...do yourself a favor; understand the real tongue weight of the AS your thinking about purchasing, not the specification, but the actual weight;(many of us here on the Forum can share their same model info with you.) Once you have that info, you should verify the exact vehicle you are thinking you want to get for towing, and verify if all that "stuff" with your passengers weight will be under the rating...that's why many here end up with a truck. Good luck!
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Old 04-04-2019, 03:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklab View Post
I find it really odd.

This vehicle is not loaded with a bunch of options. It does have a 3.0 Liter diesel.

But, it doesn't even have the optional 3rd row seat. So, it is a 5 passenger SUV.

TBD, but I will be towing either a FC 23' CB or a FC 25' FB (twin).

And yes, I've studied the specs on both of those trailers , including their Hitch Weights (and there is a big difference in Hitch Weights between those two trailers).

Cheers,

Bryan
Again- hitch weights on the "specs" vs the "actual" tongue weights can vary over 100lbs easily...just be safe and get a TV with useable payload beyond what you think you will want to carry along..including passengers.
My actual tongue weight was 180+ lbs more than the specs when I weighed in.
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Old 04-04-2019, 07:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
Again- hitch weights on the "specs" vs the "actual" tongue weights can vary over 100lbs easily...just be safe and get a TV with useable payload beyond what you think you will want to carry along..including passengers.
My actual tongue weight was 180+ lbs more than the specs when I weighed in.
^
X2

Ours was 860 listed 1200 loaded for camping.

Bob
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Old 04-04-2019, 07:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
At least your asking the right questions now, before you purchase your TV....I got my first PU and F150 Echoboost Platinum, and pulled my 25' AS for 3 years before I realized the "Payload" sticker was only 1039lbs! Think about what your plan to bring along also; bbq, generator, gas or propane, firewood, kayaks or canoe?? In addition to weight added from this "stuff", add in the passengers, dog, and also the driver.... Many of us here learn about the Payload issues "after" we take the plunge...not even knowing the actual weight of the tongue of the trailer...do yourself a favor; understand the real tongue weight of the AS your thinking about purchasing, not the specification, but the actual weight;(many of us here on the Forum can share their same model info with you.) Once you have that info, you should verify the exact vehicle you are thinking you want to get for towing, and verify if all that "stuff" with your passengers weight will be under the rating...that's why many here end up with a truck. Good luck!
Not to sidetrack but I'm surprised at the low payload for your truck. I have the same truck, essentially (2017 ecoboost platinum F150) with most of the options and my payload is 1543lb. Moonroof, trailer tow package, package 701A. Maybe they boosted something up in the last few years.
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