Opinions on Gas or Diesel?

[Woolecox]

Originally Posted by Pappy3393

Did you check the payload capacity of the diesel F-250? The Diesel engine significantly lowers the payload capacity because it is much heavier.

Yes. Ran the numbers with my trusted long time dealer, who is very knowledgeable. She had access to charts that I didn’t. Her husband is one of the services mangers and he tows large trailers on the weekend to and from car shows all over the country.

Ford advertises 20,000# max tow with the 6.7 turbo diesel F-250.

We all know that that is very optimistic and impossible to confirm without having the truck on the lot to be able to check the door sticker and/or weigh the rig.

However, I believe it will be more than enough for my GT 27FB and, probably will easily handle any trailer that Airstream makes.

Cheers,
Wooly

[Mikemdd]

The question regards the payload capacity rather than the tow capacity. Tow capacity is rarely an issue but payload can be. Two very different things.

Originally Posted by Woolecox

Yes. Ran the numbers with my trusted long time dealer, who is very knowledgeable. She had access to charts that I didn’t. Her husband is one of the services mangers and he tows large trailers on the weekend to and from car shows all over the country.

Ford advertises 20,000# max tow with the 6.7 turbo diesel F-250.

We all know that that is very optimistic and impossible to confirm without having the truck on the lot to be able to check the door sticker and/or weigh the rig.

However, I believe it will be more than enough for my GT 27FB and, probably will easily handle any trailer that Airstream makes.

Cheers,
Wooly

[Woolecox]

Originally Posted by Mikemdd

The question regards the payload capacity rather than the tow capacity. Tow capacity is rarely an issue but payload can be. Two very different things.

Yes. Good to go on all accounts.

[Mollysdad]

I'd remain gas.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Escape_Plan

A seriously misinformed and hyperbolic response. The “magic cards” are as easy to get as any other consumer credit card. But if applying to a consumer card is too hard, Pilot/Flying J will take any credit/debit card at the pump.

I’ve towed with diesel (Ford/Ram) trucks exclusively since 2001. In that 20 years of towing, I’ve never waited more than 20 minutes in the commercial diesel lanes. In the commercial world, time is money and no one sits at/or blocks the pumps for hours on end. This past weekend at the Pilot near Flagstaff, AZ, I witnessed a commercial tractor blow a turbo at the pump in the lane next to me. Within 10 minutes that tractor/trailer was hooked up and towed clear of the lane. That would never happen that quick in the consumer lanes. Of course with the diesel I have the option of the commercial lanes or the consumer lanes. But I avoid the consumer lanes if at all possible since unlike the commercial lanes which are one way, folks in the consumer lanes park/fuel any which way …. there is no lane etiquette. BTW - The only place I’ve ever been “parked in” was in the consumer lanes.

Hi

Well, if I had video I could show you the event. It was not just one lane blocked. They had trucks "parked" at roughly 90% of the lanes. None of them went anywhere. Time may be money, but not early in the mooring at that station.

Bob

[JonDNC]

We use the truck lanes whenever possible and have never waited more than 10 minutes or so for the pump to open. Once had to wait about 10 more minutes after filling for the truck in front to clear. He was getting lunch from inside to eat in the truck (as were we).

[Pappy3393]

Payload is not the same as pulling capacity. I pulled a couple of door sticker payload numbers from the Ford 250 chat site for a diesel F 250 lariat no moonroof, fx4 with 20" wheels, 3.55 gears‘ payload is 2227.
The other is F250 Platinum...4x4 Short Bed...HD Tow package, 2041 lbs payload.
Now 2,000 lbs payload may sound like a lot but you subtract 1,000 lbs or more of AS tongue weight it leaves you with 1,041 lbs for the weight of your weight distribution hitch, people in the truck, gas, all your equipment, food, etc. Moving up on luxury packages makes a huge difference in payload capacity. The charts that Ford posts are for a stripped down truck with a long bed. That’s why the door sticker is so critical. Diesel does significantly reduce the payload capacity. Diesels are very heavy. It’s not just a few pounds it is several hundred pounds. It’s obviously your decision. I am just wanting to bring your attention to a critical weight factor (payload) that many people ignore and most AS & Truck sales people are oblivious to it.

[Mikemdd]

Originally Posted by Pappy3393

Payload is not the same as pulling capacity. I pulled a couple of door sticker payload numbers from the Ford 250 chat site for a diesel F 250 lariat no moonroof, fx4 with 20" wheels, 3.55 gears‘ payload is 2227.
The other is F250 Platinum...4x4 Short Bed...HD Tow package, 2041 lbs payload.
Now 2,000 lbs payload may sound like a lot but you subtract 1,000 lbs or more of AS tongue weight it leaves you with 1,041 lbs for the weight of your weight distribution hitch, people in the truck, gas, all your equipment, food, etc. Moving up on luxury packages makes a huge difference in payload capacity. The charts that Ford posts are for a stripped down truck with a long bed. That’s why the door sticker is so critical. Diesel does significantly reduce the payload capacity. Diesels are very heavy. It’s not just a few pounds it is several hundred pounds. It’s obviously your decision. I am just wanting to bring your attention to a critical weight factor (payload) that many people ignore and most AS & Truck sales people are oblivious to it.

I'm guessing the payload numbers shown are from pre 2021 models. The new trucks have increased payload considerably, which includes the max trailer towing option. The 2021 250 Platinums that are fully loaded are around 2800 lbs with the Power Stroke diesel. However, your point is well taken and is for sure a consideration.

[Mikemdd]

Originally Posted by Mikemdd

I'm guessing the payload numbers shown are from pre 2021 models. The new trucks have increased payload considerably, which includes the max trailer towing option. The 2021 250 Platinums that are fully loaded are around 2800 lbs with the Power Stroke diesel. However, your point is well taken and is for sure a consideration.

Also, just to clarify, the Power Stroke diesel reduces payload by around 800 lbs vs. big gas engines.

[Woolecox]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the information and opinions. There is a wealth of knowledge and real world experience here and I appreciate it.

I have a “yes or no” question based on what I have on order:

- Ford F-250 XLT Diesel Short Bed (40 gallon bed aux tank)
- Globetrotter 27FB (1300# payload limit)

In your opinion, will I have adequate payload and towing capacity to safely visit anyplace in America?

Yes or No?

Thanks,
Wooly

PS: I say YES

[coltnkat]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Sorry....My math muddled brain can't follow the above logic.
In ten years nobody will want a dinosaur burner.

Bob
🇺🇸

Gas will die before diesel (both the engine and the consumer application). Diesel has too many commercial applications and will continue to be stable in the market whereas gas is being phased out with electric and hybrid options for consumers.

[CRH]

Woolecox,

I say "Maybe" depending on what accessories you plan to add to the truck, the number and size of passengers, and what you load in the bed.

[1StreamDream]

solid "maybe" ... it's too hard for me to estimate the actual payload of the truck you ordered. I have seen other posts that say the F-250 diesel comes in with door stickers in the 2100lb range for payload, if that is the case, I think you will wish you had more payload margin. Especially with a 40 gal aux tank, that probably takes another 350lbs out of your payload, but only you can decide how much stuff you want to take with you.

My 7.3L gasser (2021) has 2900lbs per the door sticker, so I find it hard to believe a 6.7 PSD in the same truck will have 2800lbs ...

*edit* I have at least a partial answer to my doubt ... I failed to account for the fact that I ordered my truck with the 10000 GVWR option, so if you order an F-250 without that derate, your payload would be noticeably higher, and 2800 is a reasonable rating given that scenario

[jcl]

Originally Posted by coltnkat

Gas will die before diesel (both the engine and the consumer application). Diesel has too many commercial applications and will continue to be stable in the market whereas gas is being phased out with electric and hybrid options for consumers.

Given the greater environmental issues with diesel, the pollution issues with larger diesels used in transport, and the air quality issues in urban areas, I don't see diesel necessarily having a longer life. Both fuels will face pressure as transport fuels. That doesn't mean that one won't be able to find fuel for a gasoline or diesel vehicle, just look at kerosene. You can still buy it, even if we don't use it (much) for heating or lighting any more.

Gas and diesel will just get more expensive, and more restricted as to where they can be used, and the vehicles will get less use in applications where there aren't economically attractive alternatives.

If I was purchasing a new vehicle, I wouldn't be planning on a long life as part of my total cost of ownership calculation. That would be high risk IMO. When we wanted to buy an EV a few years back, there were not good options available for our specific requirements. We purchased an interim gasoline vehicle, one that we used for 12 months and then transferred to a family member with different use requirements.

Those working in construction equipment are seeing this shift quickly. That was a pretty strong bastion of diesel. See the photo of the new Volvo electric loader. Manufacturers are also introducing larger battery electric equipment beyond the ones shown here.

https://electrek.co/2021/09/22/volvo...llout-in-2022/

Case claims significant (up to 90%) operating cost savings with their new EV backhoe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxXZPByCUxs

[Mikemdd]

Originally Posted by 1StreamDream

solid "maybe" ... it's too hard for me to estimate the actual payload of the truck you ordered. I have seen other posts that say the F-250 diesel comes in with door stickers in the 2100lb range for payload, if that is the case, I think you will wish you had more payload margin. Especially with a 40 gal aux tank, that probably takes another 350lbs out of your payload, but only you can decide how much stuff you want to take with you.

My 7.3L gasser (2021) has 2900lbs per the door sticker, so I find it hard to believe a 6.7 PSD in the same truck will have 2800lbs ...

*edit* I have at least a partial answer to my doubt ... I failed to account for the fact that I ordered my truck with the 10000 GVWR option, so if you order an F-250 without that derate, your payload would be noticeably higher, and 2800 is a reasonable rating given that scenario

To put this to rest:

2021 F250 4X4 Crew Cab
Power Stroke Diesel engine
Platinum with all options including moon roof
10,800 GVWR (Max Tow Package)
Actual sticker on door = 2806 (see picture above)

You should have NO issue with payload and will have NO issue with towing capacity. Enjoy.

Edit: I assume you got the Max Tow Package. If not, different story.

[Mikemdd]

Originally Posted by jcl

Given the greater environmental issues with diesel, the pollution issues with larger diesels used in transport, and the air quality issues in urban areas, I don't see diesel necessarily having a longer life. Both fuels will face pressure as transport fuels. That doesn't mean that one won't be able to find fuel for a gasoline or diesel vehicle, just look at kerosene. You can still buy it, even if we don't use it (much) for heating or lighting any more.

Gas and diesel will just get more expensive, and more restricted as to where they can be used, and the vehicles will get less use in applications where there aren't economically attractive alternatives.

If I was purchasing a new vehicle, I wouldn't be planning on a long life as part of my total cost of ownership calculation. That would be high risk IMO. When we wanted to buy an EV a few years back, there were not good options available for our specific requirements. We purchased an interim gasoline vehicle, one that we used for 12 months and then transferred to a family member with different use requirements.

Those working in construction equipment are seeing this shift quickly. That was a pretty strong bastion of diesel. See the photo of the new Volvo electric loader. Manufacturers are also introducing larger battery electric equipment beyond the ones shown here.

https://electrek.co/2021/09/22/volvo...llout-in-2022/

Case claims significant (up to 90%) operating cost savings with their new EV backhoe

Electric CARS make up 2.5% marketshare in 2021. Trucks are pretty close to zero. Will that increase? For sure. However, given places like CA has huge electrical grid issues now and nothing is being done to improve that, I would not hold my breath that electric vehicles are going to explode to huge marketshares anytime soon. If you live in flyover states, good luck with conversion anytime soon. Not saying electric cars are bad, just that worrying about petrol going away soon and planning your purchase on those assumptions might not be prudent.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by Mikemdd

I would not hold my breath that electric vehicles are going to explode to huge marketshares anytime soon. If you live in flyover states, good luck with conversion anytime soon.

Yep.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Woolecox

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the information and opinions. There is a wealth of knowledge and real world experience here and I appreciate it.

I have a “yes or no” question based on what I have on order:

- Ford F-250 XLT Diesel Short Bed (40 gallon bed aux tank)
- Globetrotter 27FB (1300# payload limit)

In your opinion, will I have adequate payload and towing capacity to safely visit anyplace in America?

Yes or No?

Thanks,
Wooly

PS: I say YES

Hi

My answer was yes with a heavier trailer and a higher payload version of the F250. After a few years of this and that, we traded it for a F350 with 1400 pounds more payload.

It's never just about the trailer. You always have other stuff along. You can do fast math and come up with "it'll be fine" calculations. Take it over to the CAT scales and .... hmm .... wonder what I missed. Do this / re-pack for enough years and it really gets old.

Bob

[AgBullet]

OP, nice choice. You will love it. For me, with our 2021 F250 6.7 diesel, there are three huge advantages while pulling our FC27...torque, exhaust brakes, gas mileage. And oh by the way, I love using the truck lanes to fill up.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Mikemdd

Electric CARS make up 2.5% market share in 2021. Trucks are pretty close to zero. Will that increase? For sure. However, given places like CA has huge electrical grid issues now and nothing is being done to improve that, I would not hold my breath that electric vehicles are going to explode to huge market shares anytime soon. If you live in flyover states, good luck with conversion anytime soon. Not saying electric cars are bad, just that worrying about petrol going away soon and planning your purchase on those assumptions might not be prudent.

2.5% in the US.
3.5% in Canada last year
Nearing 5% in Canada this year to date
10% in the province I live in.
40% in Europe
85% in Norway

It is worth looking not just at the current figures, but at the trend lines.

Some places are slower to adapt, but the trend is clear. It isn't a case of if, just a case of how fast (or how slow, for some select markets)

We had no worries about availability of gasoline, it will be around for wome time, but it was clear that the future resale value for other than battery electrics was going to take a big hit. And of course the operating cost for a fossil fuel vehicle will continue to climb.

To bring it back to tow vehicles, I think the gasoline and diesel tow vehicles offered today are going to be around for some time. But I recommend considering those tow vehicles to be exclusively for towing, and parked the rest of the time. For some, that may change the calculation or plan on what to buy.