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Old 08-16-2020, 02:29 PM   #41
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I can't speak for the Tesla but my BMW i3 has very aggressive motor braking. I rarely have to use the brake pedal.
I know some folks prefer one pedal driving but I wasn't a particular fan of it in the BMW i3 we previously owned and it couldn't be disabled. My understanding is that regenerative braking can't routinely be disabled in a Tesla either, but maybe an owner can speak to that.

In our current Audi e-tron it's possible to manually turn off regenerative braking. It also has an automatic mode that uses map information and traffic conditions to enable regen while otherwise letting the car coast when the accelerator is lifted. In either automatic or manual mode it's possible to engage different levels of regen on demand using steering wheel paddles, very much like using paddle shifters to change gears. Overall, I like the way this works better than the always-on regen systems but that's just personal preference.

Back more on topic, while I'm interested in the future possibilities for using EV's as tow vehicles given the current state of play they just wouldn't work for me. Having to stop for an hour to charge every couple of hours would be intolerable, not to mention the anxiety over where you might find a charge if you decide to deviate from your planned route, or whether you are going to have to unhitch when you got there.
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Old 08-16-2020, 02:38 PM   #42
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Tesla Model Y has adjustable regenerative braking, and adjustable stop mode with regenerative braking (hold, creep, roll).
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Old 08-16-2020, 02:47 PM   #43
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The range limitations will soon fade as the battery tech gets better. Charging speeds will improve as well. It is just a matter of time before we are all using a "Mr. Fusion" personal nuclear reactor
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Old 08-16-2020, 03:02 PM   #44
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Tesla Model Y has adjustable regenerative braking, and adjustable stop mode with regenerative braking (hold, creep, roll).
Thanks for the information. Does this mean that regen is adjustable to the point that the vehicle coasts freely when the accelerator is released?

FWIW, my understanding of the principal behind the engineering choice to allow free "sailing" is related to the efficiency of the regenerative process. I've read that with EV's pretty much across the board, there is a 10-20% loss in capturing energy and another 10-20% loss in turning that energy back into acceleration; thus overall 20-40% of the energy is lost. Allowing the vehicle to coast takes full advantage of the momentum that has already been built up with no losses other than the frictional and aerodynamic ones which are present regardless.
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Old 08-16-2020, 03:26 PM   #45
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Thanks for the information. Does this mean that regen is adjustable to the point that the vehicle coasts freely when the accelerator is released?

FWIW, my understanding of the principal behind the engineering choice to allow free "sailing" is related to the efficiency of the regenerative process. I've read that with EV's pretty much across the board, there is a 10-20% loss in capturing energy and another 10-20% loss in turning that energy back into acceleration; thus overall 20-40% of the energy is lost. Allowing the vehicle to coast takes full advantage of the momentum that has already been built up with no losses other than the frictional and aerodynamic ones which are present regardless.
For the Model Y (and my understanding is, also other Tesla models, after a software update rolled out last year) regen can be standard (full regen) or low (limited regen). Low allows the car to coast on throttle lift off, mimicking the feel of an ICE vehicle with an automatic transmission. For stopping mode, hold brings the vehicle to a stop without the brake pedal. Creep keeps the motor engaged, like an automatic transmission vehicle easing forward without throttle. Coast acts like a ICE vehicle in neutral. I believe all of the above settings are to accommodate people switching from ICE vehicles.

Note also that standard Autopilot will bring the vehicle to a stop in traffic if there is a vehicle in front of you.

Standard regen will be the most efficient. It just takes acclimatization. For me, that was about 5 km of driving
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Old 08-16-2020, 04:02 PM   #46
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Thanks for the updates on the adjustable regen/brake modes. The Model X we test drove 3-4 years ago had only the original basic mode, and it was definitely hard to get used to . . . we like taking our right foot "off the gas" and flexing it around for better blood circulations etc..
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Old 08-16-2020, 07:32 PM   #47
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Thanks Ohmman. We have several customers now with Model X’s and 22’s. It is amazing how stable it is without weight distribution. We make our own weight carrying ball mount for them to minimize overhang.
Because we built our own much stronger receiver for the model 3 we are able to use weight distribution. This makes the 27 safer and more stable than the 22 without. Here is a quick video we did with a 25’ Safari.

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/videos/
Thank you for this Andy. Very interesting.

I also tow a 22’ Bambi with a Model X outfitted with a Draw-Tite hitch and WD. Seeing you test a much larger trailer with a Model 3 is encouraging news for EV towing. I for one would love to upgrade my trailer to a larger AS and still tow with the X.

What have you brought the tongue and trailer weight down to for the Model 3 to handle the 27 Tommy Bahama?
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Old 08-16-2020, 09:24 PM   #48
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The range limitations will soon fade as the battery tech gets better. Charging speeds will improve as well. It is just a matter of time before we are all using a "Mr. Fusion" personal nuclear reactor
"Soon" is in the eye of the beholder. At 65 years old, I don't think "soon" will be before I have to stop towing. Until I can tow 500 miles in about 10 to 11 hours, like I do now, it won't be "soon" enough.
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Old 08-16-2020, 10:22 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by mikeinca View Post
FWIW, my understanding of the principal behind the engineering choice to allow free "sailing" is related to the efficiency of the regenerative process. I've read that with EV's pretty much across the board, there is a 10-20% loss in capturing energy and another 10-20% loss in turning that energy back into acceleration; thus overall 20-40% of the energy is lost. Allowing the vehicle to coast takes full advantage of the momentum that has already been built up with no losses other than the frictional and aerodynamic ones which are present regardless.
Typically it takes a few days for owners to get accustomed to one pedal driving. Coasting is definitely part of the equation - the pedal just has to be depressed to the point where you're neither expending nor absorbing energy. You could do that by looking at a chart, but it's unnecessary. It becomes second nature to "feather" the pedal to slow or accelerate (or coast) as much as one desires for the current situation.

Also, sometimes coasting isn't the most efficient method. There are certainly losses with regenerative braking, but there is also air drag, which squares at the speed of the vehicle. So allowing coasting to take over may wind up getting your speed to the point where drag has increased more than the loss you'd have to accept by using regenerative braking. Mostly, though, it's just safe to slow down on steep downgrades, and why not inject that braking effort back into the battery?

There is no real need to turn off regenerative braking once one realizes they can control it entirely by pressing or releasing the pedal slightly. Most owners eventually wish they could have more regenerative braking, because they prefer not to use friction brakes at all if possible.
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Old 08-16-2020, 11:36 PM   #50
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I own a Model S, but donít use it for towing per the Owners Manual warning about towing voiding the warranty. Thatís what my Sequoia is for.

That said, Iím very impressed with the towing capacity and performance specs for the Cybertruck, and made a reservation for the dual motor version. By the time Tesla starts delivery, that will be around the time I will want to replace my current TV.
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Old 08-16-2020, 11:42 PM   #51
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Typically it takes a few days for owners to get accustomed to one pedal driving. Coasting is definitely part of the equation - the pedal just has to be depressed to the point where you're neither expending nor absorbing energy. You could do that by looking at a chart, but it's unnecessary. It becomes second nature to "feather" the pedal to slow or accelerate (or coast) as much as one desires for the current situation.

Also, sometimes coasting isn't the most efficient method. There are certainly losses with regenerative braking, but there is also air drag, which squares at the speed of the vehicle. So allowing coasting to take over may wind up getting your speed to the point where drag has increased more than the loss you'd have to accept by using regenerative braking. Mostly, though, it's just safe to slow down on steep downgrades, and why not inject that braking effort back into the battery?

There is no real need to turn off regenerative braking once one realizes they can control it entirely by pressing or releasing the pedal slightly. Most owners eventually wish they could have more regenerative braking, because they prefer not to use friction brakes at all if possible.
We owned a 2014 BMW i3 for 3 years so I became very familiar with one pedal driving. It's not that I wasn't able to find that sweet spot with the accelerator that you reference, it's just that I prefer the way our Audi e-tron handles coasting and brake regeneration. I particularly like the ability to flick the steering wheel mounted paddles to enable different levels of regeneration; as a long time sports car driver and racer it feels more interactive and somewhat like downshifting in a ICE vehicle. I also find that I don't have to recalibrate much when moving from the Audi to my truck to my Porsche the way I did with the i3.

I agree with you completely with regard to steep downgrades or similar situations. Where one would be braking to keep speed from increasing too much anyway there's no reason not to use regen to return that energy to the battery. But in everyday driving I'd rather not have the car slow radically when I take my foot off the accelerator and I don't mind using the friction brakes.

I understand your perspective on this and most EV owners might agree with it. I just prefer something different. Fortunately, it sounds like we each bought an EV that suits our desired driving style. Cheers.
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Old 08-17-2020, 05:07 PM   #52
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Did I miss is somewhere or has someone pointed out that while the regents may be great, you still need trailer braking for stability on larger trailers. That means you will lose some more energy there since it is not recovered (though I am assuming that with time people will use the trailer for some of the battery capacity and it could be rigged to regenerate with trailer braking).
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Old 08-17-2020, 05:15 PM   #53
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How close are we getting to maxing out the tongue weight capacity?
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Old 08-19-2020, 07:28 PM   #54
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Like the car solo I find I rarely use the brakes when towing. There is no stability issue. If I was on snow I might use trailer brakes but so far I have only used them for unexpected events like a light changing for example.

This Tommy now has 820 pounds of hitch weight loaded for travel. I am 2460 on the front axle and 2540 on the rear. Axle capacity is 2447 Front and 2771 Rear, so well below axle capacity.
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Old 08-20-2020, 05:30 AM   #55
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Like the car solo I find I rarely use the brakes when towing. There is no stability issue. If I was on snow I might use trailer brakes but so far I have only used them for unexpected events like a light changing for example.
Andrew,

Never driven any electric car but scanned this thread and sounds like regen is a part of driving style. Can you address how the brake light system to warn other motorists is activated when you "rarely use the brakes while towing"? Does lifting off of the go pedal trigger brake lights?

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Old 08-20-2020, 06:46 AM   #56
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Andrew,

Never driven any electric car but scanned this thread and sounds like regen is a part of driving style. Can you address how the brake light system to warn other motorists is activated when you "rarely use the brakes while towing"? Does lifting off of the go pedal trigger brake lights?

Gary
Not Andrew...but tow with a Tesla. The brake lights are activated by an accelerometer as well as the brake pedal.

If removing your foot from the accelerator results in sudden deceleration then the brake lights are activated. If removing your foot from the accelerator results in little or no deceleration then the brake lights are not activated.

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Old 08-20-2020, 06:58 AM   #57
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Barry,

Thanks, had to be ones and zeros in there somewhere turning the lights on.

Gary
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Old 08-24-2020, 03:50 PM   #58
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This Tommy now has 820 pounds of hitch weight loaded for travel. I am 2460 on the front axle and 2540 on the rear. Axle capacity is 2447 Front and 2771 Rear, so well below axle capacity.
Wow. Fascinating. So you're really going with weight on the TV's axles versus published TW (though I realize there isn't one for the # right now).

Would your approach be same on Model X, provided one has swapped the Bosal hitch for a permanent hitch with fixed receiver? Or would you look at things differently given the air suspension on the X.
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Old 08-25-2020, 02:05 PM   #59
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We have setup a few X's with 22's. We build our own ball mount that keeps the ball very close and use a friction sway control. Normally I would never do this but the X is so stable the lack of weight distribution is barely noticeable.

For a larger trailer on the X we could build the hitch similar to the Motel 3 or strengthen the Tesla Hitch, however we have not done that yet. The nice thing with the X with weight distribution is that it would handle the highest hitch weights so we could tow any trailer with it. I will likely get one but I am thinking in the next year or two the battery might get higher capacity. Currently I am not sure the larger battery is going to be much better than the 3 by the time you factor in the extra drag of the Model X.

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Old 08-25-2020, 03:18 PM   #60
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Here are a couple of pictures of how the hitch installs and sets up. We actually run the receiver through the lower trunk well so it does not affect air flow it is also very neat unhooked with the cap you hardly notice a hitch is on it.

You would never do this on a gas car because of the risk exhaust fumes, not a concern here.
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