Nissan with a Cummins?

[dkottum]

I suspect so-called payload numbers may be assigned for a lot of reasons, that don't relate directly to an Airstream hitched to a truck with the hitch weight distributed among all the axles of both.

The people who assign these numbers don't know if I'm loading 1400 lbs of gravel in the truck's bed (mostly on the rear axle), or loading 1400 lbs of Airstream and gear on the hitch and bed, then distributing the load (onto both axles minus a couple hundred lbs to the Airstream's axles). The handing and braking is poor with the gravel load, and I wonder if it overloads the rear axle, especially when driving on uneven (bumps) roadway.

I suspect most light pickup buyer's have no idea what that number in the door jamb says; they'll never haul much of anything anyway.

And perhaps these "payload" numbers assigned like highway speed limits, the powers-to-be knowing people will exceed them if it meets their purpose.

If for no other reason, I don't lose sleep over a "payload" number because it is preceded by the statement "should not exceed". Common sense can be applied.

[excellaf350]

Look I'm not saying payload and GVW numbers hold no merit and don't belong in the discussion. They are obviously there for a reason. But we all know, and have seen, numbers that can go both ways. What I am saying is that if you are an average joe out truck shopping for something to haul your camper around once a month. You should do those calculations. but crossing one truck off your list cause you will be 287 lb over on payload is probably foolish.

A commercial driver who runs 40,000 miles a year and comes up 1200 lbs over the payload should probably consider shopping elsewhere.

This new truck looks promising. Can haul a 10,000 lb travel trailer or boat with plenty of diesel grunt. Probably rides nice and looks like will be a good alternative to buying a 3/4 ton truck just to get that diesel grunt when pullin that trailer to the campground. Should you leave the kids bikes at home cause your gonna be overweight??? Again just my opinion but I'm willing to say go ahead and throw them in and don't sweat those numbers on the door sticker.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by dkottum

I suspect so-called payload numbers may be assigned for a lot of reasons, that don't relate directly to an Airstream hitched to a truck with the hitch weight distributed among all the axles of both.

The people who assign these numbers don't know if I'm loading 1400 lbs of gravel in the truck's bed (mostly on the rear axle), or loading 1400 lbs of Airstream and gear on the hitch and bed, then distributing the load (onto both axles minus a couple hundred lbs to the Airstream's axles). The handing and braking is poor with the gravel load, and I wonder if it overloads the rear axle, especially when driving on uneven (bumps) roadway.

I suspect most light pickup buyer's have no idea what that number in the door jamb says; they'll never haul much of anything anyway.

And perhaps these "payload" numbers assigned like highway speed limits, the powers-to-be knowing people will exceed them if it meets their purpose.

If for no other reason, I don't lose sleep over a "payload" number because it is preceded by the statement "should not exceed". Common sense can be applied.

Oh, it would be nice if we could all go through life justifying things to our liking, and having it be true. Of course payload is only on spec that must be adhered to...and yes, that's because there are other spec to which it needs to be balanced against...like GAWRs and GVWRs. Is is possible to exceed total payload, and still be under in GAWs and GVWs? I suppose if you removed some factory installed equipment, but I doubt anyone is willing to do that. Since payload = GVWR - curb weight, I guess you are saying it is OK to exceed GVWR and/or GAWRs in your example.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by excellaf350

Look I'm not saying payload and GVW numbers hold no merit and don't belong in the discussion. They are obviously there for a reason. But we all know, and have seen, numbers that can go both ways. What I am saying is that if you are an average joe out truck shopping for something to haul your camper around once a month. You should do those calculations. but crossing one truck off your list cause you will be 287 lb over on payload is probably foolish.

A commercial driver who runs 40,000 miles a year and comes up 1200 lbs over the payload should probably consider shopping elsewhere.

This new truck looks promising. Can haul a 10,000 lb travel trailer or boat with plenty of diesel grunt. Probably rides nice and looks like will be a good alternative to buying a 3/4 ton truck just to get that diesel grunt when pullin that trailer to the campground. Should you leave the kids bikes at home cause your gonna be overweight??? Again just my opinion but I'm willing to say go ahead and throw them in and don't sweat those numbers on the door sticker.

I will, hesitantly, acquiesce to part of your statement...with much reservation.

I'll share this with you. A couple years ago I worked with a fleet account who (with the "help" of a "professional" upfitter) acquired a fleet of emergency response vehicles. The chassis were built upon, and loaded in such a manner that the rear axle weights were well below RGAWR. The total weight was well below GVWR, but the front axle was 40 - 400 pounds over FGAWR with just a driver in the cab.

Their duty cycle involved 100% loads 100% of the miles driven and were at higher speeds during runs, over not-so-great roads.

Starting at a low of 90k and a high of about 140K, we began to see front suspension seating and mounting problems.

This is a high volume chassis, and we saw the issue nowhere else in the country with any frequency at all.

Now granted, this was a poorly designed and engineered upfit and the loads were placed without regard to any balance consideration, but it certainly illustrates how a few hundred pounds matters....over time and miles.

[excellaf350]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

I will, hesitantly, acquiesce to part of your statement...with much reservation.

I'll share this with you. A couple years ago I worked with a fleet account who (with the "help" of a "professional" upfitter) acquired a fleet of emergency response vehicles. The chassis were built upon, and loaded in such a manner that the rear axle weights were well below RGAWR. The total weight was well below GVWR, but the front axle was 40 - 400 pounds over FGAWR with just a driver in the cab.

Their duty cycle involved 100% loads 100% of the miles driven and were at higher speeds during runs, over not-so-great roads.

Starting at a low of 90k and a high of about 140K, we began to see front suspension seating and mounting problems.

This is a high volume chassis, and we saw the issue nowhere else in the country with any frequency at all.

Now granted, this was a poorly designed and engineered upfit and the loads were placed without regard to any balance consideration, but it certainly illustrates how a few hundred pounds matters....over time and miles.

Rich you have to be careful comparing commercial and personal worlds. They are different.

Im actually driving a service vehicle right now. My company has 287 vehicles. Im on a team that we put together with a fleet manager as our leader, to spec out truck properly. I can tell you first hand we don't like it when things get tight. You are correct we see a lot of extra expenses down the road.

My company had a philosophy of buy cheap and put em to work. My last truck was spec'ed out by a guy who ignored those numbers. Had a 2013 E450 cutaway with a service body and the Triton 5.4L and a 4.56 gear, GVW was 14,050. with me and all my stuff on board I was at 15,000 actual. Not only is that illegal its expensive. I put 60,000 miles on it in about 2 years. Ate up 2 sets of tires, 2 sets of front brakes, and it was in the shop countless times for engine problems. spit a spark plug out of the head at 49,000 and was out of service for 3 weeks. Drove it like a race car at 4200 rpm up ever hill and got a whopping 6.4 MPG! Truck was too light duty.

Fast forward to the trucks the new team spec'd out. 2015 F450 6.7 diesel. Aluminum service body. GVW is 16,500. actual empty weight is 10,660. Loaded I am 14,500. No break downs and I get 3 MPG better fuel economy. Im legal and I I even have room to tow and haul equipment without going over on GVW or combined!


I get what you are saying man. I really do. Im not trying to say you are crazy. The numbers all mean something. But a private guy who might overload it by a couple hundred once or twice a month during the summer months is nothing to worry about. Yeah, try slapping that truck with a service body and run it at max ratings for 5 years, day in and day out for 200,000 miles... I agree you are a fool to over look these numbers.

The truck appears to be well built and I am hopeful it will sell well. If it does then we can expect some more completion in the future. For me? Im not gonna worry about goin over that rating by a couple hundred pounds for 2500 miles a year. It will most likely do just fine. However it is just too new right now and we don't know that for sure. time will tell.

[Silverflames]

Not to sway this thread in a different direction, but is there ways of improving load capacity of a truck? For example adding load E rated tires, beefing up the suspension, getting more HP out of the engine?

[dznf0g]

Well, I don't have to be careful....the only difference between commercial and us, is the time and miles that it takes for the results of overloading to show up. The stresses on metal components are gradual and cumulative...normally, except for GROSSLY overloaded vehicles which encounter a sudden event.

If a guy overloads a bit, regularly, and trades frequently, someone else gets to wonder why his POS, brand ABC truck only lasted 150k. (or whatever the circumstances reveal).

My comments are universal and aren't really intended for the guy who is an occasional weekend warrior who is a couple of hundred pounds over for 10% of his total miles of ownership. BUT, there are many on these forums who would take this comment (which is an "inch") and take it to their interpretation (which is a "mile"). Every pound overloading takes it's toll....on a rising algorithmic curve....not even a rising linear fashion.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Silverflames

Not to sway this thread in a different direction, but is there ways of improving load capacity of a truck? For example adding load E rated tires, beefing up the suspension, getting more HP out of the engine?

No, the entire vehicle is a "system". Load limits are set for the system. What is the link in that system which limits a particular parameter? Who knows. And even if you knew, and beefed that link up.......what's the next weakest link in the system?

That's why there are more robust "systems" 1500 vs. 2500 vs. 3500........

[excellaf350]

There are lots of ways to improve your truck and capabilities. Heck the world of aftermarket car and truck parts is a several Billion dollar business. But none of it will change the rating that the OEM puts on the truck. The new Titan is a brand new truck so it will take a while for the aftermarket world to catch up. but I have no doubt there are already people hacking the computer systems and building an arsenal of parts for you to buy! Bottom line is if you need a bigger truck, just buy a bigger truck.


Rich you very well may be right. Maybe it will harm the truck going 200 lbs over once and a while. Again time will tell. I can just tell you that this new Titan seems to fill that void of 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton truck. The 3/4 ton world is getting pretty heavy duty lately. I suspect the Titan XD diesel (even with a 1400 lb payload) will town the biggest Airstream they make with mom and dad up front, and a couple kids watching movies in the back. My old 7.3 diesel does it with no problem and this Titan XD is pretty much on par with that truck... with a few slightly lower numbers on that door sticker.

[dznf0g]

Yeah, I need some more hard specs to swallow this "tweener truck" idea. What have I read....and provide more if you can. 8900 GVWR, 1500 payload? Does this truck really weigh 7400ish pounds? That doesn't make it any different than a 5400# half ton with a 1500# payload and 6900#ish GVWR. It just makes it an overweight pig, IMHPO.

What am I missing is glancing over the specs some others have provided?

[excellaf350]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Yeah, I need some more hard specs to swallow this "tweener truck" idea. What have I read....and provide more if you can. 8900 GVWR, 1500 payload? Does this truck really weigh 7400ish pounds? That doesn't make it any different than a 5400# half ton with a 1500# payload and 6900#ish GVWR. It just makes it an overweight pig, IMHPO.

What am I missing is glancing over the specs some others have provided?

Not sure honestly. I did a lot of reading about this truck. And watched a lot of videos. Sounds like actual weights are in that 7000 lb area. Also heard GVW could be 8990. I haven't been that hard on the numbers honestly.

What it brings over any other 1500 is the diesel pulling power and better mpg when pulling. Dodge aparently passed this motor up in the eco diesel for the better mpg with their 3.0. While that smaller 3.0 gets fantastic mpg it's a turd when it's comes to grunt work.

[dznf0g]

But will a gas be offered? And what does that do to the curb weight? Mileage? Power to weight ratio, etc.
This product offering is so "off"....or else I'm missing something in the formula.

[dznf0g]

If gas isn't offered, they're missing a significant portion of the market.

[excellaf350]

Here are some hard fact numbers I found

Max tow ratings:
S: 4x2 will have a max-tow rating of 12,314 pounds; 4x4,12,038 pounds
SV: 4x2, 12, 164 pounds; 4x4, 11,888 pounds
PRO-4X: 11,784 pounds (only offered in 4x4)
SL: 4x2, 11,915 pounds; 4x4, 11,638 pounds
Platinum Reserve: 4x2, 11,836, 4x4, 10,608 pounds


GVWR:
All 4x2 S, SV and SL trims: 8,800 pounds
All 4x4 S, SV and SL trims: 8,990 pounds
The PRO-4X (4x4 only): 8,990 pounds
Platinum Reserve Titan: 4x2, 8,880 pounds; 4x4, 8,950 pounds


Curb weight:
S: 4x2, 6,709 pounds; 4x4, 6,986 pounds
SV: 4x2, 6,876 pounds; 4x4, 7,152 pounds
PRO-4X: 4x4 only, 7,257 pounds
SL: 4x2, 7,126 pounds; 4x4, 7,402 pounds
Platinum Reserve: 4x2, 7,204 pounds; 4x4, 7,480 pounds


Payload:
S: 4x2, 2,091 pounds; 4x4, 2,004 pounds
SV: 4x2, 1,924 pounds; 4x4, 1,838 pounds
PRO-4X: 4x4 only, 1,733 pounds
SL: 4x2, 1,674 pounds; 4x4, 1,588 pounds
Platinum Reserve: 4x2, 1,676 pounds; 4x4, 1,470 pounds

[excellaf350]

Gas will be offered. Supposedly a redesigned 5.6L along with other body configurations in a few months. Currently the only truck for sale is crew cab config with 6.5' bed

[dznf0g]

So it is an incredibly heavy truck. Diesel should account for about 4 -500 pounds of that, but it's still really heavy.
I think I know why, and I'll bet gas will come in just north of 8600 gvwr.

[rostam]

I think the idea of an offering between 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton is a great idea. I am not sure Nissan's implementation is right though. This is a truck with 1/2 ton payload figures and 3/4 ton sticker price (and no diesel exhaust brake). I would think most people will either select a 1/2 ton or a 3/4 ton truck instead.

[excellaf350]

Originally Posted by rostam

I think the idea of an offering between 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton is a great idea. I am not sure Nissan's implementation is right though. This is a truck with 1/2 ton payload figures and 3/4 ton sticker price (and no diesel exhaust brake). I would think most people will either select a 1/2 ton or a 3/4 ton truck instead.

It's got potential. Honestly you can buy a pro-4x for $51,000. That's a pretty well equipped truck already set up for some off-road use too. You will be hard pressed to find a new 3/4 ton set up the same for less money with a diesel. A new F250 diesel will start out at around $45k. And your only getting a stripped down xl. So I think Nissan might be on the right track. I'll agree some improvements can be made its the first of its kind and I think they did pretty good. But a fully loaded platinum reserve? Yeah you can buy a fully loaded 3/4 ton for not much more. I think it's the lower end trucks that will shine in the price world.

Btw. The engine is capable of exhaust braking. The turbo is actually already proven capable. Supposedly the Aisin trans has engine braking built in. Just hold the brake for a bit and it's supposed to kick in and help. Not sure how well it works if at all. Maybe something for the future....

[switz]

I have seen pencil whipped weight increases the following model year with no change in components...

Going from bare bones to glitz costs about 500 pounds in payload on the Nissan and the Ford F150 when I was trying to configure one in 2013. Less glitz = more payload.

I drove my 2012 Ram 2500HD off the dealers lot to a fuel stop and after filling the tank, I crossed the CAT scales. I now had a real number base weight with all the factory installed options. As each accessory was added, I crossed the CAT scales with a full fuel tank. I have a spread sheet that shows what the payload penalty cost was for each accessory.

[dznf0g]

Switz, I did the same thing, but not accessory by accessory. I had all my stuff installed prior to delivery. I had manufactured curb weight then drove to scale. But you have to know what your mfr allows in curb weight as far as occupants.