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Old 08-25-2020, 04:17 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
We have setup a few X's with 22's. We build our own ball mount that keeps the ball very close and use a friction sway control. Normally I would never do this but the X is so stable the lack of weight distribution is barely noticeable.
I would agree on the X's stability. Before getting a WD hitch this summer, I towed for a a couple of months with a weight bearing hitch. Frankly, it was super stable. Only reason I ended up getting a WD hitch is 'just in case'.

Here's what my setup looks like. See photo.

I replaced the Bosal OEM hitch with a Draw-Tite hitch. So, no more receiver that's removable.

I then got the new True Tow WD hitch. It may be overkill but I liked how it weighs the tongue and then cranks up or down the lead screw to distribute weight accordingly. Downside is it's weight, the fact the bars are pretty stiff (though the manufacturer says they get dampened based on your weight settings) and it pushes the trailer away from the car quite a bit.

So, in your opinion, the X's air suspension could handle heavier TW as long as you stay within axle ratings?
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Old 08-25-2020, 04:21 PM   #62
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So, in your opinion, the X's air suspension could handle heavier TW as longer as you stay within axle ratings?
Someone's eyeing a bigger AS...
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Old 08-25-2020, 04:35 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by ohmman View Post
Someone's eyeing a bigger AS...
My heart says yes but my mind (and wife) says no. ;-)
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Old 08-25-2020, 04:39 PM   #64
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My heart says yes but my mind (and wife) says no. ;-)
I love our 22 Sport. That said, once/if I get my Rivian, I will be tempted to go for a 25' Globetrotter. So I get it.
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Old 08-25-2020, 06:50 PM   #65
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I love our 22 Sport. That said, once/if I get my Rivian, I will be tempted to go for a 25' Globetrotter. So I get it.
Truth be told, the Globetrotter line is also what Iím eyeing. Flipping back and forth between 25 and 27, major drawback of the latter being restricting your camping options. Not sure there would be a whole lot of difference in range once youíve gone to that width and weight bracket.

I think the R1T and R1S are gorgeous and full of attractive features for the camping lifestyle. Putting down a deposit has been on my to do list for a while. Loosing SuperChargers wouldnít bug you?
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Old 08-26-2020, 07:02 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by steilkurve View Post
I would agree on the X's stability. Before getting a WD hitch this summer, I towed for a a couple of months with a weight bearing hitch. Frankly, it was super stable. Only reason I ended up getting a WD hitch is 'just in case'.

Here's what my setup looks like. See photo.

I replaced the Bosal OEM hitch with a Draw-Tite hitch. So, no more receiver that's removable.

I then got the new True Tow WD hitch. It may be overkill but I liked how it weighs the tongue and then cranks up or down the lead screw to distribute weight accordingly. Downside is it's weight, the fact the bars are pretty stiff (though the manufacturer says they get dampened based on your weight settings) and it pushes the trailer away from the car quite a bit.

I would definitely change your weight distribution to one that keeps the ball much closer to the bumper. That is way too much additional overhang. That leverage is putting extra pressure on your receiver and eliminating any gain you have with weight distribution. I would suggest a simple Eaz-Lift 600 Elite. I have a sheet that explains how to set the torsion bars with Air Suspension if you like I can email it to you andy@canamrv.ca.

For a 27' I doubt that the Rivian will be as good a tow vehicle as the Model X. The extra battery capacity will be used up by the additional drag so your recharge times will be longer. Handling won't be nearly as good due to the higher roll center and my guess is inferior suspension.

So, in your opinion, the X's air suspension could handle heavier TW as long as you stay within axle ratings?
Correct, about 1/3rd of the hitch weight is transferred back to the trailer tires when you set up correctly.
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Old 08-27-2020, 07:12 PM   #67
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Our Tesla Experiment

Andrew- I donít want to nit pick and this may be a typo but the front axle weight of 2460 slightly exceeds the axle capacity of 2447.

Thanks for performing this real world testing. This is what is needed to make the engineering improvements.

I would love to be around in 20 years to see what we are towing with.

Dan
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Old 08-27-2020, 09:32 PM   #68
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We're do you put the grill and the lp tank and the ground cover, leveling blocks, fire pit. Just wondering?
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Old 08-30-2020, 05:32 PM   #69
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We're do you put the grill and the lp tank and the ground cover, leveling blocks, fire pit. Just wondering?


When we were modifying the Tommy one of the things we did was turn the bed sideways. This gives us a large exterior storage.
We carry the Screen room ground cover hoses and a few other items in there. In the rear trunk we carry the folding outdoor table 4 lawn chairs, gun case( for the hitch stuff). In the front trunk are power cords and levelling blocks. Click image for larger version

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Old 09-02-2020, 08:28 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
Correct, about 1/3rd of the hitch weight is transferred back to the trailer tires when you set up correctly.
Thanks Andy. I'd be interested in your sheet about setting up torsion bars with air suspension. Sent you an email. Appreciate it.
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Old 10-16-2020, 04:52 PM   #71
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In the rear trunk we carry the folding outdoor table 4 lawn chairs, gun case( for the hitch stuff). In the front trunk are power cords and levelling blocks. Attachment 377298
A gun case! I never thought of that! I've been using a low profile Sterilite underbed storage box in the back of the station wagon for years, but a gun case is a bit longer, and still big enough to hold two torsion bars and at least one sway control.

Thanks for the idea.
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Old 10-19-2020, 05:05 PM   #72
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here is the a Tesla 3 pulling an AS 27 Tommy Bahama. It goes up to 129 km/h on the highway

there drivers like it better and more stable than a std 1/2, 3/4 ton truck
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Old 10-20-2020, 04:31 PM   #73
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here is the a Tesla 3 pulling an AS 27 Tommy Bahama. It goes up to 129 km/h on the highway

there drivers like it better and more stable than a std 1/2, 3/4 ton truck
I saw this elsewhere yesterday. It was interesting seeing their reaction to driving an electric, and really interesting seeing their reaction to the stability and handling of the combination when they both test drove it. These are avowed truck guys, which is fine, but I suspect they went away with a new appreciation of a different approach.

Good to see Andy in the video, explaining their approach.
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Old 10-20-2020, 04:56 PM   #74
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Other than the poor choice of words they used to describe passenger comfort road feel and steering response (non of these attributes have anything to do with stability) we shouldn't be surprised. The Tesla and any other vehicle does not loose it's basic characteristics just because you add a trailer. I notice the truck guys didn't test it for safety in emergencies. They didn't test to be sure it didn't have the real issues with vehicle stability which is sway and oversteer. They are also the two leading vehicle related causes of towing accidents and deaths. They do the towing community a disservice by ignoring these important risks.
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Old 10-20-2020, 06:41 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post

This Tommy now has 820 pounds of hitch weight loaded for travel. I am 2460 on the front axle and 2540 on the rear. Axle capacity is 2447 Front and 2771 Rear, so well below axle capacity.
I'm not that bright, as I'm missing something in this experiment. You took a vehicle with a tow rating of absolutely nothing (#0000), fabbed a hitch for it and hooked up a +/- #7500 trailer. It has a hitch weight of #820. Our Model 3 AWD has a posted max cargo weight for this vehicle with the OEM tires of #826. So it's within spec, as long as nobody gets in to drive?

Are all these endless discussions about payload, and weight ratings and tow ratings just excessive navel gazing? If the numbers mean nothing, what are we talking about?

And in the same vain, can I hook up our 30' to our 2500 and load it up with all kinds of stuff, ignoring the #2369 payload limit?

Lastly, did you guys make up a charge extension cable? Out here, nearly every SuperCharger station in CA/NV/OR is a back in only. You'd have to unhook every time you stop to charge.

Always looking to learn.
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Old 10-20-2020, 07:07 PM   #76
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It's not too much different than "Animal Farm" or "1984" really. A little disinformation can go a long way. Just keep everyone from focusing on the real issues so we can all happily pretend the set-up is great. And look, as long as nobody directly attempts to address static and dynamic instability, nobody lies or deceives so all is good.
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Old 10-20-2020, 07:08 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Ginophiles View Post
I'm not that bright, as I'm missing something in this experiment. You took a vehicle with a tow rating of absolutely nothing (#0000), fabbed a hitch for it and hooked up a +/- #7500 trailer. It has a hitch weight of #820. Our Model 3 AWD has a posted max cargo weight for this vehicle with the OEM tires of #826. So it's within spec, as long as nobody gets in to drive?

Are all these endless discussions about payload, and weight ratings and tow ratings just excessive navel gazing? If the numbers mean nothing, what are we talking about?

And in the same vain, can I hook up our 30' to our 2500 and load it up with all kinds of stuff, ignoring the #2369 payload limit?

Lastly, did you guys make up a charge extension cable? Out here, nearly every SuperCharger station in CA/NV/OR is a back in only. You'd have to unhook every time you stop to charge.

Always looking to learn.
Tow rating of 2000 lb in Europe. 0 in the US. May be something to do with lawyers, rather than with vehicle capability as delivered by the manufacturer. And that tow rating is for the 2000 lb hitch that Tesla offers, not a WD hitch which Tesla doesn't offer.

The more relevant limits here are tire and axle loads.

We have a published total payload limit on our Model Y. And a separate limit for the frunk. And a separate limit for the rear cargo shelf (trunk floor). The payload can be impacted by something as simple as the strength of the floor where a person may put that weight.

The Superchargers we use often have an end stall that you can pull through. Not always. Accommodating larger vehicles is coming; Tesla is deploying larger Supercharger stalls in preparation for the Cybertruck.
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Old 10-20-2020, 07:09 PM   #78
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It's not too much different than "Animal Farm" or "1984" really. A little disinformation can go a long way. Just keep everyone from focusing on the real issues so we can all happily pretend the set-up is great. And look, as long as nobody directly attempts to address static and dynamic instability, nobody lies or deceives so all is good.
You're hilarious. Seriously.
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Old 10-20-2020, 07:12 PM   #79
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Old 10-21-2020, 04:37 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginophiles View Post
I'm not that bright, as I'm missing something in this experiment. You took a vehicle with a tow rating of absolutely nothing (#0000), fabbed a hitch for it and hooked up a +/- #7500 trailer. It has a hitch weight of #820. Our Model 3 AWD has a posted max cargo weight for this vehicle with the OEM tires of #826. So it's within spec, as long as nobody gets in to drive?



Are all these endless discussions about payload, and weight ratings and tow ratings just excessive navel gazing? If the numbers mean nothing, what are we talking about?



And in the same vain, can I hook up our 30' to our 2500 and load it up with all kinds of stuff, ignoring the #2369 payload limit?



Lastly, did you guys make up a charge extension cable? Out here, nearly every SuperCharger station in CA/NV/OR is a back in only. You'd have to unhook every time you stop to charge.



Always looking to learn.

Itís hard to cover 50 years of towing experience in one post. Over the last 50 years we have setup thousands of combinations. We test drive each one. We take many to the race track where we measure slalom and sudden lane change speeds. We have tested every brand of weight distribution. Our own fleet of tow vehicles tows more in the real world every year, often in winter conditions, high winds etc. than most people will tow in a lifetime. I always find it rather amusing how people proclaim themselves to be an expert about a combination that they have never driven.

Tow ratings have very little to do with towing ability. We see this all the time. A F150 can be configured to tow 14,000 pounds according to Ford? 14,000 pounds of what? Maybe a 14,000 pound cigarette boat with electric brakes on all 3 axles would be ok. A 14,000 pound tall gangly square RV be stable at all.

Take this F150 or a 250 if you prefer to the race track with a similar 27í Airstream. The Tesla with no tow rating will out handle it easily and stop in less distance. It will be stable above 90 MPH the speed HD trucks are governed at. Even more important just about anyone ca do it. To get max speed out of the 150 it gets pretty hairy. The Tesla is very controlled and easy to drive at the limits.

Payload is a relatively new number and doesnít relate to towing with a properly configured weight distribution. 1/4 - 1/3 of the hitch weight goes to the trailer wheels another 1/3 goes to the cars front suspension where a solo vehicle cannot add weight.

Some stations have drive in spots. Some new ones are on Islands so you can drive up behind them. The rest we have been able to pull in from the end. I have only charged about 20 times but so far have not needed to disconnect. To disconnect/connect to charge only takes me 5 minutes so not the end of the world if I had to.

If you would like a more detailed explanation of payload feel free to send me an email andy@canamrv.ca

These two articles also relate to this.


https://rvlifemag.com/built-to-tow-or-marketed-to-tow/


https://rvlifemag.com/towing-with-a-...ged-2-0-litre/

I hope this helps.

Andy
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