Older Diesels for a TV?

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Scott59

Gas engines work much harder when towing. My 2016 GMC 6.6l Duramax diesel sits at 1600 rpm at 65mph if I'm towing or not. The engine does not appear to work any harder pulling my 30" International than not towing, and it will go up a mountain without dropping out of gear if your cruise control is on, try that with a gasser. I have a friend who pulls a 34' Jayco with a 5.7L Toyota and says it stays in 5th gear (its a 6 speed) at 65mph on the freeway.

Don't kid yourself. A diesel works internally just as hard. It just goes about it differently in that it doesn't utilized rpm as much. It still has to breath deep, ramping up turbo pressures, with huge combustion pressures and heat. But yes, from a drivers perspective, it may not be as readily apparent. Because of that, it may be more relaxing to drive.

Originally Posted by Scott59

I won't even go into all the advantages of the 2500 truck over a 1500, like stability and braking.

Right, it has no advantage. A big disadvantage with that extra 1000-2000 lbs hanging off the nose of the chassis. It has the straight line stability of a steam locomotive, but don't kid yourself that it has the ability to juke or stop shorter than a 1/2 ton.

[Rzrbrn]

This has been a great thread. Thx for the initial question and all the responses.

Especially noted the comment abt the Mercedes sprinter issues at 100k miles. Did not know they were having problems.

[Shermy1987]

Originally Posted by pteck

Don't kid yourself. A diesel works internally just as hard. It just goes about it differently in that it doesn't utilized rpm as much. It still has to breath deep, ramping up turbo pressures, with huge combustion pressures and heat. But yes, from a drivers perspective, it may not be as readily apparent. Because of that, it may be more relaxing to drive.



Right, it has no advantage. A big disadvantage with that extra 1000-2000 lbs hanging off the nose of the chassis. It has the straight line stability of a steam locomotive, but don't kid yourself that it has the ability to juke or stop shorter than a 1/2 ton.

A Diesel is not working as hard because of the shear size. If we take the cummins as an example. The engine in a Ram is the same engine that powers the overloaded trash truck that goes by your house each week. It's the same engine that is in a front end loader. And now it's sitting in your pickup working at half its potential all day long.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Shermy1987

A Diesel is not working as hard because of the sheer size. If we take the Cummins as an example. The engine in a Ram is the same engine that powers the overloaded trash truck that goes by your house each week. It's the same engine that is in a front end loader. And now it's sitting in your pickup working at half its potential all day long.

The 6.7 is derated in heavier duty applications with heavier duty cycles. It is boosted to higher hp ratings in light duty applications such as pickups since the duty cycle is so light.

The trash hauler with a Cummins with a similar rating to the 6.7 is more likely to be an ISX12, with almost twice the displacement and an engine weight of around 2900 lbs.

It is very likely that that ISX12 engine is running on natural gas, however.

[Ladyfish]

My sister tows a 3 horse trailer with living quarters with an "old" mechanical diesel. Her GMC 3/4 ton has been well maintained and never had a major issue. She likes the simplicity of the older diesels.

We have a 2012 F250 with the 6.7 liter diesel and about 80,000 miles. We have not had any significant issues towing a 10,000 lb. 5th wheel cross country. This pulls a 1988 Airstream Excella without any difficulties. We typically get about 17 mpg while pulling the AS and have been very happy with the Ford.

Our son worked for Chrysler and we always drove Dodge trucks and Jeeps. But these days Chrysler is Fiat and the quality and service has suffered.

[Shermy1987]

Originally Posted by jcl

The 6.7 is derated in heavier duty applications with heavier duty cycles. It is boosted to higher hp ratings in light duty applications such as pickups since the duty cycle is so light.

The trash hauler with a Cummins with a similar rating to the 6.7 is more likely to be an ISX12, with almost twice the displacement and an engine weight of around 2900 lbs.

It is very likely that that ISX12 engine is running on natural gas, however.

I think we better go back to keeping posts on topic. But... Having been a lead mechanic/workshop supervisor for a Cummins dealership for 5 years, to just closing my own mechanical business. I know a thing or two about diesel engines and their application. A Diesel is (mostly) designed specifically for moving heavy objects about the world. A gas engine is designed (mostly) to get you to the supermarket and back.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Shermy1987

A Diesel is not working as hard because of the shear size. If we take the cummins as an example. The engine in a Ram is the same engine that powers the overloaded trash truck that goes by your house each week. It's the same engine that is in a front end loader. And now it's sitting in your pickup working at half its potential all day long.

Again, not true. If you service these things, you would know their compression ratios are huge, and their components way overbuilt to be able to handle the mechanical stresses that come with compression ignition. Compression ratios of 20:1 vs gassers closer to 10:1. Combustion pressures of 180 bar vs 120 bar.

You're right that the engine blocks are built well. They have to be to put up with the huge thermodynamic stresses. That's why they are 1000++ lb heavier drivetrains. With all the dynamic handling cons that come with that.

It's all the ancillary things that are needed for diesels, to help them keep their manners, that fail. From high pressure fuel systems, pumps, filters, injectors, to smog def equipment. And yeah, they have turbo issues and head gasket issues like their blown gasser brethren, as they are highly stressed engines. Self service? Are you pulling the cab off to do your own stuff in the newer ones?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Shermy1987

I think we better go back to keeping posts on topic. But... Having been a lead mechanic/workshop supervisor for a Cummins dealership for 5 years, to just closing my own mechanical business. I know a thing or two about diesel engines and their application. A Diesel is (mostly) designed specifically for moving heavy objects about the world. A gas engine is designed (mostly) to get you to the supermarket and back.

Yes, but the diesels designed and rated for moving heavy objects, generally have ratings that reflect that duty cycle. The pickup truck ratings are much higher since, to use your example, they spend a lot of their time going to the supermarket and back. That doesn't mean they can't pull an Airstream very well, they can, but the medium heavy duty truck examples are a little silly.

Check the Cummins factory ratings. I found a 9 litre engine that matched the rated hp of the 6.7 in the pickup truck, but it was not rated for road use (it was for pleasure craft). There is another 9 litre version with similar hp, the fire and emergency vehicle rating. Not designed to last. The 12 litre is needed to match the 385 hp of the pickup, considering your heavy truck example.

I worked in the diesel business as well.

[pappy19]

Go for any Ford diesel starting with 2013 up and you will be fine.

[Daquenzer]

Pulled my 28’ today with my 2017 F150 XLT 3.5 ecoboost and propride hitch. Great driving. My XLT has 1860lbs of payload. Yes I would have more with a F250 but I can’t see exchanging 22.5mpg for 14mpg on a daily basis for now.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Shermy1987

I think we better go back to keeping posts on topic. But... Having been a lead mechanic/workshop supervisor for a Cummins dealership for 5 years, to just closing my own mechanical business. I know a thing or two about diesel engines and their application. A Diesel is (mostly) designed specifically for moving heavy objects about the world. A gas engine is designed (mostly) to get you to the supermarket and back.

Oh my God lol.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by jcl

Yes, but the diesels designed and rated for moving heavy objects, generally have ratings that reflect that duty cycle. The pickup truck ratings are much higher since, to use your example, they spend a lot of their time going to the supermarket and back. That doesn't mean they can't pull an Airstream very well, they can, but the medium heavy duty truck examples are a little silly.

Check the Cummins factory ratings. I found a 9 litre engine that matched the rated hp of the 6.7 in the pickup truck, but it was not rated for road use (it was for pleasure craft). There is another 9 litre version with similar hp, the fire and emergency vehicle rating. Not designed to last. The 12 litre is needed to match the 385 hp of the pickup, considering your heavy truck example.

I worked in the diesel business as well.

Thank goodness there are some on here with actual knowledge. “Gas engines are made to get you to the supermarket...”. Some of the stuff on here is just amazing.

[r carl]

Originally Posted by CBWELL

Your gas engines are not like the old gas engines and easy to work on either. Check out the Ford Eco Boost with twin turbo's!! You will have to go to shop for any service these days. Some of us love our diesel trucks, and have driven diesels for years, and know how to maintain them. Not for everybody!! Diesel is NOT a perceived luxury!! It is very functional and efficient. Try to get the resale value out of a comparable gas truck. Good luck, as it will not happen. If properly maintaines both gas and diesel will last for years, but diesel will return more $$ to your pocket come time to sell or trade. Buy and drive what you are comfortable with. JMHO

Ever wonder why Ford doesn't put an Eco Boost in a F250?

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by Ladyfish

My sister tows a 3 horse trailer with living quarters with an "old" mechanical diesel. Her GMC 3/4 ton has been well maintained and never had a major issue. She likes the simplicity of the older diesels.

We have a 2012 F250 with the 6.7 liter diesel and about 80,000 miles. We have not had any significant issues towing a 10,000 lb. 5th wheel cross country. This pulls a 1988 Airstream Excella without any difficulties. We typically get about 17 mpg while pulling the AS and have been very happy with the Ford.

Our son worked for Chrysler and we always drove Dodge trucks and Jeeps. But these days Chrysler is Fiat and the quality and service has suffered.

Wow...I have been a ford guy forever...since 1966.....until they stuck everyone with the 6 liter diesel..I went to dodge with the cummins...10 years and never been in the shop...just oil changes..110,000 miles pullin the 13 31’ Classic..coast to coast...I traded and got a new o17 2500 ram..now with 24,000 miles and am currently in Maine...no problems with it ....

[Mount'n Man]

I've owned diesels pretty much all my driving life and dearly love them for various reasons. I recently let my cherished '00 Ford 7.3l go at 283K (it did bring $8,500, which supports the higher resale argument) and went with the '17 Ford F-150 with the 3.5 EcoBoost and 10 speed transmission. More than enough power for our 25' AS and other trailers around the farm, decent mpg (22hwy/12towing) And a luxury ride. Plus it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to fill the tank or do an oil change.

The diesel only got slightly better mileage towing (14-15mpg), and with the 8' bed and air bag shocks was a cargo hauling monster. It only got 17mpg empty and was so noisy at highway speed, you could barely carry on a conversation while driving. $100 fill-ups, 4-gallon oil changes every 4,000 miles, the monthly repairs on non-engine related items, and the thought of many hours of brain-rattling post-retirement AS travels all led to the decision to go with the new gas alternative.

When it's all said and done, it's your decision whether to go gas or diesel (although it does sound like a 3/4 ton is in your future regardless). Lots of good advice and pro-diesel experience on this thread, but in the end, I guess I'll have to get my diesel fix riding on my tractor...

[Daquenzer]

https://www.tfltruck.com/2017/10/for...-towing-truck/

Interesting perspective

[pappy19]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

Thank goodness there are some on here with actual knowledge. “Gas engines are made to get you to the supermarket...”. Some of the stuff on here is just amazing.

I have no problem with the Cummins engine. I have worked pipeline construction all over the US, and I have to say that the majority of the pipeline welders trucks are Dodge Cummins, with Ford and Chevy diesels next. But, the Dodge truck isn't all about the Cummins engine. Their front ends are weak, their frames are weak, their starters are weak and their automatic transmissions are problematic. Also, unlke the Ford and Chevy diesels, if the Cummins gets hot for a short time, it is toast, and has very little capacity for higher than normal heat. In the past 10 years, the dependability of the diesel engines from all 3, Dodge, Ford or Chevy, from an engine dependability standpoint, there is very little difference between them.

[GSansoucie]

OP here, thanks for the help. Just wanted to let everyone know we bought a 2015 Ram 2500 Big Horn w/ 5.7L Hemi. It’s the best option for us as we don’t need to tow Ohio here. There were enough points about the 6.4 diesel problems to scare more off of that option.
It turns out the original owner of the truck we are buying was a full time RVr towing a 30’ SOB with no problems. Another benefit is that the truck has never seen a winter as they were south during the snow.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by GSansoucie

OP here, thanks for the help. Just wanted to let everyone know we bought a 2015 Ram 2500 Big Horn w/ 5.7L Hemi. It’s the best option for us as we don’t need to tow Ohio here. There were enough points about the 6.4 diesel problems to scare more off of that option.
It turns out the original owner of the truck we are buying was a full time RVr towing a 30’ SOB with no problems. Another benefit is that the truck has never seen a winter as they were south during the snow.

Sounds like a good choice.

[Airtream]

Thanks for closing the loop on this thread and good luck!