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Old 04-05-2019, 10:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewTheDew View Post
Not to sidetrack but I'm surprised at the low payload for your truck. I have the same truck, essentially (2017 ecoboost platinum F150) with most of the options and my payload is 1543lb. Moonroof, trailer tow package, package 701A. Maybe they boosted something up in the last few years.
Your surprised?? Imagine how dumb I felt after driving around for 3 years with this payload....I carried a small generator, firewood, kayaks, dog, wife, etc...was always overloaded! I had a 2012 F150 EB 4x4 Supercrew short bed, Platinum, with all the options! After that experience and 5 years, 130K miles, I looked at ordering a new model F150 in 2017; I worked thru an order sheet with a pretty "smart" sales manager; to get above 1600lbs, we would have had to go with a Lariat model and give up some things...wife loves the power folding floorboards... When I did my "diligence" comparing Ford with GM, Dodge, and Toyota, I could not find a sales guy who really understood the actual "Payload" of their trucks; they would always tell me from their spec sheets, that their 1/2T trucks were "rated at 1900+lbs"....when I would challenge them to show me one on the lot, almost always the very nicely equipped models had very disappointing payloads of <1300lbs or so... I know today, that number is higher, but only recently has there been any real improvement....it was another reason we chose to go with the larger 3/4T F250 for our 28. I loved driving my F150, however when not towing.

Just to be clear, Ford and others have trimmed down some of the heavier items to improve payload today for sure...just pays to check the sticker...don't trust the sales folks! My 2012 was 1039lbs max payload on the sticker...I couldn't find the picture, but here is one from a loaded up Denali 2018 I took last year..
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:49 AM   #22
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Red Dragon has a payload capacity on the sticker of 1533lb. However, it has the optional 7700lb GVWR which when you look at the specs (Curb weight etc.) should add about 700lb to the capacity. Needless to say "Ford" would not comment on the difference arrived at in the specs. One thing I was told was that the rating of the tires (C-D-E) played in the computer calculations for payload. So we upgraded to E Rated tires, balance the load in the AS, keep the 'stuff' we carry in the TV in front of the rear axle and use a Reese dual cam WD. There is no doubt that figuring out what the TV can carry is a challenge because you need to include "EVERYTHING" in the TV (people, dog, cheesies [oops, only in Canada Eh!])
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:57 AM   #23
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Don't forget to think about trailer sway. It looks like your TV has a short wheelbase which makes it more vulnerable to trailer sway. I would highly recommend a Hensley Hitch. The difference is night and day compared with any other sway control system. It will definitely improve the towability of your trailer and mostly eliminate trailer sway and dramatically improve stability between both the TV and the trailer. I've owned and towed multiple trailers from 22ft to 35ft with small SUVs and large heavy diesel tow vehicles and wouldn't consider towing without it, especially with a smaller tow vehicle like yours.
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:08 AM   #24
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Check out this Canadian site videos and write ups about towing. They set my ford explore up to pull a 25’. It pulls like a dream.

Worth the read and watch.
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:51 AM   #25
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Airstream doesn't know what you are going to put in the trailer. I have read that the stated tongue weight is consistent with the unloaded base weight of the trailer. Since for stability it is advised to have a tongue weight of 10-15% of the trailer load, I always assume the trailer is loaded to the GVWR and take 12.5-15% of that for the tongue weight. Then you have to add the weight of WD hitch components that are attached to the truck in front of the trailer coupler. Common wisdom is, for the equalizer, the weight of the head and the bars. You can then subtract any weight that might get transferred to the trailer but it will likely be less than 100#.

On my 2006 F-150 the passengers and cargo number was in addition to a 150# driver and a full tank of fuel. Your TV may vary.

Al
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:54 AM   #26
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IMO you cannot go by door stickers. Manufacturer’s brochure differed substantially from door. Manufacturer’s website matched brochure and contacted their engineering through dealer and they confirmed brochure and website. Got a convoluted explanation as to why from both manufacturers. Numbers differed so much I assume, as intimated above, that generic door stickers are applied before customizations. Dealers I questioned went by brochure and downloaded engineering spreadsheet.
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Old 04-10-2019, 12:13 PM   #27
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SUVs

You may be trying to take a fish and make it a steak. I travel US as a consultant teaching Safe Towing Workshops to major utility companies. The first part of the course is to go with the Math and the Physis. The numbers don’t lie. Most SUVs are built for soccer moms and not made for towing. Their made for highway miles like going to the beach etc. Some of them are actually put on a car frame with car suspension. The manufacture (not the dealer) will tell you SUVs are not made nor designed for work. The put a high speed geared rear axle not designed for towing and made to get better gas mileage. You want a rear end in about 3:55 to 3:73 and you will not find that in a SUV and it won’t be a option. You hitch system should be at least 25-35 % greater that the load you plan to tow. Sound like the dealer may be pulling you chain a little. Your payload is the difference between the curb weight and the GWVR. You have to add passengers weight fuel and all other stuff including assessories like roof racks and bike racks and grill guards plus the round weight of the trailer. Oh, and make sure the trailer includes full tanks of gas on their number and the load leveler hitch weight and battery install weight. Some trailers like mine have the largest storage bin in the front of the trailer over the tongue.
Contact me at www.safetyinstitute.com if you have questions. Good luck on shopping for a TV. I’d think in terms of “I’m towing and that’s work”, so buy a vehicle designed for work.
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Old 04-10-2019, 12:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklab View Post
I find it really odd.

This vehicle is not loaded with a bunch of options. It does have a 3.0 Liter diesel.

But, it doesn't even have the optional 3rd row seat. So, it is a 5 passenger SUV.

TBD, but I will be towing either a FC 23' CB or a FC 25' FB (twin).

And yes, I've studied the specs on both of those trailers , including their Hitch Weights (and there is a big difference in Hitch Weights between those two trailers).

Cheers,

Bryan
We own a 2018 25Ft FBT International serenity. Tow ours with a 2014 Dodge Durango Citadel Hemi . It pulls like a dream plus The Durango Citadel Hemi is a luxury ride SUV. On average 14 Miles to the gallon. Very comfortable ride. Lots of room. Luke & Grace love it ( Vizslas).
We also have the twin bed set up .No disturbing the other sleeping since I am an early riser. We had a 22 ft Bambi loved it. When the second dog came we went up to the 25 ft and it is perfect .
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Old 04-10-2019, 12:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starpicker View Post
IMO you cannot go by door stickers. Manufacturer’s brochure differed substantially from door. Manufacturer’s website matched brochure and contacted their engineering through dealer and they confirmed brochure and website. Got a convoluted explanation as to why from both manufacturers. Numbers differed so much I assume, as intimated above, that generic door stickers are applied before customizations. Dealers I questioned went by brochure and downloaded engineering spreadsheet.
Not sure where you got that info? The door sticker with "Payload numbers" is supposed to show the "max payload" for that specific vehicle; not the brochure…each vehicle has different options down to the tires, and the "Payload" will likely be different on the door jam; even your car has this sticker with Payload information for that particular car.. Dealers and especially the sales guys don't really understand this...many threads about this topic here.
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Old 04-10-2019, 12:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
Not sure where you got that info? The door sticker with "Payload numbers" is supposed to show the "max payload" for that specific vehicle; not the brochure…each vehicle has different options down to the tires, and the "Payload" will likely be different on the door jam; even your car has this sticker with Payload information for that particular car..
I think the door jamb sticker is a good start, but manufacturing reps have previously confirmed for at least some models (Ram comes to mind) the production system that prints the labels isn't connected to the system that has the build consist, so they use an average option list to determine likely curb weight.

The accurate way is to look at the GVWR and then weigh the vehicle.
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Old 04-10-2019, 12:54 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
I think the door jamb sticker is a good start, but manufacturing reps have previously confirmed for at least some models (Ram comes to mind) the production system that prints the labels isn't connected to the system that has the build consist, so they use an average option list to determine likely curb weight.

The accurate way is to look at the GVWR and then weigh the vehicle.
No argument there, except by law, if the vehicle is modified say, by the dealers adding different wheels/tires, or other options, they are supposed to correct the sticker payload weight. I think you will find most folks agree the door jam sticker is pretty darned close.
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:00 PM   #32
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I've towed a 25 FB for eight years with a 2011 Nissan Armada and a Hensley/ProPride hitch, including the mountains of western N.C. many times. I went through all of the limits, including wheels and tires and found that we're good. Have run it across CAT scales empty and loaded - 2 adults and two small dogs with back of the Armada carefully packed with stuff (no loaded ice chests aft of the rear axle). Have had no problems of any kind. I do manually shift it a lot, especially in the mountains, both uphill and downhill, to keep it from lugging and from picking up too much speed.
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:10 PM   #33
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Shopping for a new tow, and in the few I've looked at, the SUVs (Tahoe, Expedition) had greater payload than the trucks I drove (half-ton Chevy, Ford and Dodge).

Go figure.
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:23 PM   #34
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I just went through this exercise configuring a tow vehicle for a second TT (non-airstream 16’ teardrop) so the issues are fresh in my mind. When I purchased our 2016 25FB we went through the same frustrations only we didn’t know enough to look at the door stickers and recognize anything was wrong. You have been given excellent advice here and hopefully you will be able to recognize which is worth following and be willing to do so. Despite trying very hard to buy an SUV, I ended-up with an F150 because I wanted either TV to tow either trailer should it come down to it. The minimum specs that would tow our Airstream with it’s 1000# tongue while fully loaded was a Lariat Max Tow F150 3.5 EcoBoost with a 1565# payload.. Ours happens to be a crew cab with 5.5’ bed because of our dogs but you can go smaller if you are willing to drop down a grade or two in the trim level. The higher the trim, the lower the payload. In the end, the F150 won out because the crew cab floor folded absolutely flat and the automatic sway control works.

One thing to be aware of is the hitch capacity. Check the sticker on whatever you are buying because I was surprised how many had two ratings. The one I expected which required a weight distribution hitch and a lower one which didn’t require anything.

There are two types of owners on the RV forums. The ones who stay within vehicle ratings and the ones who use their experience to judge what works and doesn’t . There is some logic to the idea that since a particular TV hasn’t been in a catastrophic accident that the selection is sound. On the other hand, we tend not to hear about those who had accidents or near-ones. I describe it to friends this way: Most any vehicle with a hitch capable of holding the trailer in place without falling off during the first mile will be able to tow for a second mile. Question becomes whether the brakes can stop it, the suspension can control it and the steering can manage it when passed by a tandem tractor trailer doing 80 or forced to make an emergency stopping maneuver.

I created the attached graphic to help me take weights when going over the scales because I kept on having to look up what I was supposed to do, how the weights interplayed and how I was configured for a particular weight. If it helps highlight the issues you are facing, great.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MQ_...ew?usp=sharing

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Old 04-10-2019, 01:45 PM   #35
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Shopping for a new tow, and in the few I've looked at, the SUVs (Tahoe, Expedition) had greater payload than the trucks I drove (half-ton Chevy, Ford and Dodge).

Go figure.
Thats why I like our '06 Burb, 1900lbs confirmed at the scales, not on the drivers door. 👍

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Old 04-10-2019, 02:43 PM   #36
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Interesting thing is factory "curb" weight. I took that to mean empty weight, but I couldn't find a definition in the owner's manual, so I finally called Nissan USA headquarters. After a few transfers, I reached someone in technical services who knew the answer. Turns out that, for our 2011 Armada anyway, curb weight is figured with a full tank of gas and a 150# driver. Which helps a bit since gas weighs approx. 6.3# per gallon (depending upon additives). Thus, our 28 gal fuel tank holds approx. 176 pounds. That, plus the 150# driver, amounts to 326# that's already figured into the "empty" weight.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:02 PM   #37
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But who drives with a full tank and just the driver?
What about how the vehicle is optioned?
I know of no company that provides weights for those.

Just like the tongue weights that AS supplies, curb weight is just a guess when the vehicle gets its sticker.🤔
Use as a guide only.🤓

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Old 04-10-2019, 03:18 PM   #38
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Agreed, and that's why I ran the vehicle across a CAT scale - loaded and "empty", with and without the trailer.

But at least I didn't have to add the weight of a passenger and the fuel to the empty (curb) weight when figuring my load inside the vehicle.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirstreamCSH View Post
I just went through this exercise configuring a tow vehicle for a second TT (non-airstream 16’ teardrop) so the issues are fresh in my mind. When I purchased our 2016 25FB we went through the same frustrations only we didn’t know enough to look at the door stickers and recognize anything was wrong. You have been given excellent advice here and hopefully you will be able to recognize which is worth following and be willing to do so. Despite trying very hard to buy an SUV, I ended-up with an F150 because I wanted either TV to tow either trailer should it come down to it. The minimum specs that would tow our Airstream with it’s 1000# tongue while fully loaded was a Lariat Max Tow F150 3.5 EcoBoost with a 1565# payload.. Ours happens to be a crew cab with 5.5’ bed because of our dogs but you can go smaller if you are willing to drop down a grade or two in the trim level. The higher the trim, the lower the payload. In the end, the F150 won out because the crew cab floor folded absolutely flat and the automatic sway control works.

One thing to be aware of is the hitch capacity. Check the sticker on whatever you are buying because I was surprised how many had two ratings. The one I expected which required a weight distribution hitch and a lower one which didn’t require anything.

There are two types of owners on the RV forums. The ones who stay within vehicle ratings and the ones who use their experience to judge what works and doesn’t . There is some logic to the idea that since a particular TV hasn’t been in a catastrophic accident that the selection is sound. On the other hand, we tend not to hear about those who had accidents or near-ones. I describe it to friends this way: Most any vehicle with a hitch capable of holding the trailer in place without falling off during the first mile will be able to tow for a second mile. Question becomes whether the brakes can stop it, the suspension can control it and the steering can manage it when passed by a tandem tractor trailer doing 80 or forced to make an emergency stopping maneuver.

I created the attached graphic to help me take weights when going over the scales because I kept on having to look up what I was supposed to do, how the weights interplayed and how I was configured for a particular weight. If it helps highlight the issues you are facing, great.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MQ_...ew?usp=sharing

That’s a really neat graphic, thanks for sharing! I’m a visual learner and this makes it easy to collect the numbers. By the way, I noticed the reference to an F250 in the graphic but you talk about an F150. Did you upgrade?
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:10 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starpicker View Post
IMO you cannot go by door stickers. Manufacturer’s brochure differed substantially from door. Manufacturer’s website matched brochure and contacted their engineering through dealer and they confirmed brochure and website. Got a convoluted explanation as to why from both manufacturers. Numbers differed so much I assume, as intimated above, that generic door stickers are applied before customizations. Dealers I questioned went by brochure and downloaded engineering spreadsheet.
You have this backwards. The door sticker is specific to the vehicle the sticker is applied to. It takes into account the vehicles exact build and options. The brochure is generic and usually is the figure for a stripped down, 2WD, standard cab.
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