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Old 01-22-2025, 12:40 PM   #1
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thousand palms , California
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NooB Question on Tow Vehicle

I know, I know - another tow vehicle question. But, I just want to be sure.


I am considering an older AS from the 70s - about 20 feet - I am liking a 2023 Tahoe 4WD with Z71 package (not even sure what's included in that).



It is a 5.0L V8 automatic. I will probably get a Hensly hitch.



We are from the west and do lots of mountain driving when we had our previous AS 15 years ago. So, we are not flatlanders.



Is this Tahoe enough truck? Assuming proper condition and maintenance of course.



What might a 20-footer weigh?


Thanks and Cheers!
Mark
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Old 01-22-2025, 01:34 PM   #2
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Take a look here and see if you can find the trailer you're looking for:

https://www.airstream.com/wp-content...ts-guide-7.pdf
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Old 01-22-2025, 01:59 PM   #3
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Welcome to AirForums! We are glad to have you with us.

We used to tow a 25FB (GVRW 7300 pounds, tongue weight about 1100 pounds) with a 2010 GMC Yukon (6.2L engine, 6 speed transmission). That worked for us, but was maxxed out for payload capacity of the Yukon.

The newer Tahoes and Yukons are a bit longer than ours was, and have a bit less payload capacity. The good thing is they have more HP & torque--the 5.3L engine is not much less than the 6.2L was in 2010. And they have a 10 speed transmission which is a big step up.

We wanted to replace our Yukon two years ago. We seriously considered a new Tahoe/Yukon but decided against it, mainly due to the payload issue. We instead got a Chevy Silverado 1500 with the 6.2L engine, 10 speed tranny, and the Max Trailing option. We really like the engine/transmission combo; it handles the mountains of Colorado very well. Both our Yukon and this truck had their "Max Trailering" options, which provide upgraded cooling, but the truck version is a bigger upgrade; we saw much higher transmission temps on the Yukon than we see on the truck.

I think a Tahoe would be a good match for a 20 foot trailer, especially an older one since those tend to be lighter. Airstream claims their current Bambi 20 foot model weighs 3900 pounds empty with a GVWR of 5000 pounds.

The choice between SUV and pickup for a small trailer is mostly about personal taste, camping style, how much of what type of stuff you bring with you (especially smelly generators, gas cans, firewood, etc.), and how you will use the vehicle when not towing. And maybe what fits in the garage--we had to remove a storage shelf from our garage when we got the Silverado, and there is only about 4 inches of room to spare.
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Old 01-22-2025, 02:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquared View Post
Welcome to AirForums! We are glad to have you with us.

We used to tow a 25FB (GVRW 7300 pounds, tongue weight about 1100 pounds) with a 2010 GMC Yukon (6.2L engine, 6 speed transmission). That worked for us, but was maxxed out for payload capacity of the Yukon.

Hi and thanks,
The particular Tahoe I'm looking at has only 6-speed trans. " 6-Speed Automatic Transmission, HMD, 6L-80."



It does have trans cooler, and trailering package. Also some off-road gear.



In our previous AS go-around, we had a 25 FC towed by a 2006 Suburban with 4-speed. There were a few times we had to let the trans cool down for 20-minutes on side of road. But overall, it worked pretty well.


I am also assuming that the Hensley Arrow will make weight management easier than our old hitch.



We have our eye on a 2010 23' FC. 4700 dry - 6000GVW.
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Old 01-22-2025, 02:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSDeneen View Post
I am considering an older AS from the 70s - about 20 feet - I am liking a 2023 Tahoe 4WD with Z71 package (not even sure what's included in that).

It is a 5.0L V8 automatic. I will probably get a Hensly hitch.

Is this Tahoe enough truck? Assuming proper condition and maintenance of course.

What might a 20-footer weigh?
The Z71 package includes off-road equipment such as skidplates. In general, a truck optimized for offroading is not ideal for towing, but the Z71 package includes monotube gas-charged shock absorbers that are comparable to Bilsteins, which are a benefit for towing. I own a car with Bilsteins - their precision and level of body control is very impressive.

That would be a 5.3L engine.

A Hensley or ProPride hitch is probably a good idea when towing one of the longer 1970s trailers. The Tahoe is an OK tow vehicle, I think, and it has a longer wheelbase than it did in years past, but it would benefit from the pivot point projecting hitch design.

It has adequate power. The real question is, will it meet your expectations? Trucks with smaller V8s are not the greatest towing performers because they are heavy and not aerodynamic. There's a compromise involved for most people who don't want or can't justify a large and expensive tow vehicle that sits most of the time. But the Tahoe will get the job done.

There are no 20 foot Airstreams from the 1970s. The shortest was the 21' Globetrotter (single axle), then the 23' Safari (tandem axle), followed by the 25' Tradewind, 27' Overlander, 29' Ambassador, and the 31' Sovereign. These all had modest tongue weights compared to contemporary Airstreams, and GVWRs were not that high either.
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Old 01-22-2025, 03:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquared View Post
Welcome to AirForums! We are glad to have you with us.

We used to tow a 25FB (GVRW 7300 pounds, tongue weight about 1100 pounds) with a 2010 GMC Yukon (6.2L engine, 6 speed transmission). That worked for us, but was maxxed out for payload capacity of the Yukon.

The newer Tahoes and Yukons are a bit longer than ours was, and have a bit less payload capacity. The good thing is they have more HP & torque--the 5.3L engine is not much less than the 6.2L was in 2010. And they have a 10 speed transmission which is a big step up.

We wanted to replace our Yukon two years ago. We seriously considered a new Tahoe/Yukon but decided against it, mainly due to the payload issue. We instead got a Chevy Silverado 1500 with the 6.2L engine, 10 speed tranny, and the Max Trailing option. We really like the engine/transmission combo; it handles the mountains of Colorado very well. Both our Yukon and this truck had their "Max Trailering" options, which provide upgraded cooling, but the truck version is a bigger upgrade; we saw much higher transmission temps on the Yukon than we see on the truck.

I think a Tahoe would be a good match for a 20 foot trailer, especially an older one since those tend to be lighter. Airstream claims their current Bambi 20 foot model weighs 3900 pounds empty with a GVWR of 5000 pounds.

The choice between SUV and pickup for a small trailer is mostly about personal taste, camping style, how much of what type of stuff you bring with you (especially smelly generators, gas cans, firewood, etc.), and how you will use the vehicle when not towing. And maybe what fits in the garage--we had to remove a storage shelf from our garage when we got the Silverado, and there is only about 4 inches of room to spare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertF View Post
The Z71 package includes off-road equipment such as skidplates. In general, a truck optimized for offroading is not ideal for towing, but the Z71 package includes monotube gas-charged shock absorbers that are comparable to Bilsteins, which are a benefit for towing. I own a car with Bilsteins - their precision and level of body control is very impressive.

That would be a 5.3L engine.

A Hensley or ProPride hitch is probably a good idea when towing one of the longer 1970s trailers. The Tahoe is an OK tow vehicle, I think, and it has a longer wheelbase than it did in years past, but it would benefit from the pivot point projecting hitch design.

It has adequate power. The real question is, will it meet your expectations? Trucks with smaller V8s are not the greatest towing performers because they are heavy and not aerodynamic. There's a compromise involved for most people who don't want or can't justify a large and expensive tow vehicle that sits most of the time. But the Tahoe will get the job done.

There are no 20 foot Airstreams from the 1970s. The shortest was the 21' Globetrotter (single axle), then the 23' Safari (tandem axle), followed by the 25' Tradewind, 27' Overlander, 29' Ambassador, and the 31' Sovereign. These all had modest tongue weights compared to contemporary Airstreams, and GVWRs were not that high either.

I favor SUV over PU. I'm good driving the Tahoe around town - no prob. I wouldn't like driving a PU around.



On the trailer -- indeed we are settling in on 23 feet - like a Safari after lookiing through a hundred ads or so!



Lots to consider here. I"m off to look at the Hensley info.
Thank you for the comments! Much appreciated.
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Old 01-22-2025, 06:13 PM   #7
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RE: NooB Question on Tow Vehicle

Greetings MSDeneen!


Welcome to the Forums!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by MSDeneen View Post
I know, I know - another tow vehicle question. But, I just want to be sure.


I am considering an older AS from the 70s - about 20 feet - I am liking a 2023 Tahoe 4WD with Z71 package (not even sure what's included in that).



It is a 5.0L V8 automatic. I will probably get a Hensly hitch.



We are from the west and do lots of mountain driving when we had our previous AS 15 years ago. So, we are not flatlanders.



Is this Tahoe enough truck? Assuming proper condition and maintenance of course.



What might a 20-footer weigh?


Thanks and Cheers!
Mark

Mark, when you are considering Airstreams from the 1970s, I will assume that you are looking at trailers that have been kept close to original as they were designed to be very light weight for their size so that they could be easily towed by the full-size family car. As an example, these are the empty/unladen weights for 1970 Airstream trailers in the smaller sizes:


  • 18 -- Foot Caravel -- 2,880 pounds EW -- 350 pounds HW
  • 21 -- Globe Trotter -- 3,330 pounds EW -- 380 pounds HW
  • 23 -- Safari Twin -- 3,500 pounds EW -- 425 pounds HW (Special/Lounge)
  • 23 -- Safari Twin -- 3,850 pounds EW -- 410 pounds HW (Special/Dinette)
  • 23 -- Safari Double -- 3,800 pounds EW -- 400 pounds HW (Deluxe)
  • 25 --Trade Wind Twin -- 4,250 pounds EW -- 445 pounds HW
  • 25 -- Trade Wind Double -- 4,290 pounds EW -- 455 pounds HW
  • 25 -- Caravanner -- 4,265 pounds EW -- 465 pounds HW
Keep in mind that if you are looking at modified rigs that it is critical to look for a scale receipt so that you know that current weight of the trailer. My suggestion would be if the trailer is much in excess of 20% heavier than the factory empty weight you need evidence that the chassis has been boxed in and upgraded for added strength and weight carrying capacity.


During this era, it was generally assumed that the weight of what would be loaded into these smaller Airstreams would amount to less than 1,250 pounds, and hitch weights would normally rise rather modestly when compared to modern Airstreams. In most cases, I would be surprised to see the loaded for travel hitch weight of one of the above near stock trailers rise to no more than 200 pounds above its empty figure.


While I haven't had experience with the recent Chevrolet Z71 equipped vehicles, I did tow with one for three years, and it provided such a rough ride to my 1964 Airstream Overlander Land Yacht International that it suffered stress cracks in the interior door skin above the entry door. After significant hitch changes, I was able to get through my last three months with that truck before it was traded after three miserable years. I purchased it new -- it was a floor model with every available option including all of the trailering package, premium leather interior, and every luxury feature yet it rode and handled like a log wagon. I owned that truck from 1995 (purchased new) to 1998 when I special ordered a GMC Suburban without any heavy duty suspension pieces with the 7400 VORTEC, and it proved to be a well mannered tow vehicle for 200,000 miles. My current tow vehicle is a 1992 Buick Roadmaster Limited Sedan with trailer tow package that I purchased from an estate, and it does a wonderful job towing my Vintage trailers.


Good luck with your investigation!!


Kevin
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Old 01-22-2025, 09:07 PM   #8
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thousand palms , California
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Thanks overland. That's a ton of useful info. My '06 Burb had air suspension when we towed a modern 25FC. Seemed fine.

Just a few moments ago the wife kind of nixed the vintage idea. She saw lots of them in ads that were too weirdly fixed up. She's now wanting something like our 2011 FC. I guess that means the budget has fine up also!

I must admit I love the idea of towing with that big wagon you have!

I'm going to roll here on tow vehicle until she settled on what trailer.

Great info!! Thanks!
Mark
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Old 01-23-2025, 08:01 AM   #9
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It is a 5.0L V8 automatic. I will probably get a Hensly hitch.

--------------------

OFF ROAD equipped vehicles are mushy suspensions usually. This does not tow well.

With that said the Z71 packages are not bad because they use an upgraded strut and have some skid plates mounted on the transmission and transfer cases. This is generally what offroad package means on a factory truck or SUV unless your talking about the Toyotas where you see TRD or the Ford Raptor. Those are TERRIBLE tow vehicles. The ford Raptor, example, has like 9000 horsepower and 9000 torque, but it has a 5K tow limit.

SUV's of the last few years are truck frames. Those tow better than the previous generation.

Its hard for us to give more than broad opinions unless you provide a specific truck with its known tow capacity and payload ratings.

Definately have your travel trailer before you buy a tow vehicle. Then don't tow at maximum capacity.

Good luck.
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Old 01-23-2025, 09:19 AM   #10
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.

Its hard for us to give more than broad opinions unless you provide a specific truck with its known tow capacity and payload ratings.

Definately have your travel trailer before you buy a tow vehicle. Then don't tow at maximum capacity.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]

Here's a vehicle i will be test driving when it arrives. I Venice the tow cap is 8200.

https://www.carmax.com/car/26687568

We are looking at a 1995 FC 25.

Cheers
Mark
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Old 01-23-2025, 10:05 AM   #11
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Short answer: Make sure your Tow Vehicle has a transmission cooler or a tow package. Will come in handy for inclines and hot weather. *From experience.
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Old 01-23-2025, 10:12 AM   #12
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Hi

*Always* work out the trailer first. After that's settled *then* start looking at tow vehicles. As you have noticed, trailer decisions can change pretty quickly .

Right now we are in a multi year "dip" in the RV market. In addition, it's winter (and snow in a lot of the country). That combination makes for a lot better prices on this and that compared to 5 years ago.

I would suggest that for every decade you go back, the number of "fun things to do" on your new to you trailer likely goes up. Yes, you can buy a compete disaster that's 2 years old. We're just talking about averages here.

As you have noticed, the older the trailer, the more likely it's been customized. If it's old enough, it may have been redone by multiple owners. Some of those changes are obvious. Others are buried away, only to be discovered a few months / years down the road.

The "how much is in the bank" part of this very much does matter. That's something only you can work out. What makes financial sense for one person may not make any sense at all for somebody else.

Fun !!!

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Old 01-23-2025, 10:54 AM   #13
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Consider diesel

I have had two gas GM p/u’s pulling a 25 ft Safari and both would jump into passing gear on nearly every hill. If you don’t want to be the last one up the hill; go diesel.
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Old 01-23-2025, 01:28 PM   #14
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Actually, things are starting to come together (we work fast).



We have settled on a 25 and we want one that is around 2006 and up. Most likely a FC, or sometimes Safari. But in that range.


My garage simply won't hold anything longer than 240" and it MUST go in the garage (HOA). So, most cushy 4-dr PU's are too long.



I have owned two Suburbans and loved them. So, I'm still leaning to the GM SUV. The Denali has the larger 6.2L, not sure if that's a significant difference or not. A
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Old 01-23-2025, 01:40 PM   #15
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Yes, always settle on a trailer first...but also realize the larger and heavier the trailer, the more tow vehicle you will need to go through the mountains safely and confidently...and that also comes with a price tag...so that might lead to more compromises on the trailer too!

I have owned my 1960 Overlander for about 40 years. Fully loaded it is about 4500 pounds. I have towed with many vehicles, but by far the tow vehicle that I enjoyed the most, and felt most confident with was totally overkill. It was a '96 3/4 ton Dodge with a Cummins diesel engine and 5 speed manual transmission. I loved every minute of towing with that truck!
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Old 01-23-2025, 03:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSDeneen View Post
Actually, things are starting to come together (we work fast).

We have settled on a 25 and we want one that is around 2006 and up. Most likely a FC, or sometimes Safari. But in that range.

My garage simply won't hold anything longer than 240" and it MUST go in the garage (HOA). So, most cushy 4-dr PU's are too long.

I have owned two Suburbans and loved them. So, I'm still leaning to the GM SUV. The Denali has the larger 6.2L, not sure if that's a significant difference or not. A

I would not pull a 25 footer in the CA mountains with most any S.U.V that would fit in your garage. But just guessing. That 6.2 is probably OK but thats going to be a long vehicle is it not ? It's the same truck frame as a full size truck.

Also don't discount vehicles that you dont think will fit. Usually theres more room if you back in, or just barely touch a back wall. You might fit a vehicle 5-8 inches longer, maybe more, than you are currently measuring for.

Dont buy the 4Door PU if theres that big of a difference. Get a supercab. However once again, I am not sure theres any difference in length because everything large SUV and passenger truck nowday is the same frame. Length increases with 6.5 bed fs 6 foot bed, some beds are longer in the 2500 series.... Maybe you are looking at the wrong trucks...

Re check that garage length, it might fit. My truck squeezed in my previous house would not quite let the washer door fully open, But it fit. Not because of any HOA's, but because thiefs take things in the driveway.
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Old 01-23-2025, 07:15 PM   #17
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We're headed out Saturday with a big pile of Benjamins to (hopefully) snag a 1995 Excella Classic 25.



From the Weight Chart I see:
5100 dry weight
6800 Max
700 Tongue


I have a 2020 Suburban LS coming in to my local Carmax. It seems to fit the bill. And, it fits in my garage.



In the 2010s we pulled our 2010 FC25 with a 2003 Suburban and it was a good ride just using a run-of-the-mill WD hitch.



I think this trailer will be lighter (not a wide body) and the 2020 Burb has more HP and better transmission.



I plan to get a Hensley Arrow this time.



BUT - don't be afraid to yell, "STOP YOU IDIOT, don't you know..."
W're trying to move fast, but I don't want to screw up either.



Thanks to all the wonderful folks here who are always eager to help with great advice.

Cheers,
Mark
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Old 01-23-2025, 09:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSDeneen View Post
We're headed out Saturday with a big pile of Benjamins to (hopefully) snag a 1995 Excella Classic 25.


From the Weight Chart I see:
5100 dry weight
6800 Max
700 Tongue

I have a 2020 Suburban LS coming in to my local Carmax. It seems to fit the bill. And, it fits in my garage.

In the 2010s we pulled our 2010 FC25 with a 2003 Suburban and it was a good ride just using a run-of-the-mill WD hitch.

I think this trailer will be lighter (not a wide body) and the 2020 Burb has more HP and better transmission.

Cheers,
Mark

Chevy supplies the Suburban with one of two engines: a standard 355-hp 5.3-liter V-8 and an optional 420-hp 6.2-liter V-8. Every model is available with either rear- or
all-wheel drive, but the smaller engine pairs with a six-speed automatic transmission.

Pay close attention to the gross trailer weight ratings of that smaller engine with 6 speed and small V8. Payload sticker will be on the door.

Good luck.
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Old 01-25-2025, 11:03 PM   #19
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Another option is a van. We have 2017 GMC Savana passenger van 2500, gas, ordered it so we got the full tow package and got to pick a color other than white or black. Full tow package. Loads of space for gear even with 1 bench seat left in. Found custom window shades for sun protection/privacy. About 10,000 less than a truck. The color? Silver. Matches perfectly. Love it.
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Old 01-26-2025, 06:54 AM   #20
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Sunday AM...

Well it's done. We have a 2011 23' Flying Cloud, and a 2019 Yukon Denali 6.2, and a lot less money than we had the day before!
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